Feeding Frenzy

[Guest 2smart4u]

Ahem.

http://bmccreations.com/one_nation/nation.html

Wake up. The founding fathers made some pretty strong statements against your precious faith.

From the above website (citations are all on the page--left out of this post for brevity):

John Adams

"Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1500 years."

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles."

Thomas Jefferson

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies."

"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites."

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes"

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own"

James Madison

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."

"In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people."

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

Benjamin Franklin

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

And these are the words of the guys who were INSTRUMENTAL in the founding of this country--and you think THESE guys founded a "Christian nation?" Get your head out of your ass and come join the rest of us in reality--if you have the guts, that is.

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I hate to burst your bubble, but the Loony Left bloggers (where you get all this nonsense) is all lies. It's all a game to the bloggers; see who can come up with the most outrageous crap. And of course, simple people like you believe it.

[Guest Guest]

I hate to burst your bubble, but the Loony Left bloggers (where you get all this nonsense) is all lies. It's all a game to the bloggers; see who can come up with the most outrageous crap. And of course, simple people like you believe it.

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I'm disappointed. Someone shows you real quotes from real people, and you can do is call people names and ignore the facts.

"Loony Left"

These quotes are well documented. They are found in books other than the Bible, but since you can't read, you don't know that for yourself. You have to rely on other people reading scripture to you for your knowledge.

How sad.

I pity you.

Good thing you have a God to pray to, since everyone else knows just what a buffoon you are.

[Guest Guest]

Of course not. That's not how evolution works. However, scientists have observed evolution as it occurred in some organisms.

If you really want to understand evolution, you'll have to open your mind, open some books and study it. It isn't a myth or fairy tale, so you can't just tell a simple story and hope to understand evolution, any more than you can understand nuclear physics that way. Understanding evolution requires work, just like a great many things that are true in nature. Most people don't have the time for it, but at least they could respect the brilliant scientists all over the world who have developed this field of study and applied it practically in fields like medicine. It's a very real science with real-world applications, which are advancing every year. Refusing to believe it won't make it go away, and why would you want to? You don't seem to appreciate the good it has done and is doing, most directly in biology and medicine, but also in the social sciences, where evolutionary principles are also moving the disciplines into the realm of hard science.

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You're right, Paul, but you're asking people to think, and to work at actually knowing things by learning them instead of making up stories about them. I wish you the best of luck, and I'll fight this fight with you, but it's a struggle.

But then I see that was your point. Progress always is a struggle, and this is no different.

[Guest 2smart4u]

LOL! You can't be serious!

...please don't be serious.

Hell no--the Theory of Evolution (ToE for short) is not an assumption at all. The ToE is an assumption as much as you are a member of the Church of Satan:

Not at all, and how the hell could anyone with a working brain possibly come to that conclusion?

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NO fossil evidence, NO missing link. NO proof of evolution of the EYE. When the Darwiniacs can come up with something more than "this is how it could have happened", I'll consider it.

[ElneClare]

I hate to burst your bubble, but the Loony Left bloggers (where you get all this nonsense) is all lies. It's all a game to the bloggers; see who can come up with the most outrageous crap. And of course, simple people like you believe it.

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I went and check The Electronic Text Center of the Univ. of Va. public dada base with a simple search for Thomas Jefferson and the word religion.

These are not the result of a fanstasy of some liberal blgger, but actaul copies of The Univ. of Va.'s public collection of Thomas Jefferson's public papers, 1775 - 1825J.

I'm sure with time and a few more searches I could find links to other repactal sources that go on to show now the other orgional framers of the Consititution, to back up strife's posts. I need to run to get to my appointments today or I would do the work for you.

IF you still find all of this the work of liberal bloggers, why don't you try going down to the library at Rutchers and look up some of their writings and use the brain you claim to have.

[Calybos]

NO fossil evidence,  NO missing link. NO proof of evolution of the EYE.  When the Darwiniacs can come up with something more than "this is how it could have happened", I'll consider it.

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Thankfully, we don't need to convince loons like you in the process of doing responsible and effective science. You can choose to ignore the evidence all you like; and as with fundie denial, it won't change reality one bit.

Evolution is an observed phenomenon; the theory of natural selection is the best available explanation of how it operates; and "intelligent design" simply isn't science, and has no place in public schools. (Frankly, it has no place in private schools either, but we don't have the right to intrude on the lies and fairytales that go on there.)

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it makes--guess what!--not the slightest difference. All we ask is that you get out of the way and let students learn while they still have a chance to learn REAL science, not your concoction of lies and fables.

[Guest Steve_C]

"A known plagarist" ??  You've been reading the Loony Left bloggers again.

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She got bumped from a few papers because of it... look it up goon.

And you know she's a liar.

Lies and the Lying Liars spells it out quite nicely.

Plus I'm pretty sure she's a hamaphrodite... get a look at the size of her adam's apple.

[Guest Steve_C]

NO fossil evidence,  NO missing link. NO proof of evolution of the EYE.  When the Darwiniacs can come up with something more than "this is how it could have happened", I'll consider it.

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Huh? We're here aren't we? We can see can't we?

THAT IS PROOF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Evolution

There is no missing link. There won't be any one fossil where we can go A-HA! The missing link.

We will just continue discover more fossils of the species Homo, our cousins and ancestors.

You obviously have no understanding of science. It's pointless to even TRY to educate you.

Your I.Q. must be sub 90.

[Guest Steve_C]

I went and check The Electronic Text Center of the Univ. of Va. public dada base with a simple search for Thomas Jefferson and the word religion.

These are not the result of a fanstasy of some liberal blgger, but actaul copies of The Univ. of Va.'s public collection of Thomas Jefferson's public papers, 1775 - 1825J.

I'm sure with time and a few more searches I could find links to other repactal sources that go on to show now the other orgional framers of the Consititution, to back up strife's posts.  I need to run to get to my appointments today or I would do the work for you.

IF you still find all of this the work of liberal bloggers, why don't you try going down to the library at Rutchers and look up some of their writings and use the brain you claim to have.

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Most christians believe that the founding fathers were evangelical christians.

Most were Deists or even Pantheists but a few were theists.

Yes the early settlers were looking for religious freedom, but they were Quakers and Puritans.

Not baptists or evangelicals.

It's simple 2dim and Patrat will simply not believe anything that goes against their narrow view of reality. And then view is so narrow I doubt a human hair would slip through the slit in their visor.

[Guest 2smart4u]

I went and check The Electronic Text Center of the Univ. of Va. public dada base with a simple search for Thomas Jefferson and the word religion.

These are not the result of a fanstasy of some liberal blgger, but actaul copies of The Univ. of Va.'s public collection of Thomas Jefferson's public papers, 1775 - 1825J.

I'm sure with time and a few more searches I could find links to other repactal sources that go on to show now the other orgional framers of the Consititution, to back up strife's posts.  I need to run to get to my appointments today or I would do the work for you.

IF you still find all of this the work of liberal bloggers, why don't you try going down to the library at Rutchers and look up some of their writings and use the brain you claim to have.

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THANK YOU, ElneClare, You just blew the atheists out of the water. Excerpt from "Result #1" : Thomas Jefferson; "the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercion on either, as was in his almighty power to do, but to extend by it's influence on reason alone". Clearly, Thomas Jefferson was a christian who believed in God and who recognized belief had to be by choice, not the atheist that Steve would have everyone believe. (Steve, I warned you about the Loony Left bloggers).

[Strife767]

"A known plagarist" ??  You've been reading the Loony Left bloggers again.

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http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001070.php <-- Clear examples of Coulter's plagiarism. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Strife767]

observed fact? I have never seen a monkey become a human being? Have you?

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That's not what evolution says. But of course, a straw man is a lot easier to attack than the real thing, huh? I bet you're one of those idiots who thinks evolution is a straight line with humans at one end.

[Strife767]

I hate to burst your bubble, but the Loony Left bloggers (where you get all this nonsense) is all lies. It's all a game to the bloggers; see who can come up with the most outrageous crap. And of course, simple people like you believe it.

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Haven't read any of the source material (which nearly every quote has in brackets next to it in the URL I provided), I take it?

It's funny to see someone so confident while being so exceedingly stupid.

[Guest bik49ypik@yahoo.com]

The best athletes train. So do the best chefs, the best scientists, the best everything.

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Ohh you almost hit the nail on the head on this one. The best athletes do train to achieve the desired results of their trainer. Who is Matthew's trainer. I never heard of a chef lifting pots to get stronger, Chefs cook or bake meals period. And scientists as I am proud do the following:

Initial Observation - Matthew without the knowledge of the teacher, taped the question and answer session, that your son had 36 remarks, comments or questions, on that transcript base upon some prior hearsay.

Information Gathering - Matthew continued taping his comments and brought it to the media attention.

Title the Project Religion in the classroom and you will burn in hell.

State the Purpose of the Project - This one Mr. LaClair hasn't answered. States his purpose is not for gain.

Identify Variables - Seems there are two sides to this story.

Make Hypothesis - Teacher has been teaching for 14 years and now this is brought up ? Why now? What is the desired result?

Design Experiments to Test Your Hypothesis - Take over a town discussion board and see what support you can have.

Do the Experiments and Record Data - Mr LaClair has spoken in the town meeting how many posts have been recorded. Keeps stirring the issue by bringing up the Muslim religion in this. Not sure if the LaClairs have a predijest toward this religion or not? That was not mentioned on any tape from the teacher so I do not know why he continues to bring it up?

Record Your Observations - They are all recorded here.

Summarize Results - Since I cannot find out what the purpose of the LaClair family is, the desired result cannot be achieved.

Draw Conclusions - There is some hatred or resentment going on in Kearny because of this and the conclusion has yet to be resolved.

[Strife767]

NO fossil evidence,

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA202.html

NO missing link.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC200.html

NO proof of evolution of the EYE.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB301.html

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB921_1.html

When the Darwiniacs can come up with something more than "this is how it could have happened", I'll consider it.

Unlike idiots like you, scientists will not assume past what evidence they have.

Your argument from incredulity fails. Even if there was no theory of evolution and NO ONE had ANY scientific explanation for where we came from, that would do NOTHING to prove "God did it." God (especially not _your_ particular god) is not the default except to the ignorant, so whine about all of these perceived "holes" in evolution all you want.

First of all, the "problems" you're mentioning aren't even problems, but just your ignorance of the actual evidence. But if and when you or anyone else DOES find a hole that can't be explained, guess what? It doesn't prove creation. At all. Tough shit, fundies: one does not prove one is right by disproving another. There is no dichotomy. If hypothetically evolution were completely overturned, you fundies would have absolutely no way to prove that a creator god is any more likely than that the universe as we know it is an alien's garden.

If you want rational people to believe in creation, PROVE CREATION. Pony up the evidence. Put up or shut up. Etc.

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[Guest Guest]

THANK YOU, ElneClare,  You just blew the atheists out of the water.  Excerpt from "Result #1" : Thomas Jefferson;  "the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercion on either, as was in his almighty power to do, but to extend by it's influence on reason alone".  Clearly, Thomas Jefferson was a christian who believed in God and who recognized belief had to be by choice, not the atheist that Steve would have everyone believe.  (Steve, I warned you about the Loony Left bloggers).

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Um, I may not be as smart as you, but I don't see how "Clearly" Thomas jefferson was a Christian from that post?

I thought to be a Christian you had to believe in Jesus Christ, right?

No where in your quote of jefferson does he mention Jesus, or Christ. He talks about a "holy author" being "lord" and "almighty".

To me reading that, he could just as easily be Jewish.

I find it amazing that Christians can read Jesus into everything they want to.

[Guest 2smart4u]

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001070.php <-- Clear examples of Coulter's plagiarism. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

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Just another Loony Left blogger (did you see the one about Bush being a martian) ??

[Guest 2smart4u]

Thankfully, we don't need to convince loons like you in the process of doing responsible and effective science. You can choose to ignore the evidence all you like; and as with fundie denial, it won't change reality one bit.

Evolution is an observed phenomenon; the theory of natural selection is the best available explanation of how it operates; and "intelligent design" simply isn't science, and has no place in public schools. (Frankly, it has no place in private schools either, but we don't have the right to intrude on the lies and fairytales that go on there.)

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it makes--guess what!--not the slightest difference. All we ask is that you get out of the way and let students learn while they still have a chance to learn REAL science, not your concoction of lies and fables.

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"Intelligent design has no place in public schools" ?? You sound like a charter member of the Daffy Darwiniac Club. You're a typical radical left Kool-aid drinker, because you think a certain way, no one else should hear an opposing viewpoint ?? You'd probably want to burn any books you didn't agree with too. You would have made a loyal Nazi.

[ElneClare]

THANK YOU, ElneClare,  You just blew the atheists out of the water.  Excerpt from "Result #1" : Thomas Jefferson;  "the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercion on either, as was in his almighty power to do, but to extend by it's influence on reason alone".  Clearly, Thomas Jefferson was a christian who believed in God and who recognized belief had to be by choice, not the atheist that Steve would have everyone believe.  (Steve, I warned you about the Loony Left bloggers).

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Sorry I didn't have time earlier to make clear what I was trying to get you too see. Then I can't make you take the scales off your eyes, so you suddenly can see how blind to truth and facts you seem to fail to see no matter how simple the launguage used. Maybe we need to start drawing pictures for you.

See I'm one of those Liberal Atheists, you seem to quick to attack, without actually taking the time to read the matterial you so like to mis-quote.

I just didn't have time this morning to write a long thought out post this morning and I never claim to be a good writer. In fact I'm rarely able to get my ideas across without taking a lot of time and effort of having someone help, Proofreading my poor grammar and spelling, due to being dyslexic and having a language processessing disorder, adds to one of the reasons it takes something I feel very important about, to get me to post.

There are far better posters here who can hopefully get you to understand what the difference between the many different beliefs that went into the forming of our goverment. I did have a longer post with links written, but in trying to cut down on the clutter of google pages I had loaded, it was lost and my browser doesn't yet come with a autosave for posting on forums. Thankfully I been able to used the spell checker to at least keep the worst of my errors from ever making it on the web.

Thankfully Google does save my past searches, so I do have some more reading material if you want it. I am looking for a simple primer on logic still though.

[Strife767]

Just another Loony Left blogger  (did you see the one about Bush being a martian) ??

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It doesn't matter whose blog it is. Those are direct quotes, buddy. But it doesn't surprise me you can do nothing but squirm when the evidence is presented before you.

Once more: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001070.php

[Strife767]

"Intelligent design has no place in public schools" ??

Nope--not unless there is an elective class on mythology or something. But one thing is for sure--it is NOT scientific. At all. It has no place in any science classroom.

You sound like a charter member of the Daffy Darwiniac Club. You're a typical radical left Kool-aid drinker, because you think a certain way, no one else should hear an opposing viewpoint ??

Every scientist and skeptic will be happy to hear when you have a scientific theory that opposes the theory of evolution, along with evidence (you wouldn't want to get our hopes up for nothing, would you?). Intelligent Design (just call it creationism--who do you think you're fooling?), however, falls far short of the mark. It's just not science, and only science can refute science.

You'd probably want to burn any books you didn't agree with too.

It is perfectly reasonable not to allow pretend science in a science classroom. Let us know when you've got the real thing.

You would have made a loyal Nazi.

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It's Godwin tiime~

[Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo]

NO fossil evidence,  NO missing link. NO proof of evolution of the EYE.  When the Darwiniacs can come up with something more than "this is how it could have happened", I'll consider it.

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I find it ironic that you are upset at those who support evolution when they use the statement "this is how it could have happened". , yet at the same time continue to beat others over the head with "the Bible". Can you supply even one shred of evidence about anything in the bible? How do you know that evolution, as it is currently understood , was god's plan all along? The truth is you don't. None of us do. That is the only fact I think we can agree on.

While it's true that no one, not you, me nor anyone else on this little blue marble really "knows" for sure, I can only imagine that you will never except that.

[Calybos]

"Intelligent design has no place in public schools" ??  You sound like a charter member of the Daffy Darwiniac Club. You're a typical radical left Kool-aid drinker, because you think a certain way, no one else should hear an opposing viewpoint ?? You'd probably want to burn any books you didn't agree with too. You would have made a loyal Nazi.

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No, 2dumb, I'm suggesting that science classes focus on SCIENCE. Which intelligent design is not.

[Guest Lazarus]

Intelligent design has a place in Catholic Schools. It does NOT have a place in public schools. It's easy to demonize "Loony Left Kool-Aid drinking Darwiniacs." I think if anyone would have made a loyal Nazi, it would be you, especially with that mindset.

[Guest 2smart4u]

No, 2dumb, I'm suggesting that science classes focus on SCIENCE. Which intelligent design is not.

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Only in your tiny brain.