ElneClare

While between finding out why I was tire and in pain all the time and getting disability, my ex was given the money we had put in his retirement ( Thrift Savings Plan) of which %50 was to go to me by federal and state law. Unable to work, I spent 6 months living off my share of the retirement fund, so my dis and I could have a roof over our heads and food on the table. Thankfully the sliding scale health clinic felt that since it was money I receive due to my divorce, it wasn't income and only charge me for tests. Today, I don't dare marry anyone, who can't afford to cover all of my medical expenses. If they are cover by medical insurance, I would have to go without much of the care I now get, due to the fact that Maryland hasn't cut out aptient coverage for mental illness to the point that I can't see a doctor once a month and get treated for my depression. I have better chance at winning the Lottery then being able to get off disability and become self supportive again. I see that things here haven't change much, by the way. Enjoy flaming my mistakes in grammar and spelling. I may even come back to read them something in the next month, if I find myself bored again.

Why thank-you, I been wanting a new cordless drill and set of miniature tools, for the Winter Solstice How to you like the new set of cookware? If folks insist on preaching at me, I walk away. The thing that upsets me is they think it is there job to teach my children religion and I have to come to the door and tell them that I send my kids to Sunday School where they are taught comparative religions.

Kettle met Black. The rest of my response, was written first this morning, before I had to leave for the day and then gone back to later. I am a visual learner, so ramble a lot on ideas without reaching my point, so expect I confuse most readers. Maybe if I stuck to drawing picture or try poetry, would work , but I actually enjoy the confusion created, in trying to read my writings. links are given for some things, as visual aides, for those that need them. some added thoughts to what I first wrote are in italics. Problem with reading Bryan's posts, is that he selectively decides what parts in that of other posters responses, he feels best helps his clause and ignores everything else. He can't be pin down to deal with the whole post, but must cut it into bits and pieces. Then he goes on the attack of each part of the post, that suits his need to be right. That would work, if we all speak in mathematical terms only, but we are using the English language, not math (I thought of trying to read some Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead and analyzing Bryan's posts, but don't have the time or interest. Might make a great paper on logic, if I was still in college. As logic, goes, all Bryan seems to want to do is confuse and I can't quite figure out if such logical analyst would prove him right or wrong without some study. The wonder of English is that it is so imprecise in what each word can mean. So historians will tell students, that one must look at the whole content of a person's writing to try and understand what they are saying. One doesn't study Van Gogh by just paying attention to one small star in Starry Night. Even making a study of all his artwork and writings, plus the comments made by those who knew him, wouldn't be enough to have a 'True' understanding of what drove him to paint Starry Night. Now writing later in the day, as my ride came an interrupted my thoughts on this and I just dame inside to find page still up. Thing is most people over the age of 20, who have a decent education know, which painting I'm talking about, by just hearing the words Starry Night, though the full title is "Starry Night Over the Rhone." I can bring it up in a general conversation and don't have to go into depth over each detail. Such generalization doesn't work, if I am writing a paper for a college class, but boards such as Kearny on the Web, are not a assignment, but here for conversations on what people think. Mistakes are common and expected by smart readers and so often forgiven. We also expect a few trolls to come along and make stupid remarks, that only show how silly people are at times. So when many of the original posts were started, a reasonable person, may have expected disagreement on idea's, but not on the meaning of words, that Bryan seems to get into frequently. One can't win against his logic, as he challenges every meaning of a word, in the context you may have used it in. Somehow the idea's are lost in the battle of word definitions. So if anyone even got this far and understood what I wrote, I'll be surpise, but remember, I'm only writing because I can't seem to stay away. Unlike 2dim4us, I passed the fifth grade and realize how much there still is for me to learn.

So far all I can boil down from Bryan's posts, is that he feels that 'Man', 'Humans' or 'Human Beings' are materialistic and need a 'Deity' to keep them from doing harm to other 'Men', 'Humans' or 'Human Beings.' Therefore all laws must be based on there being some Power or Gods, that people throughout history have base whatever laws they have made on. In such a world all government comes from this "Power" or "God(s)" and it's leaders rule by Divine Right. The Framers of the United States of America's Constitution, saw how such a system easily is Abused and so tried to create a system that is base on "Natural Laws" and not made the claim, that the government's laws come from a Higher Power. That any of the writers of the Constitution, may have been Deist or Theist, doesn't matter in fact they were trying to avoid the problems they saw in other forms of government in Europe, which the rules based their right to Power on Divine Rights. I remember, this being taught to me, first in elementary school and reinforce to me by my mother, while she lived. She focus most of her, college study on Constitutional History and spent years working as an volunteer in the League of Women Voters. Mom could go on for hours about the subject. One fact she always made was that under our system of government, Americans are to bow down to "No One". Every four years she watch the opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games to make sure our national flag was not dipped before foreign heads of state. Which brings us to the Point Paul been trying to get Bryan to understand. One can have a system of government that does not need a 'God" to justified it's laws, but can instead ask that it's citizens try to treat each other with respect and over come ones self interest, for the greater good of "Man Kind." Paul's Universal Ethic" is based on the idea, that one can look at what human around the world value as Ethical and not always need some Higher Power to justified them. Such a world where all live by these Universal Values, sadly doesn't exist and probably never will. We as humans always are pulled between acting for our own self interest and helping others. Government is a social contract. Citizens agree to live by the government's laws, in exchange for the services they want the government to give.

Scientists turn me into a Newt. Well I got better.

We can only continue to bring to light such violations of the U.S Constitution, as Matthew Le Clair did. And Hopefully the judges in our court system will continue to add to the understanding of the First Amendment and the Establishment Cause to protect the Separation of Church and State. While some may claim that the majority wants America to be a Christian Nation, I for one will fight for our Right of Religious Freedom, by making sure the Government does not endorse one Faith over any Others even those that have No Beliefs. Yes that a lot of words Capitalized, but it is as close as I'll get to shouting on the internet. Not upholding the Constitution, as the Law of the United States of America is the worst wrong we could give our children.

FTFY Fixed That For You Bryan I only read your posts now, for how you make me laugh.

Bryan I have taken the time to answer you, but I don't expect it will help talk the scales off you spin on wither Mr P was preaching in class or not. I put in bold the uses of the word preach that cover were a teacher can not talk about their Faith or Religion in a public classroom. Notice that both defininions 3 in the American Heritage Dict. and 2 from Dictionary.com, both start with the words "To advocate". Mr P words his statements in a way that makes it clear that he feel his religion is the Truth and non-believer will go to Hell. 2. To give religious or moral instruction, especially in a tedious manner. [url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/preach]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/preach[/url] Mr P. also goes on in the Oct 10 tape, to claim that he has made the safety of his students his priority. Seems to me that in his view that would include "Saving" them from their sinful ways and accepting Jesus as their Savior. While this is acceptable in a church or street corner, Constitutional Law has clearly stated over the years that it is not allow in a public classroom setting. I don't plan to respond to any of your responds to this post. I learn long ago that it is useless to try to argue with people who try to use logic to cover the fact that their position is weak. So I will refrain from getting in to o verbal war of words with you over the meaning of a word, as you seem to like to use again an again. PS. I hope the misspelling of the word Dictionary was a typo on your part. While Google would like to correct spelling inside quotes I will not, as there are several spell checkers that work with browsers available online for free. My spelling is so bad that I spell check every post I make now online.

In Maryland several schools, have been force to provide bottle water for the children to drink, because the lead levels in the water were high. Could this be the case, at Garfield? If it isn't then, I agree that it is a waste of funds. While should the staff get bottle water, while the children use water fountains Having bottle water in the school's office, does seem to be the norm at most of the Baltimore City schools, I been in over the years my kids were in school. I dislike the practice, since at the same time there was no toilet paper, or paper towels in the bath rooms. As a volunteer at the school, I had to watch as kids asked the teacher for some toilet paper, when they asked to use the bathrooms. I also learn to keep some tissue in my purse, in case I had to use the bathrooms while at the school.

My my, you're sounding like a broken record today. I notice how you used only partial quotes and left out the parts that show how Bebe is discredited and made to put disclaimer on his official Lehigh Univ Bio page. Guess you got nothing better to do then use potty humor to try to get, grown ups to come down to your level. My grandson at 4 1/2 knows better then to try to insult his betters that in such a matter as you keep doing time and time again.

Doesn't take long to look at the faculty of Lehigh Univ. to see that Behe is a member of it. I remember how must of a fuss was made during the Dover School Board case, that Lehigh maded him add this disclaimer to this Bio on their official web site. I put part of the text in Bold, so to show how well his ideas are accepted by the rest of the faculty there.

Bryan, how can you claim to have an answer to questions that physicist are still puzzling over to try to find a rational theory to explain quantum physics? Most physicist will amitt they don't understand the work being done in Particle Physics and Quantum Theory. I once had the chance to talk to a NASA scientist at a World SF Convention Party about the subject and he was amazed that I showed so much understanding that few in his field had. Only answer to which I can suggest is that as a visual learner, I know I'm able to picture ideas that are hard to put in words. I unfortantly didn't have a chance to finish the conversation, as I had to leave suddenly having found out my mom died during the night. The best ideas to explain how in quantum mechanics a particle can suddenly appear out of nowhere is the multi-universe or dimensions. In such a partical can suddenly disappear from one dimension or universe and suddenly appear in another. Why I have no real understanding of the math behind the work being done at this level, I know from my reading, that the US is currenltly working on building a super computer using quantum theory. Try reading A Shortcut Through Time: The Path to the Quantum Computer by Greoge Johnson. The science behind it is sound, since it's been proved in a lab using a modifed FMRI machine. I must thank you though for making me look up the book on amazon, for now I have several more books I look forward to reading on the subject. KOTW Note: A link to the book is available above in the Announcement Section.

If they did implemented such a policy that prohibited a students right to record a teacher in class, it would place them in direct violation of the ADA. Students with learning disabilities, often need to be able to make recording of their classes, when they can not take notes, while trying to keep up with the teacher's lecture. In fact the school must make available a tape recorder, if it is decided that a student needs one in their IEP. They may want to ask the Board of Ed. in Baltimore MD what it is like to have a court overseeing every thing that has to be done for them to meet Federal mandated laws. I spent most of the ARD meeting for my daughters signing papers, just to prove that the school staff fulfilled the court orders.

Do you realize that you write on about the 6th grade level ?? Until you can develop your own writing skills, you should not criticise any school system but your own. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did you see my postmy post were I said something about being dyslexic and having a language processing disorder? If it wasn't for the fact that I was able to follow along mass each Sunday, with my mom's missal, I have a feeling I wouldn't have learn how to read until an adult. Instead I was reading above grade level by the age of 6. No one actually knew I could even read back then, but by the time I was in 6th grade, I was reading in top 100 percent on national; tests. Now, when a child's test scores show as much as an 4 grade difference, they get help. No one even knew what language processing disorder was back until the mid 90's when researchers looked at were able to look at FMRI's for learning disabilities. I also might suggest you try improving your reading skills before the next time you post.

I had to go back and dig up one google link, lost in an earlier post I lost to the OP. Argumentum ad Hominen I use this site so often it's funny I never took the time to bookmark, it since I had to update my files last year. *Stands for Orginal Poster in the Thread, since he certiainly doesn't think we actually believe his screen name is true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Some stupid statements just say more about the lack of understanding of anything different then what is thought to be basic education in the U.S.A. Thankfully there are parents that actually think it is important for their children to learn how to think, in this country. IT something I learn long ago, most of our education system has focus on creating good little worker bees and not worry about the thinking and logic, needed to keep our Freedoms, from becoming just history parroted for how makes us look to the masses. I need sleep, before I start looking like I didn't have parents who cared enough to make sure I learn more then I was taught in school. The typo's are beginning to make sense to me.

Sorry I didn't have time earlier to make clear what I was trying to get you too see. Then I can't make you take the scales off your eyes, so you suddenly can see how blind to truth and facts you seem to fail to see no matter how simple the launguage used. Maybe we need to start drawing pictures for you. See I'm one of those Liberal Atheists, you seem to quick to attack, without actually taking the time to read the matterial you so like to mis-quote. I just didn't have time this morning to write a long thought out post this morning and I never claim to be a good writer. In fact I'm rarely able to get my ideas across without taking a lot of time and effort of having someone help, Proofreading my poor grammar and spelling, due to being dyslexic and having a language processessing disorder, adds to one of the reasons it takes something I feel very important about, to get me to post. There are far better posters here who can hopefully get you to understand what the difference between the many different beliefs that went into the forming of our goverment. I did have a longer post with links written, but in trying to cut down on the clutter of google pages I had loaded, it was lost and my browser doesn't yet come with a autosave for posting on forums. Thankfully I been able to used the spell checker to at least keep the worst of my errors from ever making it on the web. Thankfully Google does save my past searches, so I do have some more reading material if you want it. I am looking for a simple primer on logic still though.

I went and check The Electronic Text Center of the Univ. of Va. public dada base with a simple search for Thomas Jefferson and the word religion. These are not the result of a fanstasy of some liberal blgger, but actaul copies of The Univ. of Va.'s public collection of Thomas Jefferson's public papers, 1775 - 1825J. I'm sure with time and a few more searches I could find links to other repactal sources that go on to show now the other orgional framers of the Consititution, to back up strife's posts. I need to run to get to my appointments today or I would do the work for you. IF you still find all of this the work of liberal bloggers, why don't you try going down to the library at Rutchers and look up some of their writings and use the brain you claim to have.

Since 1988, When I first hear of a group of people that live with the idea of I've tried to live by these ideas. I don't need a higher power to explain why I choose to try to live a life base on Ethical principles that are share by people of many different faiths.

Why don't you just try taking the scales off your eyes? Sorry folks, I just couldnt resist adding a little NT humor on the subject

My reaction to all I have read on these boards in the many threads related to the events brought on by one student willing to address what they saw as a problem, brings up many different thoughts for me. Here I see the reaction those who think of themselves in the majority, over the defense of those Rights written into the U.S. Constitution. Because so much of this brings back memories of the awful time I and my children faced back in 1998, one of my children was suspended for casting a spell. I can not be silent about what is happening to the LaClaire's. When my ex didn't contact me and set up a meeting with the school, all of us had to deal with the negative publicity cause by his actions of going to the newspaper instead of contacting me and meeting with the school to straiten out what actually happen over a simple lack of information on the School's part. We can joke about what happen now, but at the time it was for us a living nightmare and once started all we could do is try to lessen the damage it had on each of my daughters. I know that Matthew and his Parents will look back on all of this, proud of the fact that Matthew was willing to take a stand and that they tried to work through the proper chancels before feeling the need to go to the media. They are far braver then I was, to face the media attention created by this storm. That someone raised to think for oneself would take their side against Mr. Paskiewicz seems to upset more of his defenders, then those who defend the Separation of Church and State are over their Right to Believe in God. Time after time it is made clear that one has a right to belief anything one wants, but one does not have a right to use a government position, to try to preach their beliefs on others. Because they felt that having in the U.S.A. Freedom of Religion, our founding fathers carefully worded the Constitution to keep the government from endorsing any religion over another. What gets me is the constancy of illogical posts made for Free Speech. In defending Mr. Paskiewicz right to say anything at all in his classroom, they forget that while we all have a right to voice our beliefs, the courts have place limits on where speaking out is not allow. The classic example is yelling "Fire!" in a theater. They can't see how talking about one beliefs in the class room by an teacher, could have a negative effect on students who need to attend the class to fulfil legal requirements for a High School Diploma. No matter how many holes, one finds in their arguments, they keep coming back and use the same Logical Fallacies, time after time. Some how I have a feeling many of these posters would tell a victim of Bullying on the playground, to "Be a Man" and "Learn to live with it." Never realizing the long term effects to the victim, that later in life may affect their mental health and adding to the cost of medical care in this country. Some of the worst posts I read are listed under Guest and neither side can take the high ground when it comes to the attacks made by anonymous posts. Why I can understand not wanting to take the time to fill in the name or sign in every time one posts, one can also expect to have others discount one's views for doing so. Other posters only seem to be here to flame others and instantly drop down to the level of adolescent boys on gaming boards. I almost expect to see them type in "lewt" speech each time they post. When such a poster takes a least some responsibility to give a screen name, one can simply ignore most of their posts.

I'm not at all surprised by the reaction of Matt's classmates. Back in 1998, my daughter Jamie, had the same reaction, when her Other parent Unit (as she calls her father.) went to the Baltimore Sun, when she was suspended for being a Witch". Jamie had just come back from that years Y.E.S. conference that weekend, to learn that another student had accused her of casting a hex on her. When the Vice Principal asked if Jamie was a Witch, Jamie said yes as she had recently with her father started to follow Wicca. I spent months afterwards, dealing with the school to try and deal with the constant harassment Jamie faced each day. By April the school even ofter to have a School Police Officer follow Jamie in the Halls. Jamie found the stress of going to school too much and dropped out of High School. She is now has her own business. She is in tutoring, for help with the essay portion of the G.E.D, which she would have passed last time, but for the fact of her being dyslexic. What happen back in 1998, just made her a stronger person, who will speak her mind when she sees the Rights of others being abused. I'm happy to say that my oldest daughter takes my two grand children to the B.E.S Sunday School now and passing on the values she learned from the Society.