KHS Teacher Controversy

[Guest Reality]

Yes it the right, but it's wrong, I stand for evrything this country is about, you must be one of those Canada people, who instead of protecting and serving our country you decided it was "Your Right " not to be an American. The " Pledge "

as you call it, is an oath, and it is every Americans duty to stand when taking an oath of allegiance.       

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are SOOOOOO wrong. The fact you dont see how wrong is both the most funny and most disturbing thing. The specific act or declaring someone who disagrees with you as the enemy (in this case Canada in your twisted little mind) is exactly why we have free speech. You have not taken Thomas Paine's (one of our founding fathers) quotes to heart, "I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". How more un-American can you be than to disagree with that? How can I be un-American to ask for, even demand the right to get an education unencumbered by bronze age crap? To even challange people in authority to justify or even defend their wrong-headed ideals? Without that we would not be a country!! We would be a provence in the British Emprire. I dont know about you, buy that is not where I want to be.

I started reading the responses to my statement, with a smile on my face growing more and more with each posting, until about the 3rd page, and then, oh my.... people trying to justify their poorly thought out world view. Once again, equally humorous and pathetic. Humorous because these people are unable to see the fantastically obvious flaws in their logic, pathetic because their f**king vote affects my daily life!!!!

We can no longer allow tacet acceptance of ridiculous ideas about reality, even though it is "politically correct" This country must politely, but firming let delusional (ie, religious) people know that their beliefs are fine for them, but let the rest of us deal with reality.

Thank you

[Guest Steven (Melbourne, Australia)]

I think that the teacher could have been a little more tactful in his statements but they were completely legal. what better place to discuss religion then in a HISTORY class, because as anyone with half a brain can see history is filled with religious conflicts and decisions based on religion.

The kid watever the heck his name was, and btw he is a disgrace to that name, should be punished instead. If hes as right as he thinks he is, then why is at least half the town against him? Suspension, expulsion, i dont care, but something must be done. This whole family sounds a bit shady to me. They should just keep their noses out of things. Theyre from some cult or another right? so of course theyre gonna jump on everyone who tells them the truth, that they will go to HELL if they dont leave the cult.

POWER TO THE TEACHER WHO STOOD UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT AND HOLY!!!!!!!!!!!

DOWN WITH THE FAMILY WHO GOT HIM IN TROUBLE FOR SPREADING GOD'S MESSAGE!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Comments such as the above eminate from the sort of religious fundamentalism that unfortunately the USA is becoming infamous for. This sort of rabid religious belief thankfully does not exist (as yet) in Australia. I thought your founding fathers were explicitly for the separation of church and state? Good on you Matthew.

[Guest Guest]

I am saddened to see that Matthew LaClair has been victimized for his courageous and principled stance. He is a smart boy who obviously is able to think for himself and tell right from wrong.

There is no excuse when a teacher imposes an irrational, dogmatic notion on a class of impressionable and vulnerable young people. It is an abuse of his authority, and of the trust that has been vested in him to instruct his pupils in the science and history  accepted in rational society. The use of primitive, indeed medieval scare tactics to browbeat youths into intellectual submission is mental rape.

It is bad enough that in this country millions of children are being subjected to religious indoctrination in their homes. They should not run that risk in a public school in one of the ostensibly more enlightened regions of the country. Let's be crystal clear about this: the religious indoctrination of young people is as immoral as child molestation. Perhaps more immoral, since it inculcates a disturbed world view which precious few are able to escape later in life, and which contaminates one generation after another.

Let's not take for granted the freedom of mind and spirit which comes with liberation from religious paranoia. It has to be defended, as we can clearly see in this world torn by the madness of religious wars. And this madness begins with kind, well intentioned people like David Paszkiewicz. Thank you, Matthew, for your integrity, may it open people's eyes.

Andy Foldes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here, here. Thank you Andy,

and thank you Matthew, as I had failed to do that previously

[Guest B]

It's really sad...this 16 year old practically spits on our "Pledge of Allegiance" while many of our fathers were at war at his age...my 87yr old father is still haunted by what he faced while at war-kill or be killed-so he had no choice but to kill --then he took that young mans wallet out and saw pictures of that 17 year old's family and he was devastated.My dad had to live with that for the past 70 yrs and still breaks up when he speaks of it. Kids today, my 16 year old included, and many adults, I think...don't realize what our fathers and their family, went through for this country.so we could be free...but not free to turn our backs on it....Matt LaClair is free today because of our fathers..and he is free to leave this country if he does not agree with what we stand for!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If this kid loses his right to regect the Pledge, then everything our parents and grandparents fought for would have been in vain. The USA is the greatest country in the world (and the most stable) because of this right to challenge the government and its policies.

[Guest logical_is_in_short_supply]

Simple.

No religion in school.

Church. School. Two different places.

Don't be ignorant and so self-serving that logic is the shadow and not the image.

You're the same people that vote for George Bush and believe all his BS too.

PS, for the record, how many Iraqi's were on those planes!

[Guest RAja]

This town should spend their tax money on preparing their chidren to advance in their reincarnation. Otherwise they could all end up as goats and squirrels in the next life.

[Guest Guest]

I remember reading "Enemy of the People" by Ibsen. It takes a lot of courage to stand alone against the community. Seems like a courageous kid to me.

[Guest Guest]

What if I told you I belonged to a religion where I drink the blood of my god, I eat his flesh, and I believe that the dead are all going to rise from the earth and hang out pretty soon? How different is Christianity from even the most bizarre African tribal religion? NOT VERY!

[Guest imperial beach mother]

Matthew is incredibly brave and wise. I hope his he and father go forward with their lawsuit. I find it deeply frightening and sad that so many people have apparently turned against him and do not understand that this issue goes well beyond this individual case.

My son had a similar experience in junior college. It was very disturbing. There is supposed to be separation of church and state, not to mention that proselytizing is NOT teaching history, necessary for preparation for citizenship and college.

If the class had been entitled "Christian History" there would have been, at least, a curricula & the student and school district could make a choice. When there is GRADING involved, which often is subjective, there is a further abuse of power possible.

[Guest Guest]

Somehow I think if Mr. P's beliefs were in line with Paul LaClairs, regardless of what law he broke, we would not be discussing this at all.

As for the seperation of church and state.  It was never the intention of the founding fathers to remove religion from school.  This is a relatively modern idea.  The intention was to allow all citizens to practice their respective religions without fear of persecution.  That is why there are still numerous references to God in our government, our currency, out pledge, and the fact that public servants take their oath of office by swearing on a Bible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was also never the intention of the founding fathers to abolish slavery, since they all owned slaves. So you want to go get yourself a few good slaves?

Fortunately (not for you, but for the minorities whoes rights you're so ready to trample upon) we have a Constitution in this country to stop people like you from owning slaves or preaching in public classrooms.

[Guest Guest]

Like most of the world, I can't say much for definite, because I wasn't sitting there in those history classes. So all comments are contingent. That said:

- If Mr Paszkiewicz uses history classes to expound Christian opinions, he's wrong to do so. Similarly, he'd be wrong to say 'Death to the enemies of Allah', 'Take care not to anger Zeus', 'Anyone who doesn't vote Democrat is unworthy of life', 'You should recognise no cheese but stilton' or 'Kneel before Zod'. None of this is teaching *about* anything: religion, history, religious history or anything else. It's forcing an opinion, and that's bullying, not teaching.

- So the US is 'One Nation Under God', not 'One Nation Under Allah, Zeus, Democrats, Stilton or Zod'. Hmm. In what sense is it 'One Nation Under God'? In the sense that God was added to the pledge of allegiance during the Communism paranoia of the 50's? The country certainly wasn't founded that way. It was religiously non-aligned from its inception. What does 'separation of church and state' *mean* if not separation of church and state?

- I've no idea to what extent Matthew might have prompted any of Mr Paszkiewicz's remarks. But, for him to have taken that recorder into class, he must have found in his first lessons that there was a reason to do so. For him to try to prompt such responses, he must have had grounds to expect inappropriate behaviour. And for the recordings to have had the effects they've had, Mr Paszkiewicz has surely made statements that have no place in a history lesson. Quoting instances of him making perfectly reasonable comments at other times does not negate this.

- No one has the right to threaten Matthew's life. Mr Paszkiewicz has the right to his religious beliefs, but not the right to teach them as facts of life (which they demonstrably are not). Matthew has the right to bring such bogus teaching to light. Death threats and outright abuse are bang out of order. Perhaps those in Kearny who have abused or ostracized Matthew as a result of this episode would like to reflect for a moment on the impression of Christianity they are giving to the rest of the world. You don't come out of this sort of behaviour as an especially loveable bunch. And if your faith is so fragile that it can't even respect the educational laws of your own nation ('Under God'), then it's a pretty sorry sort of faith.

- On the other hand, why this desire to sue Mr Paszkiewicz? How can that be a good idea? Why is everyone so keen to sue everyone else all the time? In my country, I find that teachers are now afraid to assist injured children because they risk being sued for so much as touching them. I would urge Mr LaClair to examine his motives. If he wants Mr Paszkiewicz to sort his teaching from his preaching, there is no need for a law suit. Or, if he wants to S**K every last dollar he can out of the situation: by all means, go ahead and sue. Doing so reflects on him no better than abuse reflects on his son's detractors. (If he wants someone to sue, try the people behind the death threats. They're asking for it.)

- Lastly. Maybe Mathew hasn't gone about this in the very best way and maybe he's the sort of guy who's disposed to make this kind of argument. None of that has any bearing on the matter of whether there is actually something to argue *about* - and it sounds rather as if there is. Attacking Matthew for being 'just a 16 year old kid' is ridiculous. Who else but 16 year old kids attend Mr Paszkiewicz's history lessons? You'll be waiting a long time for a 55 year old judge to complain about the inappropriate remarks he's just had from Mr Paszkiewicz at high school. Matthew has succeeded in bringing this matter to light, he's found a way of producing evidence to back up his claims (hands up anyone who can do the same for Mr Paszkiewicz's alleged religious claims, by the way) and he's taken it to the relevant authorities. Whatever else he's been, he's been resourceful, law-abiding and non-abusive. Many of his detractors look pretty shoddy by comparison.

Like it or not, the media coverage has brought this story before the eyes of the world (which is how I get to shoot my opinions off from England). The people of Kearny need to be careful not give the impression of regressing into a medieval lynch mob. From out here, Matthew appears to have behaved quite responsibly and to be in need of support. Those who attack him ought to think twice about their motives before they start hurling stones. (I have a feeling that even Jesus might have agreed with that sentiment.)

[Guest Robyn Macdonnell]

If you are from Kearny then by now you have heard a story that has been blown WAY OUT OF PROPORTION.

A student of KHS, one Matthew LaClair has gone to the newspaper stating that a teacher has been forcing his religious views in is history class.

Now I am all for having freedom of speech, but I also believe every subject has a place and time for discussion; and religion in a history class is not that place.

HOWEVER!!!! This 16 year old CHILD, is nothing more than an attention seeking, immature person, who is also been known to "previously garnered attention for protesting Bush administration activities by refusing to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance" (the lippar blog) I will include this website at the end of my rant!

This kid thinks he is so self rightcious and claims he “was requesting an apology and correction of false and anti-scientific statements" (the lippard blog).

If you listen to the audio (which I will also supply the site to) you can clearly hear that Laclair PROVOKED the conversation, and you can hear that the teacher had responded QUITE APPROPRIATELY:

One example being:

Matthew: isn't the whole point of public schools is so that you can separate personal beliefs from teachers and administrators from non religious teachings during school, like school prayer and all that.

teacher: the purpose of public school is to provide free education for people that couldn't afford education. That’s the purpose of public school

Matthew: what would decide what religion should be taught in school, what would decide that?

teacher: no it's not about teaching, my point is it's not about teaching religion, these issues all come up in time, ( tape fades out) things get legislated and we talk in class

the public school shouldn't teach a religion but the scriptures aren't religion they are a foundation of the worlds religion, the world main religion any way.

religion is a set way of doing things

In the conversation above, taken my Matthew Laclair himself, i see no wrong doing by this teacher, i do however see constant and what seems to be "rehearsed" provoking of the topic.

I hope he is reading this right now, because I just have one question for him: What on earth was the need to go to the newspaper? Laclair stated that he had a meeting with the principle, teacher, and the head of the social studies department and at first they did not seem to believe him but then he pulled out the cd's.....which in itself violated this teachers right to privacy.

So again, my question, after laclair proved himself with the cd's why did he not wait for administrative action to take place? There was no need to go to the newspaper, and I think in doing so, this Matthew laclair just proves that he is a 16 year old high school student, and therefore has ALOT to learn before he goes off starting religious wars, and pledge of allegiance protest in the United States of America, a country that has always, and especially since 9/11 shown great pride in our ONE NATION UNDER GOD!!!!

ps: a little side note for everyone reading this who disagrees: stating your views on religion and "forcing your beliefs on someone" is two COMPLELTY DIFFERENT THINGS.

so I would like to say to everyone who agrees or disagrees, we are all here in this nation, in this community together, and my religion is Roman Catholic, so when I say GOD BLESS YOU, I’m not forcing my views, I’m using my faith to wish you health and happiness

GOD BLESS you all

PPS: if this offends anyone then tough, because I AM offended that a wonderful teacher is being persecuted by an unknowledgeable juvenile for merely stating what he believes in. Also that this kid is living in MY COUTNRY where my friends and family have fought to keep our freedom and he turns his back on our president and our flag.

lippard blog: http://lippard.blogspot.com/2006/11/public...-class-you.html

Audio:

http://www.nj.com/cgi-bin/prxy/xmedia/nph-.../classaudio.mp3

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest Guest]

1 Corinthians 1:18-19 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

[Guest Guest]

1 Corinthians 1:18-19  "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.  For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

2 Kings 2:23-25

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.

Tenez, sucker.

[Guest Guest]

If its a history class, why did Matt LaClair ASK him about Religion? It was a trap, plain and simple. Matt asked the teacher a question about religion--and before the teacher answered he asked the class if they minded  he'' went in this direction'' to which there was a chorus of "no's"so he continued.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do think the kid baited the teacher. However, the teacher should have CLEARLY known what is and what is not appropriate to talk about in a public school. Ultimately the teacher has only himself to blame for these issues.

[Guest Guest]

It was also never the intention of the founding fathers to abolish slavery, since they all owned slaves. So you want to go get yourself a few good slaves?

Fortunately (not for you, but for the minorities whoes rights you're so ready to trample upon) we have a Constitution in this country to stop people like you from owning slaves or preaching in public classrooms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please read The Constitution before responding.

[Guest Guest]

What if I told you I belonged to a religion where I drink the blood of my god, I eat his flesh, and I believe that the dead are all going to rise from the earth and hang out pretty soon?  How different is Christianity from even the most bizarre African tribal religion?  NOT VERY!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Will start by noting, I am neither American nor remotely suggesting that the teacher was in the right (I have listened to the recorded class conversations)

But the posts on this site reveal a tenuous bias from both sides, with the NYT article (which incidentally led me here), clearly bolstering the number of recent Christian bashers that have swooped here to make comments.

Rather than help this case [of separation of Church and State], the latest posters have fallen into strident and unapologetic deriding of other people, their beliefs systems and convictions.

I do not see how a reference to the fact that there is no difference between Christianity and even the most bizarre African tribal religion, helps Matthew and Paul. The least this unfortunate reference would have done is to further alienate others by generating more bitterness and eliciting outrage from the real Christians (not the pretenders who use the Christian nomenclature when it is convenient and deny the lifestyle at every other turn).

I think the above post is the height of recklessness, and the result of a deeply prejudiced mind. Has this poster being to Africa? Does he even know what it is to be a REAL Christian?

The above comment raises fundamental questions about the genuiness of all of Matthew and Pauls' supporters [read defenders of the constitution], and what their real intentions here are.

Paul, do go to the Law courts if you feel so strongly about this issue, and remain convinced that the measures taken so far to stop this teacher from proselytizing in his class is unsatisfactory. Do however note that the longer this takes, the more polarizing it us turning out to be - the latest set of postings are guaranteeing that. I do hope this is not the intention

[Guest humanist]

Should religious people be allowed to vote or hold public office? We don't allow 2 year old children to do these things so why make an exception for people of the same intellectual level?

[Guest tuco]

For your info, he was teaching history. If you listened to the recording, which was on the internet yesterday, you will see and HEAR this little twit set the man up. How would YOU like to wake up in the morning and see your face on the front page of a local newspaper, on every tv station and radio station. What speaks volume is the students of KHS are outraged at this flagrant violation of not only this teacher's rights but every student in that classroom's right to speak their mind without the threat of being tape recorded. Every student in that classroom who contributed to this debate is now on the internet for the world to hear.At the end of the recording, you can hear "the little twit" sayin "Yeees"!  The only thing he has accomplished is alienating the few friends that he has, and publically embarrassing a Kearny family, a well respected teacher and coach, for WHAT? I'll tell you what, a minute of fame on televison.  Shame on 1010 Wins, the Jersey Journal and every media who are trying to make news, not report it. If you watched the news, the other students are jeering him for the jerk that he is. And remember, this is the same kid that refuses to stand for the flag salute when kids almost his age are dying for his rights. By the way, to his parents "your kid needs a bath & hair wash.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You ask for WHAT??? So that we don't live in a country run by religous fundamentalists. Like Iran, Saudia Arabia, and soon Iraq. This kid did exactly the right thing. He is helping you more than you know. Besides do you really believe there were dinosaurs on the Ark? Unbelievable.

[Guest Guest]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are ignorant, gullible, and dangerous. You are blinded by liars who sell you a set of beliefs and ideals that are killing people on a massive scale every day. Also it is not YOUR country. It is OUR country. Just because you BELIEVE with no proof doesn't mean those of us who support your RIGHT to believe have to believe what you do. Unfortunately you are wrong. No matter how much you wrap yourself in the flag and call the other side godless or unpatriotic... You are wrong. So is this teacher.

[Guest Rob, UK]

You Americans, you've got this wonderful constitution, I'm jealous. And it seems to me that you just want to throw it away.

[Guest Neil Parry]

All religions without exception should be removed from the curriculum of all schools, public or otherwise. Indoctrination of children with supernatural claptrap is nothing short of child abuse.

[Guest Guest]

I do think the kid baited the teacher.  However, the teacher should have CLEARLY known what is and what is not appropriate to talk about in a public school.  Ultimately the teacher has only himself to blame for these issues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point. A grown man whining about how a 16-year old kid "tricked him" doesn't say much for his judgment and ability to teach.

[Guest Guest]

I hope the teacher wins.

This student needs to learn to be more tolerant of other's beliefs.

If it is his teacher's belief that Jesus was the Son of God and came on behalf of mankind to atone for their sins and that everyone should know that they have been forgiven because of what Christ did, then I do not blame him for sharing his faith with people he meets.

It's his belief that he should do so.

That being said, the student suing the teacher for talking about something that was not in line with his own beliefs attacks the teacher's beliefs.

If Matthew can't handle someone else having beliefs other than his, and has to take the issue to court, then he needs some help.  Instead of spending all of his time talking to daddy's lawyer, this kid should be talking to daddy's therapist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's okay to share his beliefs, BUT THAT IS NOT ALLOWED IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM!

[Guest Guest]

This is hilarious. Great post!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it is hillarious too. In fact, that's exactly where Matthew and Paul live. That should explain Paul's actions! They are from Kearny where people are ignorant....just like them!