KHS Teacher Controversy

[Guest Skepticus]

I found this article in an upstate Ny paper where the  writer Carl Strock was making fun of Christians and as all media does ,using his paper to make HIS point and promte HIS views. Although I do not live in New Jersey I had to take the time to commend the many citizens of Kearny for standing behind the teacher . This liberally raised child is pushing things as far as he can go and needs to be put in his place. His parents  should be ashamed of him, but than as you always see it,  the apple does not roll far from the tree. We are at War and I know of many communities that were hard hit by the casualities of 9-11 in that area. To have a child refuse to stand up for the pledge of allegiance, would be unheard of years ago. You might even hear the word Treason, a word seldom used today.Christmas IS the birth of Christ ...thus the words  CHRIST mas...I am sure any additonal words the teacher spoke was to this little snot nose who probably egged him on. We can't sit back and let these type of people ruin our country. Good for you Mr. Paszkiewicz!!!! Stand your ground. Many of the silent majority are behind you. The media and liberal idiots are trying to keep what is right silenced.This is the first time I have written a letter but it won't be my last.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Val. Congratulations on your new found litterary puruits. Now you understand what all that alphabet stuff on Sesamee Street is for hu?

Here we have another fine example of Kearny Klux Klan, lynch mob mentality. Without one word of aknowledgement of the illegal actions of the teacher, an obviously deluded fundementalist zealot, launches blindly into a charachter assasination of the boy who brought those illeagal actions to light. If Paszkiewicz had nothing to answer for, then Matthew would have had nothing to expose. So let's just talk about the real crime here Val.

Before you lynch Matthew for performing a community service you need to establish some reasoning behind your counter attack. Obviously, given your attitude, you believe Paszkiewicz has done no wrong. Do you understand why your constitution includes sepperation of church and state? Do you dissagree? If so why? Do you understand why Mr. Paszkiewicz has been accused of prostelysing his religoius views? Do you agree that his actions were a transgression? if not why?

Before we begin picking on Matthew, You might like to explain why you believe he is "pushing things as far as he can go", and of course, why shouldn't he? And then, please explain why you feel he needs to be "put in his place" Your message above is riddled with emotive assumptions and little substance. Matthew is bringing an important debate to light. It isn't assumed by law or common ethics, that religious veiws should have a priveledged opportunity to be marketed in a forum of impressionable minds. If you dissagre with that, perhaps you could explain why? It aught to be self-evident that indoctrinating children with religion is not the job of the public school system. Likewise with political values.

A comparison has been made a dozen or more times on these pages, to illustrate the predgudice of dogmatic christians supporting Mr. Paszkiewicz and villifying Matthew: What if a teacher were prostelysing another religion such as Islam or Buddhism? Would your lynch mob be more intrested in the offender than the informer then? I strongly dislike mindless repetion, but I have repeated this challenge yet again, as the response from the Pro-Paszkiewicz camp has been ominous by it's absence.

So why don't you Kearny Klux Klans' people, come out of the shadows and put your cards on the table? The world is waiting with baited breath to understand your valid justifications if there are any. Val, since you declare with determination to post yet again perhaps you could use that opportunity to voice something other than ugly self-riteous rhetoric, and move this debate foward on behalf of the Pro-Paszkiewicz camp.

Until then, Paszkiewicz is the one who has something to answer for not Matthew.

Regards Skepticus.

[Guest TheHeathenAngel]

Premeditated entrapment!!!

How about the administration taking action against this traitor, who should be dropped in the center of Iraq, so he don't have to salute our flag, but help burn it with people like himself!!!!!

He should be suspended for having a recording device in the classroom.

There is nothing to legally prevent him from taking a recording device into the classroom. In fact, some kids are encouraged to do so. It helps with note taking and other such assists when it comes to learning.

I can, however understand your aversion to anything that may assist in the education process. You relish in your ignorance and expect that others should do the same. Sorry to disappoint.

Yes it the right, but it's wrong, I stand for evrything[sic] this country is about, you must be one of those Canada people, who instead of protecting and serving our country you decided it was "Your Right " not to be an American. The " Pledge "

as you call it, is an oath, and it is every Americans duty to stand when taking an oath of allegiance.:angry::angry:

So the pledge should be compulsory? If it is going to be compulsory, can we at least take it back to the original way it was written? Without mention of a deity? Or.. are you one of those that likes to pretend that your sky-daddy is the only one in existence, and should be feared?

I'm just asking.

Back in my day someone would have a foot up this young gentlemans ass.

Probably a parent.

Not today.

So Sad.

Riiiiiiiiiight. Because child abuse is such a wonderful thing. How WILL we ever survive without it? Oh dear, oh dear. I say we need to beat children more frequently. That will certainly solve all our problems. </sarcasm>

I'll take the go-alongs any time over the sneaks like your son.

Well, you take the go-alongs.. they are also referred to as SHEEP.. and sheep, more oft than not find themselves in the slaughterhouse. I'll take this young man with his courage to stand up for what is right, even at the expense of pissing off a few fundie-nutcases. You keep your go-alongs to yourself, and we'll get along just fine.

:blink: dang now we know the truth about this fool paul! talk about agenda! paul you are a member of the NJ BAR right? well you put your hand on the bible to join that means you told a BIG LIE TO THE BAR! I HOPE SOMEONE TURNS YOU IN! YOU HAVE A TRUST OF THE LAW TO KEEP " A LAW WITH A BASE OF JUDAO[sic] CHRIST/GOD BACKROUND[sic]! I HOPE SOMEONE DOES "PRAY FOR YOU " YOU NEED IT!!!!!!!OH PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM ANY KIDS IN KEARNY THEY DO NOT NEED YOUR PROBLEMS!!!

Because he is an Atheist, he is a bad person? Fascinating logic. Did you pull it out of a cracker-jack box?

Paul has broken no laws by placing his hand on a fictitious book and promising to do his job.

This law you speak of has MANY bases.. Judeo-Christian is not really one of them. Oh, sure.. there are a few ideas littered here and there.. but a base? Not so much.

I love how you say that you hope SOMEONE prays for Paul and his family. Are you too busy to do it yourself? Or are you just that hypocritical?

Not that Paul or his family really need someone to talk to an imaginary friend on their behalf, I just find it amusing.

Why should Paul have to stay away from the children in Kearny? Just what problems do you think that he will bring them?

Perhaps you should go read your buybull a little closer.. I'm sure there is something in there about that hypocritical and judgmental character that you are showing. Something about how you should refrain from doing it. I'm sure I read that in there.

[Guest TheHeathenAngel]

Somehow I think if Mr. P's beliefs were in line with Paul LaClairs, regardless of what law he broke, we would not be discussing this at all.

Of course, you don't know this.. you just ASSume it. Nice to know.

As for the seperation of church and state. It was never the intention of the founding fathers to remove religion from school.

As a matter of fact, that was exactly the intent.

This is a relatively modern idea. The intention was to allow all citizens to practice their respective religions without fear of persecution.

Or their LACK of religious dogma. You seem to leave that out. I wonder why.

That is why there are still numerous references to God in our government,

We're working on that. There needs to be an overhaul, actually. There should be NO MENTION of any deity at all in our government affairs. Both religion and government do a fine job of screwing things up on their own.. there's no reason to mix them.

our currency,

And it should be removed from the currency. It has no place there. Which is why I mark it out on every bill I receive and pass.

out pledge,

The word "god" was added to the pledge AFTER it was penned. In the 50s, to be exact. It was added out of hatred and fear of a different ideology. Perhaps if Mr. P had been teaching history instead of preaching xstainity, you may have learned that.

and the fact that public servants take their oath of office by swearing on a Bible.

Which only proves that this country has some twisted and antiquated ideas that need to be looked at and changed.

I have no doubt!!! Paul is just mad because Mr. P mentioned God....God really bothers some people...I wonder why!

Well, let me put your mind to rest, you will need to wonder no more.

The concept of "god" bothers people because it is fiction. It is fiction that many take for fact and use to justify their hatred, bigotry, fear and murderous nature. The Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, Joan of Arc and yes, September 11. All "faith based initiatives". All brought about by a belief in a fictitious deity.

Now you know.

[Guest TheHeathenAngel]

I found this article in an upstate Ny paper where the writer Carl Strock was making fun of Christians and as all media does ,using his paper to make HIS point and promte[sic] HIS views. Although I do not live in New Jersey I had to take the time to commend the many citizens of Kearny for standing behind the teacher .

So you condone, not only breaking the law, but a community supporting the actions of a law breaker? Very revealing.

This liberally raised child

You hurl the epithet "Liberal" as if it is a bad thing. Would you care to elucidate on why you feel that way? Are you aware of the definition of the word? Or are you just parroting the things that you have heard the likes of Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Coulter spew?

is pushing things as far as he can go and needs to be put in his place.

Put in his place? Pushing things? He pointed out a crime and stood up for his own actions. Contrary to this pseudo-teacher lying about his offenses. Tell me why it is that you feel the one who committed the crime is innocent, while the one that exposed it is guilty?

His parents should be ashamed of him,

His parents should be quite proud of him.

You, on the other hand should be ashamed of yourself for supporting a criminal. Praising someone for breaking the law, and then lying about it. And condemning the one who had the back bone to expose him. Shouldn't you be contacting Dr. Kevorkian by now?

but than as you always see it,

You meant "then", didn't you?

the apple does not roll far from the tree.

And in your case, that is terrifying. If you have not procreated as of yet, do us all a favor and don't. If you have already done this, please, take your children to the nearest DCS and explain to them that you are unfit and unable to care for them and raise them properly. If you raise them to conform to such idiotic ideas, you should not be allowed to do so. Children should be raised to think for themselves and to stand up for what is right, point out what is wrong, defend those who cannot or will not defend themselves. You would make a rotten parent.

We are at War

Ohhhhhhhh it is the old "we are at war" defense. No.. sorry. It doesn't fly here. We are only at war because a fundie nutjob decided that the little brown people in Iraq had too much brown oil, and he didn't have enough. That his chosen deity had a bigger penis than their chosen deity and they should forget about their deity, tiny penis and all and worship his.

and I know of many communities that were hard hit by the casualities[sic] of 9-11 in that area.

And this means.. what?

To have a child refuse to stand up for the pledge of allegiance, would be unheard of years ago.

Well, thankfully, this isn't "years ago". We have progressed and evolved. Compulsory allegiance is not allegiance. It is slavery, brainwashing and mind control.

You might even hear the word Treason, a word seldom used today.

A word used all the time today. Especially by loons such as I mentioned before; O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter, Hanity. However, this is not a treasonous act to refuse to say the PoA. It is exercising one's rights as an American Citizen to say, "I do not agree with this idea, I will not support it."

[Guest TheHeathenAngel]

Christmas IS the birth of Christ

In one religion. However, those who choose to throw off the shackles of such an oppressive ideology as religion should not have to be bombarded for choosing to say "Happy Holidays", "Season's Greetings" or whatever other nicety they decide to go with. Just as you feel you have the write to say, "Merry Christmas".

Now.. what this has to do with the discussion at hand, I have no idea. We are talking about a young man who exposed a crime.

...thus the words CHRIST mas...I am sure any additonal[sic] words the teacher spoke was to this little snot nose who probably egged him on.

He didn't "egg him on". He asked a question, the topic had already strayed from US History and fallen off the map into the idiocy of religious discussion.

We can't sit back and let these type of people ruin our country.

"These type of people"? Excuse me? Would you care to elaborate? I take offense to being labeled as a "those people".. especially when it is from someone as hypocritical and holier-than-thou as yourself.

Are you saying that we cannot allow people with integrity and grit to continue? You prefer those that would sit back on their haunches and allow a crime to be committed? Like the other "snot noses" in the class?

Good for you Mr. Paszkiewicz!!!!

So you support the breaking of laws? How very interesting.

Stand your ground.

So this teacher, by breaking the law is "standing his ground", while the young man in question, who pointed out the crime is not allowed to do that? You are really twisted.

Many of the silent majority are behind you.

Have you taken a poll? Do you know this to be true?

The media and liberal idiots are trying to keep what is right silenced.

Who says that you get to decide what is right? The Constitution already does that, and your "hero-teacher/preacher" was in violation of that.

This is the first time I have written a letter but it won't be my last.

Oh, joy.. I tremble at the thought that you will fill the Internet(s) with more of your drivel. Oh.. no wait. I was just rolling my eyes. As you were. Please, don't waste the bandwidth.

[Guest LadyGuest from Ohio]

I have read all the posts for the last several weeks and it is so painfully clear that the religious folks' comments are either plainly foolish or else they are so sadly deluded by their faith that the fail to see REALITY! 

Yes, it is more than painfully clear, as is the appalling ignorance of our own Constitution. I suppose that's what happens when you use the Bible as your history book.

And c'mon, are you townspeople going to actually address the issues raised by this teacher's actions, or are you going to continue rambling for another 30 pages about irrelevant personal opinions and delusional religious beliefs?

[Guest TheHeathenAngel]

Thank you, Admin person for cleaning up that post. I guess I will have to watch the length.. perhaps address fewer posts per one of mine.

[Guest Christopher]

2. Matthew did complain to the principal, and I wrote four letters through the entire chain of command in the Kearny school district. The matter did not get into the press until a month later, when the district's attorney told me that what goes on in my son's classroom (by way of corrective action) is not my concern. I beg to differ.

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Let me get this straight. You were told by the district attorney that what was happening to your own flesh and blood was none of your concern? That is outrageous!

[Glen Tarr]

Paul has broken no laws by placing his hand on a fictitious book and promising to do his job.

I'd be extremely surprised if New Jersey attorneys were required to take an oath on the Bible. I'm a member of the Oregon and California bars and neither of those states requires or expects that.

I also think it's important to remember that this isn't about whether the Bible is fictitious or not. It's about whether it's Constitutional for a government-paid teacher to proselytize to his students during class.

[Guest Guest]

In one religion. However, those who choose to throw off the shackles of such an oppressive ideology as religion should not have to be bombarded for choosing to say "Happy Holidays", "Season's Greetings" or whatever other nicety they decide to go with. Just as you feel you have the write to say, "Merry Christmas".

Now.. what this has to do with the discussion at hand, I have no idea. We are talking about a young man who exposed a crime.

He didn't "egg him on". He asked a question, the topic had already strayed from US History and fallen off the map into the idiocy of religious discussion.

"These type of people"? Excuse me? Would you care to elaborate? I take offense to being labeled as a "those people".. especially when it is from someone as hypocritical and holier-than-thou as yourself.

Are you saying that we cannot allow people with integrity and grit to continue? You prefer those that would sit back on their haunches and allow a crime to be committed? Like the other "snot noses" in the class?

So you support the breaking of laws? How very interesting.

So this teacher, by breaking the law is "standing his ground", while the young man in question, who pointed out the crime is not allowed to do that? You are really twisted.

Have you taken a poll? Do you know this to be true?

Who says that you get to decide what is right? The Constitution already does that, and your "hero-teacher/preacher" was in violation of that.

Oh, joy.. I tremble at the thought that you will fill the Internet(s) with more of your drivel. Oh.. no wait. I was just rolling my eyes. As you were. Please, don't waste the bandwidth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The "write to say Merry Christmas".

I rest my case on this D**bA**.

[Guest WilliamK]

I think that the sheer number of people who seem to be attacking athiests, agnostics and those who consider their faith undefined definitively proves that the true persecuted religion in this country is NOT christianity.

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Yes, it does expose the lie. Christianity is not a persecuted religion in this country. In fact, it enjoys greater exposure and influence than any other simply by virtue of being the majority religion. But christian fundamentalism (note that I did not say christianity in general) is the greatest SOURCE of religious persecution in this country. And when someone resists or takes a stand against it, the fundamentalists start pointing fingers and crying "PERSECUTION!", "OPPRESSION!". They speak of honor, decency, compassion, and truth, while exhibiting quite the opposite. Hypocrisy, deceit, hatred, and lies are the very foundation of fundamentalism, be it christian or otherwise.

To those who still don't get it:

Others refusing to submit to YOUR indoctrination IS NOT religious persecution.

Others having the same freedom you have to express their views, even when you disagree with them, with IS NOT religious persecution.

Requiring government to stay out of religious matters IS NOT religious persecution.

Having to abide by the same laws as anyone else when acting as a government employee of the IS NOT religious persecution.

Others calling you to task for breaking the law IS NOT religious persecution.

Expressing criticism of your beliefs in a public forum IS NOT religious persecution.

Corrupting science education in order to push your religious beliefs on others IS religious persecution.

Abusing the power of government to promote, or in any way favor your religion over others IS religious persecution.

Here's how it works:

Citizens have rights of free speech and freedom of religion. The government, by design, does not. Because the government wields such great power, to grant it those rights would be to give it authority over what people say, think, and believe. Which would, of course, infringe those same rights as held by the people.

A conflict becomes immediatly obvious there, doesn't it? How do you deny these rights to the government when the government is made up of Citizens? It's not that hard to resolve, really. Those who are employed by any arm of the government must abide the restrictions placed on government while acting on the govermnent's behalf. Outside of their jobs, they have the same rights and freedoms as anyone else. Keeping a clean separation between their personal and professional lives is an integral part of the jobs they're being paid to do. If they are incapable of doing their jobs properly, then they should seek employment elsewhere, either voluntarily or involuntarily.

There is no inherent problem with hiring a youth minister to teach history. But, like anyone else, he must abide the law and properly do the job he was hired to do. This one has rather spectacularly failed to do that.

[Guest Guest]

Yes, it is more than painfully clear, as is the appalling ignorance of our own Constitution.  I suppose that's what happens when you use the Bible as your history book. 

And c'mon, are you townspeople going to actually address the issues raised by this teacher's actions, or are you going to continue rambling for another 30 pages about irrelevant personal opinions and delusional religious beliefs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another hero from outside Kearny! How about solving the problems in your own town?

[Guest Guest]

Firstly, I would like to offer my regards and encouragement to the LaClair family. Please keep up the good work, even though I am not an American, these issues are a sign of the times that have import in the whole world community. A community that is far too sparcely populated with pricncipaled people of reason and courage, such as yourselves.  Matthew. You should consider going into politics. You're a good lad.

To the moderate christians who have voiced condemnation of Mr. Paszkiewiczs' actions and recognising the bigger issue, of educating our future generations, free of bigoted religious indoctrination by stealth and emotional blackmail, many kudos for the respect and maturity you have bought to the debate.   It should serve to remind us that the real enemy in this case, is not religion per se, but evangelical dogmatism and bigitory itself. Some people will twist things in their own mind, anyway they can to justify crusades and support the crusaders who stand accused of Going too far.

Consider the following post by Daniel. Did I miss an earlier post announcing a competition for who could write the most inane, ass-backward and ignorant post? Why is it that ignorant fundementalists never seem to have read and comprehended these kind of debates? Why is it that they spout such innane, illinformed drivel that it chalenges the composure of even the most tollerent, forgiving and reasonable mind?.

NO! Daniel. That is exactly why Mr. Paszkiewicz has been called out. It is because he was caught teaching his own INTOLLERANT beliefs to his class. Unless you and I are reading two totaly different stories here, lets get one thing straight. Neither Matthew or his dad (Paul), have attempted to condem Mr. Paszkiewicz for his beliefs.

The issue is that he was teaching those beliefs in a school history class, thats one thing and secondly, that his invocation of eternal damnation in hell is tantamount to emotional blackmail. It dosn't get much clearer cut, without dragging in a pulpit, donning a cloak and physicaly thumping a bible while preaching his sermon to these kids. Whatever his beliefs are, he has no right briniging them into a history class and exploiting their impressionable minds as their entrusted (government employed) teacher.

And if instead, he belived that the Invisible Pink Unicorn (which created the universe) sent fairies into the enchanted garden to make the fairy dust of faith, so that we could have unlimited fortune and atune our harmonic ressonance with the holistic light of utopian trancendence... Do you then belive he should share his faith? 

He is not shareing his opinion with visitors in his own home, or people he has bumped into on the street. He is acting as a trusted representative of the government education system, and violating that trust by PREACHING his beliefs to the exclusion of all other doctrines, as well as contradicting established scientific facts. You seem to be saying that just because he has these beliefs he should be allowed to "share his faith" He can believe whatever cockamamie thing he wishes for whatever cockamamie "reasons" he likes but his job is to teach history in a formal established curriculum.

Your biased evaluation of the situation Daniel, paints the picture that the people he was addressing, were casual aquaintences in an open forum. WRONG!!  These young people were his students, whom he has been entrusted to care for and educate. The forum is a classroom where he is employed to teach established facts about our world. Whatever your understanding of the word "faith" it doesn't corelate to anything that belongs in a school classroom. He was not just stating his beliefs incidentaly either, as your interpretation sugests. He was damning anybody to hell who didn't accept salvation. And again he didn't just mention God in passing he done a fully fleged funementalist sales pitch that consumed almost the entire lesson.

And it's my belief (based on well reasoned ethics) that he shouldn't.    Put aside the fact that it's illegal, it is also immoral to undermine the developing mind of adolescent children by indoctrinating them with this stupefying dogma, before they have fully develeped their reasoning facaulties.

WRONG

I don't recall anybody talking about sueing anybody. Paul has clearly detailed his expectations and they are very reasonable, involving an apology and procedures to ensure these things never happen again.

WRONG

Try, for emotional blackmail, indoctrination and villification of dissenting views.

WRONG

NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!... It is because it violates the constitution that Matthew has taken a stand. You can't possibly have read and comprehended any of the material preceeding your ignorant post, if you would come here and spout such stupid nonsense. Matthews, beliefs are not on trial, nor are Mr. Paszkiewiczs' beliefs The actions of Mr. Paszkiewicz are being scrutinised as uncostitutional.

WRONG

Matthew is not atacking Mr. Paszkiewiczs' beliefs. I know it must be hard with a dogma stunted IQ, but try to understand there is a difference between, Mr. Paszkiewicz holding a belief and Mr. Paszkiewicz prostlysing that belief in school, as a teacher.

You see... This is what religion does to you brains people!! So far Daniel, your contribution has been a succesion of stupid remarks.

Honestly Daniel your reasoning skills are attrocious. For the effort you have put into following this story, understanding it, and providing a cogent thought out response, you might just have well blown a rassberry with your thumb on your nose and chanted "Nyaaa nyaaa nyee nyaaa nyaaa" Did you even listen to the audio or read the transcript?

I'll tell you who needs help, it is narrow minded, dogmatic biggots such as yourself, who can't even read plain text in front of their face without twisting the facts to suit their dogma infected minds. Matthew has taken a stand against somebody (namely Mr. Paszkiewicz) who "can't handle someone else having beliefs other than his". It is the very thing that you accuse Matthew of, "intollerance" that he is standing up against. It is the very thing that Mr. Paszkiewicz is accused of. Nobody here bar the seriously deluded, is even considering this in any other terms than whether or not Mr. Paszkiewicz is guilty of intollerence, indoctrination, prostelysing etc.

Why is it that fundemenalist Christians don't understand simple fact that their religious belief is a contradiction of other beliefs? Why is it that they can never see or comprehend, that by saying "this scripture is the unaliable word of the one and only true God", they are contradicting another persons beliefs and insulting them also? School is not where somebody should go to hear a teachers (or anybody elses) deluded ramblings. It is where they go to learn facts and skills they will need in the real world.

Now you and Mr. Paszkiewicz can believe what ever deluded fantasy you choose Daniel, I honestly don't give a rats fanny. The reason I support Matthew, is because I am apposed to religious indoctrination of innocent minds. It is religious fundementalism itself, that breeds intollerance an hatred, because it espouses absolute beliefs to the exclusion of all others. Paszkiewicz was intollerant to other beliefs and worldviews by espousing his delusions of damnation in hell, and projecting that scenario onto his students. This is an insult to Muslems, Hindus, Buddhists and even moderate Christians, but especialy athiests, because unreasoned faith is anathema to free-thinking athiests.

Look you nutcase. Matthews' father is a lawyer himself. Exactly how much of this story did you read? And it's you who should be talking to a therapist... through a small window in a padded cell. Hey!! I just thought of an alternative use for churches after religion has been put in it's place. (OK... mabee just the evangelical chapters)

Once again many thanks and kudos to the LaClair family. The world is watching. Hi from Australia.

~~~~~~~ If you don't prey in my school, I won't think in your church. ~~~~~~~

PS: A note to Christians:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It would be hard to imagine a more ideal scenario, for testing the line that could be drawn between fundementalist and a moderate Christianity. Anybody sidding with the LaClair family obviously has ethics and justice at heart. Anybody standing with Paszkiewicz is clearly a dogmatic fundementalist with an evangelical adjenda to the exclusion of other faiths, athiests and moderates alike. If a battle over religion in schools must be waged (and it does seem timely), It might do the world good to draw battle lines that include moderate people of many faiths including christians along with athiests and agnostics etc, on one side and fundementalist zealots on the other. If religion itself is not the problem, then reasonable people of faith should hear a clarion call to fall in alongside people of goodwill and reason to protect education.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Skepticus, do you a have job? It doesn't look like you do! You spend so much time posting in here. By the way, invite the LaClairs to move to Australia, this way they will live us ALONE!

[Strife767]

why is the town having problems with the best teacher to hit town in years!A PROUD AMERICAN IS 100 % RIGHT! the town has lost its way in the dark! and kearny IS IN ITS DARK DAYS! the very thing that our life and laws are made of is at risk!

All that shows is that you have a completely false idea of what exactly is "the very thing that our life and laws are made of."

when god is left out of teaching in school

things are just as they should be. When it comes to public school, at least. Church and state are to be separate, and public schools are part of the state. No one is forced into public schooling--enroll your kid(s) in private school or homeschool them if you don't like the fact that religion is _necessarily_ absent from public schooling, as per the Constiution of the United States of America.

the very way of life in the usa is at risk!

Nonsense. It is precisely because of kids like Matthew that the way of life in the USA is not at risk of being trampled over by religious zealots.

thats just what UBL WANTS! the town folk NEEDS TO WAKE UP AND ASK GOD TO FORGIVE THE STUPID DUMB THINGS SOME FOLK ARE SAYING!

As useless (and unnecessary) as such an action is, I fully support and encourage you and whoever else to do as much praying in your spare time as you want.

this is a good time for kearny to " repent" for pushing god out of schools

On the contrary--it is people like you trying to push your god into schools! Not only that, but I bet you're enough of a hypocrite to demand your religion be taught in public schools, but would be outraged if Islam was taught as well.

and every day life

Nonsense. No one is trying to take your god out of your everyday life. Religion is a personal thing--that is why separation of church and state exists. Public school is no place to promote one's personal beliefs. You're just going to have to deal with that. That kid was 100% in the right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest Guest]

Lots of people from all over the coutry are weighing in on this topic. Lots of people with little knowledge of the individuals involved, the local community, or the operations of the local school board have suddenly becoming "experts" in all things Kearny.

As someone who grew up in Kearny, who still maintains strong ties to (and pays taxes in) Kearny, and who has known the teacher for over 30 years, let me just weigh in on this subject.

Although we do not communicate frequently, I have always known the teacher in this matter to be a kind, decent and honest individual - as well as a very competent teacher. He also happens to have strong religious and political beliefs that vary substantially from mine. Yet although his opinions differ greatly from my beliefs, we have managed to maintain a positive relationship for the better part of three decades. So for those on the outside who think that people in Kearny can't have a difference of opinion without devolving to the lowest common denominator, think again.

The student in this matter, Matthew, was raised by a father who also has very different political and religious beliefs than the teacher. It is my understanding that Matthew was not very popular in school because of the beliefs he shared with his father. This is not uncommon in other communities - where people voice opinions that are out of the norm, or in nature itself, which abhors entropy. So to those who suggest that people in Kearny are "wrong" for ostracizing Matthew in this matter well, you have a point, but don't act like it wouldn't happen in your backyard either. For better or worse, Kearny hasn't cornered the market on small-mindedness.

Back to the issue: Matthew felt that what the teacher was doing is wrong, and took steps to stop the action. At the same time, as I read in an earlier post, it also gave the LaClairs the opportunity to espouse - on a very large stage - their beliefs. And they took it ... for better or worse they stepped into the limelight at least appreciating that what they were going to do would be unpopular with some, draw the ire of others, and find support among many as well.

I don't know Matthew. I know the teacher. As far as what happened in the classroom, Matthew was 100% correct. According to established law, the teacher violated the establishment clause. If you don't agree with that - take it up with the legislature and have them amend the Constitution. Until then, that's where the law stands. I don't agree with Matthew's tactics of taping anyone in a classroom (I think it can have a chilling effect on the education process). I know that it's legal - but I just think it sets a bad precedent. As far as an apology and a correction ... I think that the statements should have been corrected - at a minimum by having the teacher state that what he said was opinion and not in accordance with the curriculum taught down the hall in science class (remember, this was a history class). An apology? Yeah, if I'm the teacher I'd probably apologize, but I don't think that anyone was unequivocally OWED an apology in this matter.

When we get into what occurred AFTER the classroom incidents, I have seen and heard all types of accounts of what really happened. And since I don't know (and since no one other than the actual parties at issue were there), I really can't make a firm statement on who acted appropriately and who did not. However, I thought that the events that occurred afterwards were reported on poorly by the local paper, The Observer, and only with slightly more journalistic integrity by the New York Times (which pains me to say).

The amazing part is how irrational supporters of both sides have gotten. I can't believe that people actually wanted to SUSPEND MATTHEW! As if the kid doesn't have enough problems to deal with right now. If you truly feel that he acted inappropriately by surreptitiously taping his teacher, are his social challenges not enough of a punishment (or have you forgetten what it's like to be in high school)? And I also can't believe that people actually want the teacher TERMINATED! Aren't we all entitled to make a mistake from time to time? If the teacher continues to act inappropriately, then talk of suspensions and terminations are appropriate. Until then, be thankful for all of the times that you've been given a second chance.

Can't we all just live with the fact that Matthew is going to continue going to school, and that David is going to continue teaching there? Can't we all just give it a rest and just talk about some of the open issues? Let's talk about under what circumstances is it appropriate or inappropriate to tape someone in a classroom setting without his or her consent (students may be less than willing to participate in classroom discussions if they may be being taped). Let's talk about to what extent a teacher may express his or her opinions about Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Humanism or any other -Ism in a classroom without violating the establishment clause. Leave the resolution of this isolated matter to the parties at issue (Paul seems perfectly capable of keeping these issues moving forward and, although he's going to get stonewalled by the school board, I trust his persistence will cause changes - and may already have caused changes - within the administration that may not be visible now). Instead, let's try to build some sort of consensus as to how these items should be viewed THE NEXT TIME AND IN THE NEXT LOCATION that something like this should occur. Otherwise, we're all crying over milk that was spilled months ago

[Guest Guest]

Yes, it is more than painfully clear, as is the appalling ignorance of our own Constitution.  I suppose that's what happens when you use the Bible as your history book. 

And c'mon, are you townspeople going to actually address the issues raised by this teacher's actions, or are you going to continue rambling for another 30 pages about irrelevant personal opinions and delusional religious beliefs?

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LadyGuest from Ohio - with all due respect, you are owed NOTHING from the townspeople.

[Guest Guest]

I frum Kerny.  I dun lived herebouts my hole life.  U librals dont no squat bout nuthin.  Now look hear y' goofs.  Sumtimes our yung'ns jest gots to have da fearagod puts in dey heds or dey bee runnin' round gittin' idjit idears like dat dang seprashun o' church 'n state.  Dat's Y we be's hirin' gud teechers dat knows rite frum rong.  Now hush yore traps.

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Kearny has historically been run by Democrats and liberal minded individuals. Don't let the reported statements of one of its citizens confuse you on the political heartbeat of this town. Your failure to at least check voting logs before making your juvenile and not even very creative response only highlights your ignorance. We don't need idiots trying to "help" us in our battle against conservative ideology. As they say, with friends like you, who needs a proctologist?

[Guest Guest]

Oh Kearny,

Like it or not you are now on the World Stage and I'm afraid, reading many of the local resident's posts to this board, you're embarrassing yourself and your town quite severely for not behaving in accordance to the high standards set by your founding fathers.

You are embarrassing all who call ourselves Americans.  Please consider themes such as reason, liberty, and open mindedness before posting to this board.

Thanks, and welcome to the 21st century.

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Keep jumping to conclusions about people and places you know nothing about. Maybe you'll fall and skin your knee.

[Guest Guest]

um, so I am a true jersey girl, but I've never been to Kearny before...I just looked at its demo. statistics and found out that the place is well below the national average in educational attainment...only 70% of Kearny residents have high school diploma's vs. 80% for the whole country,  for college degrees, its 17% for Kearny and 24% for the rest of the country.  It's strange that a town with such a dismal educational foundation would be so quick to defend itself and its poor teachers. The failure of education in Kearny is evident in its job force participation and unemployment figures, which are both worse than the national average.

This is joined by a corresponding high level of religious belief in Kearny vs. the rest of the country.  In Kearny 62% of people call themselves religious, while only 50% do in the whole country.  Interestingly, the majority of the religious folks in Kearny are Catholic, with over 52% of the population of Kearny  while Catholics make up only about 22% of the population in the whole country.  (Kearny has under 5% Protestants, while the nation has about a 19% Protestant population)

These figures paint the portrait of a town that is fairly isolated from different ways of thinking, particularly in regard to religion, poorly educated, and economically disadvantaged.  Further, the changes in population statistics show that it has a negative population rate (meaning more people are leaving than moving in) while at the same time there has been an explosion of other, non-white or non-Catholic populations, particularly Latino/a's and Muslims.  This suggests that the good folks of Kearny who are members of the old guard might be, um, freaking out and having a few issues of the xenophobic type and maybe, just maybe, want everyone and everything new and upsetting to just shut up and go away.

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Liars, damn liars and statisticians.

[Guest Wes Sandel]

Paszkiewicz is a wonderful man and an excellent teacher. The best one I ever had and his class was the only class that I actually learned history.

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You actually think you learned history from this guy? Paszkiewicz thinks that George Bush will be remembered as one of our greatest presidents, and that most of the people in New Orleans that were displaced by the storm were white (directly from the recordings). The man's a fountain of narrow minded ignorance, and he's molding his students in his image. This should bother the parents of the students.

[Guest Guest]

Yes, it is more than painfully clear, as is the appalling ignorance of our own Constitution.  I suppose that's what happens when you use the Bible as your history book. 

And c'mon, are you townspeople going to actually address the issues raised by this teacher's actions, or are you going to continue rambling for another 30 pages about irrelevant personal opinions and delusional religious beliefs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet the pick option B. But... that's just my observation.

[Guest Guest_Doc_*]

"and religion in a history class is not that place."

Wow, then, like you don't know any American History, then, do you? Let the guy be. At least he has the guts to answer the students' honest questions about such topics . That is more than 99% of you would do.

[Guest A.V. Blom]

I don't know Matthew.  I know the teacher.  As far as what happened in the classroom, Matthew was 100% correct.  According to established law, the teacher violated the establishment clause.  If you don't agree with that - take it up with the legislature and have them amend the Constitution.  Until then, that's where the law stands.  I don't agree with Matthew's tactics of taping anyone in a classroom (I think it can have a chilling effect on the education process).  I know that it's legal - but I just think it sets a bad precedent.  As far as an apology and a correction ... I think that the statements should have been corrected - at a minimum by having the teacher state that what he said was opinion and not in accordance with the curriculum taught down the hall in science class (remember, this was a history class).  An apology?  Yeah, if I'm the teacher I'd probably apologize, but I don't think that anyone was unequivocally OWED an apology in this matter.

I must respectfully differ where your opinion of taping is concerned, for two reasons:

1) The precedent has already been set. Students frequently tape college lectures -I do it myself, occasionally, especially after I've been up all night.

2) Even if it would have set a precedent, other cases of it can be viewed on their own merit. Because in this case, Matthew was right on the money. He thought the teacher would deny having said anything illegal -and he was right about it. The teacher lied about it, showing that he knew fully well his actions had been illegal...and that he did not care either way, counting on his apparent popularity to shield him from criticism.

While I do not deny that taping someone is indeed a very large step to take, it should not be forgotten that in this case, Matthew's deed more than vindicated itself.

As for owing apologies: yes, I DO believe an apology is owed, to those offended by the teacher (apparently, breaking the law is not offensive to some people...even though an attempt to subvert the frakking Contstitution of the United States of America is far more 'treasonous' than refusing to stand for the Pledge).

The people who have been told they were going to go to and suffer for eternity for not believing as Mr. P. did...he owes them an apology. An apology which, unfortunately, they are unlikely to get unless it is forced out of P...and even then will be completely insincere.

[Guest Townspeople]

Yes, it is more than painfully clear, as is the appalling ignorance of our own Constitution.  I suppose that's what happens when you use the Bible as your history book. 

And c'mon, are you townspeople going to actually address the issues raised by this teacher's actions, or are you going to continue rambling for another 30 pages about irrelevant personal opinions and delusional religious beliefs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The issue has been addressed. Two months ago!

[Guest A.V. Blom]

"and religion in a history class is not that place."

Wow, then, like you don't know any American History, then, do you?  Let the guy be. At least he has the guts to answer the students' honest questions about such topics . That is more than 99% of you would do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well...unless you can explain to me what 'Halloween is Pagan and teh evil!!!' has to do with American history, your remarks are clearly nonsensical. While American history DOES have to do with religion -it would, for example, be quite appropriate when discussing the morives for 9/11 or the abortion clinic bombings-, that does not mean there should be any preaching.

In other words, your argument is a huge, gaping strawman.

As for 'guts': It does not take 'guts' to preach to a class that -apparently- mostly agrees with him, and thereby break the law. All it takes is a warped and deranged mind, without any semblance of honor or common decency.