Grimm

No..the point is that this discussion or issue has NOTHING to do with discrediting God. What the teacher did is wrong not based on the validity of God or Jesus or the Bible. It's wrong because what he did was unconstitutional. By incorrectly boiling it down to "discredit God" you want others to not think this issue through critically and logically because they already know were they stand on that issue but that is not what this is about.

No..the point is that this discussion or issue has NOTHING to do with discrediting God. What the teacher did is wrong not based on the validity of God or Jesus or the Bible. It's wrong because what he did was unconstitutional. By incorrectly boiling it down to "discredit God" you want others to not think this issue through critically and logically because they already know were they stand on that issue but that is not what this is about.

The issue here is not if Mathew has a "problem with God" or not. The issue is that the teacher and his supporters have a problem with The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. The fact that you see respecting the Bill of Rights as an "attack against God" is a perfect example of how fundamentalists can pervert an issue like this in a way that they feel justified in violating The Constitution.

You clearly do not understand what "Freedom of Speech" stands for. It does not stand for anyone can say anything anywhere. There are some limitations such as safety...yelling fire in a crowded theater is the common example used here. Another limitation is when the speech violates the Constitution and The Bill of Rights. As an employee of the government a government school teacher can not proselytize to their students as it violates the First Amendment. The teacher is of course free to do so on their own time somewhere other then school where they no longer are wearing the hat of a government employee. If you want to interpret protecting the First Amendment as a "gag order" that is your choice but it only shows your lack of understanding of the First Amendment. Why should a teacher be afraid of their lectures being recorded if they aren't doing anything wrong? These are not private conversations we are talking about here and saying "public school classroom" is not the same as saying "public square". A more accurate description would be a "government school classroom". You don't know what was said but "can easily imagine that the teacher's words were presented in a false light"? Now who is being presumptuous? You can add that I should be ashamed of myself...but standing up for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and supporting those that do the same is nothing to be ashamed of. Participating? No! Using the government to push a religious agenda in direct violation of the Bill of Rights? Yes! Oh things like "If you reject his gift of salvation, then you know where you belong" and "He did everything in his power to make sure that you could go to heaven, so much so that he took your sins on his own body, suffered your pains for you, and he’s saying, ‘Please, accept me, believe.’ If you reject that, you belong in hell."....you know...stuff like that. Where did you get the idea that free speech is a faith-based concept?

The teacher was in the wrong here. There is nothing that can be used to excuse his behavior. The student recorded the class without his knowledge...irrelevant. The student asked questions to lead him on....also irrelevant. The people that are blaming the student should be ashamed of themselves. Those that are hiding behind the flag and the pledge should be doubly ashamed. Calling someone a traitor or unpatriotic because of what? Because he is standing up for his rights? Because unlike his teacher he respects the Constitution more then an oath to the flag? The teacher was in the wrong plain and simple and he knew he was in the wrong which is why he denied saying the things that he said. I would also like to point out to the liberals on this board that these people who support the teacher are NOT true conservatives. They are religious right fundamentalist Christians who have hi-jacked the conservative name and party. True conservatives support the Constitution and The Bill of Rights and they don't use the power of the government to push their religious views on the citizens of this country! "The Republicans are selling their soul to win elections. Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." Barry Goldwater--1994