Feeding Frenzy

[Guest 2smart4u]

In fact it is proven and is fact. It's not a belief.

There is no other explanation other than those based on faith.

As for the origins of life, of course that's one of the toughest questions to solve because it occured billions of years ago on in an environment completely different from ours and even if a good idea of what might of happened it would be very difficult to reproduce in a lab.

But it's obvious that it happened because we are here.

As for 2Smart to Wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye

The evolution of the eye has been a subject of significant study, as a distinctive example of a homologous organ present in a wide variety of species. The development of the eye is considered by most experts to be monophyletic; that is, all modern eyes, varied as they are, have their origins in a proto-eye believed to have evolved some 540 million years ago. The majority of the process is believed to have taken only a few million years, as the first predator to gain true imaging would have touched off an "arms race". Prey animals and competing predators alike would be forced to rapidly match or exceed any such capabilities to survive. Hence multiple eye types and subtypes developed in parallel.

Was that so hard?

The funny thing is that eyes are so prevalent that it POINTS TO THE FACT THAT ALL LIFE HAS A COMMON ANCESTOR!!! It's the BEST example that points to adaptation by natural selection. Predators' eyes evolved so they would be better hunters and prey's eyes developed as to evade getting caught.

2Smart... you can remove your foot from the mouth now.

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Sorry, Steve Boy. Evolution is a theory, only a theory. Dispite all the Darwiniac authors you can quote, it will remain a theory.

"All life has a common ancestor because eyes are so prevalent" ?? Mice and elephants are related ?? Strike three, Steve.....you're out.

[ElneClare]

"answered several times" ??  "copious evidence" ??  I must have missed all that copious evidence.  Run it by me again.

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Why don't you just try taking the scales off your eyes?

Sorry folks, I just couldnt resist adding a little NT humor on the subject

[Guest 2smart4u]

This should clear it up for you. Evolution is a theory and a fact, scientifically speaking.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

Not at all--I'll explain below.

Ah, but you do realize that this is a common misconception about the theory of evolution, don't you? Evolution explains how life progresses after it starts--it does not explain nor does it attempt to explain how life began. The idea of life coming from non-life would be covered by the relatively new science, abiogenesis, not by the theory of evolution.

The reason fundies hate the theory of evolution is because their beliefs dictate not only an origin, but a lack of progression. That's the thing they don't like about evolution--their beliefs say that all the different "kinds" (goooood luck getting ANYONE to give you a real, workable definition of what entails a Biblical "kind"--fundies always avoid that question because the second they give a definition, it will be destroyed outright. *chuckles*) poofed into existence at once, and that species never evolved into new species.

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"species evolve into new species" ?? Sort of like Strife767 having evolved from a jackass ?? Ok, that makes sense to me.

[Guest Guest]

In fact it is proven and is fact. It's not a belief.

There is no other explanation other than those based on faith.

As for the origins of life, of course that's one of the toughest questions to solve because it occured billions of years ago on in an environment completely different from ours and even if a good idea of what might of happened it would be very difficult to reproduce in a lab.

But it's obvious that it happened because we are here.

As for 2Smart to Wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye

The evolution of the eye has been a subject of significant study, as a distinctive example of a homologous organ present in a wide variety of species. The development of the eye is considered by most experts to be monophyletic; that is, all modern eyes, varied as they are, have their origins in a proto-eye believed to have evolved some 540 million years ago. The majority of the process is believed to have taken only a few million years, as the first predator to gain true imaging would have touched off an "arms race". Prey animals and competing predators alike would be forced to rapidly match or exceed any such capabilities to survive. Hence multiple eye types and subtypes developed in parallel.

Was that so hard?

The funny thing is that eyes are so prevalent that it POINTS TO THE FACT THAT ALL LIFE HAS A COMMON ANCESTOR!!! It's the BEST example that points to adaptation by natural selection. Predators' eyes evolved so they would be better hunters and prey's eyes developed as to evade getting caught.

2Smart... you can remove your foot from the mouth now.

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Steve you do have faith man!

[Guest Guest]

No it isn't. It's essential to the freedom of everyone to worship as they see fit without government interference. Our country did just fine for many years without "under God" in the pledge, until the witch-hunter Joseph McCarthy, one of the most divisive politicians in our history, had it added in the 1950s'. Doesn't that history tell you anything? How ironic it is that this controversy started in a US history class.

I say again: Many nations have been ripped apart and even destroyed by religious conflict, but there is not one historical example of any nation being harmed by allowing all its people to worship freely as they see fit, the government staying out of it.

I ask again: Why isn't this the best rule?

The fact that none of you even tries to answer this question is the answer.

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Mr. LaClair just deal with the fact that it is there and move on with your life. If your son refuses to stand to the flag solute, I think it is very disrespectuful, but it is his chose, there nothing we can do about it. However that won't change the fact that God exists, whether you are happy with it or not. DEAL WITH IT! There is not much you can do other than sue everyone who mentions GOD in front of you.

[Guest Guest]

I challenge anyone reading these posts to answer this:

If the teacher in question, David Paszkiewicz, were in his class telling students that that they would all go to hell unless they were Muslims worshipping Mohammed (instead of Christians worshipping Jesus), would there be even one-tenth as much support from the community for the teacher?

The issue is really about the separation of church and state and every citizen's right to be free from religious indoctrination, especially when it is at the expense of the state. The Kearny School Board should be ashamed of its inaction on this matter. Matthew LaClair is clearly interested only in this basic right. That the cowardly school board and his hypocritical history teacher would deprive him and anyone else of this is a stain on the entire community.

Religious fundamentalism plagues humanity the world over. A world filled with religious zealots all equally convinced that their beliefs are the only true way to “salvation” will always be a world at war with itself.

[Guest Patriot]

No it isn't. It's essential to the freedom of everyone to worship as they see fit without government interference. Our country did just fine for many years without "under God" in the pledge, until the witch-hunter Joseph McCarthy, one of the most divisive politicians in our history, had it added in the 1950s'. Doesn't that history tell you anything? How ironic it is that this controversy started in a US history class.

I say again: Many nations have been ripped apart and even destroyed by religious conflict, but there is not one historical example of any nation being harmed by allowing all its people to worship freely as they see fit, the government staying out of it.

I ask again: Why isn't this the best rule?

The fact that none of you even tries to answer this question is the answer.

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The U.S. was founded under Judeo-Christian principals. Our currency reflects that, as does our Pledge of Allegiance. We would be all better off if the non-believers would just shut up. If you want to worship Mohammad, do it in your basement, quietly. If you believe in Mother Nature, fine, I don't want to hear it. The problem is that the atheists feel they should have "equal billing" with the christians. "It ain't gonna happen" !!

[Guest Steve_C]

Steve - I see no reason to overstate this (other than 2Smart4U p*ssed you off).  There is no other scientific-based explanation ... RIGHT NOW ... but who knows what science will turn up in the centuries to come.  Without having to go through all of the "facts" that have been disproven through the centuries, let it be enough to say that arrogance has no place in science, and insisting that ANYTHING is a fact that is above reproach flies in the face of the scientific method.

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So gravity isn't a fact?

Listen. Evolution has been witnessed in the lab. It can be reproduced.

Adaptation through natural selection is a fact. We understand it down to the gene level.

We understand the process completely. It's not some crazy mystery.

Theory does not mean something is unproven or not fact. It means that you have an idea to be tested and studied. If it fails the test, it's dropped. Know why we don't talk about the Theory of a Geocentrism? Because science proved it wrong.

You don't think that if evolution was false it would have been disproven by now??? It's been around for over 100 years. It led to the discovery of DNA. All of biological science is based on it.

You can't be an agnostic when it comes to evolution.

[Guest Guest]

I challenge anyone reading these posts to answer this:

If the teacher in question, David Paszkiewicz, were in his class telling students that that they would all go to hell unless they were Muslims worshipping Mohammed (instead of Christians worshipping Jesus), would there be even one-tenth as much support from the community for the teacher?

The issue is really about the separation of church and state and every citizen's right to be free from religious indoctrination, especially when it is at the expense of the state. 

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I don't even see it as so much a religious issue as it being a teacher abusing his position at the front of the class and the typically blind, closed ranks of other teachers protecting one of their own with no regard of right or wrong.

[Calybos]

Mr. LaClair just deal with the fact that it is there and move on with your life. If your son refuses to stand to the flag solute, I think it is very disrespectuful, but it is his chose, there nothing we can do about it. However that won't change the fact that God exists, whether you are happy with it or not.  DEAL WITH IT! There is not much you can do other than sue everyone who mentions GOD in front of you.

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So if the government is violating our Constitutional freedoms he should just "deal with it"? Interesting perspective, but not all citizens are content to be as lazy and irresponsible as that.

And 2smart's technique of labeling all evidence in support of Darwin as "Darwiniac lies" is a very conventient one, don't you think? It enables him to ignore all the evidence and insist that there is, instead, a global conspiracy of evil, Christian-hating scientists (many of them Christians themselves)... all without a shred of logic or evidence needed to support his own claims. "I don't need any evidence," he smugly announces, "as long as I can ignore yours and say it's all lies from proven liars. How do I know? Because they say something I've decided is untrue, and only liars would do that."

You can see how far he's progressed from the fundamentalist "reasoning" of The Bible Is True Because the Bible SAYS It's True. Ironically, people like 2smart are the best evidence against evolution--because it's clearly left him behind.

[Strife767]

If your son refuses to stand to the flag solute, I think it is very disrespectuful, but it is his chose, there nothing we can do about it. However that won't change the fact that God exists, whether you are happy with it or not.  DEAL WITH IT!

If you, instead of just saying you believe in God, will proclaim that his existence is fact (with such confidence too)--you are in dire need of psychological evaluation, as you are showing textbook signs of schizophrenia.

God is not a fact, you crazy guest you. Not even close.

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[Guest Steve_C]

You present a Darwiniac author as absolute proof supporting Darwinism. That wouldn't  stand up in a courtroom and it doesn't stand up here.

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It worked in the Dover trial.

[Strife767]

I challenge anyone reading these posts to answer this:

If the teacher in question, David Paszkiewicz, were in his class telling students that that they would all go to hell unless they were Muslims worshipping Mohammed (instead of Christians worshipping Jesus), would there be even one-tenth as much support from the community for the teacher?

Damned right there wouldn't. You know it, I know it, and I'm sure the fundies know it too. They always seem to shy away from this question--I've noticed it asked like half a dozen times, and it's never been given a straightforward answer by any of Mr. P's apologists. Not even once.

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[Guest Steve_C]

"species evolve into new species" ??  Sort of like Strife767 having evolved from a jackass ??  Ok, that makes sense to me.

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It's called SPECIATION.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation

Speciation is the evolutionary process by which new biological species arise. There are four modes of natural speciation, based on the extent to which speciating populations are geographically isolated from one another: allopatric, peripatric, parapatric, and sympatric. Speciation may also be induced artificially, through animal husbandry or laboratory experiments. Observed examples of each kind of speciation[1] are provided throughout.

[Guest Steve_C]

Sorry, Steve Boy.  Evolution is a theory, only a theory.  Dispite all the Darwiniac authors you can quote, it will remain a theory.

  "All life has a common ancestor because eyes are so prevalent" ??  Mice and elephants are related ??  Strike three, Steve.....you're out.

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Yes, mice and elephants are related. They are mammals. They had a common ancestor millions of years ago. Through evolution some mammals got smalller and smaller to survive. Some got very very big. Mammoths are an example. Dinosaurs evolved into birds. Some mammals evolved to live solely in the water... whales and dolphins had ancestors that walked on land.

Here is what SCIENTIFIC THEORY MEANS:

In science, a theory is a proposed description, explanation, or model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation.

[Guest Guest]

I challenge anyone reading these posts to answer this:

If the teacher in question, David Paszkiewicz, were in his class telling students that that they would all go to hell unless they were Muslims worshipping Mohammed (instead of Christians worshipping Jesus), would there be even one-tenth as much support from the community for the teacher?

The issue is really about the separation of church and state and every citizen's right to be free from religious indoctrination, especially when it is at the expense of the state. The Kearny School Board should be ashamed of its inaction on this matter. Matthew LaClair is clearly interested only in this basic right. That the cowardly school board and his hypocritical history teacher would deprive him and anyone else of this is a stain on the entire community.

Religious fundamentalism plagues humanity the world over. A world filled with religious zealots all equally convinced that their beliefs are the only true way to “salvation” will always be a world at war with itself.

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"If the teacher in question, David Paszkiewicz, were in his class telling students that that they would all go to hell unless they were Muslims worshipping Mohammed (instead of Christians worshipping Jesus), would there be even one-tenth as much support from the community for the teacher?"

ABSOLUTELY NOT! THERE WOULD BE A TEAM OF PICKETERS OUTSIDE KHS....INCLUDING MYSELF! I BELIEVE THE BOE AND MAYORS OFFICE ARE THE ONLY ONE'S WHO CAN DE-FUEL THIS SITUATION RIGHT NOW.....WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR????

[Calybos]

The U.S. was founded under Judeo-Christian principals. Our currency reflects that, as does our Pledge of Allegiance. We would be all better off if the non-believers would just shut up. 

Wow, three blatant lies in only three sentences! A new record for you, patriot! The U.S. was founded under Enlightenment principles, and the founders were largely deist--certainly not Christian. Our currency and Pledge of Allegiance were both officially updated with "god" references during the Red Scare. And our Constitution says that we're all better off if NOBODY "just shuts up." There's this pesky little First Amendment... come to think of it, that's the very amendment that allows you to be a Christian bigot without interference from government!

If you want to worship Mohammad, do it in your basement, quietly. If you believe in Mother Nature, fine, I don't want to hear it. The problem is that the atheists feel they should have "equal billing" with the christians. "It ain't gonna happen" !!

Wrong again, "patriot." Everyone is free to worship and express their faith equally under the law, no matter what that faith may be (including no faith at all). Christianity has no privileged status, as countless examples of legal and judicial precedent would show you if you bothered to do any reading. You don't want to hear it? Tough; this is America.

The screen name "patriot" has never been more ironic, given your blatant contempt for American ideals and principles.

[Guest Keith-Marshall,MO]

Yes, mice and elephants are related. They are mammals. They had a common ancestor millions of years ago. Through evolution some mammals got smalller and smaller to survive. Some got very very big. Mammoths are an example. Dinosaurs evolved into birds. Some mammals evolved to live solely in the water... whales and dolphins had ancestors that walked on land.

Here is what SCIENTIFIC THEORY MEANS:

In science, a theory is a proposed description, explanation, or model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation.

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Ok Fine, let's say that evolution is a just theory. That does not make any current religious dogma any more factual.

[Guest Steve_C]

The U.S. was founded under Judeo-Christian principals. Our currency reflects that, as does our Pledge of Allegiance. We would be all better off if the non-believers would just shut up.  If you want to worship Mohammad, do it in your basement, quietly.  If you believe in Mother Nature, fine, I don't want to hear it. The problem is that the atheists feel they should have "equal billing" with the christians. "It ain't gonna happen" !!

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Actually it was founded on the principals of democracy.

The First Amendment

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution states that:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

Together with the Free Exercise Clause, ("or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"), these two clauses make up what are commonly known as the religion clauses.

This has been interpreted as the prohibition of 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress and later, by a Supreme Court Judge, 2) the preference of one religion over another or of religion over non-religious philosophies in general.

The First Amendment GUARANTEES equal standing of non-believers with ANY religion. The government is forbidden to show preference.

Under God on was only added to the pledge and to money in the 20th century. And it doesn't say jesus does it? Or Abraham? In fact Thomas Jefferson didn't believe in any of the bibles myths. He accepted Jesus as a philosopher only... and not as the son of god.

Last time I checked Christianity isn't even mentioned in the constitution.

[Guest Paul]

The U.S. was founded under Judeo-Christian principals. Our currency reflects that, as does our Pledge of Allegiance. We would be all better off if the non-believers would just shut up.  If you want to worship Mohammad, do it in your basement, quietly.  If you believe in Mother Nature, fine, I don't want to hear it. The problem is that the atheists feel they should have "equal billing" with the christians. "It ain't gonna happen" !!

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This is false. The U.S. was founded on humanitarian principles. The framers considered and specifically rejected making this an officially Christian nation. That was re-affirmed in the Treaty of Tripoli a few years later.

No one is asking for equal billing, only equal rights. The right to worship is sacred to each individual, but obviously not to you.

It is entirely possible that one religious group will take over the US officially, but if that happens it will be the end of democracy as we have known it. What will it take for you to see this?

[Guest Guest]

The U.S. was founded under Judeo-Christian principals. Our currency reflects that, as does our Pledge of Allegiance. We would be all better off if the non-believers would just shut up.  !!

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And you conveniently ignore the fact that by telling his students that those who don't accept Christ are doomed he overlooks the Judaeo part.

Maybe YOU should just shut up until you have a logical argument.

You are consistently an idiot, consistent but an idiot non the less.

[Guest Guest]

The U.S. was founded under Judeo-Christian principals.

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Nowhere in the bible are the principles found under which our country was founded. The Constitution and religious freedom are antithetical to the bible. The founders may have been mostly christian of some sort, but you would not recognize their beliefs and they would reject yours.

Our currency reflects that, as does our Pledge of Allegiance.

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Unfortunately for your argument, our laws do not. Our laws and government reflect mostly English common law and the Roman model of government. Read the Ten Commandments you so earnestly want put up in every courtroom and school. How many are law? How many directly violate the Constitution. When you can answer those questions, and you won't, you will finally realize how wrong you are.

We would be all better off if the non-believers would just shut up.

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Thanks for showing everybody why we need a Constitution. Because of authoritarian fascist like you.

If you want to worship Mohammad, do it in your basement, quietly.

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Worshipping Mohamed would make them believers, would it not? You really aren't too bright, are you?

If you believe in Mother Nature, fine, I don't want to hear it.

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And neither do I want to hear your beliefs, especially in the classroom.

The problem is that the atheists feel they should have "equal billing" with the christians. "It ain't gonna happen" !!

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Sorry, you are more than 200 years too late to give your religion special privilages within government and society, though you will likely continue trying. How about everbody give the constitution a nice big hug. It sure keeps the hands of people like you off of our schoolchildren.

[Guest Guest]

The U.S. was founded under Judeo-Christian principals. Our currency reflects that, as does our Pledge of Allegiance. We would be all better off if the non-believers would just shut up.  If you want to worship Mohammad, do it in your basement, quietly.  If you believe in Mother Nature, fine, I don't want to hear it. The problem is that the atheists feel they should have "equal billing" with the christians. "It ain't gonna happen" !!

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And just WHERE in the Constitution or on the currency is the God identified that "under God" refers to?

Just more of your STUPID drivel with NO FACTUAL BASIS.

[Strife767]

It worked in the Dover trial.

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Haha, good answer.

[Strife767]

"species evolve into new species" ??  Sort of like Strife767 having evolved from a jackass ??  Ok, that makes sense to me.

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It's so funny to see a fundie squirm when presented with real evidence--can't muster anything but a playground insult, huh?