doc13mets
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Posts posted by doc13mets
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The Harrison/E. Newark dispatchers are doing a fantastic job and I cannot see why anyone would be critical of one of the few jobs in town that are priced right and done with great vigilence. In law emforcement, the dispatchers are the most vital link in the whole chain of response of emergency services. They are vigilent, calm, well-trained, and monitored. They must undergo frequent training, not because they are bad in any way, but do to the ever changing nature of the requests for help. If all town services were priced right and doing as well as the dispatchers, then Harrison wouldn't be in the mess it's in.
They do provide a great service and do a good job as well. Kearny could learn from this, get those cops/firefighters back into the front lines!
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you must b from kearny! harrison does ems service for east newark for years now and guess what, thet dont pay for it, harrison pays same with school system. harrison has always bailed out east newark. there is no merger idiot otherwise cops wouldnt be on the chopping block. its mutual aid service that harrison gives into, screwing their residents and benefiting the east newark folks.
harrison screws up with redbulls and you question are they nuts? really? ask any harrison dispatchers they got royally screwed by the town.their pay is additional work,liability and crap!stay in kearny please.....
In fact here is the article to prove it. And beyond the article I know it's true. East Newark pays Harrison $45,000 a year to provide the service.
Wrong again buddy!!
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you must b from kearny! harrison does ems service for east newark for years now and guess what, thet dont pay for it, harrison pays same with school system. harrison has always bailed out east newark. there is no merger idiot otherwise cops wouldnt be on the chopping block. its mutual aid service that harrison gives into, screwing their residents and benefiting the east newark folks.
harrison screws up with redbulls and you question are they nuts? really? ask any harrison dispatchers they got royally screwed by the town.their pay is additional work,liability and crap!stay in kearny please.....
wow... East Newark pays a lump yearly sum for EMS service. You have you stories all messed up. In addition to the lump sum Harrison gets paid they also bill insurance of East Newark residents and get extra money that way. And not for nothing when Harrison EMS comes to East Newark they put ENFD on standby to cover them, they end up with more fire protection then before that EMS call came in. Also the rumor was East Newark was going to buy Harrison a new ambulance and forgo the yearly payment for the next few years. But I guess that isn't going to happen now that HFD is cutting back. There goes that EMS money!!
And what does "harrison pays same with school system" mean?
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WRONG AGAIN, east newark hasnt paid crap to anyone, if that was the case the merger would be in place and cops wouldnt be laid off.east newark residents and employees are the winners in this MESS. they gained professional service and excellent dispatchers!
That makes no sense. Even if what you say is true (and it isn't), lets be reasonable would anyone provide a service that they aren't getting paid for? Why would Harrison agree to it, they would be nuts.
Anyway lets assume for one second that what you say is true. East Newark has not paid anything to Harrison for that service. How would them paying for dispatching service all of a sudden mean a merger in the police department? That makes no sense.
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Well Doc in answer to your primary question...
It's not fair, not in the least, either all towns should be allowed to have residency requirements or there should just be one state wide list, period.
Now if your not aware of it let me tell you that most politicians do not like Civil Service because it's testing and lists preclude them from picking and choosing who they'd like to have, though it doesn't completely eliminate the possibility. As an example if a favorite son scores high enough on the list maybe a few extra hires are made to get to them. Nothings perfect.
As far as your suggestion, like it or not it will be a way to circumvent the system and allow for "select placements". How about for your job in education we replace full time with part time subs at a lower rate no benefits and of course no loyalty to you or your union but beholding to the powers that be?
Would that be fair? Hiring anyone means that there's a need and therefore you go through the process that has been laid out through Civil Service.
Gov. Christie will have you believe that we are the reason for the States economic problems but our pension has been subsidizing the States budget for years and the Police and Fire ranks have been thinned by the thousands through layoffs and retirement.
Have your taxes gone down or even stabilized?
Why not?
Because the "Players" on Wall Street who are the instigators of this are still playing, but they contribute a hell of a lot more to campaign funds than you or I ever will.
This is not to say the Politicians don't have a very big hand in all of this, they do, but ultimately we all own that one because we elected them and didn't hold them accountable.
As far a Veterens preferance I do not support the current policy, I believe we should be adding maybe 5 points to their test scores not automaticly bumping them to the top, the purpose of the testing is to get the best so lets keep that in mind.
Though I see no problem with a similar policy for those that are trained Volunteer firefighters.
Want to stop the residency disparity? You and any other resident on the list should be filing a class action suit, common sense tells us it should be a slam dunk,residents like you are getting screwed and so are the Town residents no doubt about it.
Now since I'm on the subject of Hiring this one is for "Guest" though I'm sure it will fall on deaf ears.
Is it not uncommon for sons to follow in their fathers footsteps? No it's not.
The Trade Unions are full of multigenerational employees, Grandfathers, Fathers,Sons etc...
Fishermen, doctors, lawyers you name it.
As much as a Police or Firefighters son may want to follow in Dads footsteps he still has to take the test and score high enough to get hired, for every son you see on the job there's probably 5 others out there that never made it.
Which begs the question, what did your Dad do for a living? Was he raised to be hateful and disrespectful? Are you carrying on a family tradition, or starting one?
jus sayin
I agree with all of your points and responses. I have often been thinking about a class action lawsuit in the residency case.
Personally I don't think this is a way to circumvent anything. Towns from time to time contract other towns to provide services. Just because East Newark happens to not be civil service shouldn't stop anyone from discussing such a deal. East Newarks cops are paid less then Harrison cops it's just a matter of fact that East Newark employees make less, so it's a way for Harrison to benefit.
Do you agree that more paid firefighters are a better thing?
Do you agree under the current system Harrison will not hire more firefighters?
I believe you will say yes to both then why not entertain this idea?
East Newark will still have to offer a test of sorts, just like Millburn, Montclair, Cherry Hill and other such Paid non civil service towns do.
I have to say that was one of your most on point posts I've read. I guess thats what we get when we actually discuss and debate questions without just making stupid insults. Wish we could have more of this on this board!!
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Doc, with all due respect, why do you continue to support these ***wipe fraternity clowns (HFD KFD) when all they do is abuse you. Thats all they know. How to abuse the citizens while making empty threats and consistantly opening their mouths around someone they perceive as weaker. They then proceed get their but kicked in spectacular fashion while their own " brothers " look on and are afraid to even move to help. Did you notice that Hannibal Lecture, Mr. superstar Kearny woman beater fireman fan Jus Sayin, used some choice words in his post. He said that, " guys were on the list to get made." What is he talking about? Is this the Soprano's and the guys were gonna get their button and become a " made " man in the KFD Mafia. This Jus Sayin jeroff has a bigger ego than Donald Trump. He is a little piss ant frat boy in Dirtwater NJ and thinks he's the new John Gotti. Being a made man, OMG. This guy has gotta be suspended or fired by the Mayor of Kearny because he is bringing real shame to the people, unlike him, who live there.
While I believe Jus sayin's intentions are good he may not be the best PR person as sometimes his points come across the wrong way. But if you read between the lines he's trying to make a point. I don't defend any one person in this matter. I just speak to my belief that I believe Kearny and Harrison are best served with a career fire department. Fire protection makes up a small amount of the tax payers dollar in terms of % of total taxes paid. If we lost career fire protection our Fire Insurance rates will surely go up. Taxes will not be lowered that I am sure of.
Look over to North Arlington how much do they pay in taxes? Wait what? They have a volunteer department. Wow where are the tax savings there?
Kearny FD provides a great service that I would never want to see reduced.
It's a shame what is happening in Harrison. Something needs to be done, thats why I am trying to offer solutions.
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actually .your misinformed the dispatchers are not paid extra to dispatch for east newark police or fire. no savings for taxpayers and yes plenty of LIABILITY for harrison, check your facts.
I am not misinformed. I said East Newark is paying "them" to do so. By them I meant the Town of Harrison. What Harrison pays there employees to do or not to do is not of East Newarks concern.
East Newark pays Harrison to provide dispatch services.
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I keep myself close to county news and not these piss ant local Mayors and it appears that the Harrison Fire Department has a short shelf life. Ray is gonna cut out soon so then who's shoulder will you cry on? It is going to be volunteer or merged with another town with a combined much smaller budget. Their will be demotions in all ranks and less rank overall due to restructuring if it goes that way. I personally am hoping for a volunteer department with a private ambulance service taking over. One way or another, changes are in the works. Once Ray and Dollarhan are gone, thats the swan song.
This is not the best move for the safety of Harrison. Changes are in the works, but they don't have to be so drastic. If Harrison does go down to 20 odd men they would have to be cuts in the ranks but you honestly you still need rank and you still need to pay them. Those with the rank take huge liability and make life or death decisions. They should be compensated as such.
You make not think the Fire Department is needed but that just means you are oblivious to your surroundings.
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as i taxpayer i would like to know, why our dispatchers are dispatching for east newark? my understanding is that their salary comes from the police budget and yet they dispatch for another dept? whats the benefit for harrison to have them do so? more importantly, do the taxpayers pay for liability issues that arise? If the town gets nothing in exchange? why should i have to pay to service another town and keep their officers safe? SCREW THEM.......let them deal with the crap they had before!
as far as the chief becoming the director? he doesn't qualify and i would think the state would have to approve such an appointment.
Your dispatchers are dispatching East Newark Police and Fire because:
1. East Newark is paying them to do so.
2. Harrison gets more state aid for sharing services.
1+2=More money for Harrison = savings for Harrison Tax payers. yaay.
Actually if anyone does qualify that's currently employed by the town it would be him. The Fire Chief was a cop.
I think they would want to bring in an outsider though or at least I hope they would. One that would be clean of local politics.
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Great article. I personally would vote to increase taxes (with in reason) if it guaranteed public safety at the levels I have now. I've said that from day one. Unfortunately I don't think it's ever been put on the table in Harrison or Kearny.
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Well Doc I didn't want to jump in on this one but...
Simply put ENFD is a Volunteer Dept.,you wish to replace paid firefighters with paid volunteers, basicly dodging Civil Service and the tests and lists involved.
If you were next on the list to be made in Harrison and found out that instead they were going to use guys from a volunteer dept. and pay them how would you feel about that?
More to the point, that's a hell of a lawsuit in the making.
I understand your desire to become a firefighter I also assume you are a part of the ENFD.
This is not the way to do it.
And frankly I'm damned surprised that with your understanding of the fire service you'd even suggest it.
jus sayin
Let's be real hear. Harrison isn't going to hire anyone off of any list any time soon. When was the last time they hired? 6 or 7 years ago? If the next person on the list was a Kearny, Harrison or even East Newark resident I would be all for them getting hired. I do support the civil service method and the rules prescribed but unfortunately due to a lawsuit by the NCAAP back in the day Kearny and Harrison haven't been able to operate under those rules outlined for civil service procedures. They no longer can have a residency preference which makes the process unfair.
Unfair how... well why is it fair that a Jersey City or Newark resident can be put on a hiring list in the town where I have grown up my whole life and I can't be put on theirs?
For that one reason I believe the Civil Service hiring rules are unfair.
And how do you think it felt to be the next guy on Harrison's FD list back when the Jackson Volunteer Fire Department's paid drivers were hired through the Rice Bill?
I am for all Civil Service protections once hired though.
I myself currently it would be an extremely difficult decision to make to be a paid firefighter for East Newark under the plan I proposed. I would be taking a pay cut for one in the 10's of thousands. In my current job I don't pay a dime for my health care and I also get a pension which I do not contribute and I just got vested in that.
I would like to see Kearny and Harrison firefighters be from Kearny and Harrison and well maybe even East Newark. Otherwise you get some people who make statements such as "Why would I take one foot in that firehouse if they aren't paying me." I hope and truely believe the majority of the newer guys aren't like that but one bad apple spoiled my taste of them. (Especially considering I pay his salary)
Beyond that I personally think all volunteer firefighters should get preference right along with Military Vets for performing a civil duty.
Back when North Hudson regionalized a few guys from the Volunteer department through a law suit were immediately hired. So it's not unreal. But my plan is much much different as the newly hired firefighters would not be Harrison employees.
But never mind all of that.
There is a serious problem in Harrison. The problem is in the near future there will not be able to provide adequate fire protection for themselves. I really don't know how it got so bad so quick. But the fact is it is bad and something needs to be done.
Contracting another town for additional fire protection is not illegal and is done all over the country and I'm sure there are cases of it in NJ. The town they contract the service from how they hire is not of the other towns concern as long as they provide what they are being contracted for.
I'm simply offering a suggestion to help increase paid fire protection in Harrison because I believe there is a need for it. Under the current system and contracts in Harrison it's just not going to happen and that's pretty much a fact.
If Harrison decides to forgo that I believe there only other alternative would be to create their own Volunteer Department which I don't believe is the best thing for Harrison because oppose to contrary belief they are a busy town.
I don't want to see any Harrison Firefighter or Police officer lose their job. All the guys I've come to know and meet are all good guys. They do care about their job and their community.
The one thing I do know about the fire service is the advantages of a career department. I want to see that continue in West Hudson. The way things are sounding though the 40+ man department of Harrison is going to be history. When they are down to 20 odd men do you feel confident the residents will be protected? I know those guys will do their damn best, but its not fair to the residents who pay what they pay in taxes.
I'm thinking outside the box here and trying to provide viable solutions to the problem. If you recall a year ago when they were first faced with layoffs I suggestion a decrease in the amount of captains and the creation of the lieutenant rank to help save jobs. That was thinking outside the box.
The only other idea I ever hear is "Make Harrison volunteer" and then they make some jokes about lobsters and a big purple dinosaur. It drives me nuts.
I ask Harrison's Bravest and Jus' sayin to offer up some real solutions of their own to increase or at least preserve (at today's levels) Harrison's fire protection while cutting budgets the way Harrison Mayor and Council are doing.
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It's wonderful that you're college educated. I'm also college educated and an expert in fire service administration. I won't suggest ways for you to improve your work in the education field because I'm not qualified to do so. You might want to keep your opinions about things you know nothing about to yourself(with all due respect).
I've always supported the Fire Service. As many people on this site know I believe that Harrison and Kearny need fully staffed paid fire departments. I will continue to argue on that side even if one Harrison firefighter believe me to be from some "enemy camp".
With all due respect not only do I hold a Bachelor of Arts from a University in this state. I also am quite educated (formally) in the fire service field. If I wasn't I probably would be one of those people that claim Harrison should have volunteers get rid of all those paid guys. So I will keep commenting on fire related topics.
With all due respect. You still haven't pointed out any major flaws in my initial proposal. Again my proposal does not support layoffs of any kind. But offers a viable option for Harrison to continue with a fully paid fire service for their residents. Let's be real, Kearny would lose out on a merge (coverage wise) and so would East Newark (financially). But contracting East Newark to provide additional paid coverage once the next batch of guys retire is a potential solution. Let's be real. Harrison isn't going to replace those guys.
So lets have a real debate about this. Point out flaws and offer compromise and solutions. Hell maybe we can come up with some plan that works well and maybe the respective town administrators read this and get some good ideas.
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Hey Doc, I think you need to stick to what you know best, flipping burgers.
If you really are a Harrison Firefighter that is sad. You guys should big bigger then stupid insults. You have worked hard to be where you are and offer a vital service to your town. You didn't actually respond to my proposal though. Didn't give another suggestion. Didn't offer any reasons why my idea wouldn't work. You just made an insult. How about you grow up, pay attention to what's going on in this state and around the country and figure out a way to help the situation and keep the citizens safe at the same time. I give anyone credit for at least coming up with ideas. Even bad ones. But just making stupid remarks and insulting people doesn't help anything.
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One thing is certain the Harrison FD’s days are numbered. It’s really sad. They were a great department and still to this day have a number of great firefighters. Unfortunately the economy has shifted and the town continues to make cuts across the board. The FD being one of the biggest line items gets cut multiple times a year. Harrison is not safe without a fully funded/paid fire department. Harrison residents deserve and need at least 1 Engine, 1 Ladder and 2 EMS crews protecting them at all times. They are a service orientated department and do a lot more than just fight fires.
I keep hearing about how health insurance costs are going to skyrocket and a number of guys will retire and there is no plan to replace any of them.
They need to be replaced somehow and someway and volunteers in Harrison aren’t the simple answer. It’s not an overnight process.
One thing I’ve learned in my West Hudson days is that East Newark provides similar services to Harrison except cheaper. Think about their respective police departments. Do you feel safer with 2 cops always on duty in a .1 square mile town, yes POINT ONE (that’s one tenth of a square mile for our Harrison High graduates). Relax the Harrison High comment was a joke, now back to business. Or do you feel safer in Harrison with the 2-3 patrol officers on duty? I’ll take East Newark any day of the week. Both are paid police departments that offer the same service. See what I mean? Ok so here it is. I’m not saying Harrison should merge with East Newark for fire protection services, but I believe they should consider contracting them to offer a fully paid engine or ladder company to supplement the retirees that they will not replace. Harrison would pay a lump sum to East Newark to offer this protection. (It’s not unheard of tons of towns all over the country are contracting their neighbors to offer fire protection) With this lump sum (which would be lower then what Harrison would pay for a fully manned engine company) East Newark could hire and staff one company 24/7. East Newark would benefit because they could make some money off the deal (as they would pay substantially lower salaries than Harrison, an example ENPD vs HPD salaries) and save Harrison money at the same time. Also you get local residents who care about the communities and still live around here to be paid firefighters, who could also be volunteers still in their off duty hours.
No service reduction would happen in fact coverage would increase at a lower cost then what it is today.
The end result would be keeping HFD running out of one station with EMS and say a Ladder and East Newark paid guys running out of their HQ or Cleveland Ave. They would be automatically responding to any call in Harrison as that’s what they are contracted to do.
This is not a suggestion to replace any Harrison Firefighters job, nor a plan to replace the paid guys with volunteers. This is merely a suggestion to increase the amount of paid firefighters in the area and at a substantially lower cost.
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yes but now the crackheads are cutting officers from the barely there dept to save on money?? not the fire dept who are a barrel of lazy well feed on your tax dollars f*cks. nor the dept heads with the limitless accounts including several secretaries who do nothing all day. oh yeah besides ***** **** ** ***** *****. and the new treasurer who clearly is a token for crackheads to score money till they retire and head to south jersey for good. yeah thanks sooooooo much ahole j off's
Apparently they will not need to lay off firefighter because a number of the guys are expected to retire and there is no plan to hire any additional.
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word is another 10+ harrison firefighters are retiring (including the chief) in the next few months - all thanks to the Gov. with the threat of making them pay 30% more for health/benifits. it will make sense for harrison to shutdown the firehouse on cleveland ave and run 1 engine and 1 ladder truck with the ambulances out of headquarters. maybe they should then sell the engine from cleveland ave to east newark since east newark pretty much covers harrison almost on a daily basis anyway (((do the harrison tax paying residents know this? YES, harrison fd is so stretched thin that east newark volunteers gets paged almost on a daily basis to cover the town of harrison and respond to calls ..))) can you imagine how much thinner the dept will be after the 10-15 retirements coming soon..its a very bad thing considering the harrison fd is busier than what alot of people think
--i support the fd and beleive we need career depts but stretching the dept very thin with only 2 guys on each truck doesn't sound safe considering the laws put in place at the national level say a requirement of at least 4 is mandatory. *****pad lock cleveland ave and beef up hq*****
It's shocking to hear that they won't replace these retiring FF's. They are already at an all time low. Why not bring new guys in under a new contract. One with a little lower pay and a bigger share of benifits? You could get a lot of people to do the job for a little less. Lets keep as much of the paid department as we can.
But if those guys leave and no replacements are found sounds like the town should shut down Cleveland Ave. Go with everything at HQ's hopefully have a Ladder/Engine/Ambulance manned each day.
There are lots of different ways Harrison can save money and keep a paid fd. I could think of 3 feasibile ways off the tope of my head and I'm sure there are other idea's as well.
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So be scared to call a spade a spade, or they comming to get you. LOL This Forum is a joke, this website is a joke, go to Heniz's deli , at least there you can gossip with out all the games.
I've lived in Kearny my whole life and never made it over to Heniz's deli in Harrison. I hear I am missing out on some pretty great sandwiches. Do they have a combo deal or something for gossip?
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Since when is hiring teenages to WORK for the summer considered a free ride? Working is not a free ride unless you just lounge at the Fire Department. When college students intern at companies in the summer in order to get a permanent position at that company is that a free ride? Hiring the teenagers to work for the summer is a great way to introduce them into the future at whatever their occupation will be, keeps them out of trouble, and gives their parents a little relief. They can pay for activities or things they want themselves while getting a sense of pride that they earned the money through their own hard work. How can you be so bitter and angry at life that you want to take out your frustrations on the children? I applaud the effort for providing summer employment.
See your post was actually solid and I agree with almost everything. Why do people feel the need to pull in firefighters with every argument. The provide a crucial service and we are lucky enough to have a great department. You can make a point without having to jab at other groups.
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I Know and You Know that we do not need these summer jobs. If you want to help the youth of the town--the kids who actually play in the playgrounds--hire the people being furloughed to sit in the playgrounds and supervise the activities. Why add to the payroll when you can help the people who have lost or are being given less hours to work.
If you had those people open the gates and work in the playground you would lose so much more money. The young people that are doing this are getting paid something like $7 and change. The people you propose to do this would get paid at a much higher rate. Finacially this is the right move for the town.
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No argument here but the PD has to be first, it's the easiest to do. Disband the entire dept. Kearny can select 20 or so of the present cops if they so choose to avoid the cost of training. The station can be taken over by the town hall. The town immediately saves millions, plus as promised, the state will give aid to towns that merge and civil service is eliminated. A win-win for both towns and taxpayers.
Agreed. How many cops does Harrison have right now?
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OK I think we can all agree the pension thing is a mess.
People are saying that we should basically through the FF's/PO's pensions right out the window, well thats no the solution really either. A lot of these guys are working towards retirement and have a certain expectation in mind. We can just cut them all together. Now if we say we are going to reduce benefits for people in the system that are like 15 years away at least they can start making those adjustments to better prepare for retirement.
Interesting article about the future of state aid and shared services
Could this force Harrison, Kearny and East Newark to merge services such as DPW, FD, PD? If they towns got on the same page and made sure there was no reduction in front line manpower only a reduction in the supervisors we could save a big chunk of change. Also eliminating the Civil Service will allow West Hudson Residents to get some preference and be hired in the FD/PD. Wouldn't that be nice?
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I'm not a fireman, you moron. The days of each and every town having their own police and fire depts. are coming to an end, and harrison is next. As I said before, Kearny hires 20 or so cops to cover one square mile of Harrison, Harrison pays all costs associated with these hirings plus overtime
and still saves millions.
After the police dept is up and running, the fire dept's should also be investigated for consolidation or merging, but that is more complicated because of the need to keep fire apparatus in Harrison.
The first target has to be the PD because that's the easiest to do.
Not so complicated. You could even keep the current Harrison Fire Locations. Engine 3 on Cleveland and the Ladder at HQ with 2 EMS units. You consolidate the FD keep the line firefighter/officers and just eliminate the administrative staff, chief officers and training officer. Kearny can take care of that.
HFD
in Harrison
Posted
The problem isn't the wages of new hires at all. They get paid peanuts. It's the wages of those that are at the top steps.
And I agree with you that laid off firefighters should be at the top of all hiring lists.
I know you never represented yourself as a PR guy. But as you know once you identify yourself from a specific department and speak publically you automatically get labeled as such (even if that's unfair). I was just trying to point out sometimes you may say something which sounds odd (just because of the way you approach the matter or phrase it) but you are always on point.
I'm sick of "guests" comments as well. They hold little weight.