Pity the poor atheist.

[Guest Kearny Christian]

It must be a sad life for an atheist. Think about it. An atheist goes through life thinking his life is meaningless, he's just another life form that lived and died. He's never known the joy of faith and knowing the love of being a Christian. Is it any wonder that

all their postings here are angry and derogatory.

[Guest Guest]

It must be a sad life for an atheist. Think about it. An atheist goes through life thinking his life is meaningless, he's just another life form that lived and died. He's never known the joy of faith and knowing the love of being a Christian. Is it any wonder that

all their postings here are angry and derogatory.

Oh my, that's not true at all. You may think our lives are meaningless but we don't. We see beauty in the world, maybe more clearly than you do. The Dalai Lama doesn't believe in God and he is one of the happiest and most spiritual people I've ever seen. I used to believe in what you call God but I stopped when I realized that I was just forcing it, and since then, I'm much happier. I don't have to pretend to fit things together that just don't fit.

I've met people from many religious traditions, and people who had no religious tradition. You can't tell who is going to be happy just based on that. Happiness comes from within.

You should never comment on something you don't understand. Most atheists don't say there is no god. We just admit the fact that there isn't any evidence of a god. And it is a fact. There isn't any evidence for it. So we can live our lives content in the knowledge that we're living to the fullest and being honest, and that whatever will be, will be. We can't control it. To paraphrase one of your prayers, we choose to live with the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, the courage to change the things we can and the wisdom to know the difference. I don't mind at all that the prayer comes from a Christian. There's wisdom to be found in many places but you have to have your eyes and your heart open.

[Guest Guest]

It must be a sad life for an atheist. Think about it. An atheist goes through life thinking his life is meaningless, he's just another life form that lived and died. He's never known the joy of faith and knowing the love of being a Christian. Is it any wonder that

all their postings here are angry and derogatory.

Aren't you quite the example for us all. Certainly glad you're not angry and derogatory.

[Guest Guest]

It must be a sad life for an atheist. Think about it. An atheist goes through life thinking his life is meaningless, he's just another life form that lived and died. He's never known the joy of faith and knowing the love of being a Christian. Is it any wonder that

all their postings here are angry and derogatory.

Could you be more arrogant? You don't know what another person's life is like.

As a Christian, this is offensive. Please do not presume to speak for us.

[Guest Kearny Christian]

Could you be more arrogant? You don't know what another person's life is like.

As a Christian, this is offensive. Please do not presume to speak for us.

I don't presume to speak for anyone, only myself. In my view, atheists are angry people. Consider the billboards mocking God that atheists have been posting on highways. They are certainly angry and mean spirited. It also displays a sense of insecurity in what they believe. Call me arrogant or whatever you want, these are the facts.

[Guest Guest]

Could you be more arrogant? You don't know what another person's life is like.

As a Christian, this is offensive. Please do not presume to speak for us.

I don't presume to speak for anyone, only myself. In my view, atheists are angry people. Consider the billboards mocking God that atheists have been posting on highways. They are certainly angry and mean spirited. It also displays a sense of insecurity in what they believe. Call me arrogant or whatever you want, these are the facts.

"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.". You lose.

[Guest Guest]

Oh my, that's not true at all. You may think our lives are meaningless but we don't. We see beauty in the world, maybe more clearly than you do. The Dalai Lama doesn't believe in God and he is one of the happiest and most spiritual people I've ever seen. I used to believe in what you call God but I stopped when I realized that I was just forcing it, and since then, I'm much happier. I don't have to pretend to fit things together that just don't fit.

Most Christians, and most people who believe in any kind of god, can't seem to get it through their heads that knowing the answer the ultimate questions is just not how things are. Why can't they just accept the fact that all of reality, especially its origins, is a mystery?

[Guest Guest]

I don't presume to speak for anyone, only myself. In my view, atheists are angry people. Consider the billboards mocking God that atheists have been posting on highways. They are certainly angry and mean spirited. It also displays a sense of insecurity in what they believe. Call me arrogant or whatever you want, these are the facts.

(Cleaned it up as best I could.)

I want to think the best of you but either you do not recall your own words, or you're being dishonest. Your opening post said nothing about billboards. The first part of it implied that all atheists think their lives are meaningless, which is a categorical statement, and a false one. That categorical statement is no more justified than the categorical statement that all Christians are arrogant and self-entitled, though some of them are, just as some atheists are angry and mean-spirited. I don't care for the in-your-face atheist billboards and I also don't care for the in-your-face Christian billboards that warn people about going to hell or imply that Christians own the country. But as a categorical, neither statement is true, so you shouldn't make it. Many Christians, especially those who highly value the spiritual aspects of Christianity - the love, the joy, faith (things you mention but do not seem to understand very well) - surely will take offense at your writing that way, especially under the name "Kearny Christian."

The second part of your post argues that the atheists who post here are angry and mean-spirited because they have "never known the joy and faith and knowing the love of being a Christian." That statement is supremely arrogant. You do not know the atheists who are posting here, do you? You don't know how much joy, love and even faith they experience, or how spiritually they may live. What if God thinks they sit higher-up at the spiritual table than you do? So in that post at least, the anger and mean-spiritedness is coming from you. It is also a presumptuous statement because you are commenting on the inner lives of people you do not even know; and even if you did know them, that is not the kind of statement that a joyful and loving person is given to making.

Now let's discuss insecurity. Of course you see atheists as angry people. You don't agree with them. You seem to think they are rejecting God, when all they're really doing is not accepting your story about God. There are many ways of looking at God. Unfortunately, you only seem to understand one of them, and a narrow one at that. Some of our greatest minds have conceived of God as an expression of all that is real. They don't imagine a personal history being attached to God, as you find in the Bible, literally interpreted. Einstein held that view, and so have many others. He used the word "God" but made it very clear that he was not referring a personal god, belief in which he called naive. So when you continue on and on about your beliefs, as though everyone should share them, then revert to saying "I don't presume to speak for anyone, only myself," I have to wonder why you insist on pushing your religious views here and on the Town of Kearny through its holiday display, if you're only speaking for yourself. Speak for yourself all you like but don't paint it as the supreme and ultimate truth in the very next sentence, or ever.

I've seen quite a few posts from atheists here. Some of them have been excellent, even brilliant. I have also seen quite a few posts from Christians here. Some of them have been excellent too, but on the whole, the Christians who have posted here have not acquitted themselves well up against the atheists. In the main, the atheists here have engaged on the merits, have stayed on point, have given reasons for their views and have supported those views with facts where appropriate. In the main, the Christians here have not. Case in point: I think it was "2smart4u" who opened a topic a month or so ago sneering in his usual un-Christian fashion at scientists, and challenging people to explain how the universe came to exist without God. Someone else, who may or may not have been an atheist, made the point that 2smart's argument is illogical and doesn't get you anywhere, because if you follow the logic of it, then you would have to be able to explain where God came from. So then a topic was opened asking the question, "who created God." One of the Christians here said he knew the answer but wouldn't give it until someone answered which came first, the chicken or the egg. That answer to chicken-egg was given but of course, neither 2smart not anyone else has answered "who created God" because no one can answer it. So the person who said he was going to answer the question apparently was being dishonest, and in addition to that, Christianity was represented here by an illogical argument called "God in the gaps" that cannot be defended. Now maybe you don't think along those lines but well-educated people who care about philosophy, which is a search for truth, do care. I see beauty in that. Do you? And if you don't, then maybe you're missing something and should go back to school, as it were, before presuming to tell people about the inner lives of people you don't even know.

Now maybe that's more than you care to read at one time. But the problem with that is that life isn't always cut and dried. Sometimes you have to get into depth and detail. I'll be happy to have a respectful and intelligent dialogue with you; there's a glimmer of that in your latest post, #5. But only a glimmer, so far. If you're going to discuss these subjects in a way that thoughtful people will respect, you'll have to do better than that. It's up to you.

[Guest Guest]

I could call you quite a few things, KC, but I'll be nice. You guys are the ones who think you have a mission to save the world. The Great Commission, remember? Unfortunately, some of you take it seriously, and so you run around pushing your religion on anyone who won't run away. But just trying having a serious discussion with one of your evangelists sometime. You have to put yourself in a non-Christian's shoes to understand this. If you could do that, you would remember all the defensive walls Christian evangelists throw up to defend your religion. And yes, that's pretty much all of them who evangelize Christian theology as a literal truth, because you have end up rationalizing the story at some point: it doesn't hold together. This is called apologetics because essentially Christian literalists evangelists are for their beliefs: trying to justifying believing in things they know there is no good reason to believe. Deep down, they know they're just buying into a story someone made up centuries ago. Could your stories about a virgin birth, talking animals and collecting all the animal species on Earth and housing them on a boat for more than a month be true: not unless the laws of nature were suspended. The point is, there's no good reason to believe that they are true. Deep down, to one degree or another, everyone knows that.

But you Christians have been convinced that your lives are defined by believing in that collection of stories. So naturally, you're defensive when anyone challenges them. And if you allow any doubt to creep in, then of course you're going to have some insecurity about a world view that doesn't quite hold together somehow.

I can only speak for atheism as I live it. Atheism is the absence of an affirmative believe in a god or gods. It's being without such a belief. Theism is a belief in a god, so atheism is the lack of such a belief.

This does not mean that I believe in nothing. Just the opposite, I believe in all good human values: Love, kindness, generosity, service, compassion, reason, humility - a very long list. I also believe in your ability to reason and change your mind but you have to be willing to do it, you have to be honest with yourself, and you have to open yourself fully to seeking a higher truth. Whether I've done it well or poorly, that is what my atheism is about, only I don't call it atheism because it's not about not believing in a god. I don't believe in unicorns either but I don't call myself an a-unicornist. Best word to put on it: I'm a humanist.

You can refuse to accept that but if you truly practice the kindness attributed to Jesus of Nazareth, then you will take me at my word about what I believe and how I live, and take it from there.

[Guest Guest]

KC, people tend to get angry when they don't like what is going on. You've displayed anger here quite a few times, mainly when other people don't share or promote your religious views.

I can only imagine that if I lived in a country where the majority of people not only did not share my religion but put it down, I might be angry and defensive too. And in addition to that, if I truly believed that the majority was fantasizing and asking me and everyone else to go along with it, I can see how anger could be justified. Remember, Jesus was angry with the money-changers, so much that he resorted to violence to send them out. If an atheist is doing what he truly believes is right, I have to respect that. I am not their judge, and neither, with all due respect, are you.

[Guest Kearny Christian]

I want to think the best of you but either you do not recall your own words, or you're being dishonest. Your opening post said nothing about billboards. The first part of it implied that all atheists think their lives are meaningless, which is a categorical statement, and a false one. That categorical statement is no more justified than the categorical statement that all Christians are arrogant and self-entitled, though some of them are, just as some atheists are angry and mean-spirited. I don't care for the in-your-face atheist billboards and I also don't care for the in-your-face Christian billboards that warn people about going to hell or imply that Christians own the country. But as a categorical, neither statement is true, so you shouldn't make it. Many Christians, especially those who highly value the spiritual aspects of Christianity - the love, the joy, faith (things you mention but do not seem to understand very well) - surely will take offense at your writing that way, especially under the name "Kearny Christian."

The second part of your post argues that the atheists who post here are angry and mean-spirited because they have "never known the joy and faith and knowing the love of being a Christian." That statement is supremely arrogant. You do not know the atheists who are posting here, do you? You don't know how much joy, love and even faith they experience, or how spiritually they may live. What if God thinks they sit higher-up at the spiritual table than you do? So in that post at least, the anger and mean-spiritedness is coming from you. It is also a presumptuous statement because you are commenting on the inner lives of people you do not even know; and even if you did know them, that is not the kind of statement that a joyful and loving person is given to making.

Now let's discuss insecurity. Of course you see atheists as angry people. You don't agree with them. You seem to think they are rejecting God, when all they're really doing is not accepting your story about God. There are many ways of looking at God. Unfortunately, you only seem to understand one of them, and a narrow one at that. Some of our greatest minds have conceived of God as an expression of all that is real. They don't imagine a personal history being attached to God, as you find in the Bible, literally interpreted. Einstein held that view, and so have many others. He used the word "God" but made it very clear that he was not referring a personal god, belief in which he called naive. So when you continue on and on about your beliefs, as though everyone should share them, then revert to saying "I don't presume to speak for anyone, only myself," I have to wonder why you insist on pushing your religious views here and on the Town of Kearny through its holiday display, if you're only speaking for yourself. Speak for yourself all you like but don't paint it as the supreme and ultimate truth in the very next sentence, or ever.

I've seen quite a few posts from atheists here. Some of them have been excellent, even brilliant. I have also seen quite a few posts from Christians here. Some of them have been excellent too, but on the whole, the Christians who have posted here have not acquitted themselves well up against the atheists. In the main, the atheists here have engaged on the merits, have stayed on point, have given reasons for their views and have supported those views with facts where appropriate. In the main, the Christians here have not. Case in point: I think it was "2smart4u" who opened a topic a month or so ago sneering in his usual un-Christian fashion at scientists, and challenging people to explain how the universe came to exist without God. Someone else, who may or may not have been an atheist, made the point that 2smart's argument is illogical and doesn't get you anywhere, because if you follow the logic of it, then you would have to be able to explain where God came from. So then a topic was opened asking the question, "who created God." One of the Christians here said he knew the answer but wouldn't give it until someone answered which came first, the chicken or the egg. That answer to chicken-egg was given but of course, neither 2smart not anyone else has answered "who created God" because no one can answer it. So the person who said he was going to answer the question apparently was being dishonest, and in addition to that, Christianity was represented here by an illogical argument called "God in the gaps" that cannot be defended. Now maybe you don't think along those lines but well-educated people who care about philosophy, which is a search for truth, do care. I see beauty in that. Do you? And if you don't, then maybe you're missing something and should go back to school, as it were, before presuming to tell people about the inner lives of people you don't even know.

Now maybe that's more than you care to read at one time. But the problem with that is that life isn't always cut and dried. Sometimes you have to get into depth and detail. I'll be happy to have a respectful and intelligent dialogue with you; there's a glimmer of that in your latest post, #5. But only a glimmer, so far. If you're going to discuss these subjects in a way that thoughtful people will respect, you'll have to do better than that. It's up to you

Looks like I got the atheists all stirred up. I'm not trying to convert anyone to Christianity and I understand that all atheists aren't angry and mean spirited. But there is a fringe element among atheists that is angry and mean spirited (highway billboards) and they are the basis of my angry lable. This is nothing new, the anti-Christian billboards have been appearing for a number of years now, so apparently their anger is deep-seated. So I'll stand by my original post that I feel sorry for these hateful people who are willing to spend money on billboards to spew their angry and mean-spirited rhetoric. They would be better served by donating their billboard money to a charitable organization.

[Guest Guest]

I want to think the best of you but either you do not recall your own words, or you're being dishonest. Your opening post said nothing about billboards. The first part of it implied that all atheists think their lives are meaningless, which is a categorical statement, and a false one. That categorical statement is no more justified than the categorical statement that all Christians are arrogant and self-entitled, though some of them are, just as some atheists are angry and mean-spirited. I don't care for the in-your-face atheist billboards and I also don't care for the in-your-face Christian billboards that warn people about going to hell or imply that Christians own the country. But as a categorical, neither statement is true, so you shouldn't make it. Many Christians, especially those who highly value the spiritual aspects of Christianity - the love, the joy, faith (things you mention but do not seem to understand very well) - surely will take offense at your writing that way, especially under the name "Kearny Christian."

The second part of your post argues that the atheists who post here are angry and mean-spirited because they have "never known the joy and faith and knowing the love of being a Christian." That statement is supremely arrogant. You do not know the atheists who are posting here, do you? You don't know how much joy, love and even faith they experience, or how spiritually they may live. What if God thinks they sit higher-up at the spiritual table than you do? So in that post at least, the anger and mean-spiritedness is coming from you. It is also a presumptuous statement because you are commenting on the inner lives of people you do not even know; and even if you did know them, that is not the kind of statement that a joyful and loving person is given to making.

Now let's discuss insecurity. Of course you see atheists as angry people. You don't agree with them. You seem to think they are rejecting God, when all they're really doing is not accepting your story about God. There are many ways of looking at God. Unfortunately, you only seem to understand one of them, and a narrow one at that. Some of our greatest minds have conceived of God as an expression of all that is real. They don't imagine a personal history being attached to God, as you find in the Bible, literally interpreted. Einstein held that view, and so have many others. He used the word "God" but made it very clear that he was not referring a personal god, belief in which he called naive. So when you continue on and on about your beliefs, as though everyone should share them, then revert to saying "I don't presume to speak for anyone, only myself," I have to wonder why you insist on pushing your religious views here and on the Town of Kearny through its holiday display, if you're only speaking for yourself. Speak for yourself all you like but don't paint it as the supreme and ultimate truth in the very next sentence, or ever.

I've seen quite a few posts from atheists here. Some of them have been excellent, even brilliant. I have also seen quite a few posts from Christians here. Some of them have been excellent too, but on the whole, the Christians who have posted here have not acquitted themselves well up against the atheists. In the main, the atheists here have engaged on the merits, have stayed on point, have given reasons for their views and have supported those views with facts where appropriate. In the main, the Christians here have not. Case in point: I think it was "2smart4u" who opened a topic a month or so ago sneering in his usual un-Christian fashion at scientists, and challenging people to explain how the universe came to exist without God. Someone else, who may or may not have been an atheist, made the point that 2smart's argument is illogical and doesn't get you anywhere, because if you follow the logic of it, then you would have to be able to explain where God came from. So then a topic was opened asking the question, "who created God." One of the Christians here said he knew the answer but wouldn't give it until someone answered which came first, the chicken or the egg. That answer to chicken-egg was given but of course, neither 2smart not anyone else has answered "who created God" because no one can answer it. So the person who said he was going to answer the question apparently was being dishonest, and in addition to that, Christianity was represented here by an illogical argument called "God in the gaps" that cannot be defended. Now maybe you don't think along those lines but well-educated people who care about philosophy, which is a search for truth, do care. I see beauty in that. Do you? And if you don't, then maybe you're missing something and should go back to school, as it were, before presuming to tell people about the inner lives of people you don't even know.

Now maybe that's more than you care to read at one time. But the problem with that is that life isn't always cut and dried. Sometimes you have to get into depth and detail. I'll be happy to have a respectful and intelligent dialogue with you; there's a glimmer of that in your latest post, #5. But only a glimmer, so far. If you're going to discuss these subjects in a way that thoughtful people will respect, you'll have to do better than that. It's up to you

Looks like I got the atheists all stirred up. I'm not trying to convert anyone to Christianity and I understand that all atheists aren't angry and mean spirited. But there is a fringe element among atheists that is angry and mean spirited (highway billboards) and they are the basis of my angry lable. This is nothing new, the anti-Christian billboards have been appearing for a number of years now, so apparently their anger is deep-seated. So I'll stand by my original post that I feel sorry for these hateful people who are willing to spend money on billboards to spew their angry and mean-spirited rhetoric. They would be better served by donating their billboard money to a charitable organization.

That is self-justifying and snotty answer to a very thoughtful response, so shame on you for starters. You got called on some categorical statements. Instead of apologizing, or even walking them back, you post again as though you had written nothing wrong, and as though you had said you were only complaining about "a fringe element among atheists." That's not what you wrote originally.

There's no crime in making a mistake. Have the character to admit that you overstated your case, and made vile statements about atheists as a whole. Admit also that there is as high a percentage of angry and mean-spirited Christians as there is within any other group.

Finally, why can none of you on your side of this argument post properly? Are you the same person using several different names? Either way, please clean up your posts. I cleaned this one up for you. It's not at all hard to do.

[Guest Guest]

Looks like I got the atheists all stirred up. I'm not trying to convert anyone to Christianity and I understand that all atheists aren't angry and mean spirited. But there is a fringe element among atheists that is angry and mean spirited (highway billboards) and they are the basis of my angry lable. This is nothing new, the anti-Christian billboards have been appearing for a number of years now, so apparently their anger is deep-seated. So I'll stand by my original post that I feel sorry for these hateful people who are willing to spend money on billboards to spew their angry and mean-spirited rhetoric. They would be better served by donating their billboard money to a charitable organization.

There's no reason for anyone to take you seriously when you can't even post properly. When you post from a quote, a box appears with the quotation in it. Type your comments below the box. And if you make a mistake, it's easily fixed, as above.

Even with the billboard thing, you're going overboard. American Atheists is an in-your-face, take-no-prisoners atheist group, as reflected by their billboards and other public statements. Other atheist groups are more moderate, and even AA has put up some pretty good billboards. One of them said "you know it's a myth." The obvious reference was to the Christian Christmas narrative, since the billboard went up in December. Seeing it, quite a few people probably said "you know, they're right, I do know it's just a myth." You could look at that billboard as being rude, or you can look at it as fighting back against something they see as very damaging to society. You fight back against things you think are harmful, don't you? Well, that's what they're doing. And they're not harming anyone. Are they angry? Perhaps but so are you. Sometimes anger is justified and a good thing.

Also, why do Christians insist on putting up billboards that effectively tell everyone that we are all supposed to believe in Jesus, especially when part of their story is that you burn in hell forever if you don't agree? Quite a few Christians evangelize their beliefs with this passive-aggressive behavior, presenting the warm-and-cuddly image of the adorable baby as the face for a theology that says you're going to burn in hell forever if you don't believe it. At least the AA atheists are consistent.

If you're going to bring this stuff public, it's going to get ugly. Religion is a subject on which people disagree, strongly. So on the one hand, you have to choose between what you think is God's command to you, via the so-called Great Commission; and peace in your community and our broader communities. You're trying to serve two masters, something your own theology tells you not to do. The atheist doesn't have that problem. He realizes that if you want peace, then seek peace. There's no need for a story in the middle.

Personally, I admit to being kinda cranky about how much time we waste arguing over something no one knows anything about. When you add to that the numerous groups of people who claim that they absolutely do know the answer, only they don't agree with each other about what the answer is, you get a very big problem. I think that's what the atheists are saying, and they have a good point.

[Guest Guest]

The problem is the sanctimonious assholes on BOTH sides.... the Christians who temper every single thing they say with professions of Faith, and the Athiests who heap scorn on ANYONE who isnt an Atheist as some sort of intellectual inferior. Christians, Im happy you're happy and secure in what you believe..good for you, You have the right to do so, but you also manage to piss off everyone around you with it. Believe what you want..but STFU. Athiests... yeah we get it, you're "Avove all that" Pro-tip...You're even MORE of an asshole than the Christians.. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindis, most of the Proselytizing is out of a concern for the souls of their fellow humans... YOU guys just think everyone who believes anything is an Idiot..which is WHY you're an asshole....They are assholes for a reason...hardcore Atheists are assholes solely for the sake of BEING assholes to everyone around them. Sadly whenever this subject comes up, it ends up being an Asshole Fight, because its the extremes of both sides who engage.

[Guest Guest]

The problem is the sanctimonious assholes on BOTH sides.... the Christians who temper every single thing they say with professions of Faith, and the Athiests who heap scorn on ANYONE who isnt an Atheist as some sort of intellectual inferior. Christians, Im happy you're happy and secure in what you believe..good for you, You have the right to do so, but you also manage to piss off everyone around you with it. Believe what you want..but STFU. Athiests... yeah we get it, you're "Avove all that" Pro-tip...You're even MORE of an asshole than the Christians.. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindis, most of the Proselytizing is out of a concern for the souls of their fellow humans... YOU guys just think everyone who believes anything is an Idiot..which is WHY you're an asshole....They are assholes for a reason...hardcore Atheists are assholes solely for the sake of BEING assholes to everyone around them. Sadly whenever this subject comes up, it ends up being an Asshole Fight, because its the extremes of both sides who engage.

Best thing about your post is, I can't tell what religion you subscribe to, if any.

Worst thing about it is, there's more to it than what you say.

[Guest Guest]

The problem is the sanctimonious assholes on BOTH sides.... the Christians who temper every single thing they say with professions of Faith, and the Athiests who heap scorn on ANYONE who isnt an Atheist as some sort of intellectual inferior. Christians, Im happy you're happy and secure in what you believe..good for you, You have the right to do so, but you also manage to piss off everyone around you with it. Believe what you want..but STFU. Athiests... yeah we get it, you're "Avove all that" Pro-tip...You're even MORE of an asshole than the Christians.. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindis, most of the Proselytizing is out of a concern for the souls of their fellow humans... YOU guys just think everyone who believes anything is an Idiot..which is WHY you're an asshole....They are assholes for a reason...hardcore Atheists are assholes solely for the sake of BEING assholes to everyone around them. Sadly whenever this subject comes up, it ends up being an Asshole Fight, because its the extremes of both sides who engage.

Of course there are assholes on both sides. There are also assholes who just don't want to be bothered, so they put themselves above both sides. Not saying you're an asshole, only that there are important issues involved in the culture wars over religion. I see two main problems.

One is some people think it's OK to use the law to push their religious point of view.

The other is that people use religion, sometimes, to deny science.

[Guest Guest]

That is not why atheists engage. Atheists feel that religion is actively harmful to our society and to progress. Only one side constantly campaigns to stop research. Only one side constantly tries to get their belief preferential treatment by the government. You wonder why the atheists oppose that? Looks like you're the asshole to me.

[Guest Kearny Christian]

That is not why atheists engage. Atheists feel that religion is actively harmful to our society and to progress. Only one side constantly campaigns to stop research. Only one side constantly tries to get their belief preferential treatment by the government. You wonder why the atheists oppose that? Looks like you're the asshole to me.

Another angry and mean-spirited atheist here to make my case that most atheists are angry, mean-spirited anti Christian. Thank You.

[Guest Guest]

Another angry and mean-spirited atheist here to make my case that most atheists are angry, mean-spirited anti Christian. Thank You.

That's your response? Talk about angry and mean-spirited!

And you just contradicted yourself, again. Three days ago you wrote that only a fringe group of atheists were angry and mean-spirited. Now you're back to pinning the label on "most atheists" again. You can't even agree with yourself from one post to the next, never mind addressing any of the issues. Pathetic.

[Guest Guest]

Not angry at all. Pew polls have shown an increasing trend towards non-belief in the coming generations and the number one reason given is that churches are too political. I don't have to be angry-you are destroying yourselves. I do find it interesting that you find the truth so hurtful. Let me give examples. 1. Opposition to stem cell research has caused us to fall behind in science. 2. Creationism is a leading cause of us falling behind the rest of the world. 3. Opposition to gay marraige is almost entirely religious. There are quite a few examples of Christians wanting preferential treatment-school prayer, changing the Pledge and our national motto, denying permits to mosques, and the apparently biggest one which we can find right on this page, forcing everyone to recognize their holy day. What you don't get with your weaselly posts above is that we wouldn't care about your religion if you did something good with it. Most religious people are decent people, and many do great good because of their beliefs. But you would rather rant about what everyone else is doing wrong because your faith is shallow. It is easy to post on the internet and feel you are doing God's work rather than actually doing what Jesus told you to do.

[Guest Guest]

Not angry at all. Pew polls have shown an increasing trend towards non-belief in the coming generations and the number one reason given is that churches are too political. I don't have to be angry-you are destroying yourselves. I do find it interesting that you find the truth so hurtful. Let me give examples. 1. Opposition to stem cell research has caused us to fall behind in science. 2. Creationism is a leading cause of us falling behind the rest of the world. 3. Opposition to gay marraige is almost entirely religious. There are quite a few examples of Christians wanting preferential treatment-school prayer, changing the Pledge and our national motto, denying permits to mosques, and the apparently biggest one which we can find right on this page, forcing everyone to recognize their holy day. What you don't get with your weaselly posts above is that we wouldn't care about your religion if you did something good with it. Most religious people are decent people, and many do great good because of their beliefs. But you would rather rant about what everyone else is doing wrong because your faith is shallow. It is easy to post on the internet and feel you are doing God's work rather than actually doing what Jesus told you to do.

Bravo. That is an excellent post.

Holier-than-thous like the so-called Kearny Christian are trained to think the way they do. If you tell children "if you believe it, or have faith in it, it will happen," some of those kids are going to take that seriously and grow up "thinking" like KC. For KC, a discussion isn't a discussion. It's just words thrown together that don't have anything to do with how things really are. He or she is not interested in the truth, only in being told she/he is right. So he/she will say anything because the reality doesn't matter. "If you say it, it will happen." They really believe that crap, and it all goes back to their training.

[Guest Kearny Christian]

Not angry at all. Pew polls have shown an increasing trend towards non-belief in the coming generations and the number one reason given is that churches are too political. I don't have to be angry-you are destroying yourselves. I do find it interesting that you find the truth so hurtful. Let me give examples. 1. Opposition to stem cell research has caused us to fall behind in science. 2. Creationism is a leading cause of us falling behind the rest of the world. 3. Opposition to gay marraige is almost entirely religious. There are quite a few examples of Christians wanting preferential treatment-school prayer, changing the Pledge and our national motto, denying permits to mosques, and the apparently biggest one which we can find right on this page, forcing everyone to recognize their holy day. What you don't get with your weaselly posts above is that we wouldn't care about your religion if you did something good with it. Most religious people are decent people, and many do great good because of their beliefs. But you would rather rant about what everyone else is doing wrong because your faith is shallow. It is easy to post on the internet and feel you are doing God's work rather than actually doing what Jesus told you to do

Another example of angry, mean spirited etheists: An atheist group is suing Kansas State University to remove the bibles that are placed in the hotel on campus. I think I'll add pathetic to angry and mean spirited.

[Guest Guest]

Not angry at all. Pew polls have shown an increasing trend towards non-belief in the coming generations and the number one reason given is that churches are too political. I don't have to be angry-you are destroying yourselves. I do find it interesting that you find the truth so hurtful. Let me give examples. 1. Opposition to stem cell research has caused us to fall behind in science. 2. Creationism is a leading cause of us falling behind the rest of the world. 3. Opposition to gay marraige is almost entirely religious. There are quite a few examples of Christians wanting preferential treatment-school prayer, changing the Pledge and our national motto, denying permits to mosques, and the apparently biggest one which we can find right on this page, forcing everyone to recognize their holy day. What you don't get with your weaselly posts above is that we wouldn't care about your religion if you did something good with it. Most religious people are decent people, and many do great good because of their beliefs. But you would rather rant about what everyone else is doing wrong because your faith is shallow. It is easy to post on the internet and feel you are doing God's work rather than actually doing what Jesus told you to do

Another example of angry, mean spirited etheists: An atheist group is suing Kansas State University to remove the bibles that are placed in the hotel on campus. I think I'll add pathetic to angry and mean spirited.

Now you're just being stupid. That is not angry and mean-spirited. It's enforcing the law. KSU is a public university, which means that it is government-owned and run. So is Iowa State University, where the Freedom From Religion Foundation succeeded in getting the university to remove bibles from its hotel rooms. In placing the bibles there, the universities were promoting the Christian religion, exclusively. They weren't also placing Korans and Upanishads and Bhagivad Gitas and "Spelling God With Two O's" in the hotels. They were promoting one religion over all the others. In other words, they were endorsing that religion, which the First Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits. In behaving that way, these two universities in far-right-wing states, were not treating everyone equally. (In fairness, FFRF succeeded in another case in Wisconsin, where FFRF is based.) They were giving Christians preferential treatment by endorsing their religion. And that is why FFRF sued to stop the practice. And FFRF succeeded. See this article on the story, from the Christian Post and this one from FFRF's website.

Now, why did they succeed? They succeeded because the universities knew they were right. If those lawsuits had continued, FFRF would have won. So in other words, these universities were doing something they knew was illegal, and FFRF stopped them. That's not angry or mean-spirited. It's civic-minded.

Dan Barker, one of the co-chairs of FFRF along with his wife Annie Laurie Gaylor, is a former evangelical Christian minister. He is not angry or mean-spirited. On the contrary, he is a warm and delightful man who realized that the religion he used to believe in was wrong, for several reasons. Annie is also a very kind person. Do you know either of them? Of course you don't. But I do. They are very kind and good people. You just don't agree with them.

There are two big problems with you, for starters anyway. One is that nothing gets through to you. No matter how many times something is explained to you, if you don't want to hear it, you just block it out. You'll never engage on a discussion of this point, which you just raised. You know deep down that you're wrong. If you didn't, you wouldn't keep changing and ignoring the subject. But you won't change your mind because the information I just gave you never gets processed in the rational centers of your brain. You block it, and a result, you never learn anything on these subjects. So you keep writing the same thing over and over, and the discussion never moves forward.

The other is, you are angry and mean-spirited. Look at how you post. You deride people. You sneer at people. You call names just because you don't agree with someone. At the top of this post, I wrote that you were being stupid. That's not to say that you are a stupid person, only that you are being stupid. Those are not empty words. I wrote them because they are true. You responded to a highly intelligent post by changing the subject and giving an example that doesn't even support your point. That is stupid. You, on the other hand, go after people just because you don't agree with them. And you don't have the respect for others to open your mind and consider that maybe - just maybe - someone else could be right and you could be wrong. So in the end, you don't worship God. You worship yourself, and your own opinions. Those aren't empty words either. I've been watching you post, and that is an accurate assessment of what you are doing.

So if people fire back at you, ask yourself what you are doing to invite their response.

[Guest Guest]

KC, you didn't listen closely enough to what your thought-masters told you to think. It wasn't Kansas State U. It was Iowa State U. And there was no lawsuit, only a letter. In response to the letter, the university voluntarily removed the Bibles from the hotel rooms. Obviously, they knew that they didn't belong in the hotels. They knew that if there was a lawsuit, they would have lost. Because what they were doing was illegal. So, did they burn the Bibles? No, they're going to put them in the library and the campus chapels, where they belong. What's the problem?

[Guest Guest]

Westboro Baptists protest the funerals of our troops in the name of Christianity. Should I generalize that to all Christians? Of course not, because that would be the very definition of prejudice. Sounds like the pathetic label belongs on you, bigot.