Jump to content

hypocrisy - reaction to British bus campaign


Guest Paul
 Share

Recommended Posts

The British Humanist Association is sponsoring advertisements on buses in Britain that say "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." These advertisements come in response to some British Humanists being told they are destined for eternity in hell for what others call non-belief. Agree or disagree, they are expressing what they believe, and there is a positive message in it.

Today's New York Times reports the response of one 76-year-old woman, who said "I think it's dreadful. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't like it in my face."

I would like to say that maybe now she understands how we non-theists feel, but it's obvious she doesn't see the connection. Other people's religious beliefs are forced on us every day, including in public ceremonies and events that should represent us all. Yet somehow the dominant majority manages not to see how it imposes its will on others. That's necessary in matters of public policy, but not in matters of religion. I hope one day public consciousness will be raised sufficiently that we can stop fighting this battle. Religious belief should be a private matter for the individual. Groups should be free to express and promote their views. Governments should be and remain entirely neutral on the matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 56
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The British Humanist Association is sponsoring advertisements on buses in Britain that say "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." These advertisements come in response to some British Humanists being told they are destined for eternity in hell for what others call non-belief. Agree or disagree, they are expressing what they believe, and there is a positive message in it.

Today's New York Times reports the response of one 76-year-old woman, who said "I think it's dreadful. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't like it in my face."

I would like to say that maybe now she understands how we non-theists feel, but it's obvious she doesn't see the connection. Other people's religious beliefs are forced on us every day, including in public ceremonies and events that should represent us all. Yet somehow the dominant majority manages not to see how it imposes its will on others. That's necessary in matters of public policy, but not in matters of religion. I hope one day public consciousness will be raised sufficiently that we can stop fighting this battle. Religious belief should be a private matter for the individual. Groups should be free to express and promote their views. Governments should be and remain entirely neutral on the matter.

Paul, why can't you see that you want your belief system forced on others?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Patriot
The British Humanist Association is sponsoring advertisements on buses in Britain that say "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." These advertisements come in response to some British Humanists being told they are destined for eternity in hell for what others call non-belief. Agree or disagree, they are expressing what they believe, and there is a positive message in it.

Today's New York Times reports the response of one 76-year-old woman, who said "I think it's dreadful. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't like it in my face."

I would like to say that maybe now she understands how we non-theists feel, but it's obvious she doesn't see the connection. Other people's religious beliefs are forced on us every day, including in public ceremonies and events that should represent us all. Yet somehow the dominant majority manages not to see how it imposes its will on others. That's necessary in matters of public policy, but not in matters of religion. I hope one day public consciousness will be raised sufficiently that we can stop fighting this battle. Religious belief should be a private matter for the individual. Groups should be free to express and promote their views. Governments should be and remain entirely neutral on the matter.

Sorry Paul, thankfully your atheist views are shared by the very few. Did you notice the other day when the new Senators were sworn in they all said the words "so help me God"? Obama will say the same words at his inauguration. You atheists just can't stand the idea of Christians celebrating their faith.

If it's not the Mt. Soledad Cross, it's Christmas displays or something else. Since 80+% of the U.S. population is Christian, we can do whatever we want and

you pitiful atheists can't do anything about it except piss and moan. No matter how many times you type your long-winded diatribes here, nothing is going to change, you'll always be on the losing side, deal with it. (BTW, how does Kris feel about this, I bet she's an atheist too. LOL)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul, why can't you see that you want your belief system forced on others?

I don't see that. Please explain your point so that I can see it. You'll be doing me a favor and maybe you'll change my mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest *Autonomous*
Sorry Paul, thankfully your atheist views are shared by the very few. Did you notice the other day when the new Senators were sworn in they all said the words "so help me God"? Obama will say the same words at his inauguration. You atheists just can't stand the idea of Christians celebrating their faith.

If it's not the Mt. Soledad Cross, it's Christmas displays or something else. Since 80+% of the U.S. population is Christian, we can do whatever we want and

you pitiful atheists can't do anything about it except piss and moan. No matter how many times you type your long-winded diatribes here, nothing is going to change, you'll always be on the losing side, deal with it. (BTW, how does Kris feel about this, I bet she's an atheist too. LOL)

You can do whatever you want? I guess that's why there's still prayer in schools and why Intelligent Design is so widely taught...

oh wait, it isn't.

Look at the numbers-it is only a matter of time. Ironically, the biggest reason people give for leaving the faith is the over-politicization of the church. Congratulations-you're shooting yourself in the foot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry Paul, thankfully your atheist views are shared by the very few. Did you notice the other day when the new Senators were sworn in they all said the words "so help me God"? Obama will say the same words at his inauguration. You atheists just can't stand the idea of Christians celebrating their faith.

If it's not the Mt. Soledad Cross, it's Christmas displays or something else. Since 80+% of the U.S. population is Christian, we can do whatever we want and

you pitiful atheists can't do anything about it except piss and moan. No matter how many times you type your long-winded diatribes here, nothing is going to change, you'll always be on the losing side, deal with it. (BTW, how does Kris feel about this, I bet she's an atheist too. LOL)

I am not an Atheist but rather a secular Humanist. I don't say there is no god but I do not live my life as if there were. So, not to disappoint you, I do agree with Paul. Just because the majority of people believe something, that does not make it true or universal for everyone. People used the believe the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth because the church said so. Anyone disagreeing with that was considered a heretic and suffered the consequences. We all can laugh at the silliness of that now because we know better but I am certain that in the future (probably not in my lifetime) supernatural and superstitious beliefs will be replaced by rational and reasonable thoughts made by human beings for the benefit of other human beings and the living things that occupy this planet. Until that time comes, we will continue to have wars, unjustified hate and people living in fear. What most believers don't realize is separation of church and state protects their rights as much as it does us non-believers. I don't care about Christians celebrating their faith, it's a personal thing and that is what it should remain-a personal thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Patriot
I am not an Atheist but rather a secular Humanist. I don't say there is no god but I do not live my life as if there were. So, not to disappoint you, I do agree with Paul. Just because the majority of people believe something, that does not make it true or universal for everyone. People used the believe the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth because the church said so. Anyone disagreeing with that was considered a heretic and suffered the consequences. We all can laugh at the silliness of that now because we know better but I am certain that in the future (probably not in my lifetime) supernatural and superstitious beliefs will be replaced by rational and reasonable thoughts made by human beings for the benefit of other human beings and the living things that occupy this planet. Until that time comes, we will continue to have wars, unjustified hate and people living in fear. What most believers don't realize is separation of church and state protects their rights as much as it does us non-believers. I don't care about Christians celebrating their faith, it's a personal thing and that is what it should remain-a personal thing.

What a coincidence, a secular Humanist just like Paul. And you have that smug "know more than everyone else" attitude, just like Paul. Go figure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry Paul, thankfully your atheist views are shared by the very few. Did you notice the other day when the new Senators were sworn in they all said the words "so help me God"? Obama will say the same words at his inauguration. You atheists just can't stand the idea of Christians celebrating their faith.

If it's not the Mt. Soledad Cross, it's Christmas displays or something else. Since 80+% of the U.S. population is Christian, we can do whatever we want and

you pitiful atheists can't do anything about it except piss and moan. No matter how many times you type your long-winded diatribes here, nothing is going to change, you'll always be on the losing side, deal with it. (BTW, how does Kris feel about this, I bet she's an atheist too. LOL)

What you're describing is a tyranny of the majority, and since you're in the majority on this issue, you don't care. You're willing to stomp on other people because you can. You said it yourself.

Ironically, you're doing it in the name of a religion whose central moral principle is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You're not a Christian in any positive sense of the term. You're a hypocrite. That's nothing new to anyone who has read any of your posts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see that. Please explain your point so that I can see it. You'll be doing me a favor and maybe you'll change my mind.

For example, you would like the words "under God" removed from the pledge. Isn't that forcing your view on others?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not an Atheist but rather a secular Humanist. I don't say there is no god but I do not live my life as if there were. So, not to disappoint you, I do agree with Paul. Just because the majority of people believe something, that does not make it true or universal for everyone. People used the believe the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth because the church said so. Anyone disagreeing with that was considered a heretic and suffered the consequences. We all can laugh at the silliness of that now because we know better but I am certain that in the future (probably not in my lifetime) supernatural and superstitious beliefs will be replaced by rational and reasonable thoughts made by human beings for the benefit of other human beings and the living things that occupy this planet. Until that time comes, we will continue to have wars, unjustified hate and people living in fear. What most believers don't realize is separation of church and state protects their rights as much as it does us non-believers. I don't care about Christians celebrating their faith, it's a personal thing and that is what it should remain-a personal thing.

You do care about Christians celebrating their faith or you wouldn't have agreed to secularize your school's Christamas show.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Melanie
Paul, why can't you see that you want your belief system forced on others?

Everyone except maybe the absolute anarchist wants his belief system forced on others. Any time we pass a law, we force our belief system on others. Paul's argument is that religious beliefs shouldn't be forced on others. I agree with him and don't see any inconsistency in his argument. As he said, maybe you can point one out, but I doubt it.

The reason it's OK to force some belief systems on others in the form of laws, but not other belief systems, is that some laws are necessary. Laws against murder, robbery, etc., are necessary even though they "force" a belief system that draws in some way on the idea that every person should be protected, have rights, etc. Laws that impose taxes and regulate financial dealings are necessary in our society because without them the economy won't function properly. If we didn't have those kinds of laws, there would be widespread suffering, and there has to be an economic philosophy behind them or they won't create a functioning economy. Economic philosophies are all belief systems, too, and so is the idea that we can use the force of the state to prevent or alleviate suffering even if it forces people to behave in a certain way. But again, it's necessary.

By contrast, there's no reason to use the law to force religious beliefs on others, at least if by religious belief you mean a belief in a god. You could say that all our other laws are based on religious beliefs, but that would be a secular definition of religion. You would be using the same words to mean different things.

When people say that a non-theist is forcing his beliefs on others, quite often it really means that they don't like the fact that he stands up for what he believes. That firmness "forces" some people to think twice about their own beliefs, so to them it seems like they're being forced, but they're really not. It's just how they look at things from their own biased standpoint.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Melanie
Sorry Paul, thankfully your atheist views are shared by the very few. Did you notice the other day when the new Senators were sworn in they all said the words "so help me God"? Obama will say the same words at his inauguration. You atheists just can't stand the idea of Christians celebrating their faith.

If it's not the Mt. Soledad Cross, it's Christmas displays or something else. Since 80+% of the U.S. population is Christian, we can do whatever we want and

you pitiful atheists can't do anything about it except piss and moan. No matter how many times you type your long-winded diatribes here, nothing is going to change, you'll always be on the losing side, deal with it. (BTW, how does Kris feel about this, I bet she's an atheist too. LOL)

A post like this makes you wonder when some elements of humanity will crawl out of caves and start walking upright.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest 2smart4u
A post like this makes you wonder when some elements of humanity will crawl out of caves and start walking upright.

Melanie ? Would you happen to be related to "Kris" ? Hmmmmm..........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Melanie
What a coincidence, a secular Humanist just like Paul. And you have that smug "know more than everyone else" attitude, just like Paul. Go figure.

In other words, if people question you, that makes them smug. You couldn't possibly be wrong, so they must be wrong. And if you call them a name and pin a label on them, that makes it easier for you not to think, which you're very good at (not thinking, that is). It's a habit with you, and you're going to have to work very hard to break it after so many years of practice.

And if some of us dare to agree with each other, we must all be the same person. You couldn't possibly be wrong, and it's easier for you not to think if only one person disagrees with you. So you assume that's the case.

Now ask yourself a question if you really care about values like being honest and sincere (instead of smug). What do all of your posts have in common? What assumptions are you making consistently and repeatedly? We see them. When will you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Melanie
You do care about Christians celebrating their faith or you wouldn't have agreed to secularize your school's Christamas show.

Wrong. There's a time and a place for everything. Christians celebrate their faith in their venues, like churches and homes. Schools that have students of many different religious beliefs are not the places for Christian worship or celebration as a group activity for the whole school. Kris made the point that she doesn't care about Christians celebrating their faith - that doesn't mean they get to use non-Christian schools to do it and have everyone else join in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For example, you would like the words "under God" removed from the pledge. Isn't that forcing your view on others?

Actually, it was someone forcing their beliefs on others that put those words there in the first place. The pledge was originally without the words "under god". They were added in the 1950's during the McCarthy years

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a coincidence, a secular Humanist just like Paul. And you have that smug "know more than everyone else" attitude, just like Paul. Go figure.

Patriot, (odd choice of name) you don't know anything about me. Quite the contrary. I don't think I know everything but figure my brain was meant for thinking and rationalizing which is what I try and do with it. I have not always been a secular humanist. I grew up a Lutheran and later on in life became "born again" I have earned my knowledge through trial and experience and and don't follow something blindly anymore just because ther majority of people do so. Your responses to many posts here are so childish and immature and always seem to be on the offensive whenever someone makes a point that even you can't argue with. This seems to be the typical kind of response I get from the religious "right" whenever they have nothing of substance to add and just resort to hurtling insults and making assumptions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You do care about Christians celebrating their faith or you wouldn't have agreed to secularize your school's Christamas show.

I did not have to secularize my Christmas show--it was already secular! It was just titled "The Christmas Toy" but it had nothing to do with the religious significance of Christmas. I was not allowed to perform it during school hours because of the word Christmas. As silly as I think that is, I support the school district for making that decision because of the very thing we are discussing here. Religion has no place in Government and public schools are government operated. I accepted this decision and did not blame the school district for making the choice they did. Even though the play was not about Christianity, the school did not want to take the position of endorsing any one belief system. That's democracy. I stand behind it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A post like this makes you wonder when some elements of humanity will crawl out of caves and start walking upright.

Since apes have no concept of religion, then I assume you're referring to the atheists that live in virtual caves??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For example, you would like the words "under God" removed from the pledge. Isn't that forcing your view on others?

Whoaaaaa Nelly.............

Who was the "communist under the bed" paranoid that hitched the pledge to a fantasy? AND the currency? Was that going to have the "old man on the cloud" bless our bombings of countless Southeast Asians? :rolleyes:

There's not a human being that's ever lived that can possibly KNOW god from a pubic hair, but countless have turned people into blood pudding insisting they do (is that WWJD?)..........and to ADVANCE THEIR POLITICS you can't BEAT DOG wrapped in old glory! Praise be the holy mackerel..........

Read this slowly if you have trouble with English (or hubris). ABSENSE of your DOG, your holy bibicular, your cross (burning and bleeding), the beads of roses, the cortran, the talmush, the holy fadda, the tablets of noses, Ben Hurr, the shroud, the wall of whales, your 72 va-jeens, gobs of lung-chips that look like the virgin Matilda or waltzing Mohammer and all the REST of your cult mechanisms and dual standard bigotries that you selfishly and insidiously move to inflict upon the US government and the taxes it collects and ravenously spends....is not a view forced on others. :angry:

The designed/intended ABSENSE of this dog GODMA from how we conduct our government and how we PAY for it, is PRECISELY why the freedom to worship your favorite flavor of bleeding Jeezee can work for so many diverse people in the USA.

Got a problem with that concept? (yes, I know you may have a problem with "diverse people" but read on)

Consider this reality: All dogcults are rabidly competitive and self-aggrandizing. Most each of them teaches their cashflock that THEIR DOG IS THE TRUE DOG, and all the rest are merely cats bound for general Tso's lunch special. Imagine the egos involved in THAT weekly gathering of souls!!! Woot Woot!! HALLELUJAH!!..........

.........and then imagine those egos during the work week. VOILA!!! YOU GET THE BUSH REGIME!!!! <_<

So as you hawk your DOG swishing for more of OTHER DOG hawkers' TAX MOOLAH (and the tax moolah of those Americans that respect gravity and speed of light because they don't play favorites) to consummate your sacred portfolio.........shove it up your genesis where your savior doesn't shine in the eyes of others, causing holy wars of terrorific heroes. :ninja:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For example, you would like the words "under God" removed from the pledge. Isn't that forcing your view on others?

Most respectfully, you’re the ones doing the forcing. You’re forcing your religious beliefs on me and millions of others in the public square, presuming to speak for our religious beliefs through a national pledge that presents itself as speaking for us all when in plain fact it doesn’t; worse than that, you’re presuming that we wish to proclaim the same belief, even though you know we don’t. We want you to stop doing that. Treat us as your equals and treat our religious beliefs with the same respect you want for your own. Don’t represent us to the world as Christians on the grounds that we are Americans. You know very well that the conclusion does not follow from the premise, so I want you to stop. That’s all I’m asking here.

Like many people, I feel very close to the people who went to elementary and junior high and high school with me. Like many places in the United States, my community was mostly Christian, almost exclusively so. At a reunion quite a few years ago, some of the de facto leaders decided they would say a prayer before dinner was served. I wouldn’t have minded if they had said “many of us are Christian and we wish to offer a prayer; we mean no disrespect to people of other religious beliefs or to those who choose not to participate.” But instead, one of the sweetest people I ever met announced that we would be saying a prayer, just sort of assuming that everyone would want to join in.

Kindly don’t presume to speak for me. Don’t disparage my religious beliefs by treating them as less worthy than your own. Let the law reflect that respect for everyone’s religion, not just the religion of the majority. If you think that’s forcing you, I can only say that I don’t see it that way. Maybe you can be more specific about what you think I would force you to do.

I wouldn’t even mind so much if it was just the pledge, but it isn’t just the pledge. Things like that never stop there. They foster an already present attitude of assumption in a culture whose majority, in our case, is Christian. I can’t force the majority to do anything, but I can point out to you why it’s wrong, why it’s disrespectful, why it’s not consistent with our founding principle of equality and how it makes me feel.

I welcome you to continue the discussion. I also invite you to post some kind of identity, even if you just call yourself x. It would be nice to know which “Guest” I’m addressing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Patriot
What you're describing is a tyranny of the majority, and since you're in the majority on this issue, you don't care. You're willing to stomp on other people because you can. You said it yourself.

Ironically, you're doing it in the name of a religion whose central moral principle is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You're not a Christian in any positive sense of the term. You're a hypocrite. That's nothing new to anyone who has read any of your posts.

No, what I'm describing is majority rule, a democratic process. Since Christians make up 80+% of the population, it only stands to reason that you will see a lot of various Christian references every day. If you have such a hard time dealing with that, then perhaps a good therapist can help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, what I'm describing is majority rule, a democratic process. Since Christians make up 80+% of the population, it only stands to reason that you will see a lot of various Christian references every day. If you have such a hard time dealing with that, then perhaps a good therapist can help.

No, you're describing a tyranny of the majority. In a Constitutional democracy there are limits on what the majority may do. For example, you right wingers would be the first to remind anyone that the government cannot confiscate your property without a compelling reason. The government can't sentence you to prison without a criminal trial and conviction. The government can't take any action adverse to your personal interests without due process, no matter how many people ask for it.

With this issue, religious expression, the government has no business promoting it and no reason to promote it. As usual, you change the subject to make your point. We're not saying Christian references are inappropriate. We're saying that government promotion of Christianity is inappropriate. The only reason it's happening is, just as you say, Christians are the dominant force in the United States. But that makes our case, not yours. The dominance of Christianity in this culture is all the more reason to guard against intrusions of Christian theology and symbolism by government. None of us needs your disparaging remarks, or your rudeness and ignorance.

You have a choice. You can either respect us as your equals or not. You've made your choice, but I still hope you'll open and then change your mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, what I'm describing is majority rule, a democratic process. Since Christians make up 80+% of the population, it only stands to reason that you will see a lot of various Christian references every day. If you have such a hard time dealing with that, then perhaps a good therapist can help.

Leftist atheists don't understand majority rule. It makes no sense that a small bunch of wackos (atheists) should feel they have any influence over a Christian country such as the USA. When the new President and new Senators both finish their oaths of office with the words "so help me God", when our currency reads "in God we trust", when our pledge contains the words "one nation under God", it's fair to say the USA is a Christian nation.

Of course far left, Kool-Aid swigging atheists will continue to complain and they'll swear there is no God until on their death-bed they'll pray for forgiveness

(just in case there is a God".)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did not have to secularize my Christmas show--it was already secular! It was just titled "The Christmas Toy" but it had nothing to do with the religious significance of Christmas. I was not allowed to perform it during school hours because of the word Christmas. As silly as I think that is, I support the school district for making that decision because of the very thing we are discussing here. Religion has no place in Government and public schools are government operated. I accepted this decision and did not blame the school district for making the choice they did. Even though the play was not about Christianity, the school did not want to take the position of endorsing any one belief system. That's democracy. I stand behind it

Then I suggest your school district should also remove the Christmas Holidays from the school schedule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...