Walmart

[Guest Guest]

Is Walmart coming to Kearny. Is the Mayor and Councilmembers supporting Walmart and how is that going to impact the businesses on Kearny avenue.

[Guest kcrew30]

Is Walmart coming to Kearny.  Is the Mayor and Councilmembers supporting Walmart and how is that going to impact the businesses on Kearny avenue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The new Wal-Mart won’t hurt businesses on Kearny ave due to the fact that we have alot of specialty stores that carry things Wal-Mart doesn’t. Now of course it is going to give Kmart a run for there money but that’s what competition is all about. If we didn’t have competition any store can charge you a higher price and most people don’t have access to anything out of the way they are going to have to pay the higher price. I really feel as a long time resident that Kearny might be coming back and this just might be what we need to get more business in town. I want to mention something else is that Wal-Mart has alot of really good things for very low prices and on a tight family budget that most people are on it is the place to save a good amount of money. So I am all for the Wal-Mart in Kearny and lower property taxes, which new development would help.

[Guest Guest 99]

There seems to be varying degrees of enthusiasm from council members about the superstore coming to town. None are saying it's a bad thing, although some are talking about tax abatements, that if given, will reduce the anticipated rateables for years.

My concerns are with the lost revenue to local businesses and the "bad neighbor" reputation WalMart has. Yes, local businesses will be affected because people, by nature, can not pass up a bargain, real or perceived. Have you ever come out of a discount department store and said, "Gee, I didn't think I spent that much!", because you couldn't pass up a sale on something you really didn't need but wanted. Then, instead of treating yourself to lunch at a local establishment, you go home and make soup and a sandwich? Or how about, "Wow, jewelry at 60% off!! I'm not going to the local jewelers and pay full price for quality merchandise." Think about it. The list goes on and on.

WalMart is not known as a community friendly company. Time and again they have been accused, or proven to, buy their way. In Secaucus, for instance, they offered money for local groups, as a bribe, if they could build a gas station at the Sam's Club. Also, ask anyone from that town about how many residents got jobs there.

Yes, competition is good for the consumer, but at what cost to the community as a whole? Do we lose our small town identity and become just another WalMart dot on the map? Isn't it really just an oversized Kmart, along with the same problems, that we're getting so excited about?

[Guest Guest]

well it wont hurt the car theft business, thats for sure with the quick access to the route 280 ramp. kearny is shot to hell and its never coming back. enjoy your next tax increase

[Jim Mangin]

Walmart In Kearny will be herald the return of a new kind of "dumps" in Kearny. What possible benefit could this "community-killer" have for the people of Kearny? Someone mentioned increased tax ratables - wrong! Walmart has a history of securing the most lucrative tax abatements in history. In Kearny it will be much, much worse! Why? Because the area that Walmart wants to build on is under the jurisdiction of the New Jersey Meadowlands Commission, not the Town of Kearny. Walmart will cut an incredible beneficial deal for the NJMC - NOT THE TOWN OF KEARNY!

In other words, Kearny's support services (Police, Fire, Ambulance, Health Dept., Construction Code Dept, etc) will have to serve Walmart, but Walmart will cut a tax abatement deal with the NJMC, and will pay Kearny NOTHING!

Why would the NJMC agree to this? After all, haven't they changed? Aren't they our friends now? NO WAY! The NJMC receives no state funding - they are self-perpetuating. They only stay in existence as long as they can generate income (that's why they want to re-open the Keegan Landfill - but don't get me started on that).

Besides tax abatements, won't Walmart generate additional sales tax revenue? WRONG AGAIN! Mayor Santos and people like Councilwoman Sherry would like you to believe this - but don't be fooled! Say Walmart sells $5,000 in gold jewelry a week. That's $150 in sales tax to the UEZ. But where did that $150 come from? Probably from the Gold Store on Kearny Ave. If Joe and Ralph sell $5,000 in gold jewelry a week - that's $150 to the Kearny UEZ fund. But, if Walmart puts them out of business, Kearny still only makes $150 in tax revenue. They just displace the tax revenue that existing Kearny businesses currently provide. They don't generate new tax revenue! That's the Walmart myth!

Don't be fooled!

Jim Mangin

ps- I made a dollar bet with myself that someone reminds me that I'm no longer a Councilman. Don't disappoint me! C'mon, give me your best shot!

[Guest King St. Resident]

Its true Walmart will only destroy Kearny . Kearny will not see the money NJMDC will. As for the Keegan landfill we will be left with a 75 foot mountain and NJMDC profits from this not the Kearny resident matter of fact our homes will be worth less with this. Mr. Mangin you should be running for assembly. Dont give up!!!!!

[Guest Mr. Senit]

My family is not in support of Walmart in Kearny for many reasons.We donot want a landfill opened. Remember the late Ms. Halloway????? Thats what Kearny needs.

[Guest sam]

So plans are in the works for a Walmart on Keegan Landfill? Is that right off rte 7 by South Kearny? Anyone know where the entrance is going to be?

[Guest kcrew30]

So plans are in the works for a Walmart on Keegan Landfill? Is that right off rte 7 by South Kearny? Anyone know where the entrance is going to be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well accually its not going on Rt 7 nor on the keegan landfill. Its part of the bergen ave extension which is where the town of kearny garage and recycling center is. Now to the post above. The way i feel and most people i hear from feel is that if kearny ave has a store that is selling something i want and need i will happily buy it local and not at the walmart. The think is that walmart doesnt sell anything like what is sold on in kearny stores except for kmart which i am not a fan of anyway. So yes i will still buy my jewlery from the kearny gold store and my groccerys at pathmark/shoprite and my medical needs at echard but if i need something that i can get cheaper i will sure buy it from walmart where i have been shopping for years. Also one other point is that yes walmart has had a bad rap in the news lately and in the past but thats the thing you never here what comes out from the alligations. Walmart is a big company and thats why they are a bigger target for lawsuits.

[Guest Guest]

If you read the Tax Sharing section of the NJMC web page you will better understand what Kearny will receive from the WalMart site. There is no way it will be nothing as stated by a previous poster.

Now, can anyone tell me which poster has a vested interest in seeing that WalMArt doesn't come to town? Which one works in a large store that sells many items that WalMart also sells? What poster sells items that are not food stuffs that many Kearny Avenue stores sell?

Conflict of interest? No, he's not a Councilman anymore. Oops! Pay yourself a dollar, Jim. LOL

[Guest Councilwoman Barbara Sherry]

Jim,

Pay yourself another dollar. If you were still on the council, you might be privy to the rigorous efforts by our diligent mayor to deny WalMart any negotiations for a tax abatement. WalMart's attempt to obtain tax considerations in Secaucus were unsuccessful and we feel the situation here in Kearny mirrors that one. So your assumption that tax abatements are a done deal is incorrect. Also don't forget that Kearny is still a "receiver" community in the NJMC formula; so if the NJMC makes a good deal with WalMart, Kearny benefits.

I have to say that for someone with as much retail experience as you have, your marketing rationale leaves a bit to be desired. Your scenario concerning WalMart stealing customers from the Gold Market and thus just recycling the same sales tax into the Urban Enterprise Zone would only be valid if both entities had EXACTLY the same customer base. Let's be logical: the Mom and Pop stores on the Avenue will always have their loyal following with a few defections here and there. We are looking beyond the Kearny resident to expand the customer base. Ideally, the Gold Market and WalMart will both be contributing to the Zone fund. If your reasoning held water, then Pathmark and Shop-Rite (You're familiar with Shop-Rite, aren't you?) should have put every bodega and each other out of busines a long time ago.

I stand by my original assessment that WalMart will bring jobs and revenue to our town, that the competition for the public's dollar will spur the economy, and that its location precludes it from detracting from the character of our commercial or residential districts.

Free enterprise is the American way.

[Guest Guest]

Yes, "Ms. Silver Vixen", we need the NJMC to close various budget gaps, now, don't we.

[Guest Councilwoman Barbara Sherry]

Guest,

I will not apologize for infusing a perfectly legitimate source of revenue into our budget. Kearny is, by statute, a member town in the NJMC and as such is entitled to all the benefits offered by that agency. Would you prefer we didn't take the NJMC money and raised property taxes proportionately? Come to think of it, that might suit your purposes better.

I get the feeling that you view the term, "budget gap" as a four letter word or some devious plot to bilk the public. A budget gap is a perfectly acceptable accounting term for the difference between the ever-rising cost of necessary services and the revenue used to provide those services. All administrations, everywhere, experience gaps when formulating budgets. The creative ones try to find funding other than extreme tax increases.

PS You don't have to address me as Ms.. Just plain Councilwoman Silver Vixen is fine.

[Jim Mangin]

Jim,

Pay yourself another dollar.  If you were still on the council, you might be privy to the rigorous efforts by our diligent mayor to deny WalMart any negotiations for a tax abatement.  WalMart's attempt to obtain tax considerations in Secaucus were unsuccessful and we feel the situation here in Kearny mirrors that one.  So your assumption that tax abatements are a done deal is incorrect. Also don't forget that Kearny is still a "receiver" community in the NJMC formula; so if the NJMC makes a good deal with WalMart, Kearny benefits.

I have to say that for someone with as much retail experience as you have, your marketing rationale leaves a bit to be desired.  Your scenario concerning WalMart stealing customers from the Gold Market and thus just recycling the same sales tax into the Urban Enterprise Zone would only be valid if both entities had EXACTLY the same customer base.  Let's be logical: the Mom and Pop stores on the Avenue will always have their loyal following with a few defections here and there.  We are looking beyond the Kearny resident to expand the customer base. Ideally, the Gold Market and WalMart will both be contributing to the Zone fund.  If your reasoning held water, then Pathmark and Shop-Rite (You're familiar with Shop-Rite, aren't you?) should have put every bodega and each other out of busines a long time ago.

I stand by my original assessment that WalMart will bring jobs and revenue to our town, that the competition for the public's dollar will spur the economy, and that its location precludes it from detracting from the character of our commercial or residential districts.

Free enterprise is the American way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Barbara,

Tell the truth now. You miss me don't you? Anyway, game on. You wrote:

WalMart's attempt to obtain tax considerations in Secaucus were unsuccessful and we feel the situation here in Kearny mirrors that one. So your assumption that tax abatements are a done deal is incorrect.

Kearny does not, and never has "mirrored" Secaucus. Tax abatement negotiations occur solely between Walmart and the Meadowlands Commission (NJMC). If Walmart was unsuccessful in getting tax abatements, as you claim, it's because Secaucus has a representative on the NJMC and Kearny does not. Secaucus has historically fared better than Kearny in every dealing with the NJMC. Simply compare Harmon Cove to Kearny's meadowlands development.

Also don't forget that Kearny is still a "receiver" community in the NJMC formula; so if the NJMC makes a good deal with WalMart, Kearny benefits.

So what you're saying is - What's good for the Meadowlands Commission is good for Kearny. Shame on you. If you really believe that you should resign immediately.

the Mom and Pop stores on the Avenue will always have their loyal following with a few defections here and there. We are looking beyond the Kearny resident to expand the customer base. Ideally, the Gold Market and WalMart will both be contributing to the Zone fund.

If Walmart takes only half the customers from any Kearny Avenue business (a drop in the bucket for Walmart's customer's base) - that Kearny Ave. business will close. It's that simple. Don't believe me? Check other communities that have sufferred the 'Walmart crush.'

If your reasoning held water, then Pathmark and Shop-Rite should have put every bodega and each other out of business a long time ago.

Shop Rite and Pathmark don't rely on a Kearny customer base the way our Kearny Ave businesses do. I've said Shop Rite will survive a Walmart because we are financially stable. Pathmark and K-Mart are not. When the post-Walmart dust settles, Shop Rite will still be standing, but little else.

(You're familiar with Shop-Rite, aren't you?)

Yes, I'm familiar with Shop Rite. Remember, that's the place where you asked me to give your grandson a job. And I was happy to do it. He was such a good kid.

Now I have a question for you. Were you privy to the Mayor's secret discussions with Walmart from 2003-2004? If so, don't you think you should've spoken to your constituents about how they feel? The proposed Walmart location is in your ward - but the repercussions will be felt throughout the entire Town of Kearny for many years. It kinda reminds me of secret dealings another mayor had about bringing garbage dumping to Kearny in the 70's.

Personally, I don't like secret discussions. I think the residents have a right to know and their opinions weighed in policy matters. Last week's Observer quotes the mayor as saying "Bringing Walmart to Kearny is something I've struggled with." Well, it's too late to be having second thoughts now pal! You should've thought this thing through before pushing so hard for it. You "struggled" with bringing Walmart to Kearny? Sounds to me like you're back-pedalling. Now you'll tell the people of Kearny that you're concerned about Walmart, but in the back of your mind you know - it's a done deal - thanks to you.

Barbara, were you part of these secret discussions or was Mayor Santos acting solely on his own?

Jim Mangin

ps- This is the part of government I miss. Seriously, we should have a formal debate on this issue. I'm game. How about it?

[Guest DAVIS AVE.]

TO My Coucilwowan Sherry, Please resign if thats all you do is agree with the Mayor.The second ward does not want a Walmart. And we know we are going to be left with a mountain of garbage . How long is that mountain going to be there before anything is built?????History shows us that we cannot trust the NJMDC. We have you been??I THE PAST WE USE TO NAME LANDFILLS AFER WHO STARTED THEM SO I guess this one will be Santos and Crew. DO THE SECOND WARD A FAVOR AND RESIGN !!!!!!

[Guest Guest]

Jim, you said:

Kearny does not, and never has "mirrored" Secaucus. Tax abatement negotiations occur solely between Walmart and the Meadowlands Commission (NJMC). If Walmart was unsuccessful in getting tax abatements, as you claim, it's because Secaucus has a representative on the NJMC and Kearny does not. Secaucus has historically fared better than Kearny in every dealing with the NJMC. Simply compare Harmon Cove to Kearny's meadowlands development.

If anyone believes this, they should take a ride to Secaucus and talk to the residents. Just don't go during rush hour, when the residents stay home because of the traffic the NJMC projects have inflicted on their town. And, if the NJMC offers an abatement to WalMart, it must be discussed and voted on during an open, posted meeting, at which time citizens may speak.

You said:

So what you're saying is - What's good for the Meadowlands Commission is good for Kearny. Shame on you. If you really believe that you should resign immediately.

That's not what the Councilwoman said. She stated, " so if the NJMC makes a good deal with WalMart, Kearny benefits." We, Kearny, share in any monies generated by the NJMC if we are; and we are; one of the lesser developed towns in the region.

You claim:

If Walmart takes only half the customers from any Kearny Avenue business (a drop in the bucket for Walmart's customer's base) - that Kearny Ave. business will close. It's that simple. Don't believe me? Check other communities that have sufferred the 'Walmart crush.'

You're right. However, would you please tell us where you came up with the 50% figure, because if Pathmark took the same amount of business away from your store it would close too. Iffies don't count and are used solely as a scare tactic. Shame on you, Jim.

And finally:

Shop Rite and Pathmark don't rely on a Kearny customer base the way our Kearny Ave businesses do. I've said Shop Rite will survive a Walmart because we are financially stable. Pathmark and K-Mart are not. When the post-Walmart dust settles, Shop Rite will still be standing, but little else.

So Shop Rite doesn't rely on a Kearny customer base, but WalMart will? I disagree. With your reasoning, WalMart should affect local stores in the exact same manner that Shop Rite and Kmart did. When the dust clears and your particular store , not the company, is not producing it will be closed. No financially stable company will continue to operate a store at a loss.

Secret meetings- Does that include secret campaign finaning meetings?

[Guest Guestimate]

Jim,

You are still no longer a councilman. (At this rate you may be a self-made millionaire )

[Guest Councilwoman Barbara Sherry]

Jim, Jim, Jim

It's so good to see that your loss at the polls hasn't dampened your sense of humor or your flair for the dramatic.

First let's address the most telling (about you,that is) remark in your response: the personal reference to my grandson, *****. I found that little snipe unworthy of you and generally find it unbecoming when someone mentions a past kindness. Tacky!

I found most of your comments to be the same old rhetoric but there were a few points that I would like to clarify. You seem to be saying that Shop-Rite and Pathmark have a more benign effect on our small businesses because, "....they don't rely on a Kearny cutomer base." NEITHER WILL WALMART. Isn't that the very point I was making? We're not talking about recirculating the same ten shoppers. The customer base will be expanded.

Your villification of the NJMC may have some basis in past wrongs, but I'd like to believe that the new leadership, especially in Susan Bass Levin, has shown some earnest efforts to treat Kearny in a fair manner. Of course, time will be the ultimate judge of whether or not these efforts are meaningful. In the meantime, the commission has juristiction over areas within our borders and it does no good to foster an adverserial relationship.

Now as to these "secret" negotiations you allude to (or is it illude to): Shhh. Don't tell anyone, but they took place at OPEN NJMC meetings and the mayor spoke about the subject at an OPEN town council meeting in resonse to questions by Mr. Hakim

In the final analysis, in a free society, do you or I have the right to tell anyone where to open a business? And do we really protect existing business by maintaining the status quo and becoming completely stagnent?

KOTW Note: This post has been edited for content. I removed the name of Councilwoman Sherry's grandson. Because Councilwoman Sherry is a public official I allowed the initial post to include the comment. I have however taken the liberty of removing the name because her grandson is not.

[Guest Hudson Observer]

Jim,

Barbara is right on this one.

You wrote: Tax abatement negotiations occur solely between Walmart and the Meadowlands Commission (NJMC).

Wrong Jim. The NJMC is not a taxing authority. Only municipalities are. Only the town can negotiate a tax abatement agreement with a developer.

Jim, you ignored Sherry's comment about being a "receiver" community and distorted her comment. Kearny now receives $4 million a year in tax sharing revenue from the Meadowlands Commission. That is a very good thing, is it not? Or would you rather raise taxes by $4 million?

Jim, when supermarkets supersized themselves, did anyone in town lose? When Shop Rite went from a small store on Beech Street to a large facility on Passaic Avenue, how did the town small food stores compete with your employer, Shop Rite, on pricing? Isn't your position inconsistent and based on personal interest?

Jim, is the "Wal Mart crush" as you put it Wal Mart or local residents who decide to shop at Wal Mart?

Jim, what does a teenager making $6 an hour at Shop Rite have to do with this discussion? Nothing. It's shameful on your part, that's what it is.

Jim, you were on the Council in 2004. Jim, you were "privy" to the Wal Mart discussions. Why all the fuss now? Why the posturing? The development of Bergen Avenue and retail development has been discussed publicly for years. The Wal Mart development was reported in the press over a year ago.

As to your funny math about how sales tax revenue won't go up if Wal Mart comes, that's an impossibility. That could only happen if every single customer that Wal Mart attracts would have purchased their exact items at an existing Kearny store in the Kerny UEZ zone if not for the Wal Mart.

One last question: has Shop Rite competed with a Wal Mart with a food section yet?

[Guest Guest 99]

TO My Coucilwowan Sherry, Please resign if thats all you do is agree with the Mayor.The second ward does not want a Walmart. And we know we are going to be left with a mountain of garbage . How long is that mountain going to be there before anything is built?????History shows us that we cannot trust the NJMDC. We have you been??I THE PAST WE USE TO NAME LANDFILLS AFER WHO STARTED THEM SO  I guess this one will be Santos and Crew. DO THE SECOND WARD A FAVOR AND RESIGN !!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that's it! The Second Ward doesn't want a WalMart, so KEARNY should stop it. When was the vote taken in that ward on WalMart? And, who took it? Was it you Jim?

I'll say it one last time, it is not a mountain of garbage. Garbage contains biodegradeable foodstuff. This will be construction debri without asbestos, as per the permiting process requirements. But you won't believe me because I must be one of Big Al's people, right?

By the way, what is a Coucilwowan?

[Guest A. Realist]

Jimbo,

Guess we can all tell we're headin' into Primary time. Things are heating up. Take a tip from a former fan. Don't engage in a battle of the wits with Super Santos and the Grey Panther. It is a war for which you are grossly under-armed.

Oh, and those bogus postings you try to disguise......c'mon now, try to salvage a little dignity!

[Guest Bergan Ave. Voter]

I agree with the resident on Davis Ave. The second ward is the largest of them all.The Keegan landfill is our backyard and its true that we are always left with a mountain. I hope in this case it is not true. However the Mayor and Crew are in the stone age when it comes to environmental issues. I cannot say anymore I will give this info to the proper person and it will not be anyone sitting next to the king.I would like to see B. Sherry resign. I hope this Walmart store and the Keegan landfill end the entire bozo crew.Never did see a crew that always agree with Mr. Ego Santos.I have lived in Kearny for over 30 years.This is why no-one attends meetings .Its like this yes mayor yes mayor give me a break!!!!

[Guest Guestimate]

What street do you live on again?

[Guest guest]

Has anyone thought of the downside of building this walmart on Harrison Ave. There will be traffic accidents, thefts, robberies, damage reports, arrests, for the police. Fire alarms, fire inspections, accidents, car fires etc for the fire dept. Injuries, accidents, sick calls for the ambulance. And when all your emergency services are stuck on Harrison Ave, and you need them on Madison Ave, good luck getting them there. The town has no plans to hire more firefighters, police officers or increase the ambulance service, as that would raise our taxes even higher, so that means the existing services will have to handle it. Has anyone thought of that, and now what are we gaining from the Walmart. Jobs you say? Most of the jobs will be part time jobs, and there is no promise from walmart of just hiring kearny people. Just something to think about.

[Guest Guiest 99]

Has anyone thought of the downside of building this walmart on Harrison Ave. There will be traffic accidents, thefts, robberies, damage reports, arrests, for the police. Fire alarms, fire inspections, accidents, car fires etc for the fire dept. Injuries, accidents, sick calls for the ambulance. And when all your emergency services are stuck on Harrison Ave, and you need them on Madison Ave, good luck getting them there. The town has no plans to hire more firefighters, police officers or increase the ambulance service, as that would raise our taxes even higher, so that means the existing services will have to handle it. Has anyone thought of that, and now what are we gaining from the Walmart. Jobs you say? Most of the jobs will be part time jobs, and there is no promise from walmart of just hiring kearny people. Just something to think about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What makes you think this particular store will affect town services any more than a Shop Rite, Pathmark or Kmart do? Should we now consider throwing them out of town to save money? Oh, and lets not forget the bars with their inherent fights and drunk drivers.

Part two: Jobs, rateables and UEZ sales tax, all in a remote section of town.