Merry Christmas

[Guest 2smart4u]

To all atheists on KOTW: Merry Christmas. May the new year bring a religious awakening to your heathen hearts and minds.

[Guest Guest]

To all atheists on KOTW: Merry Christmas. May the new year bring a religious awakening to your heathen hearts and minds.

And may the new year bring an awakening to your demented soul that you are a minority. America has rejected you, your party and your hate America agenda.

[Guest Guest]

To all atheists on KOTW: Merry Christmas. May the new year bring a religious awakening to your heathen hearts and minds.

I'm an atheist and I had a marvelous Christmas, complete with a brightly decorated tree and great company. You don't seem to understand that religious awakening is about being joyful and optimistic and generous and living life to the fullest.

[Guest Kearny Christian]

I'm an atheist and I had a marvelous Christmas, complete with a brightly decorated tree and great company. You don't seem to understand that religious awakening is about being joyful and optimistic and generous and living life to the fullest.

What?? Religious awakening is recognizing and accepting God into your life.

[Guest Guest]

What?? Religious awakening is recognizing and accepting God into your life.

Not for everyone, especially if your definition of God is as narrow as yours seems to be. If you don't understand that, then you should talk to people who have been awakened and enlightened without being Christian. Read some books by Thich Nhat Hanh or the current Dalai Lama, both Buddhists; or watch some of their videos. They are marvelous men, with a spiritual understanding that far surpasses that of the average person, including the average Christian. Read what Gandhi wrote about religion. There are people all over the world who have been religiously awakened without being Christian, and without believing in a supreme being. Helen Keller, for example. Einstein. The fact that you are so stunned only says that you have much to learn. Do you really think that you don't? Read, study, learn from sources that don't support just one view. You can't even begin to be awakened, or enlightened, if you won't do that. Your own religion tells you that. As Gandhi once said of Christianity, when someone told him it was a religion of love and peace (I'm paraphrasing): "That sounds great. They should try it."

[Guest Guest]

A first step toward religious awakening is humility: recognizing how little you know.

Another important step is recognizing that everyone's path to enlightenment is unique. We all have our own strengths, our own capacities, and our own blocks to becoming religiously awake.

Even if you believe in a God, at least recognize that your idea of God is your opinion, which in turn is a product of who you are (your own strengths and weaknesses) and where you've been (the strengths and weaknesses of those you have encountered). No one has the final answer, and if you think you do, the less enlightened, or awake, you are likely to be.

[Guest Guest]

What?? Religious awakening is recognizing and accepting God into your life.

Maybe you're wrong. Maybe you can't have a religious awakening unless you recognize you can be wrong.

Maybe religious awakening isn't what you think it is. Maybe it's more than you realize. Maybe it's more than you're capable of imagining, at least right now.

Ever think of that?

[Guest Guest]

What?? Religious awakening is recognizing and accepting God into your life.

Which God? What if you "recognize and accept" the wrong God? What if all gods are just imaginary? If you believe in a god that is kind and good but not real, are you more or less awake than someone who believes in a god that is cruel and vindictive?

If you're asleep and you think you're awake, are you awake or asleep?

How do you know you're awake and not asleep? If God thinks you're asleep and you think you're awake, are you awake or asleep?

Could you be wrong about whether you're awake or asleep? Has that ever happened to you?

What if there is a God but all She expects is that you do the best you can? What if She doesn't want you to believe in Her? What if She thinks the only people who are religiously awake are the ones who admit they don't know that She exists? What if she's offended by people who claim to know who She is?

What if the inner circle of Heaven is reserved for people who were honest enough to admit that they didn't have any evidence of a god, and therefore didn't believe in one?

Yeah, I know. You don't like to think about those things.

Makes it way too complicated, doesn't, it.

Then again, what if God likes it complicated?

When you die and you meet God, and you find out things are more complicated than you thought, are you going to argue with Him about it?

Hmmm?

[Guest 2smart4u]

Happy New Year. I'll say a prayer for all you heathens that you may find salvation.

[Guest Kearny Christian]

Which God? What if you "recognize and accept" the wrong God? What if all gods are just imaginary? If you believe in a god that is kind and good but not real, are you more or less awake than someone who believes in a god that is cruel and vindictive?

If you're asleep and you think you're awake, are you awake or asleep?

How do you know you're awake and not asleep? If God thinks you're asleep and you think you're awake, are you awake or asleep?

Could you be wrong about whether you're awake or asleep? Has that ever happened to you?

What if there is a God but all She expects is that you do the best you can? What if She doesn't want you to believe in Her? What if She thinks the only people who are religiously awake are the ones who admit they don't know that She exists? What if she's offended by people who claim to know who She is?

What if the inner circle of Heaven is reserved for people who were honest enough to admit that they didn't have any evidence of a god, and therefore didn't believe in one?

Yeah, I know. You don't like to think about those things.

Makes it way too complicated, doesn't, it.

Then again, what if God likes it complicated?

When you die and you meet God, and you find out things are more complicated than you thought, are you going to argue with Him about it?

Hmmm?

Put the pipe down, it's messing up your brain.

[Guest Guest]

Put the pipe down, it's messing up your brain.

Aren't you embarrassed to give a response like that? When a person thinks, he tends to ask questions. It's what thoughtful people do. The fact that you can only sneer at it, and you do it in the name of Christianity, is an embarrassment to Christianity.

Seriously, what do you think will happen if you ask questions, and think? Try it. The world won't come to an end. Just the opposite, it will open for you, and things that don't make sense to you now will begin to make sense.

[Guest Guest]

Happy New Year. I'll say a prayer for all you heathens that you may find salvation.

Salvation from what?

[Guest 2smart4u]

Salvation from what?

From your ignorance.

[Guest Guest]

Salvation from what?

Great question! The Christian fantasy sounds great to a lot of people - as long as you don't really think about it.

[Guest Gadfly]

From your ignorance.

Now THAT'S funny after you've ran away like a scared little girl from the creationist thread.

[Guest Guest]

From your ignorance.

That's not what you meant and you know it. It's just a smart-assed comeback, which is all you've got.

So what have you told us now? 1. You're intellectually dishonest, you just proved that again. 2. You're not smart enough to think one step ahead of your own argument. 3. Your intellectual gun is firing blanks.

So I'll ask you again: salvation from what? If you really think that dogma through, you'll see why it makes no sense.

[Guest Guest]

Put the pipe down, it's messing up your brain.

It's ironic how some people who wear their religion on their shirtsleeves only take religion seriously until they're challenged. Then, suddenly, it's a joke.

I stopped believing in what you call God because I take these things seriously. No matter how you spin it, no one knows or has any evidence that any god exists. I don't buy the idea that it's OK to believe in a god, or in "God," because it comforts people. Because I know that's all I would be doing: singing myself a bedtime lullaby that has nothing to do with what is real or true. So it doesn't comfort me, because I know it's not about what is real.

What comforts me is the beauty in life, in the world and in people. Those things are real. Those things I can do something about. So that is where I belong, with the things I can do something about: "I commit myself to live the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." In fact, I even find beauty in my cat, snooty as she is.

It's not my job to figure out the answers to questions that people have been asking for thousands of years. Don't get me wrong: I'd love to know the answers. But science has done far more to answer questions about the nature of reality than theology has.

So for me, religion is an approach to life; a Way, as some of the Eastern religions put it. It's taking everything into account, as best as I can, and bringing it together into a coherent whole. There are strains of Judaism and Christianity in that, and also strains of Islam. For some things, the Eastern religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism have more to offer, in my opinion. But ultimately, my religion is my own. And if you look closely at how even the most ardent Bible-thumper approaches these issues, the same is true of them: their religion is personal to them, they pick and choose, as we all do. The difference is that some of us admit it and know that our beliefs don't create the universe.

You can sneer at that if you want to, Kearny Christian and 2smart4u. But if you take time to study religious traditions, including emerging forms of Humanism, you will see that you've been missing a lot.

So what I wish for you this year is a religious awakening.

Peace.

[Guest Guest]

It's ironic how some people who wear their religion on their shirtsleeves only take religion seriously until they're challenged. Then, suddenly, it's a joke.

I stopped believing in what you call God because I take these things seriously. No matter how you spin it, no one knows or has any evidence that any god exists. I don't buy the idea that it's OK to believe in a god, or in "God," because it comforts people. Because I know that's all I would be doing: singing myself a bedtime lullaby that has nothing to do with what is real or true. So it doesn't comfort me, because I know it's not about what is real.

What comforts me is the beauty in life, in the world and in people. Those things are real. Those things I can do something about. So that is where I belong, with the things I can do something about: "I commit myself to live the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." In fact, I even find beauty in my cat, snooty as she is.

It's not my job to figure out the answers to questions that people have been asking for thousands of years. Don't get me wrong: I'd love to know the answers. But science has done far more to answer questions about the nature of reality than theology has.

So for me, religion is an approach to life; a Way, as some of the Eastern religions put it. It's taking everything into account, as best as I can, and bringing it together into a coherent whole. There are strains of Judaism and Christianity in that, and also strains of Islam. For some things, the Eastern religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism have more to offer, in my opinion. But ultimately, my religion is my own. And if you look closely at how even the most ardent Bible-thumper approaches these issues, the same is true of them: their religion is personal to them, they pick and choose, as we all do. The difference is that some of us admit it and know that our beliefs don't create the universe.

You can sneer at that if you want to, Kearny Christian and 2smart4u. But if you take time to study religious traditions, including emerging forms of Humanism, you will see that you've been missing a lot.

So what I wish for you this year is a religious awakening.

Peace.

Heh. Would love to see the super-pious ones try to respond to this - honestly respond, that is. If they did, they would have to admit that it's all true.

[Guest Guest]

From your ignorance.

Let's talk about your ignorance. The idea that a loving god would have a place of eternal torment just waiting for people who screw up - even once - by eating a fruit from a tree after this supposedly loving god told them not to is just plain stupid; and the idea that all of humanity would be condemned for eternity for that one offense is perhaps the stupidest thing anyone ever said. There's no justice in that, it's just a reflection of the thinking of people who lived thousands of years ago, when life was brutish and short, and people lived in tribes. If you can't put that story into its historical perspective, then you are ignorant of history and of human nature at the very least.

The idea of salvation, in traditional Christian theology, is premised on the existence of this idea of a hell to be saved from. That's why I asked: "Saved from what?" You didn't even have the honesty to answer the question. Because deep down, you know that what you believe is ridiculous. And your whole theology is built on that ridiculous premise. Without a hell to be saved from, there's no reason for anyone to die on a cross. So the entire story crumbles because its premise is nonsense. And not even nonsense in a material sense. It's nonsense in a spiritual sense. That's the tragic irony. The more you push that theology, the less enlightened you can be.

No doubt that will offend some people. Well, I have news for you. The idea that people who don't share your theology are doomed to hell offends me, and probably offends most people. We should stop being afraid to say so. You shouldn't get a free pass just because you kick and stomp your feet if people don't say "Merry Christmas" or "God bless you" when you sneeze.

If you think that what you're pushing isn't just a story - like all the stories you laugh at about thunder gods and rain gods, etc. - then you are ignorant. Sorry but there's no nice word for it. It's truly amazing that people still take this ridiculous story seriously. We'll never get to the place we need to be, as a civilization, until we put this ridiculous theology behind us. And that means that people who don't really buy it have to stop respecting it. It's nonsense, and harmful nonsense at that, because it distorts the concept of justice beyond recognition. In fact, it turns the very idea of justice on its head. We need to call this ridiculous theology it what it is.

So you see, that's the difference between a slogan and a fact. I can explain to you what makes you ignorant. All you have is the slogan.

[Guest Guest]

Let's talk about your ignorance. The idea that a loving god would have a place of eternal torment just waiting for people who screw up - even once - by eating a fruit from a tree after this supposedly loving god told them not to is just plain stupid; and the idea that all of humanity would be condemned for eternity for that one offense is perhaps the stupidest thing anyone ever said. There's no justice in that, it's just a reflection of the thinking of people who lived thousands of years ago, when life was brutish and short, and people lived in tribes. If you can't put that story into its historical perspective, then you are ignorant of history and of human nature at the very least.

The idea of salvation, in traditional Christian theology, is premised on the existence of this idea of a hell to be saved from. That's why I asked: "Saved from what?" You didn't even have the honesty to answer the question. Because deep down, you know that what you believe is ridiculous. And your whole theology is built on that ridiculous premise. Without a hell to be saved from, there's no reason for anyone to die on a cross. So the entire story crumbles because its premise is nonsense. And not even nonsense in a material sense. It's nonsense in a spiritual sense. That's the tragic irony. The more you push that theology, the less enlightened you can be.

No doubt that will offend some people. Well, I have news for you. The idea that people who don't share your theology are doomed to hell offends me, and probably offends most people. We should stop being afraid to say so. You shouldn't get a free pass just because you kick and stomp your feet if people don't say "Merry Christmas" or "God bless you" when you sneeze.

If you think that what you're pushing isn't just a story - like all the stories you laugh at about thunder gods and rain gods, etc. - then you are ignorant. Sorry but there's no nice word for it. It's truly amazing that people still take this ridiculous story seriously. We'll never get to the place we need to be, as a civilization, until we put this ridiculous theology behind us. And that means that people who don't really buy it have to stop respecting it. It's nonsense, and harmful nonsense at that, because it distorts the concept of justice beyond recognition. In fact, it turns the very idea of justice on its head. We need to call this ridiculous theology it what it is.

So you see, that's the difference between a slogan and a fact. I can explain to you what makes you ignorant. All you have is the slogan.

Expecting parents buy cribs for the child they expect to have. So what is hell? It existed before we were created, according to theology. So is it God's version of a crib? This isn't hyperbole. If you really think about the story, that's how it plays out.

And it's not an attack on God. I don't believe in a god. It's an attack on a theology that makes no sense. And that theology has more adherents worldwide than any other.

And we wonder why the world is screwed up. It's screwed up in large part because people believe in nonsense; and because people believe in things because they would like them to be true, not because they are true; and because we haven't outgrown some very primitive and backwards misconceptions of justice.

Our problem isn't that kids aren't forced to pray to an imaginary sky-god. Our problem is that as a culture we don't teach our kids according to a values system that works; and that notwithstanding whatever we teach the kids, we don't practice what we preach. Look at American history: a nation supposedly founded on a principle of "liberty and justice for all" stole the land from one people, and kidnapped and enslaved another people.

The religious right is correct about one thing: we live in a sick society. What they don't see is that they are one of the main reasons why it is so sick.

So go ahead, 2Stupid4Words or Kearny Christian: point out one thing in this post that isn't true.

[Guest 2smart4u]

Expecting parents buy cribs for the child they expect to have. So what is hell? It existed before we were created, according to theology. So is it God's version of a crib? This isn't hyperbole. If you really think about the story, that's how it plays out.

And it's not an attack on God. I don't believe in a god. It's an attack on a theology that makes no sense. And that theology has more adherents worldwide than any other.

And we wonder why the world is screwed up. It's screwed up in large part because people believe in nonsense; and because people believe in things because they would like them to be true, not because they are true; and because we haven't outgrown some very primitive and backwards misconceptions of justice.

Our problem isn't that kids aren't forced to pray to an imaginary sky-god. Our problem is that as a culture we don't teach our kids according to a values system that works; and that notwithstanding whatever we teach the kids, we don't practice what we preach. Look at American history: a nation supposedly founded on a principle of "liberty and justice for all" stole the land from one people, and kidnapped and enslaved another people.

The religious right is correct about one thing: we live in a sick society. What they don't see is that they are one of the main reasons why it is so sick.

So go ahead, 2Stupid4Words or Kearny Christian: point out one thing in this post that isn't true.

It's obvious your 90 I.Q. can't comprehend this subject. Stick to your comic books.

[Guest Guest]

It's obvious your 90 I.Q. can't comprehend this subject. Stick to your comic books.

You're not much on substantive thought, are you.

[Guest Guest]

It's obvious your 90 I.Q. can't comprehend this subject. Stick to your comic books.

Just Stop.....your constant bickering with these douches makes you out to be just as much of an asshole as they are.

[Guest Guest]

Just Stop.....your constant bickering with these douches makes you out to be just as much of an asshole as they are.

Who started the thread again?

[Guest Guest]

Who started the thread again?

Doesnt matter..assholes are assholes..... Asshole