doc13mets

A lot of paid departments can wear shorts. (During summer months) Just look at the surrounding paid towns and you will find this. And if heat gets through the bunker pants your in the kind of trouble that the difference between shorts and pants won't matter much. Kearny did away with their clothing allowance I believe a few contracts ago. More and more towns are doing away with it and the FD is providing attire on a need basis. I think this policy makes more sense. You have to understand the present hiring practices are different from years ago. So stop talking about the past when there are new rules to be followed when it comes to hiring. Part of that new rule allows non-residents to get hired. I personally feel qualified residents should be hired first, if there are no qualified residents then qualified residents from a county list and so forth. And that goes for all towns.

Explain why it belongs in the Kearny section. What does it have to do with Kearny? Why can't it have it's own section? The truth it has nothing to do with local politics it has to do with national politics. There should be an "Other" section.

Two good reply's. I'm starting to like this. It could make sense in the long run to create a regional fire department for West Hudson. If the FD was cut today, I doubt any tax dollars would be saved, they would just be reallocated. That I would be willing to wager a paycheck on. The geography of the area is the main reason for a paid FD. Because how close houses are together fire's are extremely prone to becoming large problems because 1 house fire can quickly become 3 house fires. A lot of paid firefighters from outside this area are shocked to find East Newark with volunteer department. The comment is usually like... "Really with houses being that close together in that Urban environment, wow." Do I think the system needs to change? Yes. Fire/Police unions need to realize the difficult economic environment we live in today and be more willing to make contributions to save jobs and continue growth in these departments. Public safety should never be compromised.

First off. Thank you for responding in an intelligent manner. Most people can not (or do not) on this board. The savings wouldn't be 24 million. For one Harrison would need a pretty large Volunteer Department for the type of town they are in the range about or close to 100 members or so. It would be difficult to man. Kearny is talking about cutbacks possibly they are able to cover their town and a little more but couldn't just add on Harrison as simple as that. Response time would be increased dramatically. Whether you realize it or not the initial first minutes at a fire can often meant the difference between a small fire and a huge fire. Harrison has a number a pretty larger number of small house fires. Maybe Harrison exaggerates there numbers a little bit. But if you look at Kearny's compared to Harrisons it's proportionally accurate. Which leads me to believe it's more correct then not correct. There has been at least 4-5 (and that just from memory they could very well of had more) decent size fires this year in Harrison. (By decent I mean at least 2 alarms) I assume you mean by PSE&G fixing them the FD must respond and monitor the situation until PSE&G arrive some 2 hours later. No hazardous conditions are not slick roads. They can be poles/wires/trees down. They can be roofs of houses blown onto the street. They can be a wide variety of things but it required the FD to respond and help alleviate the situation. Those are not service calls. Good intent means it turned out to be nothing. But the caller had a genuine concern. Smell of Gas that really wasn't gas. Smoke that really wasn't smoke caused by fire. Things of that nature. I heard Harrison FD go to tons a bunch of F/A's a week. So I know this to be untrue. Where I get that all across the U.S. fire calls are on the rise? Well there is tons of DATA to support that. Today fire departments are getting called for more and more stuff that is not directly fire in nature. And yes Fire's do go up big time in bad economy's. There are tons more "insurance" jobs when the economy is bad. Plenty of data to back that up as well. Span of Control is a fire scene standard. NFPA standards help govern what fire departments need to do to create safer environments for fire departments when creating protocols and guidelines. One ICS term is Span of Control. It states that a supervisor cannot be responsible for more than 7 people at one time. Optimally 3-5 people. I never said 3 supervisors for 1 FF. I said 3 FF's for 1 supervisor is optimal according to NFPA standards. No doesn't have anything to do with friends/politicians on HFD. Maybe that was something that did happen at one time. But honestly can't happen anymore. The Civil Service is extremely involved in the hiring process for new FF's. Why are there no Hispanics when the town is half Hispanic? Well thank the NCAAP for that as Harrison does not have a residency requirement it hires off of a list of Essex/Hudson county residents. If Harrison had a residency requirement and a lot of Hispanics went out for the test and if Harrison hired new FF's then I'm sure some would be. But Harrison hasn't hired in some time (5+ years maybe) so it's a moot point anyway.

Come on KOTW are you kidding me? "Ten Questions Right Wingers Cannot Answer" Then instead of listing the 10 questions in one post the person makes a topic for each question. You should have merged the topics as it was one topic. This is essentially spamming the board. You can't find anything in the Kearny section because everything in it has nothing to do with Kearny. It's all this spamming crap. Why can't you just make an "Other" Section. That way stuff that doesn't have to do with Kearny, Harrison, EN and NA could just go in there. The people of this board have asked many times for this to happen. I'm really starting to think who ever moderates this board is closely tied (maybe even the person) to whoever is making these ridiculous posts. This is out of control. All these posts hurt this board. Help us put an end to it!!!

This post is to correct inaccuracies of the original post. First off I will assume when you spoke of Newark you meant East Newark? Since Newark is in another county and does very very little mutual aid to Harrison in regards to the fire service. I will not factor EMS responsibilities in my points at all. You can’t have no fire protection (ie disband the whole thing) are you nuts? Could Harrison survive with an all volunteer FD? Yes. Would it effect taxes much? No. There is not a substantial difference of when it comes to property tax between East Newark and Harrison. Also Home owners insurance rates will climb in Harrison if the Department changed from Career to Volunteer. (Because there ISO rating would drop) Per diem expense to pay “Newark” (I assume East Newark) and Kearny when fire incidents occur? Ok I have no idea what you are talking about. Mutual Aid agreements in this area do not work that way. Towns give each other mutual aid free of charge because it is reciprocal. No payments or bills are sent between towns for helping each other with fire incidents. 0-1 Incidents a year? Ok now you’ve really lost me (as if you didn’t succeed already). The most recent data on the Division of Fire Safety website is the nffs report from 2008. (This does not include EMS as I’ve already deducted it) 74 – Fire (obviously range in size) 5 – Explosion (no fire) 153 – Hazardous Conditions 245 – Service Calls 54 – Good intent 190 – False Alarms 30 – Weather related 19 – Other 770 – Calls in 2008 (About right in proportion to Kearny FD’s responses in comparison to the population difference) And remember that’s from 2008. All across the United States fire calls are on the rise. I would wager at the end of this year they are about 850-900. Proper span of control according to the NFPA is 3-7. Optimal is 5. So if you are 5 or below you are in good shape. So Harrison is right on the NFPA standard. You talk about how Harrison fire fighters are scared? Well I don’t see it. I see them at fires working. They don’t hide or anything that you are talking about. Yes Kearny and East Newark are also at most of their fires but that goes for just about any town with any fire. Mutual aid is a common practice. Harrison has 2 pretty new Engines but their Ladder is OLD. They also have a nice reserve engine, its not new but it certainly isn’t old. Harrison should probably work to run only 1 Ladder, 1 Engine and 1 or 2 EMS a day. (With a second being available if they take say the Ladder out of service if they have multiple calls). Running 2 engines and a ladder and EMS is overkill. But 1, 1 and 1 is just about right and will keep the residents safe.

You think you know who or what I am. But you are dead wrong. I am not a HFD member (retired or active). Would it suprise you to know I am a firefighter? Probably not. Yes I am a firefighter. Thats how I have knowledge of the topics and local departments. Am I a paid firefighter? No I am not. I am a volunteer myself. Can volunteer firefighters get the job done? Yes they can. Can the volunteer fire department do the job even better? I am not so sure due to response time. Having firefighters on hand ready to respond to any incident without having to wait for them arrive at the fire house is a huge advantage. In a town like Harrison it can often mean the difference of a minor fire and a major fire. Minutes do mean a lot in the fire service. The main difference between a volunteer fire department and a paid fire department is response time. At one time you are most likely correct about Harrison "appointing" people. No longer is that the case. Harrison if they were to even hire firefighter in the near future the chances of them being from Harrison are slim to none which is a shame. Harrison is required to hire off a list from the state made up of Essex/Hudson country residents. (Which is unfair because Harrison residents can't be hired in Newark the largest FD in the state and their residents can be hired in Kearny/Harrison, talk about discrimination. Harrison and Kearny should be able to hire their residents first or at least hire from a list of West Hudson residents. Rankings would obviously be determined by the Civil Service Commission which is state run. 3 fires in the past 4 years? Boy you really have no idea what you are talking about. Get you facts straight. If you live in Harrison you should be happy you have a paid fire department it's a great service they offer. (You are probably wondering why as a volunteer I would be supporting paid departments, well figure it out, we are a brotherhood, paid and volunteer, brothers may not always get along but firefigters stick together, the next time there is a fire in Harrison, Kearny or East Newark volunteers/paid guys will be there side by side getting the job done.)

Because I am very educated about the Fire Service. A captain is in charge of an apparatus and the men on that apparatus, when there is a fire the IC will tell the captain what he wants done then he takes his men/women into the situation and gets the job done. Often the captain will also have to take on the responsibility of being the IC if a chief is unavailable or multiple scenes are happening at the same time. You would be surprised probably how many times a day I hear on my scanner Harrison going out. I said maybe as a cost saving measure down the road, reduce the number of captains and add lieutenants. My suggestion was a BC per shit, only 1 captain on E-3 and a Lt on the Ladder and E-1. Instead of having 3 captains on duty. Having a paid FD is a great benefit. Because of the area we live in the initial minutes of a fire is vital. Kearny is stretched thin enough. They are already one of the largest mutual aid providers in the county and often they have multiple incidents at the same time. They couldn't just cover Harrison with their current man power without having serious safety concerns. Harrison FD is such a small fraction of Harrison's over all tax bill. Explain to me why Harrison's superintendent gets paid more then Kearny's? Focus on adjusting wages to proper levels for the work they do before you consider cutting safety.

I only answer and correct the facts to the portions I have direct knowledge about. I don't just make up facts like half the people on this site. (Go back and read all my posts you will see) Because I am not sure how many captains Harrison has I wouldn't dare to make up a number I could make a reasonable guess 15-20, but I advertise that as what it is a guess. I am not part of Harrison FD nor am I a politician. In terms of additional duties captains have they have a lot more responsibility both in regards to duties and in regards to the law. What are the duties of a Battalion Chief as opposed to a Deputy Chief. Well that varies from town to town. In Harrison the DC was an administrative position and the Battalion Chief was responsible for being the incident commander. The BC position made less money than the DC position (about 20K I believe, you could look that up from last year's numbers). The BC is responsible controlling a fire scene and running the day to day operations of the department. (This goes for Harrison, each towns ranks/responsibilities are different) Down the road when captains retire maybe Harrison should create the rank of Lieutenant. Have one BC on per shift. Captain on one of the rigs. The other rigs in service be commanded by Lt's. Lt's could be paid a little less. Could be a cost saving measure for the town in the long run.

Not sure how many total guys they have but I'll tell you what I KNOW is wrong. They only have: 1 Chief 4 Batalion Chiefs I can't figure out where you are getting 3 DC's from? They use to have 1 but when the layoff's came he retired. You discredit your whole post by citing things thats aren't true you know that? If you just make things up serious people don't care what you have to think.

I do not use drugs. I did not offer an opinion on the matter only did some research and why I googled Drug Testing in the workplace a number of hits came up involving privacy. So a logical assumption must be there is a privacy issue. Again I have not shared an opinion on that matter. But I would like to share a fallacy known as the slippery slope based on your response. (And I only do this because you accused me of being a drug user) Lets assume you are my neighbor. If you take drugs other than for a medical condition, you can not function in society to a normal degree and you may cause an accident and an innocent by stander may be hurt because of your drug use. (I can come up with some rather creative thoughts about the nature of these accidents) I believe that all my neighbors have more opportunity to be a danger to me and my family (simply because of proximity). All my neighbors should be randomly tested, if they refuse they must move out. If your dirty I don't want you living next to me. If your clean I want proof. The problem is with the legal system once you begin to make exceptions for certain circumstances you open the door to slippery slopes. Agreements between employers and employees allow for such testing. But if the employees as a whole fought it they would have legal ground based on privacy protection laws. I'm not saying who would win or who should win only there is legal grounds for it. (I exaggerated my argument only to make a point)

Still looking for these absurd videos. You got me very excited to watch them. Apparently they don't exist as I can't find them anywhere and you havn't yet responded. Most intelligent posts get ignored on this site. Anyone else ever notice that?

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/work/a/aa990203.htm It's a privacy issue... but here are some interesting this a simple google search found on the topic.

What videos?? I just looked all over the main page and I see no videos.

Thanks, I try not to post ignorant things. As a Kearny home owner/tax payer I to would love to see more residents hired. I for one just signed up for the most recent Fire Exam that should text in the late 2010/ early 2011. All I am saying and have been saying I am extremely disappointed with the unequal advantage other residents (mostly Newark) have to get a fire department job in this state. Being a Newark Resident allows you to be put on the top of the list for Newark and have an equal shot in Kearny and about 8 other towns. If you are a resident in Kearny or those other 8 or so towns for that matter you have no shot to compete against that individual in Newark for a job with their Fire Department. All I am saying is it seems to me an unfair advantage. For me to have a better shot to get hired by a fire department I should sell my house in Kearny (where I have lived my whole life) and move to Newark. To me it sounds like "Residential Discrimination". I am discriminated against by hiring practices in the state of NJ because of where I live. I know I could do the job and I know I could do it well!

Kearny just hired 5 firefighters. None of them was a female so she wouldn't be up to be laid off unless of course one (or some) of the recent 5 hires had a grevience against the town and got their senority upped. I didn't hear about this nor am I sure if it would even be made public but I do know things like that happen from time to time. Kearny did not have to open the books because lack of Kearny residents taking the polic and fire exams it was soley because of a settlement between the Town and the NCAAP. And to further that if say not enough Kearny residents took the test that woudln't prevent the town from hiring outside the town. Once a residential list is exhausted the town would have the right to goto a county list. So I don't see how this would be an issue still to give residents preference. I believe it should be in this order: Kearny Residents w/ Military Vet Status, then Kearny Residents, Then Hudson County residents, Then State List. (That would comply with Civil Service requirments if the town adopted that as an ordinance) You touch a state wide preference which I also believe nees to be adjusted. Absolute Military Preference. Currently in NJ if you have service in a combat zone you get Absolute hiring preference meaning all you do is have to pass the test and you get placed on the top. Most states (and the federal government for that matter) award bonus points. I believe its unfair if I get say a 99% on the state exam and a military vet gets a 70% they automatically go higher. Yes they served their country proudly and so I believe they deserve some extra credit for that but not absolute. My biggest beef though is with the double standard. That a Newark Resident can compete equally for a job in my town with me but I can not compete equally with them for a job in thier town. Explain that one to me? I am willing and able to serve my town (and state) as a career firefighter and its just unfair that I don't have an equal chance as others on the list.

Not true. Back in 1990 when the case first started the % of African American's living in Kearny was 1%. The lawsuit the NCAAP brought against and argued for was specific in the fact the Kearny was not hiring enough African Americans. Had nothing to do with other minorities. They argued essentially that Kearny was an economic extension of Newark which had a higher African American population and needed to expand it's list to higher more African Americans. The lawsuit that was brought against North Hudson was again specific saying they needed to expand because they weren't hiring enough African American's. Both lawsuits didn't have to do with the general minority demographic perspective. Go read the case law on both matters. I did before I commented. (Maybe you did but you didn't understand it fully) It's unfair that Kearny residents have to compete against all of Hudson/Essex county (which includes Newark residents) for KFD while Newark residents don't need to worry about competing against Kearny residents as they can't be hired for Newark FD. This is a double standard which I do not agree with.

I agree. I wrote to the mayor and council about this. Only heard back from the mayor but I did get a nice reponse. I encourage more residents to write in about this matter. Not only that if you are from this town you are going to care more about it. I once heard one firefighter say "I would not step in Kearny for 2 minutes unless they are paying me." This is one of the guys who are protecting our town? Understand this is a newer guy highered from out of town, not an older guy who was a resident and moved out of town, I doubt any of them would think of such a thing nevermind say it. North Hudson recently used some new case law fought the NCAAP in court and won back their right to hire only residents, why can't we?

I agree that paid departments obviously have a distinct advantage to volunteer departments. If you don't see that then you are being blind to the situation. But to be a firefighter you must be state certified. All volunteers in NJ attend the same (type) of academies as paid departments. Actually East Newark send their firefighters to the exact same academy that Kearny does they come out with the exact same certificate. I do not believe East Newark has ever had an issue of not being able to get an Engine or Ladder out. I've actually never heard of something like that being a problem. Do you know of a time this happened? Would like to hear about it. I've always been suprised on how good their response time is considering they are a volunteer department. Kearny doesn't respond to every one of East Newark and Harrison’s "calls" although they are on their first alarm's for confirmed fires. This has specifically to do with the size of their departments and having the proper number of manpower at the initial phase of structure fire. In the state of NJ you have a 2 in 2 out rule (I believe the state is changing this to required 3 man RIC team). You are right Kearny FD is an important part for all our neighboring towns. Towns these days have been forced to relay more and more on mutual aid. Kearny goes out to Belleville, JC, NA and North Hudson Cities for all major fires when needed. Jersey City has been forced to cut back on mutual aid because of shortages. I hope Kearny never is in that boat. Don’t let Davis Ave FH shut down!! If it does the safety of our residents will be in more danger! Oh and recently North Hudson fought the NCAAP and won to only allow their residents to be hired. Kearny/Harrison should be the same. We have enough willing and qualified canidates here in our town. The town should continue

Check your grammar before you make fun of a person or a group of people. It may carry a little more credibility then.

I'll believe this when I see it. And when you refer to the "uptown West Hudson area" only having 3 pumpers and 2 ladders you quickly ignored East Newark. Yes they are volunteers but they always have 2 more engines and a ladder in service within 5 minutes. Nevermind the fact that their first engine is usually out the door in about 2 minutes of a call. I do not want to see my paid fire department here in Kearny reduced in anyway. We need they as they provide an extremly important service to our town. Kearny has one of the most respected and well trained fire departments in the area and we should be proud of that. Just lets not ignore things because we want to make the situation sound more dire then it is. Alright?

The problem is I can't find any topics on Kearny. I go in the Kearny section and have to click, back button, click back button, it's terrible. If you won't create a section for other stuff. (You could even label it everything else or miscellaneous) Why did you even bother separating Kearny, Harrison, East Newark and North Arlington. You logic says if you start separate sections for national politics you would have to start separate sections for a "variety of topics". Which I believe is untrue and you will not. As the moderator you should be listening to what seems to be the overwhelming majority of readers want. I shall test out your logic. Since you already have separate topics for local municipalities I would like you to add some more. I would like ones on Newark, Lyndhurst, Jersey City, Rutherford, East Rutherford, Nutley and Clifton. According to your logic this should be ok. This is Kearny on the Web. I assume the Kearny section was created so people could easily access and discuss topics going on in Kearny. Unfortunately that is no longer the case.

I'm fine with them, but they have a proper place and its not under the Kearny section. A new one should be created. I often find myself clicking on them like "Just heard..." thinking it's about something happening in Kearny. Then as I read it has nothing to do with Kearny. Most of the topic names are written in such a way that I click on them because they could be about Kearny and they end up being some random bantor about National Politics. Which I'm fine with but doesn't have an appropriate home in a forum section dedicated to issues in Kearny. A new section must be created!!!! For the love of God KOTW please act!!

I've asked for this before. Your response makes little sense. When I click on the Kearny I expect to find threads about Kearny. When I click on Harrison I expect to find threads about Harrison. If I'm in the Kearny section and I click on a topic about the mayor and property taxes I don't expect to find a discussion about peanut butter as the topic heading had nothing to do with peanut butter. There should be a seperate header titled "United States" or "National Politics" right next to Kearny, Harrison, North Arlington and East Newark.

The Scots Club is a polling location? lol never knew that.