What Has Happened To Our Country?

[Guest 2smart4u]

Oh, believe me, I am far too familiar with the antics of Rush. Sometimes I listen to him just to make my blood boil. When he first started out here in Sacramento, although I never embraced his philosophy, I could at least appreciate that he was speaking his mind for the truth that he believed and accepted. Now, he is just a giant ball of hot air, so full of himself, who is so caught up in his "celebrity" that he has become the narrowist of the narrow. I live in Rio Linda-the town he still will make fun of on his radio show from time to time as being the "redneck" area of Sacramento, full of uneducated and uninformed people. "For those of you in Rio Linda...the 4th of July and Independence Day are the sam holiday". We have a Burger joint that has a Rush burger called the Big Mouth-aptly named. What amazes me is the power he has over the masses of people who listen to him. Talk about Kool-Aid drinkers!

Paul, it is truly amazing that your imaginary friend "Kris" shares all your thoughts and opinions on everything, even Rush. Who would have ever imagined

that someone living in CA. would discover KOTW and mirror your philosophy and politics exactly. She's even familiar with the Kool-Aid expression. I guess it really is a small world.

[Guest Paul]

Oh, believe me, I am far too familiar with the antics of Rush. Sometimes I listen to him just to make my blood boil. When he first started out here in Sacramento, although I never embraced his philosophy, I could at least appreciate that he was speaking his mind for the truth that he believed and accepted. Now, he is just a giant ball of hot air, so full of himself, who is so caught up in his "celebrity" that he has become the narrowist of the narrow. I live in Rio Linda-the town he still will make fun of on his radio show from time to time as being the "redneck" area of Sacramento, full of uneducated and uninformed people. "For those of you in Rio Linda...the 4th of July and Independence Day are the sam holiday". We have a Burger joint that has a Rush burger called the Big Mouth-aptly named. What amazes me is the power he has over the masses of people who listen to him. Talk about Kool-Aid drinkers!

I have people in my extended family, very close to me, who swear by the guy. I don't understand that. It's so obvious that he makes things up. Twenty years ago I saw his program on TV. He made one of his usual ridiculous remarks. This was followed by uproarious laughter from an audience that obviously had no idea whether his remarks had any basis in fact, and didn't care; all they cared about was that people they didn't understand were demeaned. Meanwhile, Limbaugh sat basking in the glory of his faux brilliance. If pressed to say which scares me more, him or his audiences, I'm not sure.

Growing up, I never thought I'd see the USA come to this, but it has. The question now is, how do we get out of it? How do we restore the classic liberal ethic that made this country the model for the world, even through all our failures?

[Manscape]

Oh, believe me, I am far too familiar with the antics of Rush. Sometimes I listen to him just to make my blood boil. When he first started out here in Sacramento, although I never embraced his philosophy, I could at least appreciate that he was speaking his mind for the truth that he believed and accepted. Now, he is just a giant ball of hot air, so full of himself, who is so caught up in his "celebrity" that he has become the narrowist of the narrow. I live in Rio Linda-the town he still will make fun of on his radio show from time to time as being the "redneck" area of Sacramento, full of uneducated and uninformed people. "For those of you in Rio Linda...the 4th of July and Independence Day are the sam holiday". We have a Burger joint that has a Rush burger called the Big Mouth-aptly named. What amazes me is the power he has over the masses of people who listen to him. Talk about Kool-Aid drinkers!

Hello Kris. Thanks for the Rush sh*t rundown...........and if there was anyone good to be run down, it's el Rish Nit, jerkoff magnifico.

I recall when radio Rish Bit had a week or more of damage control in the early 90s when it was revealed he never voted until his mid thirties, this after bellowing his radio ersatz patriotism to a growing cult of gullibles. He squirms like a maggot shed to the noontime sun, believe me.......

(why does America worship frauds?)

Rish Limpie........American fascist propaganda........the daily dose of audio bullsh*t trusting U.S. military personel were forced fed in Iraqi mess tents for years......got to keep the mind right, yes? Killing countless Iraqis to free/democratize Iraq takes a real man on the radio to clarion.........

Oxycotin Rishbane......doctor shopping......pleabargaining......thrice divorced am I right? Perhaps the bigotry of a ghoul sapped his dick limp, doing wonders for the promotion of Viagra as well as American greed and jingoism?

El Blowhard Rishnitz......American jerkoff......symbol of the nation's suicide? Why not?

[Guest Guest]

Paul, it is truly amazing that your imaginary friend "Kris" shares all your thoughts and opinions on everything, even Rush. Who would have ever imagined

that someone living in CA. would discover KOTW and mirror your philosophy and politics exactly. She's even familiar with the Kool-Aid expression. I guess it really is a small world.

There are no small worlds, only small minds.

[Guest Patriot]

Hello Kris. Thanks for the Rush sh*t rundown...........and if there was anyone good to be run down, it's el Rish Nit, jerkoff magnifico.

I recall when radio Rish Bit had a week or more of damage control in the early 90s when it was revealed he never voted until his mid thirties, this after bellowing his radio ersatz patriotism to a growing cult of gullibles. He squirms like a maggot shed to the noontime sun, believe me.......

(why does America worship frauds?)

Rish Limpie........American fascist propaganda........the daily dose of audio bullsh*t trusting U.S. military personel were forced fed in Iraqi mess tents for years......got to keep the mind right, yes? Killing countless Iraqis to free/democratize Iraq takes a real man on the radio to clarion.........

Oxycotin Rishbane......doctor shopping......pleabargaining......thrice divorced am I right? Perhaps the bigotry of a ghoul sapped his dick limp, doing wonders for the promotion of Viagra as well as American greed and jingoism?

El Blowhard Rishnitz......American jerkoff......symbol of the nation's suicide? Why not?

Do everyone a favor and choke yourself.

[Kris]

I have people in my extended family, very close to me, who swear by the guy. I don't understand that. It's so obvious that he makes things up. Twenty years ago I saw his program on TV. He made one of his usual ridiculous remarks. This was followed by uproarious laughter from an audience that obviously had no idea whether his remarks had any basis in fact, and didn't care; all they cared about was that people they didn't understand were demeaned. Meanwhile, Limbaugh sat basking in the glory of his faux brilliance. If pressed to say which scares me more, him or his audiences, I'm not sure.

Growing up, I never thought I'd see the USA come to this, but it has. The question now is, how do we get out of it? How do we restore the classic liberal ethic that made this country the model for the world, even through all our failures?

I guess they call his followers "dittoheads" for a reason. They obviously have no ability to think for themselves and hang on his every word as gospel truth. I also have several family members (including my former husband) who listened to him faithfully and really believed he had the pulse on the nation's problems and how to solve them. There is something charismatic abut the way he speaks that is like an opiate to his followers. Perhaps it is because he speaks so arrogantly that what he says is mistaken for knowledge because he comes across with such a confidant air. I grew up in a very conservative household and most of my family members are conservatives-proof that children learn with what they live. I persoanlly don't' know how people can stomach listening to someone who pats himself on the back as much as Rush does. Calling his show the EIB network and "talent on loan from God" quotes and other such egotistical remarks. I really can't understand how anyone can swallow that and not feel sick at their stomach. But, people who only have what they know and understand as the basis of all reality in the world have brought this country to it's present state.

As far as the question of how to get out of this? I wish I had the answer, but I'm happy to see this conversation heading in that direction, which is the reason I came here in the first place. I think the only answer is education. People need to be taught that it's okay to question authority, research and earn knowledge for themselves. We accept too readily the opinions of others, and people want so badly to be accepted by their loved ones and peers that they are willing to sacrifice their curiosity and desire for truth to be one of the masses. I am fairly new to the liberal, freethinking mentality myself. I grew up with people who all thought the same way so it never occurred to me to question anything when I was young and when I got old enough to have thoughts of my own, I dismissed them as being wrong or I was told they were wrong by someone else who never thought to question it. I remember when I started doing theatre and one of the shows I did was "Fiddler on the Roof". I played the daughter who marries the rebel but it was interesting to watch the story unfold as the father Tevye struggles to let go of his traditions one by one as his daughters one by one go against the grain of what is right and accepted in their community. He speaks proudly of these "Traditions" but admits that he does not know why they exist-they just do. I think that is the spell that our country is under, but the mistake is that so many of the "truths" that people are clinging to are not the values this country was built on. They think they are but they are misimformed and for some reason lack the desire or fortitude to do the research to enlighten themselves. I think many are afraid of the truth because that would mean they would have to totally reexamine their life (as I had done) and for some the cost is too great for that, so they would rather just go on "believing" something even if they know it might not be true. Or like Rush, ( and 2smartforU) they don't care what the real truth is, if it doesn't fit their agenda. With information so readily available as it is these days, there is really no excuse for this ignorance. What are your thoughts?

[Guest Guest]

Do everyone a favor and choke yourself.

Amen, brother. We'll all pray for that.

[Guest Paul]

I guess they call his followers "dittoheads" for a reason. They obviously have no ability to think for themselves and hang on his every word as gospel truth. I also have several family members (including my former husband) who listened to him faithfully and really believed he had the pulse on the nation's problems and how to solve them. There is something charismatic abut the way he speaks that is like an opiate to his followers. Perhaps it is because he speaks so arrogantly that what he says is mistaken for knowledge because he comes across with such a confidant air. I grew up in a very conservative household and most of my family members are conservatives-proof that children learn with what they live. I persoanlly don't' know how people can stomach listening to someone who pats himself on the back as much as Rush does. Calling his show the EIB network and "talent on loan from God" quotes and other such egotistical remarks. I really can't understand how anyone can swallow that and not feel sick at their stomach. But, people who only have what they know and understand as the basis of all reality in the world have brought this country to it's present state.

As far as the question of how to get out of this? I wish I had the answer, but I'm happy to see this conversation heading in that direction, which is the reason I came here in the first place. I think the only answer is education. People need to be taught that it's okay to question authority, research and earn knowledge for themselves. We accept too readily the opinions of others, and people want so badly to be accepted by their loved ones and peers that they are willing to sacrifice their curiosity and desire for truth to be one of the masses. I am fairly new to the liberal, freethinking mentality myself. I grew up with people who all thought the same way so it never occurred to me to question anything when I was young and when I got old enough to have thoughts of my own, I dismissed them as being wrong or I was told they were wrong by someone else who never thought to question it. I remember when I started doing theatre and one of the shows I did was "Fiddler on the Roof". I played the daughter who marries the rebel but it was interesting to watch the story unfold as the father Tevye struggles to let go of his traditions one by one as his daughters one by one go against the grain of what is right and accepted in their community. He speaks proudly of these "Traditions" but admits that he does not know why they exist-they just do. I think that is the spell that our country is under, but the mistake is that so many of the "truths" that people are clinging to are not the values this country was built on. They think they are but they are misimformed and for some reason lack the desire or fortitude to do the research to enlighten themselves. I think many are afraid of the truth because that would mean they would have to totally reexamine their life (as I had done) and for some the cost is too great for that, so they would rather just go on "believing" something even if they know it might not be true. Or like Rush, ( and 2smartforU) they don't care what the real truth is, if it doesn't fit their agenda. With information so readily available as it is these days, there is really no excuse for this ignorance. What are your thoughts?

What I think is that I can't believe what happened to my country during my lifetime. We became petty, selfish and stupid. (Limbaugh embodies all of that.) When I was a kid in elementary school, my teachers - in a rural community in Michigan - taught us the classic civic virtues. Those were the virtues that made the American dream possible for the vast majority. We've turned our backs on that in the name of looking out for "number one" and getting what we can for ourselves in the short term. I'm still in shock that the American people turned their backs on what I learned in the third grade. What the hell happened?

The tragic irony is that we dug ourselves into a hole. It wasn't in our self interest, and the current crisis is the proof of that.

[Guest Paul]

I guess they call his followers "dittoheads" for a reason. They obviously have no ability to think for themselves and hang on his every word as gospel truth. I also have several family members (including my former husband) who listened to him faithfully and really believed he had the pulse on the nation's problems and how to solve them. There is something charismatic abut the way he speaks that is like an opiate to his followers. Perhaps it is because he speaks so arrogantly that what he says is mistaken for knowledge because he comes across with such a confidant air. I grew up in a very conservative household and most of my family members are conservatives-proof that children learn with what they live. I persoanlly don't' know how people can stomach listening to someone who pats himself on the back as much as Rush does. Calling his show the EIB network and "talent on loan from God" quotes and other such egotistical remarks. I really can't understand how anyone can swallow that and not feel sick at their stomach. But, people who only have what they know and understand as the basis of all reality in the world have brought this country to it's present state.

As far as the question of how to get out of this? I wish I had the answer, but I'm happy to see this conversation heading in that direction, which is the reason I came here in the first place. I think the only answer is education. People need to be taught that it's okay to question authority, research and earn knowledge for themselves. We accept too readily the opinions of others, and people want so badly to be accepted by their loved ones and peers that they are willing to sacrifice their curiosity and desire for truth to be one of the masses. I am fairly new to the liberal, freethinking mentality myself. I grew up with people who all thought the same way so it never occurred to me to question anything when I was young and when I got old enough to have thoughts of my own, I dismissed them as being wrong or I was told they were wrong by someone else who never thought to question it. I remember when I started doing theatre and one of the shows I did was "Fiddler on the Roof". I played the daughter who marries the rebel but it was interesting to watch the story unfold as the father Tevye struggles to let go of his traditions one by one as his daughters one by one go against the grain of what is right and accepted in their community. He speaks proudly of these "Traditions" but admits that he does not know why they exist-they just do. I think that is the spell that our country is under, but the mistake is that so many of the "truths" that people are clinging to are not the values this country was built on. They think they are but they are misimformed and for some reason lack the desire or fortitude to do the research to enlighten themselves. I think many are afraid of the truth because that would mean they would have to totally reexamine their life (as I had done) and for some the cost is too great for that, so they would rather just go on "believing" something even if they know it might not be true. Or like Rush, ( and 2smartforU) they don't care what the real truth is, if it doesn't fit their agenda. With information so readily available as it is these days, there is really no excuse for this ignorance. What are your thoughts?

Like you, I came from a relatively conservative background, Roman Catholic, son of a farmer and a farmer's wife. Three older sisters. Church every Sunday, sang in the choir with Dad (great memories, especially midnight masses on Christmas and Easter). Chicken dinner had been clucking in the pen a couple hours earlier.

As a young man, I can remember literally blocking thoughts because the church forbade them as heresy - so I wouldn't think them. As a college student, I had a girlfriend who played Chava in "Fiddler." It's a great story, a genuine heartbreaker for dozens of reasons. "How can I hope to make you understand . . ." "God knows when we will see each other again." And then of course, "If I bend that far, I will break!" I found out the truth doesn't break us, it makes us stronger.

Two of my early mentors were my college roommates, along with most of the other guys on the 8th floor at South Quad, U of Michigan fall 1972 - spring 1973. Both my roommates were Jewish. (My best friend on the hall was a Sikh who wore a turban first term.) In my little farming community, we had heard about such people, but I'm not sure I really beleived in them. They were great guys, and living with them forced me to ask: "Why is my religion better than theirs." When I had no good answer, that was the beginning of the end of my days as a theist.

Does that mean that I'm more open than most people who cling to their beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence? More objective than average? Maybe. I know it doesn't mean what many people here insist on thinking it means - I never had a rebellious period, I just followed the evidence where it led me, once I allowed myself the freedom to do that. Most of the reactions to people like you and me are just projections into a mirror.

On the one hand, I want to respect theistic belief, but on the other hand all I can respect is the right to believe it. I can't respect its content because there's no merit to it, in my opinion. I don't mean any disrespect by that, we are more than the sum of our beliefs; it's just where the facts lead me.

I suppose all we can do is keep writing and talking, with each other and to others who don't (yet) share our views. I do think that if non-theism reaches a critical mass it will become more prevalent. For now, I would like no American president ever to say again, with complete impunity, that an atheist isn't a good American, as both Bushes did. To me, that's abominable, and what's even more abominable is knowing that the American people didn't care, not one bit.

[Guest 2smart4u]

I have people in my extended family, very close to me, who swear by the guy. I don't understand that. It's so obvious that he makes things up. Twenty years ago I saw his program on TV. He made one of his usual ridiculous remarks. This was followed by uproarious laughter from an audience that obviously had no idea whether his remarks had any basis in fact, and didn't care; all they cared about was that people they didn't understand were demeaned. Meanwhile, Limbaugh sat basking in the glory of his faux brilliance. If pressed to say which scares me more, him or his audiences, I'm not sure.

Growing up, I never thought I'd see the USA come to this, but it has. The question now is, how do we get out of it? How do we restore the classic liberal ethic that made this country the model for the world, even through all our failures?

Limbaugh happens to be one of our greatest conservative heros. He gives you the unspun truth and his vast audience recognizes that. But of course you're right and his millions of listeners are all wrong. And as far as restoring the "classic liberal ethic", forget it. Your's is a dying breed and you'll be just a footnote in history.

[Guest 2smart4u]

What I think is that I can't believe what happened to my country during my lifetime. We became petty, selfish and stupid. (Limbaugh embodies all of that.) When I was a kid in elementary school, my teachers - in a rural community in Michigan - taught us the classic civic virtues. Those were the virtues that made the American dream possible for the vast majority. We've turned our backs on that in the name of looking out for "number one" and getting what we can for ourselves in the short term. I'm still in shock that the American people turned their backs on what I learned in the third grade. What the hell happened?

The tragic irony is that we dug ourselves into a hole. It wasn't in our self interest, and the current crisis is the proof of that.

What the hell happened? The left discovered Kool-Aid is what happened.

[Manscape]

Limbaugh happens to be one of our greatest conservative heros. He gives you the unspun truth and his vast audience recognizes that. But of course you're right and his millions of listeners are all wrong. And as far as restoring the "classic liberal ethic", forget it. Your's is a dying breed and you'll be just a footnote in history.

TOOBY!!!

Your party is a trainwreck and the nation by its hands, worse.

Naughty Naughty Naughty..........YOUR PENANCE???

READ THIS ONE HUNDRED TIMES WHILE KNEELING ON THE NEW SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF SAINT ANTHONY'S EAST NEWARK, NJ!!

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...ost&p=93916

[Guest *Autonomous*]

Limbaugh happens to be one of our greatest conservative heros. He gives you the unspun truth and his vast audience recognizes that. But of course you're right and his millions of listeners are all wrong. And as far as restoring the "classic liberal ethic", forget it. Your's is a dying breed and you'll be just a footnote in history.

Forget the last two elections already?

[Guest Guest]

Limbaugh happens to be one of our greatest conservative heros. He gives you the unspun truth and his vast audience recognizes that. But of course you're right and his millions of listeners are all wrong. And as far as restoring the "classic liberal ethic", forget it. Your's is a dying breed and you'll be just a footnote in history.

When he accused Colin Powell of endorsing Obama based on race, that wasn't unspun truth. He just didn't like the endorsement.

When he accused Michael J. Fox of faking his motor problems, that wasn't unspun truth. He just made it up because Fox was saying things he didn't want to hear.

When he talks about the economy, it's all right wing spin. He ignores all the facts that don't support his predetermined conclusions.

Rush Limbaugh makes a lot of money playing to ignorance. There's a big market for ignorance, unfortunately. Spin yourself a story and you don't have to think.

His vast audiences elected George W. Bush, twice, and we see how that turned out. Senator Franken had it right. Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot.

[Kris]

Limbaugh happens to be one of our greatest conservative heros. He gives you the unspun truth and his vast audience recognizes that. But of course you're right and his millions of listeners are all wrong. And as far as restoring the "classic liberal ethic", forget it. Your's is a dying breed and you'll be just a footnote in history.

No-the million of people who listen to him are just brainwashed as you seem to be. He says the same things over and over again until you start thinking they are true-especially if you never listen to the other side of things. The only talent he appears to have is a gift for gab and a power to intoxicate the weak minded. Kind of like a cult leader wouldn't you say?

[Kris]

Like you, I came from a relatively conservative background, Roman Catholic, son of a farmer and a farmer's wife. Three older sisters. Church every Sunday, sang in the choir with Dad (great memories, especially midnight masses on Christmas and Easter). Chicken dinner had been clucking in the pen a couple hours earlier.

As a young man, I can remember literally blocking thoughts because the church forbade them as heresy - so I wouldn't think them. As a college student, I had a girlfriend who played Chava in "Fiddler." It's a great story, a genuine heartbreaker for dozens of reasons. "How can I hope to make you understand . . ." "God knows when we will see each other again." And then of course, "If I bend that far, I will break!" I found out the truth doesn't break us, it makes us stronger.

Two of my early mentors were my college roommates, along with most of the other guys on the 8th floor at South Quad, U of Michigan fall 1972 - spring 1973. Both my roommates were Jewish. (My best friend on the hall was a Sikh who wore a turban first term.) In my little farming community, we had heard about such people, but I'm not sure I really beleived in them. They were great guys, and living with them forced me to ask: "Why is my religion better than theirs." When I had no good answer, that was the beginning of the end of my days as a theist.

Does that mean that I'm more open than most people who cling to their beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence? More objective than average? Maybe. I know it doesn't mean what many people here insist on thinking it means - I never had a rebellious period, I just followed the evidence where it led me, once I allowed myself the freedom to do that. Most of the reactions to people like you and me are just projections into a mirror.

On the one hand, I want to respect theistic belief, but on the other hand all I can respect is the right to believe it. I can't respect its content because there's no merit to it, in my opinion. I don't mean any disrespect by that, we are more than the sum of our beliefs; it's just where the facts lead me.

I suppose all we can do is keep writing and talking, with each other and to others who don't (yet) share our views. I do think that if non-theism reaches a critical mass it will become more prevalent. For now, I would like no American president ever to say again, with complete impunity, that an atheist isn't a good American, as both Bushes did. To me, that's abominable, and what's even more abominable is knowing that the American people didn't care, not one bit.

I have found that my journey toward freethought has been the most liberating experience of my life. I was amazed at the amount of guilt and anxiety I was carrying around when I was a believer. It felt like the greatest burden was lifted and I was now free to make choices based on my own sense of morality and I found my decisions to be much more pratical and sound minded. I also became a much more kind and charitable person. It became easier to understand and forgive others because I had finally been able to forgive myself. That anger and self righteousness that is so ever present in some right ring believers is just that sense of false arrogance and pride that they need to stay on top of themselves as they constantly fall below their own expectations. The Christian philosophy is an impossible feat for humanity and believers are constantly having to be at odds with themselves about their own shortcomings. It makes them harsh and judgmental because they are trying so hard not to have their own weaknesses exposed.

I do respect some Christians (and know some) who try and live their life according to their creed. The problem I see most often is most of them are very good at being hypocritical. The bible tells them not to see the speck in their brother's eye but that is what so many of them do. They are more interested in the behavior of others than they are at improving themselves. I do not recall the remarks made by Bush senior because I was at that time, a believer, so I probably paid it no mind. Just goes to show you how people pay no attention to issues that don't effect them directly.

I learned alot about my humanity from my years in musical theatre. The song from South Pacific still rings strong in my ears "you've got to be taught to hate and fear, you've got to be taught from year to year, it's got to be drummed in your dear little ear...you've got to be taught before it's too late. Before you are six or seven or eight-to hate all the people your relatives hate..." Sad but true. When I see how young children are indoctrinated before they are even old enough to have thoughts of their own. I remember in the church watching children 4 and 5 years old walking up to the front of the church to be "saved" and their parents telling me it was their choice. No 5 year old makes a choice like that without being pressured by someone. My ex husband (who was still with the church at the time of our separation) had our 9 year old daughter endure an underwater baptism against her will because he wanted to look good for the church.

Like I said, I think people have to realize it okay to question, to disagree and as Jiminy Cricket always chirped "let your conscience be your guide" It's okay to trust your instincts, question authority and seek your own answers. Well meaning people who have passed on what they know to you may not realize that they have been misinformed as well.

[Kris]

What I think is that I can't believe what happened to my country during my lifetime. We became petty, selfish and stupid. (Limbaugh embodies all of that.) When I was a kid in elementary school, my teachers - in a rural community in Michigan - taught us the classic civic virtues. Those were the virtues that made the American dream possible for the vast majority. We've turned our backs on that in the name of looking out for "number one" and getting what we can for ourselves in the short term. I'm still in shock that the American people turned their backs on what I learned in the third grade. What the hell happened?

The tragic irony is that we dug ourselves into a hole. It wasn't in our self interest, and the current crisis is the proof of that.

What were the classic civil virtues? Respect others as you would want to be respected? This sort of thing? Conservatives like my parents state that the current crisis erupted from a loss of values, people doing their own thing and not adhering to authority and that schools today totally lack discipline and structure. I can somewhat see their point coming from their perspective and the persepctive for which I was raised. My parents did teach me a good value system even if it comes from a somewhat narrow minded point of view. Like poor old Tevye, they believe that we keep changing the boundaries of what is right, decent and moral. Where do we draw the line? How do we maintain a free society without everything running amok? Are the laws of humanity of respect one another enough to keep the human race from coming unraveled?

[Guest Patriot]

When he accused Colin Powell of endorsing Obama based on race, that wasn't unspun truth. He just didn't like the endorsement.

When he accused Michael J. Fox of faking his motor problems, that wasn't unspun truth. He just made it up because Fox was saying things he didn't want to hear.

When he talks about the economy, it's all right wing spin. He ignores all the facts that don't support his predetermined conclusions.

Rush Limbaugh makes a lot of money playing to ignorance. There's a big market for ignorance, unfortunately. Spin yourself a story and you don't have to think.

His vast audiences elected George W. Bush, twice, and we see how that turned out. Senator Franken had it right. Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot.

Colin Powell DID endose Obama because of his race, no question about it.

Don't know enough about this to comment.

He's absolutely right on the economy.

Nonsensical statement.

Bush kept us safe since 9/11, history will remember him as a great president. A little quiz for you (an easy one since you're stupid). What man has saved more people on earth than any other man in the history of the world? Give up? Answer: George W. Bush. (In sub-Saharan Africa alone he has saved millions of people with his AIDS initiatives. You won't read this in the NY Slimes).

[Guest Paul]

I have found that my journey toward freethought has been the most liberating experience of my life. I was amazed at the amount of guilt and anxiety I was carrying around when I was a believer. It felt like the greatest burden was lifted and I was now free to make choices based on my own sense of morality and I found my decisions to be much more pratical and sound minded. I also became a much more kind and charitable person. It became easier to understand and forgive others because I had finally been able to forgive myself. That anger and self righteousness that is so ever present in some right ring believers is just that sense of false arrogance and pride that they need to stay on top of themselves as they constantly fall below their own expectations. The Christian philosophy is an impossible feat for humanity and believers are constantly having to be at odds with themselves about their own shortcomings. It makes them harsh and judgmental because they are trying so hard not to have their own weaknesses exposed.

I do respect some Christians (and know some) who try and live their life according to their creed. The problem I see most often is most of them are very good at being hypocritical. The bible tells them not to see the speck in their brother's eye but that is what so many of them do. They are more interested in the behavior of others than they are at improving themselves. I do not recall the remarks made by Bush senior because I was at that time, a believer, so I probably paid it no mind. Just goes to show you how people pay no attention to issues that don't effect them directly.

I learned alot about my humanity from my years in musical theatre. The song from South Pacific still rings strong in my ears "you've got to be taught to hate and fear, you've got to be taught from year to year, it's got to be drummed in your dear little ear...you've got to be taught before it's too late. Before you are six or seven or eight-to hate all the people your relatives hate..." Sad but true. When I see how young children are indoctrinated before they are even old enough to have thoughts of their own. I remember in the church watching children 4 and 5 years old walking up to the front of the church to be "saved" and their parents telling me it was their choice. No 5 year old makes a choice like that without being pressured by someone. My ex husband (who was still with the church at the time of our separation) had our 9 year old daughter endure an underwater baptism against her will because he wanted to look good for the church.

Like I said, I think people have to realize it okay to question, to disagree and as Jiminy Cricket always chirped "let your conscience be your guide" It's okay to trust your instincts, question authority and seek your own answers. Well meaning people who have passed on what they know to you may not realize that they have been misinformed as well.

I'm not such a great person all the time, but I'm a much better person today than I was when I was a practicing Catholic. A main reason, I think, is that letting go of myth-based beliefs forces me to confront the fact that the buck stops with me. There are no stories to take false comfort in and no fabled mediators for values. Courage is courage, you either exhibit it or you don't; the same is true of all the good values, like responsibility, compassion, wisdom and even Love.

For the responsible Humanist, life isn't a matter of judging. It's a creative opportunity in every moment. Many Christians live that way, but I don't believe their theology helps them do it. They are free to believe as they choose, and I'm free to disagree.

I think we need to be more honest with ourselves and stop running for cover under comforting stories, especially when many of those stories are demonstrably false. Confront the world on its own terms, stop trying to judge it or put it into a box so we can imagine that we understand it (even though we don't), and live according to good values. If we do that, we'll be as well off as we can be. If we don't, then we're going to have problems.

[Guest 2smart4u]

No-the million of people who listen to him are just brainwashed as you seem to be. He says the same things over and over again until you start thinking they are true-especially if you never listen to the other side of things. The only talent he appears to have is a gift for gab and a power to intoxicate the weak minded. Kind of like a cult leader wouldn't you say?

"the millions of people who listen to him are just brainwashed". Quite a statement, and you know this how? *

* I hadn't formed an opinion on your intelligence until now. I'm not impressed.

[Guest Paul]

What were the classic civil virtues? Respect others as you would want to be respected? This sort of thing? Conservatives like my parents state that the current crisis erupted from a loss of values, people doing their own thing and not adhering to authority and that schools today totally lack discipline and structure. I can somewhat see their point coming from their perspective and the persepctive for which I was raised. My parents did teach me a good value system even if it comes from a somewhat narrow minded point of view. Like poor old Tevye, they believe that we keep changing the boundaries of what is right, decent and moral. Where do we draw the line? How do we maintain a free society without everything running amok? Are the laws of humanity of respect one another enough to keep the human race from coming unraveled?

I believe these are among the classic civic virtues:

1. Do for your country. We have lost that ethic in the era of greed that began when the idealism of the 50s and 60s gave way to the cynicism and self-absorption that has characterized every decade since.

2. Value and honor everyone, not just those in power or in the majority. Recognize that majority rule has limits in a Constitutional democracy with a bill of rights.

3. Think long-term, not just short-term. The corporate anti-ethic of greed has made today's bottom line more important than long-term planning. That is why we have squandered our wealth, wasted our precious natural resources and put the long-term welfare of the human species in serious jeopardy.

4. Pay attention in school. Do things according to proven principles. We have largely abandoned that with the consumer and instant-gratification society that we built on the unstable foundation of the short-term bottom line.

5. Respect the rule of law and the erudition of judges. These past few decades have been an era of growing disrespect for the law. Beginning with Reagan, the right wing has politicized the courts and damaged our judicial system in ways that will take decades to repair, if it is ever repaired at all.

Historians may call the Reagan era a conservative era, but in fact it has not been conservative; it has been radical and myopic. Historians will judge it as an era of greed, myopia and irresponsibility, in which the United States squandered its wealth and standing in the world in the interests of short-term gain. Instead of investing in the future, we sought the quick buck. Instead of developing new and sustainable energy sources, we guzzled oil and gas. This has been perhaps the most irresponsible period in our history, and we can only hope that it truly is over and that our new President will lead us around the right corners.

Of course, it's all about respecting others, treating others as you would wish to be treated. In my model of Humanism, the core intellectual principle is Truth: more specifically, the Truth of our common humanity. That is the Truth upon which the Golden Rule and all its variations are built. If you really think about it, you realize that if people followed that one simple and basic Truth, there would be no racism, no ethnic division, no unjustified discrimination of any kind. There would be a world in which people lived together peacably. Everyone would be better off. We were starting to build that kind of society but it got sidetracked. Let's hope we can get it back on track. I intend to support President Obama in this quest whenever I think he's doing the right thing; and if he isn't, then I intend to speak out.

[Guest Guest]

Colin Powell DID endose Obama because of his race, no question about it.

Don't know enough about this to comment.

He's absolutely right on the economy.

Nonsensical statement.

Bush kept us safe since 9/11, history will remember him as a great president. A little quiz for you (an easy one since you're stupid). What man has saved more people on earth than any other man in the history of the world? Give up? Answer: George W. Bush. (In sub-Saharan Africa alone he has saved millions of people with his AIDS initiatives. You won't read this in the NY Slimes).

f**k off! GWB is a war criminal. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[Kris]

"the millions of people who listen to him are just brainwashed". Quite a statement, and you know this how? *

* I hadn't formed an opinion on your intelligence until now. I'm not impressed.

I used to be one of them, that's how.

The fact that you ae not impressed by my intelligence is a compliment of the highest order. I accept.

[Guest Guest]

"the millions of people who listen to him are just brainwashed". Quite a statement, and you know this how? *

* I hadn't formed an opinion on your intelligence until now. I'm not impressed.

We know because they repeat the stupid remarks he feeds them, even though they're not true, all the way from talking points on the economy and the war to slogans like "loony lefties."

[Guest Guest]

I'm not such a great person all the time, but I'm a much better person today than I was when I was a practicing Catholic. A main reason, I think, is that letting go of myth-based beliefs forces me to confront the fact that the buck stops with me. There are no stories to take false comfort in and no fabled mediators for values. Courage is courage, you either exhibit it or you don't; the same is true of all the good values, like responsibility, compassion, wisdom and even Love.

For the responsible Humanist, life isn't a matter of judging. It's a creative opportunity in every moment. Many Christians live that way, but I don't believe their theology helps them do it. They are free to believe as they choose, and I'm free to disagree.

I think we need to be more honest with ourselves and stop running for cover under comforting stories, especially when many of those stories are demonstrably false. Confront the world on its own terms, stop trying to judge it or put it into a box so we can imagine that we understand it (even though we don't), and live according to good values. If we do that, we'll be as well off as we can be. If we don't, then we're going to have problems.

As a lawyer you must have to do some unpleasant things to win your cases, how do you resolve this issue with being a Humanist?