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Autonomous

Love freedom? Thank a vet

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Today I had the privilege of attending the Veterans Day Celebration on Kearny Ave. I was amazed that only a hand full of people were there, to honor our vets. I am disabled, but I made it there because I wanted to say Thank You, for fighting for me and mine, so we could live the way we do. I wish that more people felt that way, but apparently they don't. So to all the vets that are on this forum I say Thank You!

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Guest Patriot
As you enjoy your long Veteran's Day weekend, please take a moment to thank a war veteran for their service. It will mean a lot to them and requires little effort on your part.

73061[/snapback]

Thank you, Autonomous. You're not a doofus all the time.

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Guest Guest
As you enjoy your long Veteran's Day weekend, please take a moment to thank a war veteran for their service. It will mean a lot to them and requires little effort on your part.

73061[/snapback]

As Paul and Strife will point out, thanking a Vet is not what it means to be patriotic. Same as standing for the pledge.

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Guest Patriot
As Paul and Strife will point out, thanking a Vet is not what it means to be patriotic.  Same as standing for the pledge.

73239[/snapback]

Paul and Strife's idea of patriotism is denying the existence of God.

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As Paul and Strife will point out, thanking a Vet is not what it means to be patriotic.  Same as standing for the pledge.

73239[/snapback]

It's kind of a middle-ground...while no active action is being taken (so I'd say "technically not really patriotic"), it definitely isn't ultimately pointless the way reciting a bunch of words by rote is. Veterans are actual people, who made actual sacrifices, and showing gratitude for that is a Good Thing™, I think. :)

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Paul and Strife's idea of patriotism is denying the existence of God.

73701[/snapback]

All that conspiracy theory has taught you to string together unrelated things, I see.

Patriotism is action. Chanting/memorization makes no difference in the end. And theism or the lack of it is completely irrelevant.

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Guest Guest
Paul and Strife's idea of patriotism is denying the existence of God.

73701[/snapback]

And YOU have NO idea whatsoever of what constitutes patriotism.

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Guest Paul
As Paul and Strife will point out, thanking a Vet is not what it means to be patriotic.  Same as standing for the pledge.

73239[/snapback]

It's not the same thing at all. Thanking a Vet is a personal act directed specifically toward a person who served. It's individualized, not rote. The great beauty of it is, it's entirely voluntary.

It is true, however, that thanking others for serving our country is not enough to make someone a patriot. To earn that honored title, we must also serve, each of us in our own way, from being the best butcher, baker or candlestickmaker we can be to raising a family to paying our taxes. There are probably millions of ways to be patriotic.

Attacking those few individuals who say things the majority doesn't want to hear isn't among them. That undermines the foundation of our democracy. There's nothing --- no-thing --- patriotic about that. On the contrary, it's slap in the face to our revolutionary fathers and mothers who pledged their lives and their sacred honor to establish freedom in this land. They may be long dead, but if we continue to forget the lessons of their service, we will eventually lose the freedom they fought so hard, deliberated so carefully and thought so deeply and brilliantly to establish.

It's a pity people like this "Guest" are more interested in being angry than they are in thinking.

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Guest Guest
It's kind of a middle-ground...while no active action is being taken (so I'd say "technically not really patriotic"), it definitely isn't ultimately pointless the way reciting a bunch of words by rote is. Veterans are actual people, who made actual sacrifices, and showing gratitude for that is a Good Thing™, I think. :)

73928[/snapback]

Since you are not a Vet you would have no idea what these brave individuals went through. Your pointless words daily are just a reflection of how very ignorant you are. There are many patriotic people in the country that will never be recognized for their accomplishments. So sitting on your hands while the other people stand in honor of their country and recite some words might not seem patriotic in your eyes, it does show those people who did fight for this country that we do recognize them. Keep your ignorance to yourself along with your silly faces.

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Guest 2smart4u
It's kind of a middle-ground...while no active action is being taken (so I'd say "technically not really patriotic"), it definitely isn't ultimately pointless the way reciting a bunch of words by rote is. Veterans are actual people, who made actual sacrifices, and showing gratitude for that is a Good Thing™, I think. :)

73928[/snapback]

"Veterans are actual people" !! Ya think ??

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Since you are not a Vet you would have no idea what these brave individuals went through.

I'm sorry, could you point out where I trivialized any veteran's service in any way?

Your pointless words daily are just a reflection of how very ignorant you are. There are many patriotic people in the country that will never be recognized for their accomplishments.

Exactly. Accomplishments. Chanting is not an accomplishment, which is why one is not magically a patriot just for saying the pledge of allegiance. So far you've called me ignorant, yet it almost seems like you read someone else's post before you wrote this.

So sitting on your hands while the other people stand in honor of their country and recite some words might not seem patriotic in your eyes, it does show those people who did fight for this country that we do recognize them.

No--verbatim chanting by rote is not recognition. If you want to recognize the sacrifices of veterans, the LEAST you can do is say something that actually comes from you. Just saying "thank you" directly to a veteran, in his/her presence (or even not), means a hell of a lot more than chanting the pledge of allegiance from memory a million times. The latter, in the end, does nothing for anyone except apparently give a lot of people an undeserved sense of accomplishment.

Stop pretending that chanting the pledge magically makes you more patriotic than someone who doesn't. It doesn't.

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"Veterans are actual people" !!  Ya think ??

74045[/snapback]

I'm not the one who drew a parallel between thanking a vet and reciting the pledge of allegiance. As obvious as it is, apparently it needed to be pointed out to the people ignorant enough to draw such an erroneous parallel.

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Guest Guest
Today I had the privilege of attending the Veterans Day Celebration on Kearny Ave. I was amazed that only a hand full of people were there, to honor our vets. I am disabled, but I made it there because I wanted to say Thank You, for fighting for me and mine, so we could live the way we do. I wish that more people felt that way, but apparently they don't. So to all the vets that are on this forum I say Thank You!

73149[/snapback]

I'm embarassed to admit that having missed any notice in the paper of a ceremony I wasn't enough on the ball to think of 11AM on the 11th. But as tired as I am of those who were apparently never taught what a trash can is, that little park is one place where I'll still take a few minutes to pick up after others.

One question maybe someone hear can answer, it seems those lost due to the effects of Agent Orange are not noted as Vietnam deaths, I believe they should be, anyone know what the 'official' policy may be? Are they on 'The Wall'?

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Guest Paul
Since you are not a Vet you would have no idea what these brave individuals went through.  Your pointless words daily are just a reflection of how very ignorant you are. There are many patriotic people in the country that will never be recognized for their accomplishments. So sitting on your hands while the other people stand in honor of their country and recite some words might not seem patriotic in your eyes, it does show those people who did fight for this country that we do recognize them.   Keep your ignorance to yourself along with your silly faces.

73988[/snapback]

If you are a Veteran, and even if you are not, you just dishonored yourself. Everyone has an idea of what Veterans went through, and every American who contributes to our country serves. I wouldn't want to live in a country where the only way to earn honor in the eyes of others was to fight in a war. In addition, I don't think that military service should be the last thing one does to serve his or her country. Those who value service --- true heroes --- don't think like that. They're always looking for another opportunity to serve.

No one in his right mind wants ours to be a country in which war is the usual order of things. Yet that attitude is what put and kept us in Viet Nam, and allows Bush to continue to get away with the worst foreign policy debacle of our history. Time after time, people like you denigrate the majority of Americans who never served in the military, but contributed to this nation in other ways. What you don't realize is that you also denigrate the service of brave men and women who have earned the title "Veteran."

If you really want to get stupid about it, as it seems you do, why not talk about which Veterans really served. One Veteran's service isn't as heroic as another's. There's a big difference between being stationed in a combat versus a non-combat zone. Come on, what's so tough about serving stateside in the medical corps? Let's limit the term "Veteran" to soldiers who actually faced enemy fire. Everyone else is a sissy: would that make you feel better, compensating somehow for whatever is eating at you?

While we're at it, let's not stop at setting Veterans against the rest of the country. Let's set Veterans against each other. If you're going to divide us, one group from another, why draw the line at Veterans? Let's identify the "phony Veterans" Mr. Limbaugh was talking about and disrespect them. Why not? You're disrespecting everyone else. Apparently you enjoy it, or maybe you think that makes you a bigger person. Well, I have news for you. It makes you a very small person, much like Mr. Limbaugh, who is no doubt one of your idols. I don't want ours to be a nation of scorekeepers --- people who keep looking to see whether they've done more than the guy next to them. I want ours to be a nation of people who look to serve every day. I learned that ethic as a boy on our farm and in our church; I've left both, but that ethic continues to inspire me.

Veterans put their pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us. Some of them contribute to society as civilians and some of them don't. They should be honored for their service and recompensed for injuries suffered far beyond what they are now; but they're not entitled to be elevated to the status of lords or kings. They get one vote, just like everyone else, and if they don't file on time it doesn't count. They deserve fair treatment and honor, not worship. And when a Veteran starts whining, he or she becomes a whiner, just like any other whiner.

I prefer to think that's not what most Veterans are about. Most Veterans I know are proud of their service, but they're not constantly reminding everyone about it. That's what noble sacrifice is. You do it, and then you move on and do it again in another setting, not asking for thanks, but being fulfilled that you've done what was right.

We know and honor what you did, even though we can't fully know it any more than one Veteran can understand another's experience. I think Veterans' Day is a good and important holiday. However, your service would be more meaningful if you stopped taking every opportunity to remind us of it. I'm not referring to Veteran's Day observances; those are fine. I'm referring to the grousing and complaining, and even more perhaps to the I'm-better-than-you-are comparisons.

The question is: Do you want a country where we honor each other, recognizing that everyone has unique talents and abilities, and a unique contribution to make, or a country in which everyone boasts how much better they are than everyone else? That is not a vision for people who really want to build a country that works.

By the way, if you're going to accuse someone of being pointless, it's useful to offer something to support that statement, especially when there was obviously a point being made. Maybe you don't want to hear it.

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Guest FYI

Why does every post have to turn into a political arguement? All I said was that I was amazed that more people did not come to pay their respects to our fallen vets and the men and women still fighting. This should have been a simple post, this was their day, by all rights.

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Guest a proud american
If you are a Veteran, and even if you are not, you just dishonored yourself. Everyone has an idea of what Veterans went through, and every American who contributes to our country serves. I wouldn't want to live in a country where the only way to earn honor in the eyes of others was to fight in a war. In addition, I don't think that military service should be the last thing one does to serve his or her country. Those who value service --- true heroes --- don't think like that. They're always looking for another opportunity to serve.

No one in his right mind wants ours to be a country in which war is the usual order of things. Yet that attitude is what put and kept us in Viet Nam, and allows Bush to continue to get away with the worst foreign policy debacle of our history. Time after time, people like you denigrate the majority of Americans who never served in the military, but contributed to this nation in other ways. What you don't realize is that you also denigrate the service of brave men and women who have earned the title "Veteran."

If you really want to get stupid about it, as it seems you do, why not talk about which Veterans really served. One Veteran's service isn't as heroic as another's. There's a big difference between being stationed in a combat versus a non-combat zone. Come on, what's so tough about serving stateside in the medical corps? Let's limit the term "Veteran" to soldiers who actually faced enemy fire. Everyone else is a sissy: would that make you feel better, compensating somehow for whatever is eating at you?

While we're at it, let's not stop at setting Veterans against the rest of the country. Let's set Veterans against each other. If you're going to divide us, one group from another, why draw the line at Veterans? Let's identify the "phony Veterans" Mr. Limbaugh was talking about and disrespect them. Why not? You're disrespecting everyone else. Apparently you enjoy it, or maybe you think that makes you a bigger person. Well, I have news for you. It makes you a very small person, much like Mr. Limbaugh, who is no doubt one of your idols. I don't want ours to be a nation of scorekeepers --- people who keep looking to see whether they've done more than the guy next to them. I want ours to be a nation of people who look to serve every day. I learned that ethic as a boy on our farm and in our church; I've left both, but that ethic continues to inspire me.

Veterans put their pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us. Some of them contribute to society as civilians and some of them don't. They should be honored for their service and recompensed for injuries suffered far beyond what they are now; but they're not entitled to be elevated to the status of lords or kings. They get one vote, just like everyone else, and if they don't file on time it doesn't count. They deserve fair treatment and honor, not worship. And when a Veteran starts whining, he or she becomes a whiner, just like any other whiner.

I prefer to think that's not what most Veterans are about. Most Veterans I know are proud of their service, but they're not constantly reminding everyone about it. That's what noble sacrifice is. You do it, and then you move on and do it again in another setting, not asking for thanks, but being fulfilled that you've done what was right.

We know and honor what you did, even though we can't fully know it any more than one Veteran can understand another's experience. I think Veterans' Day is a good and important holiday. However, your service would be more meaningful if you stopped taking every opportunity to remind us of it. I'm not referring to Veteran's Day observances; those are fine. I'm referring to the grousing and complaining, and even more perhaps to the I'm-better-than-you-are comparisons.

The question is: Do you want a country where we honor each other, recognizing that everyone has unique talents and abilities, and a unique contribution to make, or a country in which everyone boasts how much better they are than everyone else? That is not a vision for people who really want to build a country that works.

By the way, if you're going to accuse someone of being pointless, it's useful to offer something to support that statement, especially when there was obviously a point being made. Maybe you don't want to hear it.

74082[/snapback]

As a veteran, I know exactly what you are saying.

And unless you asked me, you wouldn't know that I was a Veteran. I don't wear it on my sleeve, have no tattoos, don't belong to any veterans organization and will only discuss my service when I listen to those who have never been overseas, but are willing to send someone elses kid to do their fighting.

I marched in the DC parade on November 10, 2007 to commemorate the 25th Anniversary of the Viet Nam Veterans Memorial. The reverand Phelps and his group were also there with their signs. While I was disgusted that he would dishonor veterans I understand that in a free society he has that right.

To 2dim, bush backer and his group, I would highly recommend that you visit the "wall". Go at night when it's quiet and peaceful and look at the names.

Then imagine your child's name being on a wall with over 58,000 names from Iraq because some politician phonied up some intelligence to invade a country that was no threat to us. Then let's see how you would feel.

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Guest Guest
If you are a Veteran, and even if you are not, you just dishonored yourself. Everyone has an idea of what Veterans went through, and every American who contributes to our country serves. I wouldn't want to live in a country where the only way to earn honor in the eyes of others was to fight in a war. In addition, I don't think that military service should be the last thing one does to serve his or her country. Those who value service --- true heroes --- don't think like that. They're always looking for another opportunity to serve.

No one in his right mind wants ours to be a country in which war is the usual order of things. Yet that attitude is what put and kept us in Viet Nam, and allows Bush to continue to get away with the worst foreign policy debacle of our history. Time after time, people like you denigrate the majority of Americans who never served in the military, but contributed to this nation in other ways. What you don't realize is that you also denigrate the service of brave men and women who have earned the title "Veteran."

If you really want to get stupid about it, as it seems you do, why not talk about which Veterans really served. One Veteran's service isn't as heroic as another's. There's a big difference between being stationed in a combat versus a non-combat zone. Come on, what's so tough about serving stateside in the medical corps? Let's limit the term "Veteran" to soldiers who actually faced enemy fire. Everyone else is a sissy: would that make you feel better, compensating somehow for whatever is eating at you?

While we're at it, let's not stop at setting Veterans against the rest of the country. Let's set Veterans against each other. If you're going to divide us, one group from another, why draw the line at Veterans? Let's identify the "phony Veterans" Mr. Limbaugh was talking about and disrespect them. Why not? You're disrespecting everyone else. Apparently you enjoy it, or maybe you think that makes you a bigger person. Well, I have news for you. It makes you a very small person, much like Mr. Limbaugh, who is no doubt one of your idols. I don't want ours to be a nation of scorekeepers --- people who keep looking to see whether they've done more than the guy next to them. I want ours to be a nation of people who look to serve every day. I learned that ethic as a boy on our farm and in our church; I've left both, but that ethic continues to inspire me.

Veterans put their pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us. Some of them contribute to society as civilians and some of them don't. They should be honored for their service and recompensed for injuries suffered far beyond what they are now; but they're not entitled to be elevated to the status of lords or kings. They get one vote, just like everyone else, and if they don't file on time it doesn't count. They deserve fair treatment and honor, not worship. And when a Veteran starts whining, he or she becomes a whiner, just like any other whiner.

I prefer to think that's not what most Veterans are about. Most Veterans I know are proud of their service, but they're not constantly reminding everyone about it. That's what noble sacrifice is. You do it, and then you move on and do it again in another setting, not asking for thanks, but being fulfilled that you've done what was right.

We know and honor what you did, even though we can't fully know it any more than one Veteran can understand another's experience. I think Veterans' Day is a good and important holiday. However, your service would be more meaningful if you stopped taking every opportunity to remind us of it. I'm not referring to Veteran's Day observances; those are fine. I'm referring to the grousing and complaining, and even more perhaps to the I'm-better-than-you-are comparisons.

The question is: Do you want a country where we honor each other, recognizing that everyone has unique talents and abilities, and a unique contribution to make, or a country in which everyone boasts how much better they are than everyone else? That is not a vision for people who really want to build a country that works.

By the way, if you're going to accuse someone of being pointless, it's useful to offer something to support that statement, especially when there was obviously a point being made. Maybe you don't want to hear it.

74082[/snapback]

Paul, look around. It is you who have constantly put down the town you live in, the school your children attend and who have attended in the past and also the people who once thought of you as friends. Your childish comments add nothing here except for your long winded posts that add no value to anything. I ask you flat out, "what did you do for the Veteran's this past Veteran's day?" Now lets look at the deer in the headlight look because the answer is nothing.

And I would like every Veteran who reads this from your post and these are your words exactly "However, your service would be more meaningful if you stopped taking every opportunity to remind us of it." Everyone and i mean everyone should thank a Veteran every day because without them you wouldn't have your cushiony home and life you live today. I am going to remind everyone of Veteran's day every chance I get.

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Guest Guest
Maybe next you can ask God to bless your spelling so that you don't look uneducated when you're trying to talk about "veterAns."

74054[/snapback]

Maybe God will help you with your grammar as well since there is no capital "A" in veterans.

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Guest 2smart4u
If you are a Veteran, and even if you are not, you just dishonored yourself. Everyone has an idea of what Veterans went through, and every American who contributes to our country serves. I wouldn't want to live in a country where the only way to earn honor in the eyes of others was to fight in a war. In addition, I don't think that military service should be the last thing one does to serve his or her country. Those who value service --- true heroes --- don't think like that. They're always looking for another opportunity to serve.

No one in his right mind wants ours to be a country in which war is the usual order of things. Yet that attitude is what put and kept us in Viet Nam, and allows Bush to continue to get away with the worst foreign policy debacle of our history. Time after time, people like you denigrate the majority of Americans who never served in the military, but contributed to this nation in other ways. What you don't realize is that you also denigrate the service of brave men and women who have earned the title "Veteran."

If you really want to get stupid about it, as it seems you do, why not talk about which Veterans really served. One Veteran's service isn't as heroic as another's. There's a big difference between being stationed in a combat versus a non-combat zone. Come on, what's so tough about serving stateside in the medical corps? Let's limit the term "Veteran" to soldiers who actually faced enemy fire. Everyone else is a sissy: would that make you feel better, compensating somehow for whatever is eating at you?

While we're at it, let's not stop at setting Veterans against the rest of the country. Let's set Veterans against each other. If you're going to divide us, one group from another, why draw the line at Veterans? Let's identify the "phony Veterans" Mr. Limbaugh was talking about and disrespect them. Why not? You're disrespecting everyone else. Apparently you enjoy it, or maybe you think that makes you a bigger person. Well, I have news for you. It makes you a very small person, much like Mr. Limbaugh, who is no doubt one of your idols. I don't want ours to be a nation of scorekeepers --- people who keep looking to see whether they've done more than the guy next to them. I want ours to be a nation of people who look to serve every day. I learned that ethic as a boy on our farm and in our church; I've left both, but that ethic continues to inspire me.

Veterans put their pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us. Some of them contribute to society as civilians and some of them don't. They should be honored for their service and recompensed for injuries suffered far beyond what they are now; but they're not entitled to be elevated to the status of lords or kings. They get one vote, just like everyone else, and if they don't file on time it doesn't count. They deserve fair treatment and honor, not worship. And when a Veteran starts whining, he or she becomes a whiner, just like any other whiner.

I prefer to think that's not what most Veterans are about. Most Veterans I know are proud of their service, but they're not constantly reminding everyone about it. That's what noble sacrifice is. You do it, and then you move on and do it again in another setting, not asking for thanks, but being fulfilled that you've done what was right.

We know and honor what you did, even though we can't fully know it any more than one Veteran can understand another's experience. I think Veterans' Day is a good and important holiday. However, your service would be more meaningful if you stopped taking every opportunity to remind us of it. I'm not referring to Veteran's Day observances; those are fine. I'm referring to the grousing and complaining, and even more perhaps to the I'm-better-than-you-are comparisons.

The question is: Do you want a country where we honor each other, recognizing that everyone has unique talents and abilities, and a unique contribution to make, or a country in which everyone boasts how much better they are than everyone else? That is not a vision for people who really want to build a country that works.

By the way, if you're going to accuse someone of being pointless, it's useful to offer something to support that statement, especially when there was obviously a point being made. Maybe you don't want to hear it.

74082[/snapback]

Another long, tedious, bloviating, rambling, boring post from the omnipresent

pest of KOTW.

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Guest Guest
It's not the same thing at all. Thanking a Vet is a personal act directed specifically toward a person who served. It's individualized, not rote. The great beauty of it is, it's entirely voluntary.

It is true, however, that thanking others for serving our country is not enough to make someone a patriot. To earn that honored title, we must also serve, each of us in our own way, from being the best butcher, baker or candlestickmaker we can be to raising a family to paying our taxes. There are probably millions of ways to be patriotic.

Attacking those few individuals who say things the majority doesn't want to hear isn't among them. That undermines the foundation of our democracy. There's nothing --- no-thing --- patriotic about that. On the contrary, it's slap in the face to our revolutionary fathers and mothers who pledged their lives and their sacred honor to establish freedom in this land. They may be long dead, but if we continue to forget the lessons of their service, we will eventually lose the freedom they fought so hard, deliberated so carefully and thought so deeply and brilliantly to establish.

It's a pity people like this "Guest" are more interested in being angry than they are in thinking.

73975[/snapback]

No one is more angry than you Paul. Except maybe Strifey the super genius, who is stuck in a go nowhere job.

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Guest Guest
Why does every post have to turn into a political arguement? All I said was that I was amazed that more people did not come to pay their respects to our fallen vets and the men and women still fighting. This should have been a simple post, this was their day,  by all rights.

74217[/snapback]

Because many people elevate their politics above their love of country, love of their fellow human beings and common sense. And because for some people nothing is ever enough. They want someone to make all things right for them. It can't be done.

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No one is more angry than you Paul.  Except maybe Strifey the super genius, who is stuck in a go nowhere job.

74341[/snapback]

And yet you and the other person who lashed back at Paul have nothing to say about what he actually wrote. Who cares how angry he is or isn't? The person who says what most people don't want to hear is hardly ever popular. Those are his problems, or not, as he chooses to see it. It's not your concern. And unless you know him very well, you have no idea whether he's angry or not. If he is, it may be because people keep confusing outward shows of patriotism with the real thing. He didn't say don't honor vets. He said don't let the past become your focus because there is still work to do. He's right.

But if you want to talk about who's angry, your remark about Strife is uncalled for, suggesting that you're not on even keel yourself.

What matters is what is true. In this case, there's a lot of truth in what he wrote.

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