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mnodonnell

David Paszkiewicz should be fired

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A scientist wouldn't claim that dinosaurs on the ark was a falsifiable proposition (except maybe a very stupid scientist).

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Stripped to its bare essential, falsifiability means that a proposition can be tested against empirical data, and thereby either proved (if true) or disproved (if false). There are narrow and broad definitions of the terms (see, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability and http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability ), and, predictably, intellectual turf wars over the meaning of the term. For example, some people (theistic fundamentalists, not surprisingly) claim that so-called intelligent design is falsifiable (see http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/fi...load.php?id=494 ), but that view is almost universally repudiated by scientists, and when it was tested in court in 2005, it did not withstand scrutiny from the conservative Republican judge who decided the case. His opinion (http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf) is a scathing indictment of the dishonesty behind the pseudo-science of so-called intelligent design, and well worth reading on this subject. Similarly, Googling dinosaurs – “Noah’s ark” will quickly reveal that the motivation behind that little fairy tale is based not on fact, but on a wish that the Bible was literally true.

Karl Popper, who is widely credited with coining the term “falsifiability”, included the following three criteria in his description, which he published in 1962:

3. Every "good" scientific theory is a prohibition: it forbids certain things to happen. The more a theory forbids, the better it is.

4. A theory which is not refutable by any conceivable event is non-scientific. Irrefutability is not a virtue of a theory (as people often think) but a vice.

5. Every genuine test of a theory is an attempt to falsify it, or to refute it. Testability is falsifiability; but there are degrees of testability; some theories are more testable, more exposed to refutation than others; they take, as it were, greater risks.

--- http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/critical_thin...ifiability.html

Many people think that falsifiability refers only to the amenability of disproof. While Popper cautioned against using apparent confirmations as proof of falsifiability (see his first criterion at Id.), he also included the following statement as his second criterion: “Confirmations should count only if they are the result of risky predictions; that is to say, if, unenlightened by the theory in question, we should have expected an event which was incompatible with the theory—an event which would have refuted the theory.” (Id.)

There can be no doubt that dinosaurs and humans never co-existed. We know from a wealth of data and solid scientific theory, which has been confirmed many times and in many ways in exactly the manner Popper describes, that dinosaurs became extinct nearly 65 million years before humans evolved. Therefore, by application of simple logic (which is valid since the subject matter is not in the realm of cosmology or quantum physics), the presence of dinosaurs on Noah’s ark is inconsistent with scientific fact, i.e., it is disproved.

The mere fact that a proposition has not been disproved does not mean that it cannot be disproved, but the converse does not follow, and is in fact false. The co-existence of dinosaurs and humans has been disproved. Therefore, having been proved false, it is falsifiable.

Most reputable scientists don't give propositions like this the time of day, but Neil DeGrasse Tyson, who is the head of the Hayden Planetarium in New York City, commented on the idea of dinosaurs on Noah's ark, and explicitly said in an address that was broadcast on C-Span last year that we know for a fact that dinosaurs and humans did not co-exist. Among scientists, that fact is not open to serious dispute; the proposition is unequivocally disproved.

Perhaps Bryan can explain what flaw he sees in the argument in post 568. Eating the green cheese on the Earth-moon in an alternative universe caused a time-warp, perhaps.

You go, Bryan. I can hardly wait for this one.

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Guest Guest
You're describing how to begin a probabilistic argument to the effect that dinosaurs weren't on the ark.  That's not the same thing.

It sounds like your argument depends on the assumption that miracles are impossible.  Is that what science means to you?

A scientist wouldn't claim that dinosaurs on the ark was a falsifiable proposition (except maybe a very stupid scientist).

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A pox on those who doubt, I say! A pox! The Bible says dinosaurs were on Noah’s ark, so it must be so. Just ask Mr. Paszkiewicz, and if you don’t believe him, then read

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2/4264news4-3-2000.asp. After all, if it’s posted on the internet, it must be true.

See, there’s even a picture of it. http://objectiveministries.org/creation/dinosaurs.html

And if you still don’t understand it, well what the heck, we’re not really supposed to know stuff anyway. Questions are great, and it’s important to ask them, but hey, if you don’t hear what you want to hear, just make some stuff up. That way, you get to do real science, but you don’t have to worry about all the details or whether your story makes sense. http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fe...l?msg_id=00AuJl

And why bother with dating methods that work for everything else? Sure, all the scientific data prove without a doubt that dinosaurs became extinct approximately 65 million years ago, but that’s not what we want to hear. So proof, schmoof, let’s just pick out a little piece of the information, focus on that and ignore everything else. http://users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/dinogone.html

And instead of admitting that we’re talking about scientific data and universally accepted theory, let’s just call it some other name so people won’t respect it. After all, this is just junk we get from movies and stuff like that. http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2001/dinos_on_ark.asp Let’s not mention that scientists have anything to do with it.

God, those scientists are dumb. Look here’s another picture of a person with a dinosaur, and that’s today! http://www.truechristian.com/dinosaurs.html How dumb do those science guys think we are anyway! If dinosaurs aren’t still alive, then how did this guy get a picture with one? Huh? Explain that!

Next thing you know, those idiot scientists will be telling us that the Sun revolves around the Earth, and that the Earth is round. And that moon landing thing in 1969 – what a hoax that was!

I’m sick of those dumb scientists thinking they know everything. What have they done to make the world better, anyway? I say let’s just lock ‘em all in jail and throw away the keys. How dare they think they know more than we do?

* * * * *

Creationists are just plain scary.

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Earth to Bryan: observation counts as evidence, both in court and in science.

78745[/snapback]

You have no connection to the Earth if you don't realize that an unconscious entity might perfectly mimic the behaviors of a conscious one. You can observe consciousness, I suppose, if you can literally read minds by literally hearing the thoughts of another.

Can you do that?

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Does the word "suspicions" mean anything to you?

78497[/snapback]

Yes, but to me "suspicions" in that context does not mean that the current popular version of the big bang among scientists consists of the idea that the universe arose out of nothing.

Does it mean that to you, or are you just being cutesy?

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You post stupid nonsense every day under your own name, and your argument about theology not having been introduced before is bunk. Your entire argument is theology - "a conscious first cause." Give me a freaking break.

Pretty funny how "conscious first cause" goes from not necessarily being God to a definite sign of theology. :rolleyes:

Thanks for letting us know you're ashamed of your own argument, though. You should be.

That's for proving that "Guest" (whichever incarnation you are) hasn't lost his ability to simply make things up.

As for your comment about the science of singularities: irony requires a clear set of facts. That's not where science is on that subject.

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Heh. Then how do you account for Guest introducing the contradictory notions in the first place?

That's your cue to continue dodging, making stuff up, or one of your other little games.

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Guest Paul
A pox on those who doubt, I say! A pox! The Bible says dinosaurs were on Noah’s ark, so it must be so. Just ask Mr. Paszkiewicz, and if you don’t believe him, then read

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2/4264news4-3-2000.asp. After all, if it’s posted on the internet, it must be true.

See, there’s even a picture of it. http://objectiveministries.org/creation/dinosaurs.html

And if you still don’t understand it, well what the heck, we’re not really supposed to know stuff anyway. Questions are great, and it’s important to ask them, but hey, if you don’t hear what you want to hear, just make some stuff up. That way, you get to do real science, but you don’t have to worry about all the details or whether your story makes sense. http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fe...l?msg_id=00AuJl

And why bother with dating methods that work for everything else? Sure, all the scientific data prove without a doubt that dinosaurs became extinct approximately 65 million years ago, but that’s not what we want to hear. So proof, schmoof, let’s just pick out a little piece of the information, focus on that and ignore everything else. http://users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/dinogone.html

And instead of admitting that we’re talking about scientific data and universally accepted theory, let’s just call it some other name so people won’t respect it. After all, this is just junk we get from movies and stuff like that. http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2001/dinos_on_ark.asp Let’s not mention that scientists have anything to do with it.

God, those scientists are dumb. Look here’s another picture of a person with a dinosaur, and that’s today! http://www.truechristian.com/dinosaurs.html How dumb do those science guys think we are anyway! If dinosaurs aren’t still alive, then how did this guy get a picture with one? Huh? Explain that!

Next thing you know, those idiot scientists will be telling us that the Sun revolves around the Earth, and that the Earth is round. And that moon landing thing in 1969 – what a hoax that was! 

I’m sick of those dumb scientists thinking they know everything. What have they done to make the world better, anyway? I say let’s just lock ‘em all in jail and throw away the keys. How dare they think they know more than we do?

*  *  *  *  *

Creationists are just plain scary.

78787[/snapback]

Yeah, and here's proof Satan is real, too. Just look at those two brave boys standin' there right in front of him. They don't even look a'skeered!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0...98805046&sr=1-1

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Guest Guest
You have no connection to the Earth if you don't realize that an unconscious entity might perfectly mimic the behaviors of a conscious one.  You can observe consciousness, I suppose, if you can literally read minds by literally hearing the thoughts of another.

Can you do that?

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I can understand a withdrawal response. I can even understand what appears to be a grimace. My mother used to read to me, did math, spoke in complete sentences, in fluent English, and went grocery shopping and to church, each once a week on the same day of the week. That's a little hard to explain without consciousness.

Don't you think, genius?

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I can understand a withdrawal response. I can even understand what appears to be a grimace. My mother used to read to me, did math, spoke in complete sentences, in fluent English, and went grocery shopping and to church, each once a week on the same day of the week. That's a little hard to explain without consciousness.

Don't you think, genius?

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I do, and I am able to distinguish an argument from analogy from a proof of consciousness.

You, sadly, are not.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zombies/

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I do, and I am able to distinguish an argument from analogy from a proof of consciousness.

You, sadly, are not.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zombies/

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So here I am wondering what Bryan means. Is he citing some authority on the characteristics of zombies? Or does he realize that zombies are mythical, and he's trying to make a point? But what point? How does he segue from his argument that some things might appear to be conscious without actually being conscious (an argument he was trying to apply to someone's mother, apparently) to a link to a discussion on zombies?

Please enlighten us, o font of wisdom. Obviously you've gone way over my head.

Gee, I just had a frightening thought. Bryan's writing appears to mimic conscious behavior. Could it be . . .

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Guest AGarcia

As Michael is, I too am a '95 Grad of Kearny High School. I completely agree with his views.

It is no secret that David is a youth pastor, he made it know to everyone. While I was never in his class, as a member of the crew team (which he coached at the time I was in school), I often heard him say things about religion that I though inappropriate for a person in a position of authority. I am even aware of an instance where he allegedly tapped the doors shut to the students’ hotel rooms while away on an overnight trip to make sure they didn't sneak out. While not illegal, I definitely feel it shows bad judgment and sends the wrong message to students that they are not trusted.

Why didn't I complain you say? Because I was young and didn't always speak up to or question authority figures AND THAT is what makes what David did wrong and deserving of his dismissal. At 14-18 years of age children are very impressionable. Telling them that Christianity is the only "right" religion and that his beliefs should be ours is not something a person in a position of authority should be doing. He brought the religious aspect of his private life into a public school classroom. He did it when I was a student and I don't questions that he did it now. I only wish there would have been a Matthew to speak up sooner.

I would also like to thank Bryan for his pig headed input.

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Guest Guest
As Michael is, I too am a '95 Grad of Kearny High School.  I completely agree with his views. 

I am even aware of an instance where he allegedly tapped the doors shut to the students’ hotel rooms while away on an overnight trip to make sure they didn't sneak out.  While not illegal, I definitely feel it shows bad judgment and sends the wrong message to students that they are not trusted.

I would also like to thank Bryan for his pig headed input

79150[/snapback]

As a Kearny Crew parent, I know that Coach P. still tapes the motel room doors of his team on away trips and I think it demonstrates good judgment. The pupose of taping the doors is to be able to detect if someone sneaks out of their room after curfew. Coach gets up before the team, goes to each door, examines the tape, then calls each room to wake them up and give permission to leave the room. Students, in an emergency of course, can leave the room. However, they have to call him or his assistant to make them aware. Coach P. not only tapes the doors, but he has a female, crew parent chaperone enter each room, take a head count and do a rudimentary search before closing all doors at curfew. In addition, Coach P. drills the team on safety. The team stays near dangerous areas at competitions like Camden NJ. When he and the chaperone knock on student doors, if the student doesn't look through the window or peep hole and ask who it is before opening, they are chastized. The safety and well being of his team is paramount. Parents are very happy with his standards. The above post seems to be meant simply to attack Mr. P without any understanding of the issue. What was that about Bryan being pig-headed?

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Guest Paul
As Michael is, I too am a '95 Grad of Kearny High School.  I completely agree with his views. 

It is no secret that David is a youth pastor, he made it know to everyone.  While I was never in his class, as a member of the crew team (which he coached at the time I was in school), I often heard him say things about religion that I though inappropriate for a person in a position of authority.  I am even aware of an instance where he allegedly tapped the doors shut to the students’ hotel rooms while away on an overnight trip to make sure they didn't sneak out.  While not illegal, I definitely feel it shows bad judgment and sends the wrong message to students that they are not trusted.

Why didn't I complain you say?  Because I was young and didn't always speak up to or question authority figures AND THAT is what makes what David did wrong and deserving of his dismissal.  At 14-18 years of age children are very impressionable.  Telling them that Christianity is the only "right" religion and that his beliefs should be ours is not something a person in a position of authority should be doing. He brought the religious aspect of his private life into a public school classroom.  He did it when I was a student and I don't questions that he did it now.  I only wish there would have been a Matthew to speak up sooner.

I would also like to thank Bryan for his pig headed input.

79150[/snapback]

My suggestion, as it would be to anyone on any side of such an issue, is that you convey your information in person or by writing to the Board of Education, giving your complete name, address, and a signature if in writing. They should have the facts, and it is painfully obvious that too few students, present or past, are willing to provide them. I'm not stating this to re-open this case, but only to say that important facts like this should be conveyed. I urge you to do it, and can only hope that you will. This is everybody's business, and yes it is important.

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Guest Guest
As Michael is, I too am a '95 Grad of Kearny High School.  I completely agree with his views. 

It is no secret that David is a youth pastor, he made it know to everyone.  While I was never in his class, as a member of the crew team (which he coached at the time I was in school), I often heard him say things about religion that I though inappropriate for a person in a position of authority.  I am even aware of an instance where he allegedly tapped the doors shut to the students’ hotel rooms while away on an overnight trip to make sure they didn't sneak out.  While not illegal, I definitely feel it shows bad judgment and sends the wrong message to students that they are not trusted.

Why didn't I complain you say?  Because I was young and didn't always speak up to or question authority figures AND THAT is what makes what David did wrong and deserving of his dismissal.  At 14-18 years of age children are very impressionable.  Telling them that Christianity is the only "right" religion and that his beliefs should be ours is not something a person in a position of authority should be doing. He brought the religious aspect of his private life into a public school classroom.  He did it when I was a student and I don't questions that he did it now.  I only wish there would have been a Matthew to speak up sooner.

I would also like to thank Bryan for his pig headed input.

79150[/snapback]

Garcia,

Let's pretend your sister was part of the crew team.

Lets pretend that she was on one of these overnight trips and Mr.P. did not take the time to tape the door and make sure that she was safe and something did happen to her? What would your family do to Mr. P. then? What would you say then? Would you feel the same way you did in your post?

He is responsible for the safety of these girls.

If something did happen then you and your family would crucify him.

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My suggestion, as it would be to anyone on any side of such an issue, is that you convey your information in person or by writing to the Board of Education, giving your complete name, address, and a signature if in writing. They should have the facts, and it is painfully obvious that too few students, present or past, are willing to provide them. I'm not stating this to re-open this case, but only to say that important facts like this should be conveyed. I urge you to do it, and can only hope that you will. This is everybody's business, and yes it is important.

79174[/snapback]

Too bad he didn't have the digital recorder.

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As a Kearny Crew parent, I know that Coach P. still tapes the motel room doors of his team on away trips and I think it demonstrates good judgment.  The pupose of taping the doors is to be able to detect if someone sneaks out of their room after curfew.  Coach gets up before the team, goes to each door, examines the tape, then calls each room to wake them up and give permission to leave the room.  Students, in an emergency of course, can leave the room.  However, they have to call him or his assistant to make them aware.  Coach P. not only tapes the doors, but he has a female, crew parent chaperone enter each room, take a head count and do a rudimentary search before closing all doors at curfew.  In addition, Coach P. drills the team on safety.  The team stays near dangerous areas at competitions like Camden NJ.  When he and the chaperone knock on student doors, if the student doesn't look through the window or peep hole and ask who it is before opening, they are chastized.  The safety and well being of his team is paramount.  Parents are very happy with his standards.  The above post seems to be meant simply to attack Mr. P without any understanding of the issue.  What was that about Bryan being pig-headed?

79173[/snapback]

That is so sick. No wonder some are scared and distrustful. They learn from adults.

How do you control your younglings at other times? Do you tape their bedrooms nightly? Do you escort them to and from school? How do you monitor them when they go outside?

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Yeah, and here's proof Satan is real, too. Just look at those two brave boys standin' there right in front of him. They don't even look a'skeered!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0...98805046&sr=1-1

78965[/snapback]

Yes.

And the carbon dating that scientists use to debunk biblical creation is bunk.

Where does carbon come from? Burning. And burning is from fire. And where is there a lot of fire? We know where. That horrible unmentionable place.

This is not a coincidence. Carbon dated carbon is brought up by the evil one - to confuse and mislead.

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I am even aware of an instance where he allegedly tapped the doors shut to the students’ hotel rooms while away on an overnight trip to make sure they didn't sneak out.  While not illegal, I definitely feel it shows bad judgment and sends the wrong message to students that they are not trusted.

79150[/snapback]

I thought about this some more and find it hard to believe that this occurs. Taping students into their rooms. <_<

To me, this seems to be a perverted type of domination. No respect for the individual at all. The types who go in for this stuff always “mean well”.

I’m surprised that so far no student has come up with the initiative to remove the tape from ALL the rooms. This sounds like a Caine Mutiny plot. Mr P can look for a suspect with his steel balls. :lol:

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Garcia,

Let's pretend your sister was part of the crew team.

Lets pretend that she was on one of these overnight trips and Mr.P. did not take the time to tape the door and make sure that she was safe and something did happen to her?

Wait, are you saying that tape on the door would magically prevent anything form happening?

Taping the doors doesn't make anyone safe all by itself. That's like saying that putting a "do not rob" sign on your front lawn will keep your home from getting burglarized.

Your reasoning is silly. The tape would keep tabs on someone sneaking out, but it would do absolutely zero to protect them while they're in their room. However much protection that locked door gives, the tape does not add to.

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Guest Guest
Yes.

And the carbon dating that scientists use to debunk biblical creation is bunk.

Where does carbon come from? Burning. And burning is from fire. And where is there a lot of fire? We know where. That horrible unmentionable place.

This is not a coincidence. Carbon dated carbon is brought up by the evil one - to confuse and mislead.

79227[/snapback]

<_<

I thought next year was 2008, not 1008... hmm

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Guest Guest

Your reasoning is silly. The tape would keep tabs on someone sneaking out, but it would do absolutely zero to protect them while they're in their room. However much protection that locked door gives, the tape does not add to.

79254[/snapback]

That is the point of the tape.

It's not silly when you have 60 girls on the team that he is responsible for.

It will not magically prevent someone from breaking in to the room, but if anyone get out he will know.

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Guest Guest
I thought about this some more and find it hard to believe that this occurs.  Taping students into their rooms.  <_<

To me, this seems to be a perverted type of domination. No respect for the individual at all. The types who go in for this stuff always “mean well”.

I’m surprised that so far no student has come up with the initiative to remove the tape from ALL the rooms. This sounds like a Caine Mutiny plot. Mr P can look for a suspect with his steel balls. :lol:

79229[/snapback]

Hey Bern, do you have any kids?

Maybe before you open your trap to try to make a big deal out of nothing, you should ask these kids parents how they feel about the safety of their kids.

They know these doors are taped, many of these kids parents are there as well. If they do not have a problem why should you be concern.

When you are responsible for a team, or have a child that is part of a team you will understand. Right now you do not know what you a talking about.

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I thought about this some more and find it hard to believe that this occurs.  Taping students into their rooms.  <_<

To me, this seems to be a perverted type of domination. No respect for the individual at all. The types who go in for this stuff always “mean well”.

I’m surprised that so far no student has come up with the initiative to remove the tape from ALL the rooms. This sounds like a Caine Mutiny plot. Mr P can look for a suspect with his steel balls. :lol:

79229[/snapback]

First of all, the doors are not taped shut; it’s a piece of tape and all the doors are locked from the inside. It is there to see if anyone has left their room after curfew. And yes, teenagers will try to sneak out of their rooms at night, and your child would probably be one of them. Have you ever chaperoned 30+ teenage girls overnight at a hotel where other teams are staying. If so, I would like to know what you have done to keep tabs on them.

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First of all, the doors are not taped shut; it’s a piece of tape and all the doors are locked from the inside. It is there to see if anyone has left their room after curfew. And yes, teenagers will try to sneak out of their rooms at night, and your child would probably be one of them. Have you ever chaperoned 30+ teenage girls overnight at a hotel where other teams are staying. If so, I would like to know what you have done to keep tabs on them.

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Thank you!

It is not like these kids are locked in their room from the outside.

Bern has some much hate for a guy he never mat, that he is willing to buy into anything and everything. Just shows me that he does not have a mind of his own. He is a follower not a leader. <_<

You can be sure if something happen to his kid (if he has any) while on an away trip he would be hiring Mr LaClair as his lawyer and going after BOE for not taking any measures for keeping his kid safe while under the responsibility of his coach.

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That is the point of the tape.

It's not silly when you have 60 girls on the team that he is responsible for.

It is considering that if something happened to them, the tape would make no difference overall. Not to mention that if multiple people are in a room (as I imagine they'd have to be), what would Paszkiewicz do, yell at all the occupants even if it was just one of them who snuck out?

What's next, cowbells around the neck?

It will not magically prevent someone from breaking in to the room, but if anyone get out he will know.

79291[/snapback]

Unless there's one person per room, it would only narrow it down at best, actually.

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