Fire Boxes

[Guest Steve H]

Well, finally the Gamewell Fire Alarm Telegraph system in Kearny is history. I guess it was only a matter of time since many cities have long since removed these systems. But I have some concerns:

1. The usual rationale for removing fire telegraph systems is that with the proliferation of cellphones it is faster to report a fire that way. Indeed, it seems that many people, especially people who don't consider their residence permanent, don't have a "land line" in their homes. This is a problem, since dialing 911 on a cellphone does not provide the 911 operator with your address and telephone number. That technology is still in the works. So, in the event of a language barrier or someone overcome by smoke prior to giving the address, the cellphone is useless. One might then say, "well, install a phone line and use 911 if you need help." Well, that might work elsewhere, but in Kearny...

2. When you dial 911 your call is answered by the Hudson County PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point) in Jersey City (or Secaucus, I cannot recall right now; it makes no real difference). On the operator's "ANI/ALI" screen will be your telephone number and the address on file for that number, which, most of the time, is correct. Also on the console are "direct transfer" buttons marked POLICE, EMS, and FIRE. Pressing any of these SHOULD connect you to the dispatch center for the respective service. In the case of the KFD, that would be the Fire Alarm building at the rear of Station 2 on Kearny Ave. Here sits the man whose hand will get fire apparatus moving toward your burning house, car, store, etc.

Well, in Kearny, someone has decided that instead of the FIRE button sending your call to the FIRE dispatcher, it should first go to the POLICE desk at the 2nd Precinct in S. Kearny! Once the officer on duty there, who also has a screen for the address and phone number, takes your information, he must then pick up the phone and dial the Fire Department dispatcher. The information regarding where to send the firefighters is on it's second repetition; remember the old "telephone game" and what usually happened to messages that were repeated? Finally the alarm can be dispatched.

I am at a loss to figure out why it was decided to send FIRE calls to a POLICE desk first, especially since the New Jersey 911 system can send a "direct transfer" call to just about anywhere, including a regular 7-digit number such as 991-1400. I also wonder why Fire Alarm doesn't have an ANI/ALI screen. We're talking one, maybe two, not several dozen as you might find in a large dispatch center. Can't someone find the funds necessary for this? And in the interim, shouldn't a fire call go to the fire dispatcher? Indeed, if things were handled this way, perhaps there wouldn't be several police cars blocking the front of a burining building, the hydrants, and even the street at the corner! Sorry, guys, but I've seen it dozens of times, and not just in Kearny. What makes you do that? If a civilian did that you'd summons if not arrest him and tow the car.

SO, since Kearny has once again fouled up a one-car funeral in its design of it's 911 "system," I would suggest residents and business owners in Kearny commit the following number to memory:

201-991-1400

Program it into your cellphones, and post it by your home phones. New Jersey's 911 legislation prohibits advertising any number except 911 for emergencies, but it doesn't stop you from using the other numbers if you'd like. In this case it may be lifesaving. The fire department's main phone line is taped and has Caller ID, not as good as ANI/ALI, but far better than the alternative.

Also, considering all the above, remember to think twice the next time you hear how long it took the fire department to respond. They can't respond until they get the alarm.

Good luck to the residents of and visitors to my hometown.

Stephen Hanneken, AS, Mobile ICU Paramedic,

Former Supervisor, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, University Hospital, Newark, NJ, EMS Communications Division

Co-Founder, Kearny Volunteer Emergency Rescue Squad- it wasn't supposed to end up this way

[Guest Great points]

and the chiefs main concern is changing smoke detector batteries........that explains it

[Guest Guest]

They can't respond until they get their lazy, fat asses out of bed and B**ch about having to go out in the cold when they have to work their promary job, whatever that may be, the next day. Its all about the money.

[Guest Guest]

Good job Steve! Lets make people worry more as if they don't have enough problems already. You should mind your own business and it seems like you are just trying to kiss ass to get a job as a firemen.

[Guest Guest]

Figures. Someone puts up an intelligent post on a real issue in town and some moron has to rag on the FD. Nothing like avoiding the issue. Get a life pal.

[Guest Guest]

Thats an intelligent issue? I got news for you. If you live in Hudson County, where you probably do not, you would realize that the only important things are power, nepotism, and money. The safety of the public (the regular working Joe and his family) mean nothing except at election time. At least I give an honest response other than whatever self-serving bullshit you are serving up.

[Guest RelaxDude]

Wow, I hope writing that dissertation didn't distract you from answering an important ham radio call. You've seen a lot of police cars in front of fires, huh? Sounds like the ramblings of one of those fire buffs who blocks the firemen and cops from doing their jobs so he can get a better view of the carnage. And since you're so free in explaining what you see as inadequacies in the PD why don't you explain why you're a "former" supervisor of communications. I guess that A.S. after your name that you flaunt like a doctorate isn't so impressive to the UMDNJ administration.

Joseph Bagadonuts, G.E.D.

Former Student of the Month, Mr. Smith's Auto Shop Class

[Guest Steve H]

Good job Steve! Lets make people worry more as if they don't have enough problems already. You should mind your own business and it seems like you are just trying to kiss ass to get a job as a firemen.

I thought you might like to know that:

a) I'm 42 years old, well over the age limit to take the exam for firefighter; maybe in my next life;

Knowing what you know after reading my post and assuming you live in Kearny, if your house is on fire what method will you use to call for help?;

c) I would think that people might worry less now that they have the inside scoop and can work around the "system" when things get ugly;

Feel better now, my anonymous genius friend?

Just to clarify my point: I'm not saying that pulling the boxes out is absolutely wrong. I'm sure that maintaining the system will be difficult as parts become scarce and the system would then become unreliable. I also have heard anecdotal stories of how people today don't seem to know what a "fire box" is, especially folks who were born, say, in the last 15 years or so. Kearny is one of the last towns in the area that I know of that still have a telegraph system, so they're not part of the mainstream. One story was that a few years back someone ran past two boxes to bang on the door of a firehouse in the middle of the night to report a house fire; and there was another box 5 feet away on the firehouse wall!

What I am saying is that the town is taking away what was an effective means of alerting firefighters while there is no reliable substitute. This lack of reliability is not due to obsolescence, but rather a poorly-designed 911 system which seems to have excluded the Fire Department in its planning and execution. It does not have to be this way, and until it is fixed I maintain that the best way to handle it is to be aware of a better way to get help in the event of a fire.

Would you like to know what happens when you dial 911 for medical help in Kearny? That's another disaster that has no easy fix.

Good luck and be safe,

Steve

[Guest Old Friend]

Hi Steve...Actually, I for one would like for you to explain what happens when you dial 911 for medical help in Kearny. I work in a small nursing home in Kearny, and when we dial 911 we get the cops...then the EMT's, then the paramedics show up asking a MILLION questions, quite rudely in most cases, taking more than 20 minutes with questions while they already have the answers to those questions in the pts. records that are copied and given to them upon arrival. All this while the patient either has a o2 sat of 80 on room air and they can't seem to understand why their o2 sat is in the 90's with O2 on..and then try to tell us the pt seems stable to THEM. I swear we've had them there for 1/2 an hour, while the pt is in distress,when I could have them at WHH(before they closed)faster if I'd driven them myself. I know this is long, but it's very frustrating.

P.S. You are absoulutely correct when you said the KVES wasn't supposed to end this way. I remember how hard you guys--You, Steve D., Mike M, and Jerry C. worked to make that squad a reality..and did a great job, too> Thanks for that-you guys truly cared.

[Guest Guest]

Ok Einstein, the Fire dept. does not want to do ANY work, never mind put out a fire. It wouldn't surprise me if they went to an unlisted number next year in order to get more sleep. Being a fireman is not a profession, just like professional wrestling is not a sport. It is just grown men playing with water and getting VERY OVERPAID for doing it. It's all about the money and nepotism.

[Guest Johnson]

Hi Steve...Actually, I for one would like for you to explain what happens when you dial 911 for medical help in Kearny. I work in a small nursing home in Kearny, and when we dial 911 we get the cops...then the EMT's, then the paramedics show up asking a MILLION questions, quite rudely in most cases, taking more than 20 minutes with questions while they already have the answers to those questions in the pts. records that are copied and given to them upon arrival. All this while the patient either has a o2 sat of 80 on room air and they can't seem to understand why their o2 sat is in the 90's with O2 on..and then try to tell us the pt seems stable to THEM. I swear we've had them there for 1/2 an hour, while the pt is in distress,when I could have them at WHH(before they closed)faster if I'd driven them myself. I know this is long, but it's very frustrating.

P.S. You are absoulutely correct when you said the KVES wasn't supposed to end this way. I remember how hard you guys--You, Steve D., Mike M, and Jerry C. worked to make that squad a reality..and did a great job, too> Thanks for that-you guys truly cared.

Don't tell me a nursing home worker is complaining about paramedics. I'll clear up the confusion, they're rude to you because you're incompetent. Across the board nursing home staff is uncaring and incompetent. You show up there and find a half dead person lying uattended in bed and the nursing home staff pretends they just got that way 5 minutes ago. Then you try and speak to a nurse except, you can't find one because all those people in scrubs actually have minimal medical training and seem to be wearing the srcubs as a ruse to keep you from finding the one nurse on the floor. Then, when you ask for information about the patient from the one half-competent person you find they hand you a piece of paper with Chinese chicken scratch on it and expect you to decifer it. The patient's O2 sat is 80 because they've been lying face down in a pillow with no oxygen on even though it's an "emergency." Most times it's a hassle just to get this far, because you can't get past the guard or personnel in the lobby who have no idea that you were called to the nursing home and no idea where the "emergency" is. When you do find nursing home personnel actually attending to a patient in crisis, they're often in the process of demonstrating some new ACLS intervention like ineffective CPR on a soft mattress with a nasal cannula providing ventilation. Then, they turn to you and proudly tell you what the patient's O2 sat is, like that's the end-all be-all in medical diagnostics. When the paramedic tries to give the patient the medication they should have had 2 hours ago when the heart attack started, the nursing home staff is suddenly in a rush and wants them out of the building.

[Guest old friend]

OK Johnson....Can you explain to me, since the paramedics and emts are so brilliant, why they would take over 20 minutes to arrive at the scene(in Kearny) of someone in resp. distress? THEN when they get there, the patient ,who already passed away 15 minutes before,( 5-7 minutes after the initial call was made) with DNR papers in my hand,tell me they cannot honor it . They then begin chest compressions, no one doing any rescue breathing, trying to revive someone who already been gone for 15 minutes?

I've also been to a football game where emt's came to the call of a 12 yr. with "trouble breathing". They never administered any oxygen or did any O2 sats whatsoever. O2 was administered after they were questioned as to its need, then the parent noticed in the ambulance,it was not turned on.

P.S. By the way, most nursing home patients are going to die there. That does not mean the staff is incompetent.Nature is to blame for that. I'm sorry if you guys don't like what you see there, but believe me, we know those people much better than you do. Thats why we are more concerned with getting them to the hospital, than with 15 people walking around, asking 20 minutes worth of questions , especially when they have all the info they need in their hands. All we want is to get the patient to the hospital.

[Guest Johnson]

OK Johnson....Can you explain to me, since the paramedics and emts are so brilliant, why they would take over 20 minutes to arrive at the scene(in Kearny) of someone in resp. distress? THEN when they get there, the patient ,who already passed away 15 minutes before,( 5-7 minutes after the initial call was made) with DNR papers in my hand,tell me they cannot honor it . They then begin chest compressions, no one doing any rescue breathing, trying to revive someone who already been gone for 15 minutes?

I've also been to a football game where emt's came to the call of a 12 yr. with "trouble breathing". They never administered any oxygen or did any O2 sats whatsoever. O2 was administered after they were questioned as to its need, then the parent noticed in the ambulance,it was not turned on.

P.S. By the way, most nursing home patients are going to die there. That does not mean the staff is incompetent.Nature is to blame for that. I'm sorry if you guys don't like what you see there, but believe me, we know those people much better than you do. Thats why we are more concerned with getting them to the hospital, than with 15 people walking around, asking 20 minutes worth of questions , especially when they have all the info they need in their hands. All we want is to get the patient to the hospital.

1. They probably took 5 minutes to get to the call and 15 minutes trying to find someone in the lobby who could properly direct them to the location of the emergency. Or, better yet, it took so long because the local ambulance may not have been called. Rather, St. Barnabas' nursing home contracted with St. Barnabas' ambulance (EMTAC) which may have responded from Irvington.

2. Unless they choked on a hotdog, they were in respiratory distress a lot longer than five minutes before dying. It just takes someone with some medical training and an interest to actually notice this. You'd think people who knew the patient's so well would detect such a change.

3. The 12 year old in the ambulance was most likely hyperventilating. They wouldn't have bothered with the mask at all if it wasn't to make some nosy know nothing stop questioning their every action. Then, they put the mask on without turning on the oxygen to act as a paper bag would when people breathe into it to alleviate hyperventilation. It recycles their CO2.

4. If the DNR could not be honored it would be because it was not a Dept. of Health approved, out of hospital DNR form. It may have been a living will or an advanced directive or it was technically insufficient.

5. Yet again, the demonstration that nursing homes think an O2 sat is the end-all be-all of medical diagnostics. It is not even carried on most BLS ambulances.

[Guest Guest]

You people really have no CLUE !!!!

[Guest 911!!]

OK Johnson....Can you explain to me, since the paramedics and emts are so brilliant, why they would take over 20 minutes to arrive at the scene(in Kearny) of someone in resp. distress? THEN when they get there, the patient ,who already passed away 15 minutes before,( 5-7 minutes after the initial call was made) with DNR papers in my hand,tell me they cannot honor it . They then begin chest compressions, no one doing any rescue breathing, trying to revive someone who already been gone for 15 minutes?

I've also been to a football game where emt's came to the call of a 12 yr. with "trouble breathing". They never administered any oxygen or did any O2 sats whatsoever. O2 was administered after they were questioned as to its need, then the parent noticed in the ambulance,it was not turned on.

P.S. By the way, most nursing home patients are going to die there. That does not mean the staff is incompetent.Nature is to blame for that. I'm sorry if you guys don't like what you see there, but believe me, we know those people much better than you do. Thats why we are more concerned with getting them to the hospital, than with 15 people walking around, asking 20 minutes worth of questions , especially when they have all the info they need in their hands. All we want is to get the patient to the hospital.

How dose 911 work you ask?

First you call 911

The call is directed to Jersey City main 911 dispatch center.

They get info to confirm town, location, etc. ( This takes time) Then they redirect the call to KPD

KPD confirms info and calls KVERS (this takes time)

KVERS receives info via radio and responds from up-town Kearny

15-min on a good day

[Guest Steve H]

Wow, I hope writing that dissertation didn't distract you from answering an important ham radio call. You've seen a lot of police cars in front of fires, huh? Sounds like the ramblings of one of those fire buffs who blocks the firemen and cops from doing their jobs so he can get a better view of the carnage. And since you're so free in explaining what you see as inadequacies in the PD why don't you explain why you're a "former" supervisor of communications. I guess that A.S. after your name that you flaunt like a doctorate isn't so impressive to the UMDNJ administration.

Joseph Bagadonuts, G.E.D.

Former Student of the Month, Mr. Smith's Auto Shop Class

Hey, Joe! How the heck are you?

Obviously, if you know I'm a ham radio operator, you know me...which makes me wonder why you don't identify yourself so we can have a more or less intelligent discussion on the matter I brought up.

Why am I a "former" UMDNJ supervisor? Simple: a) one of my employees, who received a bad evaluation from me, decided to file charges of misconduct in retalliation; UMDNJ EMS administration handled the whole incident in an incompetent manner which made me feel like my 12 1/2 years of good employment meant absolutely nothing; c) after I was exonerated, and after I was awarded my job with back pay and benefits, I resigned. Can't work for people who don't respect you!

So, that's the name of that tune...I have nothing to hide, Joe!

Now I'm in the Physician Assistant program, and I don't regret a minute of it.

I'm proud of my AS, took me a while to complete it, which I did after I left UMDNJ. I figured what the hell, with all the anonymous posts on here from people whose credibility is unknown I'd let people know where I've been and let them judge for themselves. I think they call that owing up to your statements. I'm still at a loss as to the connection between an AS and a doctorate, but hey, thanks for the vote of confidence! And congratulations on the GED and the student of the month! You're on your way to better things!

As far as buffing fires, yeah, I like to do that, but instead of getting a "better view of the carnage," I usually end up dragging hose or helping out in some other way. I can't ever recall blocking cops or firefighters from doing their jobs at a fire or anyplace else, although I've been hindered from doing my own job once or twice by others who felt they knew how to do it better. Sadly, you're right, there are a lot of folks out there who just plain get in the way at emergency scenes.

This started out to be a discussion regarding the removal of the fire alarm system and the lack of adequate backup. So, Joe, my old pal, how about losing the personal attacks and coming up with something halfway intelligent on the subject of public safety communications?

Happy Haloween!

Steve

[Guest wakeup]

Well, finally the Gamewell Fire Alarm Telegraph system in Kearny is history. I guess it was only a matter of time since many cities have long since removed these systems. But I have some concerns:

1. The usual rationale for removing fire telegraph systems is that with the proliferation of cellphones it is faster to report a fire that way. Indeed, it seems that many people, especially people who don't consider their residence permanent, don't have a "land line" in their homes. This is a problem, since dialing 911 on a cellphone does not provide the 911 operator with your address and telephone number. That technology is still in the works. So, in the event of a language barrier or someone overcome by smoke prior to giving the address, the cellphone is useless. One might then say, "well, install a phone line and use 911 if you need help." Well, that might work elsewhere, but in Kearny...

2. When you dial 911 your call is answered by the Hudson County PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point) in Jersey City (or Secaucus, I cannot recall right now; it makes no real difference). On the operator's "ANI/ALI" screen will be your telephone number and the address on file for that number, which, most of the time, is correct. Also on the console are "direct transfer" buttons marked POLICE, EMS, and FIRE. Pressing any of these SHOULD connect you to the dispatch center for the respective service. In the case of the KFD, that would be the Fire Alarm building at the rear of Station 2 on Kearny Ave. Here sits the man whose hand will get fire apparatus moving toward your burning house, car, store, etc.

Well, in Kearny, someone has decided that instead of the FIRE button sending your call to the FIRE dispatcher, it should first go to the POLICE desk at the 2nd Precinct in S. Kearny! Once the officer on duty there, who also has a screen for the address and phone number, takes your information, he must then pick up the phone and dial the Fire Department dispatcher. The information regarding where to send the firefighters is on it's second repetition; remember the old "telephone game" and what usually happened to messages that were repeated? Finally the alarm can be dispatched.

I am at a loss to figure out why it was decided to send FIRE calls to a POLICE desk first, especially since the New Jersey 911 system can send a "direct transfer" call to just about anywhere, including a regular 7-digit number such as 991-1400. I also wonder why Fire Alarm doesn't have an ANI/ALI screen. We're talking one, maybe two, not several dozen as you might find in a large dispatch center. Can't someone find the funds necessary for this? And in the interim, shouldn't a fire call go to the fire dispatcher? Indeed, if things were handled this way, perhaps there wouldn't be several police cars blocking the front of a burining building, the hydrants, and even the street at the corner! Sorry, guys, but I've seen it dozens of times, and not just in Kearny. What makes you do that? If a civilian did that you'd summons if not arrest him and tow the car.

SO, since Kearny has once again fouled up a one-car funeral in its design of it's 911 "system," I would suggest residents and business owners in Kearny commit the following number to memory:

201-991-1400

Program it into your cellphones, and post it by your home phones. New Jersey's 911 legislation prohibits advertising any number except 911 for emergencies, but it doesn't stop you from using the other numbers if you'd like. In this case it may be lifesaving. The fire department's main phone line is taped and has Caller ID, not as good as ANI/ALI, but far better than the alternative.

Also, considering all the above, remember to think twice the next time you hear how long it took the fire department to respond. They can't respond until they get the alarm.

Good luck to the residents of and visitors to my hometown.

Stephen Hanneken, AS, Mobile ICU Paramedic,

Former Supervisor, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, University Hospital, Newark, NJ, EMS Communications Division

Co-Founder, Kearny Volunteer Emergency Rescue Squad- it wasn't supposed to end up this way

Thank You!! Your posting brings light to a very serious and ignored issue regarding Kearny!! Ignore the worthless. They are worthless by choice.

[Guest StudiesandObservations]

Well, finally the Gamewell Fire Alarm Telegraph system in Kearny is history. I guess it was only a matter of time since many cities have long since removed these systems. But I have some concerns:

1. The usual rationale for removing fire telegraph systems is that with the proliferation of cellphones it is faster to report a fire that way. Indeed, it seems that many people, especially people who don't consider their residence permanent, don't have a "land line" in their homes. This is a problem, since dialing 911 on a cellphone does not provide the 911 operator with your address and telephone number. That technology is still in the works. So, in the event of a language barrier or someone overcome by smoke prior to giving the address, the cellphone is useless.  One might then say, "well, install a phone line and use 911 if you need help." Well, that might work elsewhere, but in Kearny...

2. When you dial 911 your call is answered by the Hudson County PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point) in Jersey City (or Secaucus, I cannot recall right now; it makes no real difference). On the operator's "ANI/ALI" screen will be your telephone number and the address on file for that number, which, most of the time, is correct. Also on the console are "direct transfer" buttons marked POLICE, EMS, and FIRE. Pressing any of these SHOULD connect you to the dispatch center for the respective service. In the case of the KFD, that would be the Fire Alarm building at the rear of Station 2 on Kearny Ave. Here sits the man whose hand will get fire apparatus moving toward your burning house, car, store, etc.

Well, in Kearny, someone has decided that instead of the FIRE button sending your call to the FIRE dispatcher, it should first go to the POLICE desk at the 2nd Precinct in S. Kearny! Once the officer on duty there, who also has a screen for the address and phone number, takes your information, he must then pick up the phone and dial the Fire Department dispatcher. The information regarding where to send the firefighters is on it's second repetition; remember the old "telephone game" and what usually happened to messages that were repeated? Finally the alarm can be dispatched.

I am at a loss to figure out why it was decided to send FIRE calls to a POLICE desk first, especially since the New Jersey 911 system can send a "direct transfer" call to just about anywhere, including a regular 7-digit number such as 991-1400. I also wonder why Fire Alarm doesn't have an ANI/ALI screen. We're talking one, maybe two, not several dozen as you might find in a large dispatch center. Can't someone find the funds necessary for this? And in the interim, shouldn't a fire call go to the fire dispatcher? Indeed, if things were handled this way, perhaps there wouldn't be several police cars blocking the front of a burining building, the hydrants, and even the street at the corner! Sorry, guys, but I've seen it dozens of times, and not just in Kearny. What makes you do that? If a civilian did that you'd summons if not arrest him and tow the car.

SO, since Kearny has once again fouled up a one-car funeral in its design of it's 911 "system," I would suggest residents and business owners in Kearny commit the following number to memory:

201-991-1400

Program it into your cellphones, and post it by your home phones. New Jersey's 911 legislation prohibits advertising any number except 911 for emergencies, but it doesn't stop you from using the other numbers if you'd like. In this case it may be lifesaving. The fire department's main phone line is taped and has Caller ID, not as good as ANI/ALI, but far better than the alternative.

Also, considering all the above, remember to think twice the next time you hear how long it took the fire department to respond. They can't respond until they get the alarm.

Good luck to the residents of and visitors to my hometown.

Stephen Hanneken, AS, Mobile ICU Paramedic,

Former Supervisor, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, University Hospital, Newark, NJ, EMS Communications Division

Co-Founder, Kearny Volunteer Emergency Rescue Squad- it wasn't supposed to end up this way

Thank You!! Your posting brings light to a very serious and ignored issue regarding Kearny!! Ignore the worthless. They are worthless by choice.

The problem that Steve pointed out is nothing new however?? Where has the outrage been for the last 10 years since the Enhanced 911 system went into effect? Not to mention that as the sone of a Policeman, Steve of ALL people should know that since 911's inception all calls went first to the desk in South Kearny, and was disseminated to the appropriate agency from there. The simple fact is that while its not the best possible system, it DOES, in fact work. The town has been doing away with the position of Electrician/Lineman by attrition intentionally for years, this has not been a secret. The time to protest that doing away with the Gamewell system should have been done LONG before the decision was already made to kill it. This, im sorry to say is a case of too little, too late, Sorry Steve.

[turk182]

Hi Steve long time no see i hoe you and your familyare well. Enought of the plesantries. What i find so amazing is how most peopke can be easily distracted from the discussion at hand. Steve hs brought up a valid concern and offered the residents of Kearny an alternative to dialing 911. I myself dont nessiarily agree with that alternative butit is useful. To answer some ofhe concers here there may or maynot be a delay in th apprpriate agency responding to an emergency but everyone must realize is thatin a large majority of both medicaland fie related calls all THREE of the agenciesare required to be there. the police for crowd and traffic controll, the ambulance to provide care for the sick and injured bot general public and fire-figter alike and the fireman who is fighing the fire. Having saidthat having one central call recieving center who will then make the nessisary notifications is the lesserof all the evils. As studies said it may not be the best system but it does work. So lets getback on topic and stop bashing Steve and hiscredentials as well as the fire dept.

William Krowl EMT

KVERS member (since1983)

[MystiqueI]

Let's not forget the 911 operator's.

Recently my mom found my dad on the kitchen floor - not breathing, turning purple and the only physical response was the kicking of his legs and feet. My mom called 911 - the operator asked my mom to put her ear next to his mouth to see if he was breathing, my mother told the operator all of the above and the operator then told my mother - "ok then, if you need us call us back". My mother insisted she dispatch an ambulance, however by the time EMS arrived my father was picking himself up off the floor. My dad didn't remember any of what just happened to him, he told EMS he was fine (although it was determined his BP was 210/180) my dad said he was going to bed. EMS left. My mother panicked and called me at work, after speaking with my dad he agreed to go to the ER. My mom took him via taxi to WHH, he was later transported to St. Michael's in Newark where he was diagnosed with a heart condition and he now has a pacemaker. So you can all b**** and complain about response time but as in this case the delay can start from the 911 operator. I thank God today my dad is ok. My question is if someone calls 911 and tells an operator a patient isn't breathing and is turning purple who the hell is she to play GOD and tell my mother if you need us call us back. It's a good thing he's not dead, or I'd be looking for this 911 operator.