Fire Dept.

[Guest Guest]

Most of Harrisons long-term money problems would go away if the new Mayor and council can turn it into a volunteer Fire Dept. or disband the whole thing. Training is minimal, and incidents are almost 0 to 1 a year while the town pours $6 million dollars a year into this useless black hole. It would be an immediate savings of the $6 million a year, thats $30 million in five years and nobody would even know the difference. There would only be the charge per run of a private ambulance Corp. and a per diem expense to pay Newark or Kearny if there is a fire. What kind of business, is successful if they have two supervisors or three to one worker. Its a joke of an organization. Response times, as the fireladies always bring up, is not an issue because Kearny and Newark have been first on the scene at the few fires Harrison have had. One time, most should remember, HFD was members were scared and parked the ladder truck so far away that it was useless. I believe the JCFD did the work as the HFD watched at a distance. The equiptment, if a deal was made with Kearny or Newark, can fetch a handsome price at it is almost brand new from lack of use. Wise up and give the voters/taxpayers a break from this cesspool of nepotism and cronyism.

[Guest BlueTideBacker]

Most of Harrisons long-term money problems would go away if the new Mayor and council can turn it into a volunteer Fire Dept. or disband the whole thing. Training is minimal, and incidents are almost 0 to 1 a year while the town pours $6 million dollars a year into this useless black hole. It would be an immediate savings of the $6 million a year, thats $30 million in five years and nobody would even know the difference. There would only be the charge per run of a private ambulance Corp. and a per diem expense to pay Newark or Kearny if there is a fire. What kind of business, is successful if they have two supervisors or three to one worker. Its a joke of an organization. Response times, as the fireladies always bring up, is not an issue because Kearny and Newark have been first on the scene at the few fires Harrison have had. One time, most should remember, HFD was members were scared and parked the ladder truck so far away that it was useless. I believe the JCFD did the work as the HFD watched at a distance. The equiptment, if a deal was made with Kearny or Newark, can fetch a handsome price at it is almost brand new from lack of use. Wise up and give the voters/taxpayers a break from this cesspool of nepotism and cronyism.

Your jealousy is pathetic. If you don't like your job as a Harrison cop you should quit and try to get a job in Toms River where you live.

[doc13mets]

Most of Harrisons long-term money problems would go away if the new Mayor and council can turn it into a volunteer Fire Dept. or disband the whole thing. Training is minimal, and incidents are almost 0 to 1 a year while the town pours $6 million dollars a year into this useless black hole. It would be an immediate savings of the $6 million a year, thats $30 million in five years and nobody would even know the difference. There would only be the charge per run of a private ambulance Corp. and a per diem expense to pay Newark or Kearny if there is a fire. What kind of business, is successful if they have two supervisors or three to one worker. Its a joke of an organization. Response times, as the fireladies always bring up, is not an issue because Kearny and Newark have been first on the scene at the few fires Harrison have had. One time, most should remember, HFD was members were scared and parked the ladder truck so far away that it was useless. I believe the JCFD did the work as the HFD watched at a distance. The equiptment, if a deal was made with Kearny or Newark, can fetch a handsome price at it is almost brand new from lack of use. Wise up and give the voters/taxpayers a break from this cesspool of nepotism and cronyism.

This post is to correct inaccuracies of the original post. First off I will assume when you spoke of Newark you meant East Newark? Since Newark is in another county and does very very little mutual aid to Harrison in regards to the fire service.

I will not factor EMS responsibilities in my points at all.

You can’t have no fire protection (ie disband the whole thing) are you nuts? Could Harrison survive with an all volunteer FD? Yes. Would it effect taxes much? No. There is not a substantial difference of when it comes to property tax between East Newark and Harrison. Also Home owners insurance rates will climb in Harrison if the Department changed from Career to Volunteer. (Because there ISO rating would drop)

Per diem expense to pay “Newark” (I assume East Newark) and Kearny when fire incidents occur? Ok I have no idea what you are talking about. Mutual Aid agreements in this area do not work that way. Towns give each other mutual aid free of charge because it is reciprocal. No payments or bills are sent between towns for helping each other with fire incidents.

0-1 Incidents a year? Ok now you’ve really lost me (as if you didn’t succeed already). The most recent data on the Division of Fire Safety website is the nffs report from 2008. (This does not include EMS as I’ve already deducted it)

74 – Fire (obviously range in size)

5 – Explosion (no fire)

153 – Hazardous Conditions

245 – Service Calls

54 – Good intent

190 – False Alarms

30 – Weather related

19 – Other

770 – Calls in 2008 (About right in proportion to Kearny FD’s responses in comparison to the population difference)

And remember that’s from 2008. All across the United States fire calls are on the rise. I would wager at the end of this year they are about 850-900.

Proper span of control according to the NFPA is 3-7. Optimal is 5. So if you are 5 or below you are in good shape. So Harrison is right on the NFPA standard.

You talk about how Harrison fire fighters are scared? Well I don’t see it. I see them at fires working. They don’t hide or anything that you are talking about. Yes Kearny and East Newark are also at most of their fires but that goes for just about any town with any fire. Mutual aid is a common practice.

Harrison has 2 pretty new Engines but their Ladder is OLD. They also have a nice reserve engine, its not new but it certainly isn’t old.

Harrison should probably work to run only 1 Ladder, 1 Engine and 1 or 2 EMS a day. (With a second being available if they take say the Ladder out of service if they have multiple calls). Running 2 engines and a ladder and EMS is overkill. But 1, 1 and 1 is just about right and will keep the residents safe.

[Guest Guest]

While I agree the original post contained numerous innaccuracies, I believe there is still a valid argument to be made to make changes to the current FD. I would argue to either switch to an all volunteer department or to merge services with Kearny and E. Newark.

There would certainly be cost savings by switching to an all volunteer department, although the first post clearly overstated the amount. Medical costs and pension costs could definitely be lowered. Those liabilities are the main drivers of our current and long-term fiscal problems anyway. If other towns are capable of maintaining all volunteer forces without dramatic decreases in service, Harrison should be able to as well.

This isn't a cure all. I am sure a professional, paid FD is better than an all volunteer one in terms of effectiveness, response times, etc. I don't want to bash the FD - they do great work and are probably great human beings. However, the money just isn't there anymore to pay for it in small towns, particularly in NJ. People live longer than they used to, pension obligations and health care costs can't keep rising without either more people paying taxes or taxes increasing each year. Demographic change is the bad guy here, not firemen; time to face the fact that we have to have cuts in our local services or start paying higher taxes.

I think the best option would be to merge services between Kearny, E. Newark, and Harrison. The geographic boundaries between these 3 towns are basically meaningless and you can reduce overhead by merging the services (down to 1 chief, cut the locations, number of trucks, personnel, etc.).

[Guest guest]

OMG. LOL. You answered the question. You said Harrison COULD survive with a volunteer fire dept. AS to the ISO rating, I doubt that would equal $24 million dollars in 4 years, not even remotely close. By per diem I meant just what it says, pay them for the service it requires to put out on one call. Very simple to calculate. The Division of FS gets the "incident" reports from the HFD and just compiles them so thats not accurate. If HFD reported 200 fires, they would print 200 fires. more

74 fires in 2008 - even the staunchest HFD peron would laugh at that. Thats why you put "range in size." I certainly stand by my 1 fire/year number. As to the other 73 you have a lot of explaing to do.

5 explsions - these are electrical in nature and PSE&G fixes them, this isn't the movies, OK

153 hazardous conditions - I guess you mean an ice slick on the road where one guy puts some sawdust. Street Dept. could handle that.

245 service calls - grocery store, credit union, all personal errands.

54 good intent - what the hell is that?

190 false alarms - sorry, but the cops are always called first in Harrison to "check it out" before waking up the part-time firemans job because they need their sleep to work in the morning at their other job. Just ask the HPD supervisors. These orders come from the 3rd floor of town hall.

49 weather related and other - Are you kidding? Just fluff

Where do you get that,"all across the U.S. fire calls are on the rise." More fires are falsely generated by greedy, do nothing fireman. What possible reason can you put forward as to why there are more fires each year. Its not like crime. Crime goes up in a bad economy, how do fires? What the hell is span of control. Are you trying to justify three supervisors for 1 fireman. Sorry, no good. Disband the HFD and save the town.

Does your study include how many members of the same family or friends of politicians are on the HFD. That I would say is 100% because of the $100,000 to $150,000 per year pay scale. Why didn't you include that statistic. Also, why only 1 minority out of 42 fireman. This screams nepotism and discrimination across the board. No Hispanics when half the town is Hispanic. Thats just wrong!

[doc13mets]

OMG. LOL. You answered the question. You said Harrison COULD survive with a volunteer fire dept. AS to the ISO rating, I doubt that would equal $24 million dollars in 4 years, not even remotely close. By per diem I meant just what it says, pay them for the service it requires to put out on one call. Very simple to calculate. The Division of FS gets the "incident" reports from the HFD and just compiles them so thats not accurate. If HFD reported 200 fires, they would print 200 fires. more

74 fires in 2008 - even the staunchest HFD peron would laugh at that. Thats why you put "range in size." I certainly stand by my 1 fire/year number. As to the other 73 you have a lot of explaing to do.

5 explsions - these are electrical in nature and PSE&G fixes them, this isn't the movies, OK

153 hazardous conditions - I guess you mean an ice slick on the road where one guy puts some sawdust. Street Dept. could handle that.

245 service calls - grocery store, credit union, all personal errands.

54 good intent - what the hell is that?

190 false alarms - sorry, but the cops are always called first in Harrison to "check it out" before waking up the part-time firemans job because they need their sleep to work in the morning at their other job. Just ask the HPD supervisors. These orders come from the 3rd floor of town hall.

49 weather related and other - Are you kidding? Just fluff

Where do you get that,"all across the U.S. fire calls are on the rise." More fires are falsely generated by greedy, do nothing fireman. What possible reason can you put forward as to why there are more fires each year. Its not like crime. Crime goes up in a bad economy, how do fires? What the hell is span of control. Are you trying to justify three supervisors for 1 fireman. Sorry, no good. Disband the HFD and save the town.

Does your study include how many members of the same family or friends of politicians are on the HFD. That I would say is 100% because of the $100,000 to $150,000 per year pay scale. Why didn't you include that statistic. Also, why only 1 minority out of 42 fireman. This screams nepotism and discrimination across the board. No Hispanics when half the town is Hispanic. Thats just wrong!

First off. Thank you for responding in an intelligent manner. Most people can not (or do not) on this board. The savings wouldn't be 24 million. For one Harrison would need a pretty large Volunteer Department for the type of town they are in the range about or close to 100 members or so. It would be difficult to man. Kearny is talking about cutbacks possibly they are able to cover their town and a little more but couldn't just add on Harrison as simple as that. Response time would be increased dramatically. Whether you realize it or not the initial first minutes at a fire can often meant the difference between a small fire and a huge fire. Harrison has a number a pretty larger number of small house fires. Maybe Harrison exaggerates there numbers a little bit. But if you look at Kearny's compared to Harrisons it's proportionally accurate. Which leads me to believe it's more correct then not correct.

There has been at least 4-5 (and that just from memory they could very well of had more) decent size fires this year in Harrison. (By decent I mean at least 2 alarms)

I assume you mean by PSE&G fixing them the FD must respond and monitor the situation until PSE&G arrive some 2 hours later.

No hazardous conditions are not slick roads. They can be poles/wires/trees down. They can be roofs of houses blown onto the street. They can be a wide variety of things but it required the FD to respond and help alleviate the situation.

Those are not service calls.

Good intent means it turned out to be nothing. But the caller had a genuine concern. Smell of Gas that really wasn't gas. Smoke that really wasn't smoke caused by fire. Things of that nature.

I heard Harrison FD go to tons a bunch of F/A's a week. So I know this to be untrue.

Where I get that all across the U.S. fire calls are on the rise? Well there is tons of DATA to support that. Today fire departments are getting called for more and more stuff that is not directly fire in nature. And yes Fire's do go up big time in bad economy's. There are tons more "insurance" jobs when the economy is bad. Plenty of data to back that up as well.

Span of Control is a fire scene standard. NFPA standards help govern what fire departments need to do to create safer environments for fire departments when creating protocols and guidelines. One ICS term is Span of Control. It states that a supervisor cannot be responsible for more than 7 people at one time. Optimally 3-5 people. I never said 3 supervisors for 1 FF. I said 3 FF's for 1 supervisor is optimal according to NFPA standards.

No doesn't have anything to do with friends/politicians on HFD. Maybe that was something that did happen at one time. But honestly can't happen anymore. The Civil Service is extremely involved in the hiring process for new FF's. Why are there no Hispanics when the town is half Hispanic? Well thank the NCAAP for that as Harrison does not have a residency requirement it hires off of a list of Essex/Hudson county residents. If Harrison had a residency requirement and a lot of Hispanics went out for the test and if Harrison hired new FF's then I'm sure some would be. But Harrison hasn't hired in some time (5+ years maybe) so it's a moot point anyway.

[doc13mets]

While I agree the original post contained numerous innaccuracies, I believe there is still a valid argument to be made to make changes to the current FD. I would argue to either switch to an all volunteer department or to merge services with Kearny and E. Newark.

There would certainly be cost savings by switching to an all volunteer department, although the first post clearly overstated the amount. Medical costs and pension costs could definitely be lowered. Those liabilities are the main drivers of our current and long-term fiscal problems anyway. If other towns are capable of maintaining all volunteer forces without dramatic decreases in service, Harrison should be able to as well.

This isn't a cure all. I am sure a professional, paid FD is better than an all volunteer one in terms of effectiveness, response times, etc. I don't want to bash the FD - they do great work and are probably great human beings. However, the money just isn't there anymore to pay for it in small towns, particularly in NJ. People live longer than they used to, pension obligations and health care costs can't keep rising without either more people paying taxes or taxes increasing each year. Demographic change is the bad guy here, not firemen; time to face the fact that we have to have cuts in our local services or start paying higher taxes.

I think the best option would be to merge services between Kearny, E. Newark, and Harrison. The geographic boundaries between these 3 towns are basically meaningless and you can reduce overhead by merging the services (down to 1 chief, cut the locations, number of trucks, personnel, etc.).

Two good reply's. I'm starting to like this.

It could make sense in the long run to create a regional fire department for West Hudson.

If the FD was cut today, I doubt any tax dollars would be saved, they would just be reallocated. That I would be willing to wager a paycheck on.

The geography of the area is the main reason for a paid FD. Because how close houses are together fire's are extremely prone to becoming large problems because 1 house fire can quickly become 3 house fires. A lot of paid firefighters from outside this area are shocked to find East Newark with volunteer department. The comment is usually like... "Really with houses being that close together in that Urban environment, wow."

Do I think the system needs to change? Yes. Fire/Police unions need to realize the difficult economic environment we live in today and be more willing to make contributions to save jobs and continue growth in these departments. Public safety should never be compromised.

[Guest guest]

What about ******** the fire ****** His town owned vehicle in in his driveway at home 23 hours a day. The only good thing is that very little mileage mileage is put on it in a year because Burger King and Wendys aren't that far. The rest of the time he walks around town in civilian clothes or going to firemans lunches where they themselves, not the public, get rewards for no more than getting a cat out of a tree.

Also, what the heck is with wearing shorts and the sunbathing on the benches. They look like a bunch of fools and idiots in shorts. Their clothes get laudered and delivered back to them neatly pressed and cleaned by a laundry service so why do they need a clothing allowance. If their fires are so dangerous, wouldn't they want their legs protected from the heat and wear pants at least. They wear shorts because they know damn well they aren't going to go to a fire and it completely humiliating to the town. I know of no other town that wears shorts. You can defend them all you want, but the fact is that they are a waste of taxpayer/voters dollars, only 1 or 2 live in town, there are almost no fires and they are a shining example of discrimination. Its white man's welfare.

Edited October 16, 2010 by KOTW
Content.

[Guest guest]

As to the staement that there are more fires in a bad economy, I think thats a really far stretch. I think that 99% of the public, if they fall behind on their mortgage, would ever consider burning down their house and take a chance that they might inadvertantly be taking the life of a person or kids that live next doot. It is a very serious criminal offense with severe consequences. If you could ever provide any information as to this ever happening in Harrison or even a house being burned to the ground by arson in Harrison for financial reasons I would be shocked. It just not normal thinking. You still didn't address why you think it is appropriate to have 2 or 3 supervisors per fireman, which is true of Harrison. Please explain how this is necessary or fiscally responsible. If it were a privatee sector company, they would be out of business within a month. What it boils down to is irresponsible, reckless but planned and collusion by the Mayor and Council to make sure certain people or families are set for life rather than the concern of cost to the citizens/taxpayers/voters. When the town makes a Police promotion, they do it in front of the stage at council meetings. When fireman are promoted, it is done by a phone call to keep it secretive from the citizens outrage. That is another planned, premediated decision to deceive the people by the Mayor and council. Why the difference in the promotional process?

[doc13mets]

What about ******** the fire ****** His town owned vehicle in in his driveway at home 23 hours a day. The only good thing is that very little mileage mileage is put on it in a year because Burger King and Wendys aren't that far. The rest of the time he walks around town in civilian clothes or going to firemans lunches where they themselves, not the public, get rewards for no more than getting a cat out of a tree.

Also, what the heck is with wearing shorts and the sunbathing on the benches. They look like a bunch of fools and idiots in shorts. Their clothes get laudered and delivered back to them neatly pressed and cleaned by a laundry service so why do they need a clothing allowance. If their fires are so dangerous, wouldn't they want their legs protected from the heat and wear pants at least. They wear shorts because they know damn well they aren't going to go to a fire and it completely humiliating to the town. I know of no other town that wears shorts. You can defend them all you want, but the fact is that they are a waste of taxpayer/voters dollars, only 1 or 2 live in town, there are almost no fires and they are a shining example of discrimination. Its white man's welfare.

A lot of paid departments can wear shorts. (During summer months) Just look at the surrounding paid towns and you will find this. And if heat gets through the bunker pants your in the kind of trouble that the difference between shorts and pants won't matter much.

Kearny did away with their clothing allowance I believe a few contracts ago. More and more towns are doing away with it and the FD is providing attire on a need basis. I think this policy makes more sense.

You have to understand the present hiring practices are different from years ago. So stop talking about the past when there are new rules to be followed when it comes to hiring. Part of that new rule allows non-residents to get hired. I personally feel qualified residents should be hired first, if there are no qualified residents then qualified residents from a county list and so forth. And that goes for all towns.

[doc13mets]

As to the staement that there are more fires in a bad economy, I think thats a really far stretch. I think that 99% of the public, if they fall behind on their mortgage, would ever consider burning down their house and take a chance that they might inadvertantly be taking the life of a person or kids that live next doot. It is a very serious criminal offense with severe consequences. If you could ever provide any information as to this ever happening in Harrison or even a house being burned to the ground by arson in Harrison for financial reasons I would be shocked. It just not normal thinking. You still didn't address why you think it is appropriate to have 2 or 3 supervisors per fireman, which is true of Harrison. Please explain how this is necessary or fiscally responsible. If it were a privatee sector company, they would be out of business within a month. What it boils down to is irresponsible, reckless but planned and collusion by the Mayor and Council to make sure certain people or families are set for life rather than the concern of cost to the citizens/taxpayers/voters. When the town makes a Police promotion, they do it in front of the stage at council meetings. When fireman are promoted, it is done by a phone call to keep it secretive from the citizens outrage. That is another planned, premediated decision to deceive the people by the Mayor and council. Why the difference in the promotional process?

I'm not saying it happens in Harrison, I was talking about across the US fire calls are up. That goes for non fire related issues as well. And Arsons are up big time more and more fires are being investigated for this. Sadly less then 99% of the public think that way. And its not just homes its commercial fronts as well.

I never once said it is appropriate to have 2 or 3 supervisors per firefighter. I am not sure this is true. If it true then that is wrong. But I am pretty sure if it was true it was corrected with the cutbacks they made this past year.

I don't really know what you are talking about

[Guest guest]

You are very knowledeable about the HFD. It shows. So you also DO know that there are 2 to 3 supervisors per fireman. Quit skirting the issue and give a reasonable answer, which you cannot, why this is the protocal for the HFD. My answer is nepotism and cronyism at the expense of continued dismantling of police protection for the town. It is not fair to the residents. It's gotta change because when people look for a place to live they usually ask,"Is the neighborhood safe?" not'" How many fires are in the neighborhood?"

[Guest Guest]

The FD complaints don't have to be personal. I know it feels good to personalize things and it is much more exciting than talking about abstract things, but it really isn't helpful.

If only talking about the merits of defined contribution vs. defined benefit pension plans and the costs of public employee healthcare were exciting perhaps we could have a legitimate discussion and then elect competent people. Instead we waste our energy vilifying individuals over nonsense.

There isn't money left out there anymore for the benefits given to public employees! This isn't the 60s anymore! By and large, public employees do valuable work. That isn't the issue. Sure some of them either are corrupt, bad people, or are generally incompetent, but that is the same as any other industry. The issue is we can't afford the retirement age set as it currently is, defined benefit pensions, and healthcare plans that don't have cost-sharing. We need to either decide to have major tax hikes to pay for the system as is, or to make all public employees go into benefit systems like the private sector has been switching to or some combination of both. It isn't anyone's fault this has to happen. The only people that can possibly be blamed are the politicians that continue to tell people they can have their cake and eat it too. You can't. Sorry, the choices S**K, but you still have to make the choice.

[Guest guest]

I asked a simple and direct question. You are very familiar with the workings and planning of the HFD but have gone onto some senseless diatribe rather than than answer,"Do you feel its justified that there is 2 supervisors per fireman?" Just answer the the question that is asked. You instead have decided to the political game by detracting from answering the direct question. MY answer is to demote immediately from the over $20,000.00 raise from fireman to captain and address the problem. You were being fair, but you have been cornered and just don't have an answer. Just admit it.

[doc13mets]

I asked a simple and direct question. You are very familiar with the workings and planning of the HFD but have gone onto some senseless diatribe rather than than answer,"Do you feel its justified that there is 2 supervisors per fireman?" Just answer the the question that is asked. You instead have decided to the political game by detracting from answering the direct question. MY answer is to demote immediately from the over $20,000.00 raise from fireman to captain and address the problem. You were being fair, but you have been cornered and just don't have an answer. Just admit it.

Iwill tell you the numbers I know and the numbers I believe to be true. I am not a Harrison Firefighter. You could probably call the fire department and get these answers correctly.

1 - Fire Chief

4 - Battalion Chiefs

That’s all I know for sure. Now the rest of these numbers are estimates because they are not up to date, but are extremely close maybe 1 or 2 off each number. Not sure how recent cut back effected this.

12 - Captains

32 - Firefighters

I've said before I think Harrison could survive with running 1 Ladder, 1 Engine and 1 (or 2) EMS units. Also another cutback could be instead of having 3 Captains on duty demote 2 captains per shift to Lieutenants (which would be a newly created position) and shave 10K off there salary a year.

3 supervisors for every 1 firefighter is a lie as simple as that.

[Guest guest]

I can remember before the recent rtirements there were 20 to 25 captain and I believe between 10 to 15 fireman. Don't play ignorant now because you ranout of a commodity known as the truth. Forget the national scale, this is a local website and a one square mile town. 42 fire dept. employes with only 10 to 15 fireman is an outrageous abuse of town funda. it is breaking the taxpayers/voters backs.

[Guest Guest]

I asked a simple and direct question. You are very familiar with the workings and planning of the HFD but have gone onto some senseless diatribe rather than than answer,"Do you feel its justified that there is 2 supervisors per fireman?" Just answer the the question that is asked. You instead have decided to the political game by detracting from answering the direct question. MY answer is to demote immediately from the over $20,000.00 raise from fireman to captain and address the problem. You were being fair, but you have been cornered and just don't have an answer. Just admit it.

To eleminate all this stupidity on your part, as of Monday October 18, according to public records, the Fire Dept has 43 members.

1 Chief

3 Batt. Chiefs

11 Captains

28 Firemen

Instead of running your mouth on this moronic website, go to the Town Hall and find out the facts.

[doc13mets]

I can remember before the recent rtirements there were 20 to 25 captain and I believe between 10 to 15 fireman. Don't play ignorant now because you ranout of a commodity known as the truth. Forget the national scale, this is a local website and a one square mile town. 42 fire dept. employes with only 10 to 15 fireman is an outrageous abuse of town funda. it is breaking the taxpayers/voters backs.

I don't lie, can't you see that. I say when I know something and I say when I don't know something. I know very little about the Harrison FD's state of affairs 4-5 years ago. One thing I do know is you can't just throw out the national scale, cause its not a national scale. It's call a NFPA standard. It is guidelines that are constantly corrected and kept up to date to help fire department keep adequate staffing for the proper protection and safety of citizens and firefighters.

The fire department is not breaking the taxpayers back, the % of property taxes that is actually allocated to the FD is very small. If you did cut the FD taxes would not be reduced. Politicians never actually lower taxes even if they say they will.

The bigger issue at hand is the Medical/Pension issues. This is a statewide problem as police/fire unions are fighting this. But the fact is they will eventually have to give in and chip into these programs. Most people pay a portion of their benefits its only fair that police/fire make that concessions to protect their jobs and keep the residents safe.

[Guest guest]

so let me get this right the firemen who are in riding the ambulance around sick people and exposed to all kinds of germs and blood and puke should have to pay for the healthcare for themselves if they get sick.or the cop who gets hurt breaking up a fight he should have to pay also how is this fair in any way?

[Guest Voice of Reason.]

so let me get this right the firemen who are in riding the ambulance around sick people and exposed to all kinds of germs and blood and puke should have to pay for the healthcare for themselves if they get sick.or the cop who gets hurt breaking up a fight he should have to pay also how is this fair in any way?

Of course it's fair. Cops and FF's aren't the only people that may get hurt on the job. Miners, construction workers and many other suffer injuries and death on the job and I'm sure they all don't get free healthcare for life.

Yesterday's Star-Ledger showed NJ's pension systems will be bankrupt by 2019 unless changes are made, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[Guest guest]

people in the nj pension system never stopped funding there pension it is the towns and the state that stopped there funding.if they would pay back the money borrowed and owed there would be no problem ,they caused the problem.

[Guest guest]

Of course it's fair. Cops and FF's aren't the only people that may get hurt on the job. Miners, construction workers and many other suffer injuries and death on the job and I'm sure they all don't get free healthcare for life.

Yesterday's Star-Ledger showed NJ's pension systems will be bankrupt by 2019 unless changes are made, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

If towns and the state would properly fund the pension system, and stop borrowing from it, there would have never been a problem.

[Guest Mr Mike]

Sad but true, the pension problems the State is now experiencing were not brought about by the employees but by the States raiding and pension holidays beginning in the Whitman administration and continuing to this very day, once again the State is opting to not pay it's share of the pension contribution though fully funding the pension fund once again was one of Gov. Christie's campaign promises.

Oh well.

22 years ago if the State came to me and said "we can't afford to fund our half of your pension" I would have replied "fine I'll pay both halves and your out". And my pension would still be there and solvent not a cash cow for politicians to rape and pillage til it's done then blame me for the lack of funds.

There was an agreement made here and I as well as the rest of my brothers have kept our part unfortunately there is no honor in politics or politicians.

Healthcare? During negotiations many Depts have negotiated some sort of co-pay others have opted for lower raises or similar agreements to off-set costs this is part of the contract negotioting process a process I will say is tilted in favor of the Towns in as much as the Unions are prohibited from job actions such as striking yet the Towns can and do delay the process for as long as possible with no fear of any consequenses.

This year Gov. Christie inacted through legislation a 1.5% co-pay from the members of Police and Fire

no negotiations no representation no equity.This money though does not go to Healthcare but into the Towns coffers to do as they will with. Have your taxes or for that matter mine gone down?

If you think taking from me and my brothers will solve your problems or even allieviate them you are sadly mistaken we'll both end up with nothing. Your local and state representatives on the other hand....

Mike

[Guest guest]

Sad but true, the pension problems the State is now experiencing were not brought about by the employees but by the States raiding and pension holidays beginning in the Whitman administration and continuing to this very day, once again the State is opting to not pay it's share of the pension contribution though fully funding the pension fund once again was one of Gov. Christie's campaign promises.

Oh well.

22 years ago if the State came to me and said "we can't afford to fund our half of your pension" I would have replied "fine I'll pay both halves and your out". And my pension would still be there and solvent not a cash cow for politicians to rape and pillage til it's done then blame me for the lack of funds.

There was an agreement made here and I as well as the rest of my brothers have kept our part unfortunately there is no honor in politics or politicians.

Healthcare? During negotiations many Depts have negotiated some sort of co-pay others have opted for lower raises or similar agreements to off-set costs this is part of the contract negotioting process a process I will say is tilted in favor of the Towns in as much as the Unions are prohibited from job actions such as striking yet the Towns can and do delay the process for as long as possible with no fear of any consequenses.

This year Gov. Christie inacted through legislation a 1.5% co-pay from the members of Police and Fire

no negotiations no representation no equity.This money though does not go to Healthcare but into the Towns coffers to do as they will with. Have your taxes or for that matter mine gone down?

If you think taking from me and my brothers will solve your problems or even allieviate them you are sadly mistaken we'll both end up with nothing. Your local and state representatives on the other hand....

Mike

So, is there anything we can do to make the State pay back the funds? I thought their contribution was a "sacred trust", as quoted by that fat sack of baloney down in Trenton. Isn't there a class action suit that can be brought against all the lousy politicians that created this situation? Can't the Federal Gov't. step in and help us?

We followed our end of the agreement and they blatantly renegged on theirs. There must be something that can be done.