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Let's do Bible study. Each day, I'll post a verse or two from the Bible, and we can discuss them. Let's start with this:

"If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death." (Exodus 21:28-29.)

You have to wonder what God has against oxen. Other animals kill people, too, but apparently God just has it in for murderous oxen and their owners. What if the ox kills someone accidentally? What if the ox stomps someone to death, but doesn't gore him? Did God mean to include stomping to death, or did he literally mean to limit this to goring? Why would he limit it like that?

Maybe God didn't mean just oxen. Maybe he meant any animal that kills a man or a woman. But then maybe he didn't. Maybe he just meant oxen. The problem is, we are commanded to carry out God's law. How are we supposed to know what it is, and what happens to us if we guess wrong? How are we supposed to know how literally we must take these commandments?

What if it's not clear? What if someone tells my neighbor that he saw my neighbor's ox kind of rubbing his horns against a man last week, but wasn't really sure if the ox was "wont to push with his horn"? Must my neighbor thereafter keep that ox in, and if he doesn't, what happens to me if I don't kill my neighbor? What if I don't do what God has commanded me to do? What if I guess wrong about what God has commanded me to do?

If we put to death the owner of a dog who attacks a man, maybe we're doing God's will — but then again, maybe we're not! I can't rest another minute until I know for sure whether God is commanding me to do something. I have to know, and I cannot take the chance of being wrong. Not just for me; how could I live with myself knowing I had failed to do what God commanded me to do? Maybe, by killing the dog and his owner, we're breaking the commandment "Thou shalt not kill." (Exodus 20:13.) But if we don't kill the dog and his owner, then maybe we're not doing what God has commanded us to do. What is the punishment for that? Should we be worried more about whether we are doing God's will, or should we be worried more about doing what God wants us to do? If we do what we sincerely think is right, maybe God will be pleased, but then again maybe he won't. Maybe he just wants us to do exactly what he told us to do, and not ask questions.

How are we supposed to know what to do, and why didn't God make it clear? Or maybe he did make it clear, but I'm too willful or stubborn or stupid or ungodly to understand it. So what should I do? Maybe I should just go along with what everyone else is doing, but then what if they're wrong? What if most people are even more willful, more stubborn, more stupid and more ungodly than I am? What if all of civilization has been turning its back on God, more and more as time has gone by, just like people did before God sent down the flood? What if God means for us to follow all of these commandments, and I don't do it?

On the other hand, maybe "shall be put to death" doesn't mean we have to do it. Maybe it just means that God will do it after the person dies. You know, send them to hell forever. But can that be right, when the commandment also requires that he ox be put to death? Doesn't seem so, because oxen don't go to hell, and they don't have eternal souls, so it looks like the commandment means that we are commanded to do the stoning and the putting to death. Is it possible God meant for us to stone the ox, but leave the putting to death of the ox's owner to him? What if we guess wrong?

What if the animal kills a child? Should we kill the animal and his owner? If we do, and we're wrong, we have broken God's commandment. If we don't, and we're wrong, we have broken God's commandment. (Exodus 20:13.) I don't know what God has commanded me to do, and if I guess wrong, I'm eternally --- you know! I may have some serious stoning to do. What am I supposed to do here?

Oh, and not that it's a big deal, but why can't we eat the goring ox? Are we allowed to eat it if we're facing starvation? How about if we're just really, really hungry? What if we don't eat the ox, and ten people die of starvation?

What if someone took it down wrong? What if this translation is incorrect? Supposedly the people who wrote this down were divinely inspired, but were all the translators divinely inspired, too? Were some of them divinely inspired? How can I know which ones were, and which were not?

I know some people say this is just a lot of nitpicking, but how can I afford to be wrong about what God has commanded me to do?

Please, God, tell me what I'm supposed to do in a way that I can understand!

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Let's do Bible study. Each day, I'll post a verse or two from the Bible, and we can discuss them. Let's start with this:

"If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death." (Exodus 21:28-29.)

You have to wonder what God has against oxen. Other animals kill people, too, but apparently God just has it in for murderous oxen and their owners. What if the ox kills someone accidentally? What if the ox stomps someone to death, but doesn't gore him? Did God mean to include stomping to death, or did he literally mean to limit this to goring? Why would he limit it like that?

Maybe God didn't mean just oxen. Maybe he meant any animal that kills a man or a woman. But then maybe he didn't. Maybe he just meant oxen. The problem is, we are commanded to carry out God's law. How are we supposed to know what it is, and what happens to us if we guess wrong? How are we supposed to know how literally we must take these commandments?

What if it's not clear? What if someone tells my neighbor that he saw my neighbor's ox kind of rubbing his horns against a man last week, but wasn't really sure if the ox was "wont to push with his horn"? Must my neighbor thereafter keep that ox in, and if he doesn't, what happens to me if I don't kill my neighbor? What if I don't do what God has commanded me to do? What if I guess wrong about what God has commanded me to do?

If we put to death the owner of a dog who attacks a man, maybe we're doing God's will — but then again, maybe we're not! I can't rest another minute until I know for sure whether God is commanding me to do something. I have to know, and I cannot take the chance of being wrong. Not just for me; how could I live with myself knowing I had failed to do what God commanded me to do? Maybe, by killing the dog and his owner, we're breaking the commandment "Thou shalt not kill." (Exodus 20:13.) But if we don't kill the dog and his owner, then maybe we're not doing what God has commanded us to do. What is the punishment for that? Should we be worried more about whether we are doing God's will, or should we be worried more about doing what God wants us to do? If we do what we sincerely think is right, maybe God will be pleased, but then again maybe he won't. Maybe he just wants us to do exactly what he told us to do, and not ask questions.

How are we supposed to know what to do, and why didn't God make it clear? Or maybe he did make it clear, but I'm too willful or stubborn or stupid or ungodly to understand it. So what should I do? Maybe I should just go along with what everyone else is doing, but then what if they're wrong? What if most people are even more willful, more stubborn, more stupid and more ungodly than I am? What if all of civilization has been turning its back on God, more and more as time has gone by, just like people did before God sent down the flood? What if God means for us to follow all of these commandments, and I don't do it?

On the other hand, maybe "shall be put to death" doesn't mean we have to do it. Maybe it just means that God will do it after the person dies. You know, send them to hell forever. But can that be right, when the commandment also requires that he ox be put to death? Doesn't seem so, because oxen don't go to hell, and they don't have eternal souls, so it looks like the commandment means that we are commanded to do the stoning and the putting to death. Is it possible God meant for us to stone the ox, but leave the putting to death of the ox's owner to him? What if we guess wrong?

What if the animal kills a child? Should we kill the animal and his owner? If we do, and we're wrong, we have broken God's commandment. If we don't, and we're wrong, we have broken God's commandment. (Exodus 20:13.) I don't know what God has commanded me to do, and if I guess wrong, I'm eternally --- you know! I may have some serious stoning to do. What am I supposed to do here?

Oh, and not that it's a big deal, but why can't we eat the goring ox? Are we allowed to eat it if we're facing starvation? How about if we're just really, really hungry? What if we don't eat the ox, and ten people die of starvation?

What if someone took it down wrong? What if this translation is incorrect? Supposedly the people who wrote this down were divinely inspired, but were all the translators divinely inspired, too? Were some of them divinely inspired? How can I know which ones were, and which were not?

I know some people say this is just a lot of nitpicking, but how can I afford to be wrong about what God has commanded me to do?

Please, God, tell me what I'm supposed to do in a way that I can understand!

You really need to get out more.

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Let's do Bible study. Each day, I'll post a verse or two from the Bible, and we can discuss them. Let's start with this:

"If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death." (Exodus 21:28-29.)

You have to wonder what God has against oxen. Other animals kill people, too, but apparently God just has it in for murderous oxen and their owners. What if the ox kills someone accidentally? What if the ox stomps someone to death, but doesn't gore him? Did God mean to include stomping to death, or did he literally mean to limit this to goring? Why would he limit it like that?

Maybe God didn't mean just oxen. Maybe he meant any animal that kills a man or a woman. But then maybe he didn't. Maybe he just meant oxen. The problem is, we are commanded to carry out God's law. How are we supposed to know what it is, and what happens to us if we guess wrong? How are we supposed to know how literally we must take these commandments?

What if it's not clear? What if someone tells my neighbor that he saw my neighbor's ox kind of rubbing his horns against a man last week, but wasn't really sure if the ox was "wont to push with his horn"? Must my neighbor thereafter keep that ox in, and if he doesn't, what happens to me if I don't kill my neighbor? What if I don't do what God has commanded me to do? What if I guess wrong about what God has commanded me to do?

If we put to death the owner of a dog who attacks a man, maybe we're doing God's will — but then again, maybe we're not! I can't rest another minute until I know for sure whether God is commanding me to do something. I have to know, and I cannot take the chance of being wrong. Not just for me; how could I live with myself knowing I had failed to do what God commanded me to do? Maybe, by killing the dog and his owner, we're breaking the commandment "Thou shalt not kill." (Exodus 20:13.) But if we don't kill the dog and his owner, then maybe we're not doing what God has commanded us to do. What is the punishment for that? Should we be worried more about whether we are doing God's will, or should we be worried more about doing what God wants us to do? If we do what we sincerely think is right, maybe God will be pleased, but then again maybe he won't. Maybe he just wants us to do exactly what he told us to do, and not ask questions.

How are we supposed to know what to do, and why didn't God make it clear? Or maybe he did make it clear, but I'm too willful or stubborn or stupid or ungodly to understand it. So what should I do? Maybe I should just go along with what everyone else is doing, but then what if they're wrong? What if most people are even more willful, more stubborn, more stupid and more ungodly than I am? What if all of civilization has been turning its back on God, more and more as time has gone by, just like people did before God sent down the flood? What if God means for us to follow all of these commandments, and I don't do it?

On the other hand, maybe "shall be put to death" doesn't mean we have to do it. Maybe it just means that God will do it after the person dies. You know, send them to hell forever. But can that be right, when the commandment also requires that he ox be put to death? Doesn't seem so, because oxen don't go to hell, and they don't have eternal souls, so it looks like the commandment means that we are commanded to do the stoning and the putting to death. Is it possible God meant for us to stone the ox, but leave the putting to death of the ox's owner to him? What if we guess wrong?

What if the animal kills a child? Should we kill the animal and his owner? If we do, and we're wrong, we have broken God's commandment. If we don't, and we're wrong, we have broken God's commandment. (Exodus 20:13.) I don't know what God has commanded me to do, and if I guess wrong, I'm eternally --- you know! I may have some serious stoning to do. What am I supposed to do here?

Oh, and not that it's a big deal, but why can't we eat the goring ox? Are we allowed to eat it if we're facing starvation? How about if we're just really, really hungry? What if we don't eat the ox, and ten people die of starvation?

What if someone took it down wrong? What if this translation is incorrect? Supposedly the people who wrote this down were divinely inspired, but were all the translators divinely inspired, too? Were some of them divinely inspired? How can I know which ones were, and which were not?

I know some people say this is just a lot of nitpicking, but how can I afford to be wrong about what God has commanded me to do?

Please, God, tell me what I'm supposed to do in a way that I can understand!

And why would God tell you to stone an ox? Is there some point to making the beast suffer?

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Let's do Bible study. Each day, I'll post a verse or two from the Bible, and we can discuss them. Let's start with this:

"If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death." (Exodus 21:28-29.)

You have to wonder what God has against oxen. Other animals kill people, too, but apparently God just has it in for murderous oxen and their owners. What if the ox kills someone accidentally? What if the ox stomps someone to death, but doesn't gore him?

Isn't it obvious that the verse doesn't apply if the ox kills other than by goring someone?

Does it make sense to lead a Bible study if you're that stupid?

Did God mean to include stomping to death, or did he literally mean to limit this to goring? Why would he limit it like that?

Perhaps it has something to do with the behavior of oxen. Perhaps (hear me out) when they are acting aggressively toward humans their preferred method of aggression is goring. You wouldn't expect a pack of wolves to trample a caribou to death, would you?

Maybe God didn't mean just oxen. Maybe he meant any animal that kills a man or a woman. But then maybe he didn't. Maybe he just meant oxen. The problem is, we are commanded to carry out God's law. How are we supposed to know what it is, and what happens to us if we guess wrong? How are we supposed to know how literally we must take these commandments?

It has much to do with the agrarian nature of the society at the time.

If you're smart you won't try to do this Bible study thing until you acquire some clue as to what you're talking about. You'll just be wasting others' time and making a fool of yourself in the process.

You should have started by finding out what an "ox" is in the first place, IMHO.

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Isn't it obvious that the verse doesn't apply if the ox kills other than by goring someone?

Does it make sense to lead a Bible study if you're that stupid?

Perhaps it has something to do with the behavior of oxen. Perhaps (hear me out) when they are acting aggressively toward humans their preferred method of aggression is goring. You wouldn't expect a pack of wolves to trample a caribou to death, would you?

It has much to do with the agrarian nature of the society at the time.

If you're smart you won't try to do this Bible study thing until you acquire some clue as to what you're talking about. You'll just be wasting others' time and making a fool of yourself in the process.

You should have started by finding out what an "ox" is in the first place, IMHO.

Bryan, you disappoint me. You neglected to "refute" ( :):lol::lol::lol::lol: ) most of the arguments. They must have been pretty good. You couldn't even come up with something stupid to say about them, and that's quite unusual for you. Unprecedented, in fact.

On the bolded point, though, you do not disappoint. That's thoroughly stupid. But hey, I'll hear you out. Instead of just guessing that "perhaps it has something to do with the behavior of oxen," perhaps you could explain what purpose would be served in stoning an ox to death - instead of just slitting its throat, which I believe is what people did back then when they were trying to inflict as little suffering as possible. Bryan, you theology tells us that oxen have no souls and are incapable of moral or immoral behavior. Stoning seems rather like a punishment. What's the point in punishing an ox?

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"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 31:14-15)

There it is, in black and white. So why aren't we killing those who work on Saturday, or Sunday, whichever is the "true" Sabbath?

This is not a rhetorical question. If you really take the Bible seriously, and actually believe it is God's word, then this is what you are commanded to do. So why aren't you doing it?

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Bryan, you disappoint me. You neglected to "refute" ( :):ph34r::lol::lol::lol: ) most of the arguments. They must have been pretty good.

That seems unlikely given the start of the argument. The paucity of seriousness in the beginning influenced me to skip the rest since it painted you as an utterly unserious commentator.

You couldn't even come up with something stupid to say about them, and that's quite unusual for you. Unprecedented, in fact.

I guess you're stalling on your attempt to address the critique I posted. :)

On the bolded point, though, you do not disappoint. That's thoroughly stupid. But hey, I'll hear you out. Instead of just guessing that "perhaps it has something to do with the behavior of oxen," perhaps you could explain what purpose would be served in stoning an ox to death - instead of just slitting its throat, which I believe is what people did back then when they were trying to inflict as little suffering as possible.

Again, you've betrayed an astonishing ignorance of the subject you've chosen to address. Keep floundering around. I'm not going to assist except by occasionally pointing out the highlights of your manifest ignorance. Please proceed.

Bryan, you theology tells us that oxen have no souls and are incapable of moral or immoral behavior. Stoning seems rather like a punishment. What's the point in punishing an ox?

Keep guessing, Squidsy.

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Perhaps it has something to do with the behavior of oxen. Perhaps (hear me out) when they are acting aggressively toward humans their preferred method of aggression is goring. You wouldn't expect a pack of wolves to trample a caribou to death, would you?

That's not the point. The question is, why would God tell people to stone an ox?

Here is an account of how people killed animals in those days, when they weren't trying to make a sport of it. It's from Homer's Odyssey, written in the eighth century B.C.E.

"When they had done praying and sprinkling the barley meal Thrasymedes dealt his blow, and brought the heifer down with a stroke that cut through the tendons at the base of her neck, whereon the daughters and daughters-in-law of Nestor, and his venerable wife Eurydice (she was eldest daughter to Clymenus) screamed with delight. Then they lifted the heifer's head from off the ground, and Pisistratus cut her throat. When she had done bleeding and was quite dead, they cut her up."

Why stone the ox, which only inflicts unnecessary suffering? If the ox is dangerous and must be put to death, why not just slit its throat?

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That's not the point. The question is, why would God tell people to stone an ox?

Here is an account of how people killed animals in those days, when they weren't trying to make a sport of it. It's from Homer's Odyssey, written in the eighth century B.C.E.

"When they had done praying and sprinkling the barley meal Thrasymedes dealt his blow, and brought the heifer down with a stroke that cut through the tendons at the base of her neck, whereon the daughters and daughters-in-law of Nestor, and his venerable wife Eurydice (she was eldest daughter to Clymenus) screamed with delight. Then they lifted the heifer's head from off the ground, and Pisistratus cut her throat. When she had done bleeding and was quite dead, they cut her up."

Why stone the ox, which only inflicts unnecessary suffering? If the ox is dangerous and must be put to death, why not just slit its throat?

Don't you know anything? Bryan toooooooooooold you, that's the old lawwwwwwwww! Leave Jesus - I mean Mr. P alooooooooooooone!

(Drying eyes.)

Oh, but hey, I have a question. If stoning isn't the godly response for working on the sabbath now, why was it the right response then?

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"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 31:14-15)

There it is, in black and white. So why aren't we killing those who work on Saturday, or Sunday, whichever is the "true" Sabbath?

This is not a rhetorical question. If you really take the Bible seriously, and actually believe it is God's word, then this is what you are commanded to do. So why aren't you doing it?

Maybe for the smae reasons that some "books" were banned from the Bible. Pick what you like omit the rest.

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That's not the point. The question is, why would God tell people to stone an ox?

Here is an account of how people killed animals in those days, when they weren't trying to make a sport of it. It's from Homer's Odyssey, written in the eighth century B.C.E.

"When they had done praying and sprinkling the barley meal Thrasymedes dealt his blow, and brought the heifer down with a stroke that cut through the tendons at the base of her neck, whereon the daughters and daughters-in-law of Nestor, and his venerable wife Eurydice (she was eldest daughter to Clymenus) screamed with delight. Then they lifted the heifer's head from off the ground, and Pisistratus cut her throat. When she had done bleeding and was quite dead, they cut her up."

Why stone the ox, which only inflicts unnecessary suffering? If the ox is dangerous and must be put to death, why not just slit its throat?

I watched the Youtube video that kicked off this thread and how appropriate to do so on Easter Sunday. It should be considered that not enough time has passed to put the holy bibicular and other absurd archaic religious dogma books in the same bin as bloodletting and drilling holes in skulls to release demons. We simply wont live to see it, so be resolute to the fact.

It's my little theory that the violation of the separation of church and state in the USA busted wide the floodgates of legal lunatics that leverage their flavor of god to advance their ambitions resulting in the building and coddling of apartheid Israel and marching off to "inject freedom" American style in Iraq. (and now I'll be reminded that there IS no law in the USA separating church and state?)

I'll recommend Elaine Pagel's book, "The Origins of Satan" for anyone that wants to understand a Princeton University professor of theology version of how the bible came to be written and evolve..............

http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Satan-Elaine-...s/dp/0679401407

You know what I like about paganism? It seems SENSIBLE to worship or honor the elements of nature. The sun that warms us and feeds our plants, gravity that keeps us from floating off, the water to cleanse and hydrate our bodies and grow the trees and crops and house the fish. I like how these elements regard everyone equally, without ANY ONE PEOPLE being "chosen" above any other. Children can understand natures aspects and lessons perfectly well, unlike the silly, muddled, translated to death holy bibicular.

Please tell all your friends about William Tyndale. Who is he? Billy Tyndale was the first individual to translate the bible from its original Hebrew and Greek versions into English. Want to know what happened to Mr. T for all his trouble?

(he was put to death)

Check it out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

I will enjoy the issue I will make in court (if that day will come) when I insist to the judge that to swear on the bible before I testify would be a ridiculous exercise for me, given my conviction that the book is at best, an abject myth.

Happy Vernal Equinox to you all!!

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The paucity of seriousness in the beginning influenced me to skip the rest since it painted you as an utterly unserious commentator.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

:huh:

:lol::lol::lol:

Sometimes you get the response you deserve.

B)

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That's not the point. The question is, why would God tell people to stone an ox?

Here is an account of how people killed animals in those days, when they weren't trying to make a sport of it. It's from Homer's Odyssey, written in the eighth century B.C.E.

"When they had done praying and sprinkling the barley meal Thrasymedes dealt his blow, and brought the heifer down with a stroke that cut through the tendons at the base of her neck, whereon the daughters and daughters-in-law of Nestor, and his venerable wife Eurydice (she was eldest daughter to Clymenus) screamed with delight. Then they lifted the heifer's head from off the ground, and Pisistratus cut her throat. When she had done bleeding and was quite dead, they cut her up."

Why stone the ox, which only inflicts unnecessary suffering? If the ox is dangerous and must be put to death, why not just slit its throat?

This is a serious question. God wouldn't command something unless it was important, would he?

So why did he command people to stone goring oxen?

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This is a serious question. God wouldn't command something unless it was important, would he?

So why did he command people to stone goring oxen?

God changed his mind?

God matured?

God learned from his mistakes?

God didn't see it coming?

No good answers, are there.

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I know some people say this is just a lot of nitpicking, but how can I afford to be wrong about what God has commanded me to do?

Please, God, tell me what I'm supposed to do in a way that I can understand!

Kill the oxen and then get stoned....and that's my final answer.

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I watched the Youtube video that kicked off this thread and how appropriate to do so on Easter Sunday. It should be considered that not enough time has passed to put the holy bibicular and other absurd archaic religious dogma books in the same bin as bloodletting and drilling holes in skulls to release demons. We simply wont live to see it, so be resolute to the fact.

It's my little theory that the violation of the separation of church and state in the USA busted wide the floodgates of legal lunatics that leverage their flavor of god to advance their ambitions resulting in the building and coddling of apartheid Israel and marching off to "inject freedom" American style in Iraq. (and now I'll be reminded that there IS no law in the USA separating church and state?)

I'll recommend Elaine Pagel's book, "The Origins of Satan" for anyone that wants to understand a Princeton University professor of theology version of how the bible came to be written and evolve..............

http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Satan-Elaine-...s/dp/0679401407

You know what I like about paganism? It seems SENSIBLE to worship or honor the elements of nature. The sun that warms us and feeds our plants, gravity that keeps us from floating off, the water to cleanse and hydrate our bodies and grow the trees and crops and house the fish. I like how these elements regard everyone equally, without ANY ONE PEOPLE being "chosen" above any other. Children can understand natures aspects and lessons perfectly well, unlike the silly, muddled, translated to death holy bibicular.

Please tell all your friends about William Tyndale. Who is he? Billy Tyndale was the first individual to translate the bible from its original Hebrew and Greek versions into English. Want to know what happened to Mr. T for all his trouble?

(he was put to death)

Check it out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

I will enjoy the issue I will make in court (if that day will come) when I insist to the judge that to swear on the bible before I testify would be a ridiculous exercise for me, given my conviction that the book is at best, an abject myth.

Happy Vernal Equinox to you all!!

"An it harm none, do what thou will"

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I watched the Youtube video that kicked off this thread and how appropriate to do so on Easter Sunday. It should be considered that not enough time has passed to put the holy bibicular and other absurd archaic religious dogma books in the same bin as bloodletting and drilling holes in skulls to release demons. We simply wont live to see it, so be resolute to the fact.

It's my little theory that the violation of the separation of church and state in the USA busted wide the floodgates of legal lunatics that leverage their flavor of god to advance their ambitions resulting in the building and coddling of apartheid Israel and marching off to "inject freedom" American style in Iraq. (and now I'll be reminded that there IS no law in the USA separating church and state?)

I'll stick with pointing out that the American style of democracy does not make use of the parliamentarian system.

I'll recommend Elaine Pagel's book, "The Origins of Satan" for anyone that wants to understand a Princeton University professor of theology version of how the bible came to be written and evolve..............

http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Satan-Elaine-...s/dp/0679401407

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=43736

You know what I like about paganism? It seems SENSIBLE to worship or honor the elements of nature. The sun that warms us and feeds our plants, gravity that keeps us from floating off, the water to cleanse and hydrate our bodies and grow the trees and crops and house the fish. I like how these elements regard everyone equally, without ANY ONE PEOPLE being "chosen" above any other. Children can understand natures aspects and lessons perfectly well, unlike the silly, muddled, translated to death holy bibicular.

Please tell all your friends about William Tyndale. Who is he? Billy Tyndale was the first individual to translate the bible from its original Hebrew and Greek versions into English. Want to know what happened to Mr. T for all his trouble?

(he was put to death)

Check it out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

How would you have punished Tyndale for translating the Bible?

I will enjoy the issue I will make in court (if that day will come) when I insist to the judge that to swear on the bible before I testify would be a ridiculous exercise for me, given my conviction that the book is at best, an abject myth.

They'll just tell you to grow up and affirm that you're telling the truth just like atheists have been doing for years instead of trying to create a spectacle of yourself in the court.

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/80781

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So are you leading a Bible Study or are you asking to have your ignorance addressed?

I'm asking to have my ignorance addressed.

Why did God command people to stone oxes?

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Guest Keith
Isn't that what the public library does? Stock certain books and omit the rest?

I guess that would apply if people worshiped thier public library and commited horrible atrocities in it's name.

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Isn't that what the public library does? Stock certain books and omit the rest?

Yes, and some do it better than others. Some libraries stock excellent books, others stock trash. Some probably stock only those books that agree with the head librarian's politics or religious beliefs. Those are not good libraries.

When the writings were chosen for inclusion in the Bible, the group of men who chose them did so based on what they had chosen to believe. Selection had little to do with the historical merit or accuracy of the writings. So that's another reason why the Bible is not reliable. Selection was based on unsound criteria. How do we know? We have some of the writings from the people who compiled it. Enough to know that their criteria for selection were political, theological and ideological, not factual.

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Guest Keith
I'll stick with pointing out that the American style of democracy does not make use of the parliamentarian system.

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=43736

How would you have punished Tyndale for translating the Bible?

They'll just tell you to grow up and affirm that you're telling the truth just like atheists have been doing for years instead of trying to create a spectacle of yourself in the court.

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/80781

Are you suggesting that thier should be punishment for translating the bible?

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