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Have you seen the news showing the demonstrations against immigration reform. Keep in Mind that the Dems look at these people as votes! Legal or not. Both Parties are weak on this issue and they are not listening to the people at all. As chuck Shummer likes to say, "they are out of touch with the main stream" All those people demonstrating don't want to become Americans at all, they just want be Mexicans living in the U.S.A. cashing in on our benefits that they never paid into.

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Guest Studies
Have you seen the news showing the demonstrations against immigration reform. Keep in Mind that the Dems look at these people as votes! Legal or not. Both Parties are weak on this issue and they are not listening to the people at all. As chuck Shummer likes to say, "they are out of touch with the main stream" All those people demonstrating don't want to become Americans at all, they just want be Mexicans living in the U.S.A. cashing in on our benefits that they never paid into.

Yes and no..those that work under the table Dont pay anything into the system, the ones who DO work on the books, even with a faked SSI card, DO pay the usual taxes, and in most cases, more than their share since they cant file for any refunds. (BEfore the flames start I am NOT Excusing Illegals). That said, there needs to be a number of changes, some of them sweeeping just for the security aspect. The Borders are too Porus, both the Southern border AND the Northern, The propsed fence or wall on the Mexican Border is needed. There is also a good argument to implement a "Guest Worker program, or something equivalent. Lets be realistic there isnt ANYONE on this continent today who isnt the descendant of Immigrants (Including "Native" Americans, who's geaneology goes back to Asia through Migration over the Land-bridge between this Continent and Siberia). There shouldnt be a bar to coming here, as long as there is proper documentation, This is also for THEIR benefit, as it would reduce the amount of frank abuse Illegals face sometimes due to their being outside the system.

There isnt any Rubber-stamp, simple Solution the problem is complex, and it has been going on for decades, changes arent going to happen overnight. The entire problem needs to be looked at and solutions to each aspect have to be implemented. Someone recently used the analogy of a Stool.. if you fix only one leg of the stool, it's going to fall over, it all has to be fixed at once if the entire structure isnt to collapse.

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Have you seen the news showing the demonstrations against immigration reform. Keep in Mind that the Dems look at these people as votes! Legal or not. Both Parties are weak on this issue and they are not listening to the people at all. As chuck Shummer likes to say, "they are out of touch with the main stream" All those people demonstrating don't want to become Americans at all, they just want be Mexicans living in the U.S.A. cashing in on our benefits that they never paid into.

The Reps look at them as cheap labor to pick their crops and do any other tasks that your beloved Rep leader hasn't already had sent overseas

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Given the bloody mess this administration's created in Iraq and its inept handling of the Katrina disaster why would anyone have any faith that they can successfully apply any solutions to the immigration problem?

A wall along 1/3 of the Mexico/US border is a joke, who planned this?, the designer of the Maginot Line?

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Guest Radagast
Yes and no..those that work under the table Dont pay anything into the system, the ones who DO work on the books, even with a faked SSI card, DO pay the usual taxes, and in most cases, more than their share since they cant file for any refunds.  (BEfore the flames start I am NOT Excusing Illegals).  That said, there needs to be a number of changes, some of them sweeeping just for the security aspect.  The Borders are too Porus, both the Southern border AND the Northern,  The propsed fence or wall on the Mexican Border is needed.  There is also a good argument to implement a "Guest Worker program, or something equivalent.  Lets be realistic there isnt ANYONE on this continent today who isnt the descendant of Immigrants (Including "Native" Americans, who's geaneology goes back to Asia through Migration over the Land-bridge between this Continent and Siberia).  There shouldnt be a bar to coming here, as long as there is proper documentation, This is also for THEIR benefit, as it would reduce the amount of frank abuse Illegals face sometimes due to their being outside the system.

There isnt any Rubber-stamp, simple Solution the problem is complex, and it has been going on for decades, changes arent going to happen overnight.  The entire problem needs to be looked at and solutions to each aspect have to be implemented.  Someone recently used the analogy of a Stool.. if you fix only one leg of the stool, it's going to fall over, it all has to be fixed at once if the entire structure isnt to collapse.

Studies,

You are very right. This is a complex situation. And no... I'm not about to beat up on George W. Bush here. Frankly, this is an issue that divides traditional Republicans more than Democrats and I'm a bit surprised that old W decided to wade into it.

We have on the one side cheap labor. Like it or not, we have all benefited from it in the cost of much of we buy. This isn't new either, every immigrant group going back to the 1800's has provided cheap labor. Cheap labor has also provided a win fall for some large employers (ie. WalMart and others) who have contributed heavily to Bush and the Republicans. So why are they niping the hand that feeds them?

We have on the other side the immigrant skilled labor that is to some extent under cutting skilled labor prices here all over the US. Skilled labor here are mostly established private contractors who also mostly vote Republican.

The problem is that you can't have it both ways. At best, this puts Republicans between the rock and hard place.

I don't know how practical a fence between the USA and Mexico would be in keeping people out. However, every election that was held in the last few years in Latin America, with the exception of Columbia, has gone to a left leaning government not friendly to the US. Mexico has an election in July and that fence will almost surely tip the balance to the left there also. I just don't think its a very good idea.

While I don't think Bush's idea of an extended work permit program is very practical either, he and others on both sides are at least trying to find a middle ground.

This is an issue where digging your heels in on either side will lead to keeping everything the same ... Does anybody want that?

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Guest Studies
Studies,

I don't know how practical a fence between the USA and Mexico would be in keeping people out. However, every election that was held in the last few years in Latin America, with the exception of Columbia, has gone to a left leaning government not friendly to the US. Mexico has an election in July and that fence will almost surely tip the balance to the left there also. I just don't think its a very good idea.

While I don't think Bush's idea of an extended work permit program is very practical either, he and others on both sides are at least trying to find a middle ground.

To me THIS is allthe MORE reason for the fence as well as better Border Enforcement. With the Mexican Militray incursions that have been going on over the last few years, including the active engagement of Border Patrol Officers with heavy machinegun fire. It looks like the old "Souty of the Border Corruption" is up and running with the Mex Military assisting the coyotes. Dont think because im for some version of the Guest Worker program i dont think the border needs to be shut hard.

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Guest Radagast
To me THIS is allthe MORE reason for the fence as well as better Border Enforcement.  With the Mexican Militray incursions that have been going on over the last few years, including the active engagement of Border Patrol Officers with heavy machinegun fire.  It looks like the old "Souty of the Border Corruption" is up and running with the Mex Military assisting the coyotes.  Dont think because im for some version of the Guest Worker program i dont think the border needs to be shut hard.

I don't disagree with the idea of protecting ourselves against people using a poorly guarded border to do harm to the United States. I just don't think a fence would be very effective. Although, I guess its better than nothing.

As far as immigration in general, it seems to me that there is just as much anger about Asians and others who are in some cases professionals and coming through the front door as there is against Mexicans and others coming through the back door. This is a pettern that has repeated itself over and over again in our histiory. Ethnics that have established citizenship always resent the new ethnic group trying to come in. Its normal to feel that way but is it normal to create laws to prevent it?

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I don't disagree with the idea of protecting ourselves against people using a poorly guarded border to do harm to the United States. I just don't think a fence would be very effective. Although, I guess its better than nothing. 

As far as immigration in general, it seems to me that there is just as much anger about Asians and others who are in some cases professionals and coming through the front door as there is against Mexicans and others coming through the back door. This is a pettern that has repeated itself over and over again in our histiory. Ethnics that have established citizenship always resent the new ethnic group trying to come in. Its normal to feel that way but is it normal to create laws to prevent it?

:blink: 1st i think your right! but we all live on north america!!! why don't we just make all of it USA! then we can realy rip it up! "exploit all resources" and TAX ALL TO DEATH! yah know that big lump of copper just off shore how much can we get for it in scrap!!! :huh:
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:blink: 1st i think your right! but we all live on north america!!! why don't we just make all of it USA! then we can realy rip it up! "exploit all resources" and TAX ALL TO DEATH! yah know that big lump of copper just off shore how much can we get for it in scrap!!! :huh:

Is this a monkey?

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I don't disagree with the idea of protecting ourselves against people using a poorly guarded border to do harm to the United States. I just don't think a fence would be very effective. Although, I guess its better than nothing. 

As far as immigration in general, it seems to me that there is just as much anger about Asians and others who are in some cases professionals and coming through the front door as there is against Mexicans and others coming through the back door. This is a pettern that has repeated itself over and over again in our histiory. Ethnics that have established citizenship always resent the new ethnic group trying to come in. Its normal to feel that way but is it normal to create laws to prevent it?

No more laws ! just enforce the ones we have. People that come here by the law are no problem. The constructiion unions should be screaming about this invasion.

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Guest Patriot
Given the bloody mess this administration's created in Iraq and its inept handling of the Katrina disaster why would anyone have any faith that they can successfully apply any solutions to the immigration problem?

A wall along 1/3 of the Mexico/US border is a joke, who planned this?, the designer of the Maginot Line?

Put the Kool-aid down, your brain is fried.

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Put the Kool-aid down, your brain is fried.

Well.............I still have enough thought process left to kmow that Bush can't be trusted to plan or implement any complex operation. You can call yourself "patriot" all you want, blind allegiance to he who would lead you down the the wrong path has nothing to do with patriotism.

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Put the Kool-aid down, your brain is fried.

We don't need the fence, we need our TROOPS brought back here to protect our our own damn country... Who the hell cares what happens in other countries, look whats happening to our country!!!!!!!!!!!! If the administration put there brains together instead of sitting on them, they would see that having our military patrolling and protecting our borders maybe we wouldn't have the problems with so many illegals getting in. But we can't do that cause all our military are in every other country protecting them, when they should be here protecting us.

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Guest Studies and Observations
We don't need the fence, we need our TROOPS brought back here to protect our our own damn country... Who the hell cares what happens in other countries, look whats happening to our country!!!!!!!!!!!!  If the administration put there brains together instead of sitting on them, they would see that having our military patrolling and protecting our borders maybe we wouldn't have the problems with so many illegals getting in.  But we can't do that cause all our military are in every other country protecting them, when they should be here protecting us.

Obviously you've never heard of the Posse Comitatus Act...you Cannot use troops for regular Border Enfocement, because that is a Law Enforcement problem by Legislation. It is a violation of the Constitution to use Federal troops for Domestic LE purposes. Nice try Libbot, but no joy.

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Obviously you've never heard of the Posse Comitatus Act...you Cannot use troops for regular Border Enfocement, because that is a Law Enforcement problem by Legislation.  It is a violation of the Constitution to use Federal troops for Domestic LE purposes.  Nice try Libbot, but no joy.

There's also a law requiring a warrant to conduct domestic eavesdropping but haven't you heard? This administration considers itself above the law.

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There's also a law requiring a warrant to conduct domestic eavesdropping but haven't you heard?  This administration considers itself above the law.

Hey what the hell! just leave the borders open and forget about people trying to kill us and our children. It'll just go away. you people make to much fuss over things. We're fine really, relax. just remember this, Dems and Repubs are both full of SHIT!

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To be precise it was a panel of FORMER judges who also said: "

they could not speak specifically to the NSA listening program without being briefed on it," Hardly definitive as some legal scholars have stated the opinion that Bush's actions were illegal.

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At the risk of being drummed out of town, I really believe there should be a freeze on ALL immigration for a period of several years. There are several reasons, both economic and social.

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Guest Ba** Buster
I'd rather go hunting with Cheney than driving with Kennedy.  Enough said.

Rather take my chances driving with Kennedy than "surfing" in the Gulf with Bush, Cheney and the rest of the GOP. Enough said? Get some new material.

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