Citizenship in perspective

[Guest Guest]

I agree that private businesses should be allowed to decide for themselves, but Stanhope's line is retarded. Addiction is not correlated with health risk.

Keith doesn't get the fact that the "private businesses" he talks about serve the public.

[Guest Guest]

The point was that if someone ingested enough second hand smoke for it to actually cause damage then it's entirley plausible that they would have become addicted to it just like smokers

The point is that there are people that have immediate health reactions to a smokers second hand smoke.

[Guest Keith]

Keith doesn't get the fact that the "private businesses" he talks about serve the public.

No, I do get it. I also understand that if a business allows smoking and you don't like smoke, do go in there. It is not a public or government building and no one is forcing anyone to go there. If you don't like a strip club. Don't go. Yes, it is that simple.

[Guest Guest]

Yaeh right, now the excuses start.

The excuses started from Paszkiewicz's apologists the moment this story broke, so shut your ignorant mouth.

[Guest Guest]

No, I do get it. I also understand that if a business allows smoking and you don't like smoke, do go in there. It is not a public or government building and no one is forcing anyone to go there. If you don't like a strip club. Don't go. Yes, it is that simple.

What you don't get Keith is that it is a public place because they serve the general public. These businesses are not private clubs. And what you really don't get is the fact that your own rude behavior is what ruined it for you.

[Guest Guest]

So of course you babble yet again, not addressing a single point I made. Of course he has heard what I have to say, just like your kids hear the religions you've taught them. When you do it, it's OK. When I do it, it's not. Not to mention all the political myths you've taught them as your head bobbed every time Limbaugh said anything.

Matthew will be attending the New School in Manhattan, one of the most liberal universities in the USA. It was founded by Jewish intellectuals who were strongly influenced by Freud and Marx, and its president is a former Senator from Nebraska. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kerrey) The New School’s graduate program was founded in 1933 and called the University in Exile. It was “an emergency rescue program for threatened scholars in Europe.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_School)

If you read the section on the school's founding, you will see this, footnote numbers omitted, emphasis added: "The school was conceived and founded during a period of fevered nationalism, deep suspicion of foreigners, and increased censorship and suppression during and after the involvement of the United States in World War I.

"In October 1917, after Columbia University passed a resolution that imposed a loyalty oath to the United States Government upon the entire faculty and student body, the board of trustees fired Professor of Psychology and Head of the Department James McKeen Cattell for having sent a petition to three US congressmen, asking them not to support legislation for military conscription. Other firings included Henry Wadsworth Longfellow Dana (grandson of the poet) and Leon Fraser. Charles Beard, Professor of Political Science, resigned his professorship at Columbia in protest. James Harvey Robinson, an associate of Beard's at Columbia and Professor of History, commented on the resignation: 'It is not that any of us are pro-German or disloyal. It is simply that we fear that a condition of repression may arise in this country similar to that which we laughed at in Germany.' Robinson would resign in 1919 to join the faculty at the New School."

What you don't seem to understand is that when dissent is suppressed, the nation suppressing it suffers. Fortunately, other nations sometimes reap the benefit. Marlon Brando said this of his year as a student at the New School: "I attended The New School for Social Research for only a year, but what a year it was. The school and New York itself had become a sanctuary for hundreds of extraordinary European Jews who had fled Germany and other countries before and during World War II, and they were enriching the city's intellectual life with an intensity that has probably never been equaled anywhere during a comparable period of time."

So you see, The New School has a proud and honorable tradition defending intellectual freedom, and in particular the very point Matthew is championing in sitting out the Pledge. (Not that you will understand that.) Matthew will be one of the more conservative students there. So I wouldn't hold my breath about his taking a turn to your way of thinking if I were you - but that's up to you.

You're right about one thing. My diatribes are not the norm. He knows it, and so do I. That's all the more reason they are important. They are the right of every citizen. That is what you do not seem to understand, but more telling, you never address or even acknowledge the point. You never address a single point. How about that one.

Put it another way. Flag salutes have their place. But when they become so rote and so commonplace that people begin to demand them, they begin to interfere with freedom, both personal and intellectual. This is no apples and oranges comparison. It is a choice our country must make: Do we value the flag more, or the freedom it is supposed to stand for; rote recitation of a pledge, or independent and critical thought? I predict you won't address that either, or even think about it. You don't think; that's the problem. But whether you think about it or not, that is the choice our country faces, and the reason for Matthew's action.

Have you, Paul LaClair ever taken action, such as burn the US flag or demoralize it?

Because someone does not think the same way that you do does not mean that he or she does not think. This is one of your greatest prejudices. Always assuming the worst about people.

As far as your diatribes, there is no reason for me acknowledging yours. I live my life the best I can every day. Unlike you, I look for the good in people instead of trying to be confrontational. That is something that you, Mr. Paul LaClair, will never understand.

[Guest Young Kearnian]

Have you, Paul LaClair ever taken action, such as burn the US flag or demoralize it?

Because someone does not think the same way that you do does not mean that he or she does not think.

Which of course is not what he's saying. There is a lot more than "someone does not think the same way" going on in the people that don't think. They let their knees react for them, and don't think things through before lashing out at someone who's different. And those people aren't thinking, so...

This is one of your greatest prejudices. Always assuming the worst about people.

Are you freaking serious? How could you say that about Paul? This is a man who, despite the clear dishonesty and smugness and callousness of that teacher, Paul never even hinted at wanting him to be fired. Paul SERIOUSLY gave that teacher one HELL of a benefit of the doubt, probably undeserved, and now you're going to sit at your keyboard and say that Paul always assumes the worst about people? Get real!

As far as your diatribes, there is no reason for me acknowledging yours.

Why are you responding to a post of his on a forum, then? Don't you find it a little rude to go off on a guy, then proclaim there's no reason for you to acknowledge what he is expressing, as if your statements and opinions are so much more valid?

I live my life the best I can every day. Unlike you, I look for the good in people instead of trying to be confrontational. That is something that you, Mr. Paul LaClair, will never understand.

What you don't understand is that Paul has never been anything but what you claim he "will never understand". Why are you lying like this?

[Guest Guest]

Have you, Paul LaClair ever taken action, such as burn the US flag or demoralize it?

Because someone does not think the same way that you do does not mean that he or she does not think. This is one of your greatest prejudices. Always assuming the worst about people.

As far as your diatribes, there is no reason for me acknowledging yours. I live my life the best I can every day. Unlike you, I look for the good in people instead of trying to be confrontational. That is something that you, Mr. Paul LaClair, will never understand.

Have you ever murdered someone? When did you stop beating your wife? If you think those kinds of questions are fair, then have the guts to post your name.

He wasn't assuming anything. He was responding to this:

QUOTE (2smart4u @ May 31 2008, 09:50 PM)

Reading Paul's post it's easy to see why junior acts the way he does. Junior has been hearing this loony leftist propaganda for so long he doesn't

know what's acceptable behavior and what's not. Paul has no respect for America, our military, or the symbol of our freedom; our flag. He's

obviously indoctrinated his offspring to show the same lack of respect. Junior's only hope is to get out of Paul's house; go away to college and don't

come back. He'll see that daddy's leftist diatribes are not the norm and it may straighten him out. Only God knows.

Considering what it is and who it was coming from, his response was entirely appropriate, even mild.

And you're not looking for the good. If you were, you would recognize that sometimes there are reasons for people to be angry. He has several.

[Guest Guest]

1. Have you, Paul LaClair ever taken action, such as burn the US flag or demoralize it?

2. Because someone does not think the same way that you do does not mean that he or she does not think. 3. This is one of your greatest prejudices. Always assuming the worst about people.

4. As far as your diatribes, there is no reason for me acknowledging yours. I live my life the best I can every day. 5. Unlike you, I look for the good in people instead of trying to be confrontational. That is something that you, Mr. Paul LaClair, will never understand.

1. That's a cheap shot, completely uncalled for. When you ask a question like that, you're already telling us that you don't know how to discuss an issue intelligently. I hope Paul doesn't dignify it with a response.

2. He seems to know that. He had had many respectful discussions with people who don't agree with him. He was responding to "2smart4u," who never writes anything intelligent. When Paul says "2smart4u" doesn't think, he's right.

3. I disagree. Paul always invites a discussion and it's always on the merits. In the post you're criticizing, he made many excellent points. He predicted that "2smart4u" wouldn't answer any of them - look for yourself, he was right. Again.

When people act stupid, Paul isn't afraid to call them on it. That's not assuming the worst. It's responding to the situation and being honest.

4. Paul seems to understand the importance of real discussion. He takes positions that he knows are unpopular. Usually his reasons are good (even when I don't agree with him!). You may not like to admit it, but without people like him and his son, we wouldn't live in a free country. Weigh that against the flag and I'll take freedom. Paul is right. Most people don't see it. That makes him all the more unpopular, but it also makes what he's doing all the more important and all the more right.

5. Look again. You may see yourself coming around the corner.

[Guest Guest]

Have you, Paul LaClair ever taken action, such as burn the US flag or demoralize it?

Demoralize: 1. erode morale of somebody: to erode or destroy the courage, confidence, or hope of a person or group

2. cause confusion in something: to throw something into disorder or chaos

3. ruin somebody morally: to corrupt somebody morally

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

How do you "demoralize" a flag?

[Guest Keith]

What you don't get Keith is that it is a public place because they serve the general public. These businesses are not private clubs. And what you really don't get is the fact that your own rude behavior is what ruined it for you.

My rude behavior? Maybe your right and we should turn them all into private clubs. Say goodbye to America folks.