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Gas Prices vs. Supply


Stixx3969
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It's interesting to me that as gas prices skyrocket, it's all blamed on supply vs. demand. Seems like a good argument,right? All the while big oil posts obscene profits while still being subsidized by the govt. (i.e. the taxpayer) The one glaring difference I see from the current situation and that of the Arab oil embargo of the early seventies is this: I have yet to see a single gas station that is out of gas. Not one, at least here in Missouri. During the oil embargo when there truly was a shortage, stations ran out of gas and those that had it rationed it. Has anyone here seen any of that? Sure makes me wonder. Keep in mind as the prices in Europe skyrocketed most of that was from increased taxes to steer the country towards more fuel efficient autos and it worked. Here in the good ol' USA it seems to be nothing but pure profit for big oil while you and I are literally held up at the pump.

All the while our administration's silence is deafening. Seems to me like big oil is gonna get what they can while they still have friends in high places.

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It's interesting to me that as gas prices skyrocket, it's all blamed on supply vs. demand. Seems like a good argument,right?

Yes, it does.

All the while big oil posts obscene profits while still being subsidized by the govt. (i.e. the taxpayer)

Actually, oil companies are just a bit above average in terms of their profit margins (during these, their best of times--ordinarily it's hard to make a profit in big oil--check out the 1990s when the price per barrel stayed fairly consistent over a long period of time). If you consider most profit margins obscene, then I suppose that you're being consistent. And of course, if you're a communist then you can claim that all profit is obscene.

Have a look.

Bank of America earned more profit than Chevron despite a substantially lower gross.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/for...panies/profits/

The one glaring difference I see from the current situation and that of the Arab oil embargo of the early seventies is this: I have yet to see a single gas station that is out of gas. Not one, at least here in Missouri.

You don't notice that there's no embargo at the moment?

That's the first difference I'd look at, and it's rather glaring.

During the oil embargo when there truly was a shortage, stations ran out of gas and those that had it rationed it. Has anyone here seen any of that? Sure makes me wonder.

Thankfully, I'm here to help you educate yourself. Click on some of the links and read. Also learn the difference between embargo and no embargo and you'll be well on your way.

Keep in mind as the prices in Europe skyrocketed most of that was from increased taxes to steer the country towards more fuel efficient autos and it worked.

The European economy is still a shadow of ours--but who bothers keeping track?

You should also note that Europe's price for gas hasn't fallen much. They keep right on adding oodles to the price.

European Gasoline Prices Near All-Time High

22 May 2007

by Rafael Seidl

Germany’s automobile association ADAC reports that this past weekend, drivers in that country faced gasoline prices of €1.41 per liter (US$7.10 per gallon). This is just €0.03 below the historic high reached after hurricane Katrina.

The recent rise in the price of oil does not, in ADAC’s view, justify such increases in prices at the pump. A spokesperson suggested there was room for discounts, implying that refineries have increased their margins ahead of the summer driving season.

In addition, chronic refinery capacity shortfall in the US means that country has to import large quantities of finished gasoline and blending products on the spot market in Rotterdam, mostly supplied by European refineries. For reference, the EIA estimates that roughly 1 in every 8 gallons consumed in the US is imported. Refinery capacity is expanding in the US, but more slowly than demand is growing. Thus, the problem is actually getting worse each year.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/05/eu...asoli.html#more

Did you see it? $7.10 U.S. per gallon. If they're getting twice your gas mileage, then their cars are just as cost-efficient as yours to operate (at least in terms of gasoline costs).

Here in the good ol' USA it seems to be nothing but pure profit for big oil while you and I are literally held up at the pump.

All the while our administration's silence is deafening. Seems to me like big oil is gonna get what they can while they still have friends in high places.

You forgot to blame Bush by name.

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Guest Autonomous
It's interesting to me that as gas prices skyrocket, it's all blamed on supply vs. demand. Seems like a good argument,right? All the while big oil posts obscene profits while still being subsidized by the govt. (i.e. the taxpayer) The one glaring difference I see from the current situation and that of the Arab oil embargo of the early seventies is this: I have yet to see a single gas station that is out of gas. Not one, at least here in Missouri. During the oil embargo when there truly was a shortage, stations ran out of gas and those that had it rationed it. Has anyone here seen any of that? Sure makes me wonder. Keep in mind as the prices in Europe skyrocketed most of that was from increased taxes to steer the country towards more fuel efficient autos and it worked. Here in the good ol' USA it seems to be nothing but pure profit for big oil while you and I are literally held up at the pump.

All the while our administration's silence is deafening. Seems to me like big oil is gonna get what they can while they still have friends in high places.

As long as the people are willing to pay it, the oil companies are within their rights to charge whatever they want. That's capitalism for you-you have to take the inconvenient with the good. Price fixing opens up a whole new mess of problems.

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As long as the people are willing to pay it, the oil companies are within their rights to charge whatever they want.

Oil companies aren't likely to do that since the federal government does have the ability to institute anti-capitalist price controls--and overcharging beyond a certain point makes it more likely that Congress would act.

That's capitalism for you-you have to take the inconvenient with the good. Price fixing opens up a whole new mess of problems.

No, no, no. It's the clear path to a more equal society. :angry:

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Exactly............

If you don't like putting up extra at the pump try this ....

Buy an economically efficient, high gas mileage achieving automobile and drive it sparingly, if at all, and only beyond that for what is truly a necessity.

Not that well off to make a purchase today? Well, mass transit is a big help if it gets you near where you need to be. Sacrifice is in order here.

The problem is we don't like to sacrifice anything for nothing or nobody, nohow.

Inconvenience is not in our vocabulary. Excessive indulgence, that's for me bub!

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How old are you Bryan? Do you remember the embargo in the seventies? I do. My point was that if the supply shortage they keep feeding us that warrents these prices rising the way the have in a few short years were indeed true, someone would be running out of gas from time to time. I find it suspicious that while they they keep racking up prices because of supply, there still seems to be plenty to go around. I know of no one who has had any trouble getting gas. The only trouble they have is paying for it.

I find that very suspicious, don't you? You can spout facts and figures all day long but if you think for one minute that big oil doesn't manipulate those figures then you are naive.

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How old are you Bryan? Do you remember the embargo in the seventies? I do.

Good for you.

Do you remember the embargo of 2007? Didn't think so.

My point was that if the supply shortage they keep feeding us that warrents these prices rising the way the have in a few short years were indeed true, someone would be running out of gas from time to time.

Gasoline isn't in short supply. It is in high demand (China, India). If India and China were not experiencing economic booms featuring radically increased consumption of fossil fuels then our prices would probably still be like they were in the 1990s.

That said, refinery problems have led to a mild immediate supply problem that U.S. distributors have addressed by horning in on the European market. We end up with enough gas, but everyone pays more for it.

I find it suspicious that while they they keep racking up prices because of supply, there still seems to be plenty to go around.

It doesn't follow that a higher price needs to be justified by shortages that lead to gas stations running out of gas.

I know of no one who has had any trouble getting gas. The only trouble they have is paying for it.

Maybe they're not buying as much because of the higher price?

Market-based limit on demand. Nifty, eh?

I find that very suspicious, don't you?

No. I understand economics to some degree, and I understand the gas economy to some degree in addition.

You can spout facts and figures all day long but if you think for one minute that big oil doesn't manipulate those figures then you are naive.

Don't let the facts confuse you. Stick to your guns!

:angry:

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Oil companies aren't likely to do that since the federal government does have the ability to institute anti-capitalist price controls--and overcharging beyond a certain point makes it more likely that Congress would act.

No, no, no.  It's the clear path to a more equal society.  :)

I'd say they aren't likely to do that beyond a certain limit. Other than smacking them for price gouging there isn't a whole lot the government can do-and that would be difficult to prove.

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Ok, I guess you got me. I'll freely admit that it's because I don't trust our government or the corporations that run it.

You should think about moving to a country with lower gas prices.

China, Iraq, and Venezuela (12 cents a gallon!) are among your choices. And France, as I understand it.

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You should think about moving to a country with lower gas prices.

China, Iraq, and Venezuela (12 cents a gallon!) are among your choices.  And France, as I understand it.

No, how about we fix shit in this country! We need to get our own house in order before we start telling others how to run thiers.

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Oil companies aren't likely to do that since the federal government does have the ability to institute anti-capitalist price controls--and overcharging beyond a certain point makes it more likely that Congress would act.

I'd say they aren't likely to do that beyond a certain limit. Other than smacking them for price gouging there isn't a whole lot the government can do-and that would be difficult to prove.

Big difference between "point" and "limit"? B)

I'd say it looks like we're in substantial agreement.

Edited by Bryan
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I'd say they aren't likely to do that beyond a certain limit. Other than smacking them for price gouging there isn't a whole lot the government can do-and that would be difficult to prove.

Big difference between "point" and "limit"? B)

I'd say it looks like we're in substantial agreement.

Aside from religious issues I'm conservative. I'm pro-life, pro-death penalty, pro-Constitution, pro-smaller government, pro-lower taxes, pro-welfare reform (actual reform, not just cutting funds), I'm against foreign adventurism and support a balanced budget and limited government involvement in the lives of the citizenry-oops, I just remembered why I prefer Ron Paul to anyone likely to win the nomination. :)

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It's interesting to me that as gas prices skyrocket, it's all blamed on supply vs. demand. Seems like a good argument,right? All the while big oil posts obscene profits while still being subsidized by the govt. (i.e. the taxpayer) The one glaring difference I see from the current situation and that of the Arab oil embargo of the early seventies is this: I have yet to see a single gas station that is out of gas. Not one, at least here in Missouri. During the oil embargo when there truly was a shortage, stations ran out of gas and those that had it rationed it. Has anyone here seen any of that? Sure makes me wonder. Keep in mind as the prices in Europe skyrocketed most of that was from increased taxes to steer the country towards more fuel efficient autos and it worked. Here in the good ol' USA it seems to be nothing but pure profit for big oil while you and I are literally held up at the pump.

All the while our administration's silence is deafening. Seems to me like big oil is gonna get what they can while they still have friends in high places.

There is an excellent way to find out whether the oil companies are gouging consumers during the summer. If consumers had the political will to do it, they would boycott Mobil and Exxon, the two major producers, until they lowered their prices to pre-summer levels. Unlike a one-day boycott of all producers (which accomplishes nothing), this would force the two top producers to lower their prices as far as possible and still maintain a profit margin. This plan is practical for consumers because they can still buy their gas from other producers. With the prices lowered by the top producers, the other producers would have no choice but to follow suit.

This plan would require a leader trusted by the people to call the shots on the boycott. If the people really want to fight price gouging, this is how to do it. If government wants to give people that kind of leverage, the laws could ensure that the top producers aren't being fed by everyone else in the industry.

Having said that, I have mixed feelings about low gas prices. As a consumer I want to pay as little as possible for gas. However, more important than that is the long-term future of energy. We must get away from fossil fuels. It is creating an environmental disaster, and these resources are of finite supply anyway. We have no choice but to develop other technologies, and the sooner the better. We have already done a lot of damage by overusing fossil fuels.

One of the worst things we could have done politically was to elect two oil men to head the executive branch --- and yet we did. It was a colossal mistake, but an election is only a year and a half away, and people seem to be waking up to the fact that this is a real problem.

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Guest fed up with B.S.

If the feds and state governments are so concerned about the cost of gas, why don't they drop their taxes on it. That would make gas a lot less then it is now! But we know they won't do that will they? Both parties are to blame. When will they serve the people, when will they cut costs and stop spending?

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There is an excellent way to find out whether the oil companies are gouging consumers during the summer. If consumers had the political will to do it, they would boycott Mobil and Exxon, the two major producers, until they lowered their prices to pre-summer levels. Unlike a one-day boycott of all producers (which accomplishes nothing), this would force the two top producers to lower their prices as far as possible and still maintain a profit margin. This plan is practical for consumers because they can still buy their gas from other producers. With the prices lowered by the top producers, the other producers would have no choice but to follow suit.

Claim: Participating in a boycott of selected oil companies will lower gasoline prices.

Status: False.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp

This plan would require a leader trusted by the people to call the shots on the boycott. If the people really want to fight price gouging, this is how to do it. If government wants to give people that kind of leverage, the laws could ensure that the top producers aren't being fed by everyone else in the industry.

It would require more than that.

Having said that, I have mixed feelings about low gas prices. As a consumer I want to pay as little as possible for gas. However, more important than that is the long-term future of energy. We must get away from fossil fuels. It is creating an environmental disaster, and these resources are of finite supply anyway. We have no choice but to develop other technologies, and the sooner the better. We have already done a lot of damage by overusing fossil fuels.

One of the worst things we could have done politically was to elect two oil men to head the executive branch --- and yet we did. It was a colossal mistake, but an election is only a year and a half away, and people seem to be waking up to the fact that this is a real problem.

Uh ... yeah. We need to elect the party opposed to nuclear energy, opposed to wind power (in their backyard), and opposed to exploiting domestic oil and gas reserves, and opposed to reliance on foreign oil.

People are so smart if they do that.

Cutting back on our consumption of the most cost-efficient energy source (fossil fuels) primarily accomplishes one thing: It lowers the demand so that our economic competitors can use up the resource more cheaply (that was one of the key problems with the Kyoto Protocol, also, and that's why the Senate voted in advance not to support Kyoto 95-0 while Clinton was in office).

That's China, India, and others. We'll pay more for our energy requirements, so all of our industry will be done less efficiently than in other locations on top of potentially cheaper labor.

It's a recipe for economic disaster, and provides no incentive for some of the largest producers of greenhouse gases to reign things in.

http://environment.newscientist.com/articl...us-in-2007.html

Edited by Bryan
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If the feds and state governments are so concerned about the cost of gas, why don't they drop their taxes on it. That would make gas a lot less then it is now! But we know they won't do that will they? Both parties are to blame. When will they serve the people, when will they cut costs and stop spending?

I realize it's not NJ, but the Republicans in Ct are TRYING at least to drop the state's gas tax during the summer..which is being blocked by the Democrat leadership.

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