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Immigration:

What is your take on this issue that our law makers are having a hard time with. This is a very important issue that should be given our undivided attention.

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Immigration:

What is your take on this issue that our law makers are having a hard time with. This is a very important issue that should be given our undivided attention.

It's pointless... it's almost a word-for-word Copy of the 1986 Amnesty bill, which did absolutely ZERO good, manily because one entire section, the sanctions against Employers of Illegals was ignored. This will be no different.

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Immigration:

What is your take on this issue that our law makers are having a hard time with. This is a very important issue that should be given our undivided attention.

I agree with your opinion on this.

You started the thread, shouldn't you give us some ammo.

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Immigration:

What is your take on this issue that our law makers are having a hard time with. This is a very important issue that should be given our undivided attention.

I have two friends that I work with who immigrated to the US legally. One is from the UK and the other is from Syria. Both are great and I'm happy to have them here. They both went through an immense amount of shit an loopholes, but they did it legally and I applaud them.

Just coming over the border illegally is one thing, then they will find counterfeit documents and steal SS numbers. Do you want that here? Do you want to turn a blind eye? I don't

If your illegal, go home!

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Immigration:

What is your take on this issue that our law makers are having a hard time with. This is a very important issue that should be given our undivided attention.

Because they are afraid of the immigrants and what the new laws can do. Face facts, our politicians have no balls, and don't want to deal with this problem. All they care about is there hands in pocket,and what their take is on everything

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Because they are afraid of the immigrants and what the new laws can do. Face facts, our politicians have no balls, and don't want to deal with this problem. All they care about is there hands in pocket,and what their take is on everything

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It's not that they don't have the balls, as a matter of fact they have large ones. The majority of people don't want this bill passed and by god their going to do it. We are looking at the demise of social seurity and the medi care system. I would like to know where the hell is aarp now. That group should be screaming and activating it's membership because they will be hit the hardest. The United States will not exist as we know it in forty years. We will be paying taxes at a rate that will be beyond our comprehension. Their is much more to this bill then we can see,I must admit that upsets me. This Kennedy has got to go. All I can say is, don't listen to the regualr news channels because they just spit out pro bill propaganda. Check the blogs and web sites. That's where you'll get the facts. READ THE BILL!

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I have two friends that I work with who immigrated to the US legally. One is from the UK and the other is from Syria. Both are great and I'm happy to have them here. They both went through an immense amount of shit an loopholes, but they did it legally and I applaud them.

Just coming over the border illegally is one thing, then they will find counterfeit documents and steal SS numbers. Do you want that here? Do you want to turn a blind eye? I don't

If your illegal, go home!

This is what the American people want, legal immigration. People that want to be Americans. Willing to go through the process. We don't need a new bill, enforce the existing bill from 1986. We've spent enough money on Iraq not to mention young lives. Lets start spending some of that money on our southern border and make it secure.

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I agree with your opinion on this. 

You started the thread, shouldn't you give us some ammo.

What do need other then your opinion. Look into this issue and form your own ideas and opinions. Then express that opinion.

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I have two friends that I work with who immigrated to the US legally. One is from the UK and the other is from Syria. Both are great and I'm happy to have them here. They both went through an immense amount of shit an loopholes, but they did it legally and I applaud them.

Just coming over the border illegally is one thing, then they will find counterfeit documents and steal SS numbers. Do you want that here? Do you want to turn a blind eye? I don't

If your illegal, go home!

How liberal and Constitutional of you.

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Immigration:

What is your take on this issue that our law makers are having a hard time with. This is a very important issue that should be given our undivided attention.

I think it's a fairly simple situation, with a very complex (if there even is one) solution.

Okay, we've got a _lot_ of illegal immigrants in this country. Now, normally the easy answer will be "okay, so let's kick them all out, problem solved." That's great, except...

After allowing them to remain for so long, businesses and industries and stuff have come to rely on them, either because they will work for lower wages or because they'll work under worse conditions for the same wage, stuff like that. Paying them less or paying less to maintain working conditions of a certain quality helped make these businesses more profitable, and one could guess they don't want to give that up, but they could be 'forced' to indirectly, so that's not a huge deal (except that it will likely take some of the smaller businesses out of commission completely, although any business that needs to hire illegals to survive was probably not that strong in the first place).

Anyway, these guys are mostly at the bottom rung of several of this country's industries. If from one day to another we could magically blink out every illegal immigrant in the country, the economy would collapse, as there are now not nearly enough 'legals' in this country willing/able to fill all of those positions, which are the foundational ones for other stuff. So if we just indiscriminately kick them all out, we will be shooting ourselves in the foot.

So now, what to do? I don't know--doesn't seem like anyone else really does, either (so far I'm only really hearing "kick them all out" from one side and "let them all stay" from the other, and neither extreme is really flying with me). Possibly the best solution would be to kick them out, but in bursts, to maybe try and fill the void their absence creates little by little so that our industries and economy don't suffer...as much (with the dollar's value plummeting, that is sure as hell the last thing we need in this country). That's the best thing I can think of.

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  • 2 weeks later...

1) Secure the border

2) Allow immigrants as needed to fill jobs at fair U.S. market rates (that may be a very high number, and that's okay--but we should be the ones choosing who comes in).

3) consider a visiting worker program

4) Discuss amnesty and amnesty lite after the border is secured.

5) Prosecute businesses who hire illegals (may require some form of identification system other than what we've got now).

6) Amend the Constitution to remove the anchor-baby loophole.

Do #4 before #1 and you create a strong draw for illegal immigrants (get in on the amnesty program before it's too late).

#6 may be near-impossible to pull off in reality, but the failure to do it will probably mean that immigrants will sidestep our would-be immigration policies--especially under a visiting worker program (have a child while visiting and suddenly your kid is a U.S. citizen).

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1)  Secure the border

2)  Allow immigrants as needed to fill jobs at fair U.S. market rates (that may be a very high number, and that's okay--but we should be the ones choosing who comes in).

3)  consider a visiting worker program

4)  Discuss amnesty and amnesty lite after the border is secured.

5)  Prosecute businesses who hire illegals (may require some form of identification system other than what we've got now).

6)  Amend the Constitution to remove the anchor-baby loophole.

Do #4 before #1 and you create a strong draw for illegal immigrants (get in on the amnesty program before it's too late).

#6 may be near-impossible to pull off in reality, but the failure to do it will probably mean that immigrants will sidestep our would-be immigration policies--especially under a visiting worker program (have a child while visiting and suddenly your kid is a U.S. citizen).

If the law from the 1986 agreement had been inforced this problem would not be. Now they are saying their going to make more laws to prevent this situation from happening again. The laws were not inforced the first time they won't be this time. They should go back to the 86 law and inforce it. If you owed the IRS twenty cents you can bet they'd find you why can't we find these people? This bill can't pass it will kill our childrens future. I really don't care about how bad they have it, they should have a revolution in Mexico and change their goverment not ours. This whole bill is bull shit!

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businesses and industries and stuff have come to rely on them, either because

for the same wage, stuff like that.

the foundational ones for other stuff. .

as much (with the dollar's value plummeting, that is sure as hell the last thing we need in this country). That's the best thing I can think of.

That's a lot of stuff. I expect better from you than to use such a generic term.

And what's your thing with the declining dollar. Take advantage of it.

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That's a lot of stuff. I expect better from you than to use such a generic term.

It's not like I say "stuff" all by itself; at least I'm using it to extend an idea ("stuff like that") after I state the idea. *chuckles* I see no need to use a more verbose term if "stuff" gets the idea across well enough.

And what's your thing with the declining dollar. Take advantage of it.

I have no "thing" with it. What, are you going to assume I'm obsessed with it just because I happened to mention it twice on this forum (to the best of my memory)? Come on, now. :)

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If the law from the 1986 agreement had been inforced this problem would not be. Now they are saying their going to make more laws to prevent this situation from happening again. The laws were not inforced the first time they won't be this time.

Right. That's why border enforcement needs to be the highest priority for immigration reform.

Prosecuting employers who knowingly hire illegals should be next, but that issue ties into other aspects of enforcement because you have to do something with the illegals who are currently in the country. Putting them all in jail and/or shipping them all back to their native lands would cost more than its worth. And if they're not working they're either on the dole, relying on charity, or involved in crime. A plan for eventual naturalization--or at least some form of legal status--does make sense. I think it makes sense to make the requirements fairly steep. Illegals were willing to take the risk of breaking the law to get in. They should be willing to pay a steep price to stay--not least because they are literally lawbreakers.

They should go back to the 86 law and inforce it. If you owed the IRS twenty cents you can bet they'd find you why can't we find these people?

Partly because cities like Denver refuse to help, and partly because our justice system can't accomodate a million new inmates in one year in addition to what we've already got.

Guess who would pay for room and board for illegals once they're in the can? Guess who pays for their deportation, if that's what you're looking for?

This bill can't pass it will kill our childrens future.

What children? The main reason we have a job shortage creating enough jobs for a high influx of illegals is because couples in the United States are not having enough children.

That's probably the dirty little secret of immigration. We need immigrants to help pay for the entitlements the government has promised to our graying population. The problem is that the overabundance of immigrants ends up taxing the system it might otherwise save.

I really don't care about how bad they have it, they should have a revolution in Mexico and change their goverment not ours. This whole bill is bull shit!

I do care about Mexico. A prosperous neighbor on our southern border would provide a boon for the U.S. economy apart from cheap labor--it would serve as a market for more productive trade. The U.S. has plenty of goods and services that prosperous Mexicans could purchase.

Not to mention that Mexico would be nicer for Mexicans.

An economically depressed Mexico allows the possibility of a Chavez-like takeover--and we may have narrowly avoided that when Obrador lost the most recent Mexican election. A next-door neighbor intent on undermining the U.S. wouldn't be the ideal thing.

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Right.  That's why border enforcement needs to be the highest priority for immigration reform.

Prosecuting employers who knowingly hire illegals should be next, but that issue ties into other aspects of enforcement because you have to do something with the illegals who are currently in the country.  Putting them all in jail and/or shipping them all back to their native lands would cost more than its worth.  And if they're not working they're either on the dole, relying on charity, or involved in crime.  A plan for eventual naturalization--or at least some form of legal status--does make sense.  I think it makes sense to make the requirements fairly steep.  Illegals were willing to take the risk of breaking the law to get in.  They should be willing to pay a steep price to stay--not least because they are literally lawbreakers.

Partly because cities like Denver refuse to help, and partly because our justice system can't accomodate a million new inmates in one year in addition to what we've already got.

Guess who would pay for room and board for illegals once they're in the can?  Guess who pays for their deportation, if that's what you're looking for?

What children?  The main reason we have a job shortage creating enough jobs for a high influx of illegals is because couples in the United States are not having enough children.

That's probably the dirty little secret of immigration.  We need immigrants to help pay for the entitlements the government has promised to our graying population.  The problem is that the overabundance of immigrants ends up taxing the system it might otherwise save.

I do care about Mexico.  A prosperous neighbor on our southern border would provide a boon for the U.S. economy apart from cheap labor--it would serve as a market for more productive trade.  The U.S. has plenty of goods and services that prosperous Mexicans could purchase.

Not to mention that Mexico would be nicer for Mexicans.

An economically depressed Mexico allows the possibility of a Chavez-like takeover--and we may have narrowly avoided that when Obrador lost the most recent Mexican election.  A next-door neighbor intent on undermining the U.S. wouldn't be the ideal thing.

If the 86 law was not enforced, what makes this law different? Lindsy Graham said these laws from 86 are unenforceable, and that is because they were never enforced! We need legal immigrants not these fence jumpers. Bush and the dems are giving our country away. YOU DISECT IT ANY WAY YOU WANT BUT THAT 'S WHAT'S GOING DOWN.

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If the 86 law was not enforced, what makes this law different? Lindsy Graham said these laws from 86 are unenforceable, and that is because they were never enforced! We need legal immigrants not these fence jumpers. Bush and the dems are giving our country away. YOU DISECT IT ANY WAY YOU WANT BUT THAT 'S WHAT'S GOING DOWN.

The black minority should be very upset with this bill because they are getting hit very hard and it will with out a doubt lower the pay scale. This bill S**ks and there is more to this then we can see. Now Bush is having meetings and dems are calling the opposition racists. 80% of the population does not want this bill passed. But their going to shove it down our throats and tell us how wonderful they are. Keep calling these clowns and don't let up. This will destroy our nation and then where will we go? This country is'nt perfect, but that don't keep people from lineing up to get in legally.

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If the 86 law was not enforced, what makes this law different? Lindsy Graham said these laws from 86 are unenforceable, and that is because they were never enforced! We need legal immigrants not these fence jumpers. Bush and the dems are giving our country away. YOU DISECT IT ANY WAY YOU WANT BUT THAT 'S WHAT'S GOING DOWN.

Does anyone know why our president constantly bends over for the Mexican president. What is the hold that Mexico has on the united states? Wake up America. Vote independant Cut taxes and stop illegal immigration. Anybody can do what these blister brains are doing in washington. We would be much better off without them. Let the people vote on this issue. Then they would realize we don't want this bill passed.

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Does anyone know  why our president constantly bends over for the Mexican president.

He doesn't, but his business views happen to accord with Mexico's desire to keep hanging onto our economic coattails.

What is the hold that Mexico has on the united states?

They're one of our biggest trade partners, including one of our top sources of imported oil.

Wake up America. Vote independant Cut taxes and stop illegal immigration.

There is no independent option that offers a ghost of a chance to cut taxes and stop illegal immigration. The Republican Party is more conservative than Bush on immigration, but the traditional Libertarian position on immigration is an open borders policy. The "Reform Party" has no organization (as they proved during the last presidential election.

The bottom line is that you would need substantial numbers in Congress to control the outcome of immigration policy. If by "vote independent" you mean vote for the candidate who advocates a tougher line on immigration that will almost always be the Republican candidate.

Anybody can do what these blister brains are doing in washington. We would be much better off without them. Let the people vote on this issue. Then they would realize we don't want this bill passed.

Referendum isn't a good way to conduct policy generally.

On the other hand, expressing views in a loud voice tends to grab the attention of politicians interested in staying in office. I think they're getting the message to some degree.

This bill wouldn't be so bad except for the fact that it doesn't take border enforcement seriously.

That's not the only flaw with the bill, but it's the biggest.

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He doesn't, but his business views happen to accord with Mexico's desire to keep hanging onto our economic coattails.

They're one of our biggest trade partners, including one of our top sources of imported oil.

There is no independent option that offers a ghost of a chance to cut taxes and stop illegal immigration.  The Republican Party is more conservative than Bush on immigration, but the traditional Libertarian position on immigration is an open borders policy.  The "Reform Party" has no organization (as they proved during the last presidential election.

The bottom line is that you would need substantial numbers in Congress to control the outcome of immigration policy.  If by "vote independent" you mean vote for the candidate who advocates a tougher line on immigration that will almost always be the Republican candidate.

Referendum isn't a good way to conduct policy generally.

On the other hand, expressing views in a loud voice tends to grab the attention of politicians interested in staying in office.  I think they're getting the message to some degree.

This bill wouldn't be so bad except for the fact that it doesn't take border enforcement seriously.

That's not the only flaw with the bill, but it's the biggest.

No Bryan there is a lot wrong with this bill, one of them is Ted Kennedy, 65,86, and now this abortion of a bill. Here we are again. Kennedy wants to import a mind set. And that Bastard is hell bent on destroying this country. Build a fence and post our army reserves along the border and get them out of Iraq. There is nothing we can't do. People saying it's impossible are wrong. It has to stop now! no more false promises. Our leaders tell us lies, and we the people have been sold out to the Mexican lobbey. This is going to blow up I can feel it. The American people are pissed,all though it may to late? Time will tell.

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No Bryan there is a lot wrong with this bill,

I agree there is much wrong with the bill. But I would maintain that the failure to ensure border security is the key flaw.

one of them is Ted Kennedy, 65,86, and now this abortion of a bill. Here we are again. Kennedy wants to import a mind set. And that Bastard is hell bent on destroying this country.

Ted Kennedy is assuredly convinced that he is doing the right thing. Is it damaging to the country in terms of eroding sovereignty and diluting the dominant culture? Well, sure. On the other hand, legalizing illegals probably lends itself to a Democrat shift in voter demographics. Kennedy would have a tough time not loving that. Where does it all eventually lead in the mind of a Democrat? I don't know. Perhaps a USW where we all work cheerfully side-by-side while whistling or singing Disney's "Small World" tune.

Build a fence and post our army reserves along the border and get them out of Iraq.

Sorry, but extremist Islamic terrorism is a greater threat than Mexican immigration. The national guard was not designed as a border patrol unit; they primarily serve to augment the national armed services, and they are doing so appropriately in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I don't have a problem with augmenting border security with national guard units (especially using guardsmen from states sharing borders with other nations), but border security should be provided for without undue overlap with our standing army.

And it is wise to work with Mexico to try to reach an accord. So far, the Mexican government is playing a heads-we-win, tails-you-lose game with us (they are very serious about protecting their borders while they expect us to look the other way)

There is nothing we can't do. People saying it's impossible are wrong.

I agree with you that it could be done. But shipping out every illegal would be economically damaging. It would cost a bunch and leave us with a more acute labor shortage, possibly touching off spiraling inflation.

It has to stop now! no more false promises.

Good luck with that.

Our leaders tell us lies, and we the people have been sold out to the Mexican lobbey. This is going to blow up I can feel it. The American people are pissed,all though it may to late? Time will tell.

Congress' approval rating has been consistently lower than President Bush's over the past few years.

The issues of border security and illegal immigration may well play a key role in the coming elections.

Don't expect Ron Paul to be able to do anything about it, however, unless you put a bunch of Ron Pauls in the Congress at the same time.

Review Jesse Ventura's run as Minnesota governor to see the effects of an executive from an independent political party.

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