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The Defeatocrats blinked. They are now offering a bill without a surrender date. Never in the history of the world has a surrender date been proposed in any war, but our Defeatocrats thought it was a good idea. "Rudy For President" !!

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The Defeatocrats blinked.  They are now offering a bill without a surrender date. Never in the history of the world has a surrender date been proposed in any war, but our Defeatocrats thought it was a good idea. "Rudy For President"  !!

So.................you think it's a good thing prolonging this mismanaged debacle?

That's the new Shrub strategy, just be a pig-headed ideologue until he goes back to the ranch where his BS is more appropriate, just like Vietnam he's more than willing to let somebody else do the dirty work. What a sorry excuse for a leader.

And BTW, Rudy will never make it to the White House, it'll be too hard yo move with all those skeletons on his back.

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So BushWanker, I guess you enjoyed your man's dog and pony show at the USCGA today?

WHAT a load of crap! He whines about the danger of al Qaeda plots being cooked up in Iraq while conveniently neglecting the fact that the intel says al Qaeda wasn't operating in Iraq prior to Bush's ill-planned invasion.

HE creates a problem and the attempts to pat himself on the back for attempting some half-assed solution to the problem.

It's easy to see why he loves the ranch, he has a natural affinity for Bull S**t.

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The Defeatocrats blinked.  They are now offering a bill without a surrender date. Never in the history of the world has a surrender date been proposed in any war, but our Defeatocrats thought it was a good idea. "Rudy For President"  !!

You don't actually understand the term "phased redeployment" do you? We have built one of the largest militaries in the world in Iraq. Phased redeployment means we pull out a few guys and see what happens. If things get worse, we put them back in. If the Iraqis are capable of defending themselves, we pull more out. We aren't talking about a wholesale pullout like in Vietnam-we have been training Iraqis literally for years to do the job. You've fallen for the crap the media keeps feeding you about Iraq. There are places that are really bad, but these people are motivated to make their country work again.

Amazing how many experts on Iraq have never been there.

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Guest Autonomous
Is that why the Iraqi parliament was planning on taking a two month recess?

Because they're so motivated?

Same person you uoted-I'm talking about the people. The current government is incredibly weak. It is rather like the first try at an American government-at some point they'll probably need a new constitution to form a stronger centralized government. Especially since one part of the populace wants to kill the other.

Again-most of the experts I hear haven't been there.

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Guest BushBacker
So BushWanker, I guess you enjoyed your man's dog and pony show at the USCGA today?

WHAT a load of crap!  He whines about the danger of al Qaeda plots being cooked up in Iraq while conveniently neglecting the fact that the intel says al Qaeda wasn't operating in Iraq prior to Bush's ill-planned invasion.

HE creates a problem and the attempts to pat himself on the back for attempting some half-assed solution to the problem.

It's easy to see why he loves the ranch, he has a natural affinity for Bull S**t.

Yes, I did enjoy the President's speech at the USCGA, I hope you did also. I'm sorry to see that you still don't understand why we're in Iraq, you're hung up on the BS coming from the Kool-Aid bloggers. Try reality for a change, drop the bloggers and start watching Fox News.

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I like this suggestion I got from another forum for our brave war supporters.

If you are 42 or younger and you're physically fit, join the military and serve in Iraq. Do your part to help our troops.

If you're too old or disabled then send the US government your share of the $9,000 per taxpayer for the total cost of the Iraq war to date. Then your children and grandchildren will not have to pay this war burden plus interest.

If you don't want to do either, then stop whining and STFU.

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You don't actually understand the term "phased redeployment" do you? We have built one of the largest militaries in the world in Iraq. Phased redeployment means we pull out a few guys and see what happens. If things get worse, we put them back in. If the Iraqis are capable of defending themselves, we pull more out. We aren't talking about a wholesale pullout like in Vietnam-we have been training Iraqis literally for years to do the job. You've fallen for the crap the media keeps feeding you about Iraq. There are places that are really bad, but these people are motivated to make their country work again.

Amazing how many experts on Iraq have never been there.

I have a question, why is president Bush so eager to open our borders to thousands of illegals that will strane our health care and social security system set up for legal citizens. Yet, he says that we need to make Iraq sovereign with secuer borders? What about our borders? What's going on? This bill stinks and for Bush to be allied with Kennedy on this bill makes me think we'ev been had. WHILE OUR BOYS ARE KILLED AND CRIPPLED, HE GIVES THE COUNTRY AWAY. THE COUNTRY THEY ARE DYING FOR. Shame on all of our elected officals SHAME!

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You don't actually understand the term "phased redeployment" do you? We have built one of the largest militaries in the world in Iraq. Phased redeployment means we pull out a few guys and see what happens. If things get worse, we put them back in. If the Iraqis are capable of defending themselves, we pull more out. We aren't talking about a wholesale pullout like in Vietnam-we have been training Iraqis literally for years to do the job. You've fallen for the crap the media keeps feeding you about Iraq. There are places that are really bad, but these people are motivated to make their country work again.

Amazing how many experts on Iraq have never been there.

General Petraeus has been to Iraq, and he thought that that Democrat appropriations bill with a withdrawal timeline was a bad idea.

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Guest a proud american
General Petraeus has been to Iraq, and he thought that that Democrat appropriations bill with a withdrawal timeline was a bad idea.

Lets not forget that he also says that there is no military solution for ending the conflict so why are we sending more troops? And you would hope that he's been to Iraq, after all he's the commander. What's ironic is that after four years the bumbler in chief has finally found a general dum enough to take command. I guess the next commander will be from Exxon since they have the most to gain

And to all the key board commandos out there when are your kids going to go? How many of them have been there and how many of them are actually in the military? Don't worry, I think we already know the answer.

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General Petraeus has been to Iraq, and he thought that that Democrat appropriations bill with a withdrawal timeline was a bad idea.

I was there at the time too-I don't remember seeing him out on the streets. Every time I've been overseas I've noticed that a lot of foreigners know more about American politics than actual Americans do-what we do affects the world. Even the people who like us over there feel resentment at our presence. I come home to hear Faux news talking about how the Democrats are encouraging the terrorists, but what is really hurting us over there is the torture debate. I got an e-mail from a guy over there after the British sailors were released commenting on how the Iranians treated their captives better than we treat ours.

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They're motivated to get us out. Over half (144 or 275) of the Iraqi parliament voted a petition asking us to set a withdrawal timetable.

Haven't we already been over this?

There also was disagreement over terms of proposed timetable legislation. Kurdish lawmaker Mahmoud Othman told The Associated Press that he agreed to back the measure on the condition it include an accompanying timeline for the buildup of Iraqi forces, but this was not included in the draft, which he called a "deception."

Hassan al-Shimmari, a Shiite who leads the Fadhila party, also signed the petition and had similar concerns. "At the time being," he said, "we can all see that it's not possible for the American troops to leave, and that withdrawing right now would lead to a disaster in Iraq, because the Iraqi security forces are still very weak, and they are still controlled by their sectarian and factional loyalties."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...iraqsadr11.html

There should be no failure to note that the measure was championed by the faction in Parliament loyal to Moqtada al Sadr (30 members).

Chalk up another victory for anti-American forces in fooling gullible (mostly left-leaning) American voters.

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I like this suggestion I got from another forum for our brave war supporters.

If you are 42 or younger and you're physically fit, join the military and serve in Iraq. Do your part to help our troops.

If you're too old or disabled then send the US government your share of the $9,000 per taxpayer for the total cost of the Iraq war to date. Then your children and grandchildren will not have to pay this war burden plus interest.

If you don't want to do either, then stop whining and STFU.

The last I heard the US Constitution, despite the Shrub's best efforts, still represents the law of the land.

So maybe YOU should STFU!

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Yes, I did enjoy the President's speech at the USCGA, I hope you did also.  I'm sorry to see that you still don't understand why we're in Iraq, you're  hung up on the BS  coming from the Kool-Aid bloggers. Try reality for a change, drop the bloggers and start watching Fox News.

Why would any reasonable, intelligent person enjoy watching a bumbling, inarticulate, ideologue being put forth as their leader?

Your fascination with FAUX News goes a long way towards explaining your idiocy.

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General Petraeus has been to Iraq, and he thought that that Democrat appropriations bill with a withdrawal timeline was a bad idea.

GEEZ!!!!!!!!!

A career military man, trained to follow a chain of command, opposes what his boss opposes.

I'm SHOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!! SHOCKED I SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHO could've seen THAT coming?

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GEEZ!!!!!!!!!

A career military man, trained to follow a chain of command, opposes what his boss opposes.

I'm SHOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!! SHOCKED I SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHO could've seen THAT coming?

Exactly. So much for the importance of being in Iraq, since it will just be said that the people in Iraq were trained to follow the chain of command.

Unless, of course, you disagree with the boss, in which case the opinion can be taken seriously.

I don't suppose you see the vacuity of that approach to the argument?

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Guest 2smart4u
I was there at the time too-I don't remember seeing him out on the streets. Every time I've been overseas I've noticed that a lot of foreigners know more about American politics than actual Americans do-what we do affects the world. Even the people who like us over there feel resentment at our presence. I come home to hear Faux news talking about how the Democrats are encouraging the terrorists, but what is really hurting us over there is the torture debate. I got an e-mail from a guy over there after the British sailors were released commenting on how the Iranians treated their captives better than we treat ours.

This is a brain on Kool-Aid.

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I was there at the time too-I don't remember seeing him out on the streets.

How did Petraeus obtain the reputation for appearing in the streets of Iraq, then?

Moreover, Petraeus gained a reputation at MNSTC-I as an effective motivator of Iraqi troops, making many visits to frontline Iraqi units to perform inspections and boost morale, and during his January 2007 Senate testimony, he described both punitive measures he took against Iraqi units that did not live up to expectations and rewards he gave to those units that performed well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus

Since taking command of MNF-I on 10 February 2007, Petraeus has inspected U.S. and Iraqi units all over Iraq, visiting outposts not only in greater Baghdad, but also in Tikrit, Baquba, Ramadi, and as far west as al-Hit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus

Maybe you were absent that day.

Every time I've been overseas I've noticed that a lot of foreigners know more about American politics than actual Americans do-what we do affects the world. Even the people who like us over there feel resentment at our presence. I come home to hear Faux news talking about how the Democrats are encouraging the terrorists, but what is really hurting us over there is the torture debate. I got an e-mail from a guy over there after the British sailors were released commenting on how the Iranians treated their captives better than we treat ours.

The onetime British captives lied about the experience when they reported on their treatment by the Iranians, eh?

1) The Brits had done nothing wrong. They were entitled to their position and activity in Iraqi waters.

2) You probably got your e-mail from a European, not a resident of the Middle East. Torture is SOP in the Middle East; it's a shock them that it's otherwise for Westerners. Since they know that many Europeans and many U.S. liberals even consider uncomfortably warm or cool quarters as "torture" and since they know the media is one of the main theaters of war during an insurgency, they play up stuff like that to try to achieve moral equivalency and sap the opposition's will to fight.

3) The 15 Royal marines and sailors held captive by Iran for 13 days said yesterday that they spent much of that time blindfolded and in isolation.

At one point, they endured what one described as a mock execution. On the second day of their captivity, the British personnel were flown to Tehran and taken to a prison where they were lined up against a wall, hands bound, blankets over their heads.

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/dispatch/c...A5_SE6AMVM.html

A pity your friend apparently didn't pay much attention to what the British sailors reported about their treatment.

Maybe he was busy watching Harry Reid give a press conference or something.

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I would like to ask everyone to look deep into thier hearts and be honest with themselves. Do you really, truly and honestly feel we had the right to invade Iraq and remain there to this day? Or, on the other hand are you simply supporting your party? If you truly feel the we should stay in Iraq no matter what, then that is the way you feel and you should stand by it. If on the other hand you know in your heart that this is a big mistake but you will support your party no matter what then you should be ashamed of yourself.

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I would like to ask everyone to look deep into thier hearts and be honest with themselves. Do you really, truly and honestly feel we had the right to invade Iraq and remain there to this day? Or, on the other hand are you simply supporting your party? If you truly feel the we should stay in Iraq no matter what, then that is the way you feel and you should stand by it. If on the other hand you know in your heart that this is a big mistake but you will support your party no matter what then you should be ashamed of yourself.

This is an excellent point and a very important one. We have turned politics into a team sport, a matter of entertainment instead of personal responsibility. It is one of the many dangerous trends operating in our country today.

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I would like to ask everyone to look deep into thier hearts and be honest with themselves. Do you really, truly and honestly feel we had the right to invade Iraq and remain there to this day?

Duh, yeah.

Iraq broke the UN-brokered ceasefire agreement that ended the Gulf War. That's the agreement that Hussein made under duress to keep from being ousted form power way back when.

After a provisional government was established, the government asked us to remain to assist with security.

How much more right do you think we need?

Or, on the other hand are you simply supporting your party?

My party's wavering on the issue. I wish it weren't so.

Now a question for you:

Does the belief that we have no right to be in Iraq figure prominently in your reasoning for a military pullout?

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