Defeatocratic Highlights

[Guest BushBacker]

Question of the day.........When the defeatocrats took over the congress they

promised us lower gas prices. (I guess they're still working on that).

Quote of the day from Harry Reid....... "The war has been lost". (Thanks

Harry, the bad guys needed a morale boost).

Still waiting for the Defeatocrats to provide funding for the troops without a

surrender date.

Thank God we have a Republican president.

[Strife767]

Question of the day.........When the defeatocrats took over the congress they  

    promised us lower gas prices. (I guess they're still working on that).

Don't forget why prices skyrocketed in the first place: because Bush and friends invaded Iraq for no good reason, tying Hussein to 9/11 when there was absolutely no connection (i.e. lying), and basically screwed everything up over there. Since Bush and friends obviously can't clean up their own mess, the new Congress is doing their best to try and mop things up. Those idiots sure aren't making it easy--it's like a 5 year-old throwing paint all over a room, even as an older sibling tries to clean it up.

     Quote of the day from Harry Reid....... "The war has been lost".  (Thanks

   Harry, the bad guys needed a morale boost).

It's better than your kind's modus operandi, which is apparently "say whatever will make people feel good, even if it's patently untrue." WMDs? Hussein tied to 9/11? Bullshit. This was no 'war' to begin with. The "Iraq War" was a shambles from the beginning. We accomplished NOTHING other than, say, putting more crosshairs on this country.

The "Iraq War" is a lost cause...actually, it's hard to call it that because its 'cause' was a sham from the beginning. We need to bring our troops home--they're dying every day out there. And for what, huh?! There's more 'unrest' in the Middle East now than before we invaded! So shove your cocky attitude up your ass. The numbers have spoken, and the vast majority of Americans can't wait until this joker is out of office and being a total moron OUTSIDE of a position of power.

[Guest Guest]

Question of the day.........When the defeatocrats took over the congress they 

    promised us lower gas prices. (I guess they're still working on that).

   

    Quote of the day from Harry Reid....... "The war has been lost".  (Thanks

  Harry, the bad guys needed a morale boost).

      Still waiting for the Defeatocrats to provide funding for the troops without a

    surrender date.

      Thank God we have a Republican  president.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

America is STILL waiting for the Shrub to act presidential.

Why not just stumble back to the bar and have another drink with your delusions as your constant companions?

[WilliamK]

Question of the day.........When the defeatocrats took over the congress they 

promised us lower gas prices. (I guess they're still working on that).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Citation please?

And by "citation", I mean an actual, verifiable, quote of a democrat making such a promise. One who was either a current or potential office holder, or with official involvement in a campaign, not just some journalist or arm-chair political commentator blathering his opinion from the sidelines. A real quote. A real promise. Not just some generic criticism of the republicans for the prices getting so high on their watch, and not just someone else repeating the same unsubstantiated assertion that you've just made.

Can you provide that?

[Guest Kearny Republican]

Citation please?

And by "citation", I mean an actual, verifiable, quote of a democrat making such a promise. One who was either a current or potential office holder, or with official involvement in a campaign, not just some journalist or arm-chair political commentator blathering his opinion from the sidelines. A real quote. A real promise. Not just some generic criticism of the republicans for the prices getting so high on their watch, and not just someone else repeating the same unsubstantiated assertion that you've just made.

Can you provide that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a laugh ! Typical defeatocratic amnesia. I challange anyone to name ONE THING the defeatocrats have accomplished since they took over Congress. (I'll give you a hint......NOTHING !!) The defeatocrats are losing credibility every day, but not to worry, Rudy will straighten things out.

[Bryan]

Citation please?

And by "citation", I mean an actual, verifiable, quote of a democrat making such a promise. One who was either a current or potential office holder, or with official involvement in a campaign, not just some journalist or arm-chair political commentator blathering his opinion from the sidelines. A real quote. A real promise. Not just some generic criticism of the republicans for the prices getting so high on their watch, and not just someone else repeating the same unsubstantiated assertion that you've just made.

Can you provide that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

· DEMOCRATS Are Working to Provide Immediate Price Relief to Consumers. Democrats are working to provide immediate gas prices relief to consumers today. Democrats support initiatives to defer delivery of oil to the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, call on OPEC to increase production in the short term and call on the Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice to investigate price gouging at the pump. Democrats also support initiatives to prevent electricity market manipulation. [s. 847; S. 872]

http://democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=237046&

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/04/as_americans_fa.php

They're still working to keep the promise, though:

http://www.giveemhellharry.com/blog/101/he...-gas-prices-now

Somebody should explain to the Democrats that taking away the "giveaways" to oil companies will be translated into higher prices at the pump.

Or maybe they're smart enough to realize that, but trust gullible Democrat voters to give Democrat leaders credit for lowering prices while at the same time blaming the oil companies for raising the prices to sustain the profit margin.

Also note that the lower prices last for 60 days. The net effect of the move will be to increase gas prices once the 60 days has elapsed.

[Bryan]

Don't forget why prices skyrocketed in the first place: because Bush and friends invaded Iraq for no good reason,

There were a number of good reasons to invade Iraq.

tying Hussein to 9/11 when there was absolutely no connection (i.e. lying),

The persistence of this error is amazing.

1) Neither Bush nor his administration tied Hussein to 9-11 in terms of responsibility for the attack. The argument for war referred to 9-11 because 9-11 provided an illustration of the potential damage that asymmetrical warfare could wreak. 9-11 was should have been an enduring wake-up call that regimes like Hussein's in Iraq and the current regime in Iran--regimes who support and sponsor terrorism--cannot be permitted the opportunity to pass WMD technologies on to terrorists.

There was no lie from Bush on that topic, but the lie that Bush lied about it has spread like wildfire despite the fact that those who believe in it have no reasonable evidence to support the claim.

and basically screwed everything up over there.

A majority in Iraq still prefer the current state to the one under Hussein. Democrats would force a untimely pullback that would probably touch off a radical increase of sectarian violence and leave Iraq up for grabs for control by extremists.

It seems true, on the other hand, that the postwar strategy was ill-conceived. An approach such as that currently being followed by General Petraeus might have been much more effective, and it may have taken more troops to effect.

Since Bush and friends obviously can't clean up their own mess, the new Congress is doing their best to try and mop things up.

How is withdrawal within a year supposed to help? Seriously? Will the oil start to flow from Iraq once the civil war kicks into full gear? Once violence engulfs the country (really) engulfs it), will the youths primed for a life of violence keep their efforts concentrated in the Middle East or will they seek targets in the USA?

Those idiots sure aren't making it easy--it's like a 5 year-old throwing paint all over a room, even as an older sibling tries to clean it up.

Clean it up? The older sibling is trying to get the best painter out of the room, as if the results from the less-accomplished painters will be an overall improvement.

It's better than your kind's modus operandi, which is apparently "say whatever will make people feel good, even if it's patently untrue." WMDs?

Again, every intelligence service with an opinion on it believed Hussein had significant stockpiles of WMD. That's the Russians, the French, Italians--all of them.

It seems a bit odd that WMDs would make people feel good, but whatever.

Hussein tied to 9/11? Bullshit.

See above, and back up your claim if you can.

I see your losing streak ready to lengthen.

This was no 'war' to begin with. The "Iraq War" was a shambles from the beginning. We accomplished NOTHING other than, say, putting more crosshairs on this country.

Losing the Iraq war will put more crosshairs on this country.

Winning it shows that opposition is fruitless.

The "Iraq War" is a lost cause...actually, it's hard to call it that because its 'cause' was a sham from the beginning. We need to bring our troops home--they're dying every day out there. And for what, huh?!

For Iraq's shot at freedom, and ensuring that Hussein did not have WMD--because we still wouldn't know otherwise unless we'd caught him using them.

There's more 'unrest' in the Middle East now than before we invaded!

If you think there's unrest now, just wait until the Democrats hasten US military withdrawal. You haven't seen anything yet.

So shove your cocky attitude up your ass. The numbers have spoken, and the vast majority of Americans can't wait until this joker is out of office and being a total moron OUTSIDE of a position of power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Citation?

[Bern]

Question of the day.........When the defeatocrats took over the congress they 

    promised us lower gas prices. (I guess they're still working on that).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The ones who promised lower prices were Republicans

Laurence Lindsey – President Bush’s senior economic advisor at the time — argued in 2002 that the Iraq war would increase oil supplies and lower prices. From the Washington Times, 9/19/02:    As for the impact of a war with Iraq, “It depends how the war goes.” But he quickly adds that that “Under every plausible scenario, the negative effect will be quite small relative to the economic benefits that would come from a successful prosecution of the war.”    “The key issue is oil, and a regime change in Iraq would facilitate an increase in world oil,” which would drive down oil prices, giving the U.S. economy an added boost.

The fact is oil prices went up during the Bush presidency. What a loser.

So much extra oil money going to the Arab states. What will they do with it all? Might some filter to the Islamic Fundamentalists and/or Al Qaeda?

I bet all these very happy Arabs are thanking Allah five times a day for us having Bush.

[Guest Guest]

Citation please?

And by "citation", I mean an actual, verifiable, quote of a democrat making such a promise. One who was either a current or potential office holder, or with official involvement in a campaign, not just some journalist or arm-chair political commentator blathering his opinion from the sidelines. A real quote. A real promise. Not just some generic criticism of the republicans for the prices getting so high on their watch, and not just someone else repeating the same unsubstantiated assertion that you've just made.

Can you provide that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must be new to this board if you actually expect BushWanker to concern himself with something he considers as unimportant as truth or facts, guess that's why he idolizes the Shrub, another to whom facts and truth are inconveniences.

[Guest Guest]

Question of the day.........When the defeatocrats took over the congress they 

    promised us lower gas prices. (I guess they're still working on that).

   

    Quote of the day from Harry Reid....... "The war has been lost".  (Thanks

  Harry, the bad guys needed a morale boost).

      Still waiting for the Defeatocrats to provide funding for the troops without a

    surrender date.

      Thank God we have a Republican  president.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell Bushjacker-what is victory in Iraq? I have yet to hear a good definition. Should we stay there another decade to try to keep the peace? Two decades? How many of our Guardsmen's lives are you willing to destroy to avoid admitting you were wrong? It is easy to talk about how great Bush is when you don't have to pay the price. How about you defend your country?

[Guest Guest]

What a laugh ! Typical defeatocratic amnesia.  I challange anyone to name ONE THING the defeatocrats have accomplished since they took over Congress. (I'll give you a hint......NOTHING !!)  The defeatocrats are losing credibility every day, but not to worry, Rudy will straighten things out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rudy wll be buried by the skeletons emerging from his closet.

[Guest BushBacker]

Tell Bushjacker-what is victory in Iraq? I have yet to hear a good definition. Should we stay there another decade to try to keep the peace? Two decades? How many of our Guardsmen's lives are you willing to destroy to avoid admitting you were wrong? It is easy to talk about how great Bush is when you don't have to pay the price. How about you defend your country?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have served in the military, I'm sure that's more than I can say for you. Since your statement had 5 question marks, I'll answer them. We are in a global war on terrorism. If we were to pull out of Iraq tomorrow, this war would go on, maybe in Iran or maybe in the U.S. The terrorists will not quietly put down their weapons and start singing "we are the world" when we leave Iraq. We either fight them in Iraq or we fight them somewhere else, but make no mistake, this is a war we must and will fight. The defeatocrats will never admit to this because they are too consumed with their hatred for Bush, but regardless who is president, democrat or republican, we are in a war with no foreseeable end. Al Quida (I'm sure that's spelled wrong) is in this for the long haul, they will not quietly go away. If they should get their hands on a nuclear weapon and detonate it in Port Elizabeth, I think you may have a change of attitude.

[Guest Guest]

The ones who promised lower prices were Republicans

The fact is oil prices went up during the Bush presidency. What a loser.

So much extra oil money going to the Arab states. What will they do with it all? Might some filter to the Islamic Fundamentalists and/or Al Qaeda?

I bet all these very happy Arabs are thanking Allah five times a day for us having Bush.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Has anyone forgotten what industry the so-called president and so-called vice president were in before finagling their way into office?

[Guest 2smart4u]

What a laugh ! Typical defeatocratic amnesia.  I challange anyone to name ONE THING the defeatocrats have accomplished since they took over Congress. (I'll give you a hint......NOTHING !!)  The defeatocrats are losing credibility every day, but not to worry, Rudy will straighten things out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bizarre poll results announced on CNN last night. Incredible !! 30% of democrats polled believe Bush planned the 9/11 attacks , they believe the buildings were intentionally blown up. Dispite videos showing planes flying into the buildings, 30% of democrats insist Bush did it !! There is no explaining this lunacy other than to say it must be the Kool-aid.

[Bryan]

The ones who promised lower prices were Republicans

Citation?

The fact is oil prices went up during the Bush presidency. What a loser.

The oil market is a global market.

A modest loss of oil production from Iraq is about the greatest extent of Bush's negative impact on oil prices. Oil prices are rising primarily because of robust economic growth in China and India.

Ever heard of supply and demand?

Bush has, that's why he secured a deal with India that will have them rely more on nuclear power.

So much extra oil money going to the Arab states. What will they do with it all? Might some filter to the Islamic Fundamentalists and/or Al Qaeda?

Certainly. And what will the Democrats do about it? Prevent drilling in ANWR, stop windmill electricity on Cape Cod--and probably continue to oppose the development of nuclear power domestically.

Just wait for the oil prices to plummet under that policy.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...-725174,00.html

I bet all these very happy Arabs are thanking Allah five times a day for us having Bush.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For sure they recognized the protection of ANWR as a help to artificially high-priced oil.

It's almost as funny as it is sad to see Bush Derangement Syndrome in action.

[Bryan]

Tell Bushjacker-what is victory in Iraq? I have yet to hear a good definition.

A stable, constitutional republic aligned against terrorism.

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We're bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We're pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime who will be held to account for their crimes. We've begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons, and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated.

We are helping to rebuild Iraq where the dictator built palaces for himself instead of hospitals and schools.

And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by and for the Iraqi people.

The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done and then we will leave and we will leave behind a free Iraq.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/01/bush.transcript/

Should we stay there another decade to try to keep the peace?

Could be. It might save millions of lives.

Two decades?

Could be. It might save many millions of lives.

How many of our Guardsmen's lives are you willing to destroy to avoid admitting you were wrong?

Wrong about what? Doesn't saving millions of lives count for anything?

It is easy to talk about how great Bush is when you don't have to pay the price. How about you defend your country?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The ones who defend the country (servicemen) are among the groups most supportive of continued involvement in Iraq.

Does that mean anything to you?

Despite a year of ferocious combat, mounting casualties and frequent deployments, support for the war in Iraq remains overwhelming among the active-duty military, according to the 2004 Military Times Poll.

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2004_mainbar.php

Dec. 2006: Almost half of those responding think we need more troops in Iraq than we have there now. A surpris ing 13 percent said we should have no troops there.

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006_main.php

Are you with the 13 percent?

[WilliamK]

· DEMOCRATS Are Working to Provide Immediate Price Relief to Consumers. Democrats are working to provide immediate gas prices relief to consumers today. Democrats support initiatives to defer delivery of oil to the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, call on OPEC to increase production in the short term and call on the Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice to investigate price gouging at the pump. Democrats also support initiatives to prevent electricity market manipulation. [s. 847; S. 872]

http://democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=237046&

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow Bryan, that bold effect makes that look almost as if it were relevant. But as it turns out, it's talking about what that democrats were working on at the time it was published in early 2005. Neither the bolded quote nor the linked article contains any promises at all about what the democrats would do after gaining a majority in Congress in the next election. That shouldn't be surprising since the election was still a year and a half away. Sorry Bryan, this citation fails entirely to meet my stated criteria. More importanly, it does not in any way support the claim that I had challenged BushBacker to support.

Here it is again, in case you've forgotten: "When the defeatocrats took over the congress they promised us lower gas prices."

Strike 1, Bryan.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/04/as_americans_fa.php

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, surprise surprise. No promises in that article either. Just criticism of the republicans.

Steee-rike two!

They're still working to keep the promise, though:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which promise is that, Bryan? The one that BushBacker made up and that you pretended to validate?

http://www.giveemhellharry.com/blog/101/he...-gas-prices-now

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh oh. No promises there either. Just action. (Notice that I'm not arguing that it's GOOD action, but it is action, not promises.)

Impressive, Bryan. Three strikes in one post.

p.s.

Please forgive me for that smug and stupid "three strikes" thing, folks. I'm just hoping that Bryan might be able to see how prickish his behavior is when it is turned back at him.

[WilliamK]

Somebody should explain to the Democrats that taking away the "giveaways" to oil companies will be translated into higher prices at the pump.

Or maybe they're smart enough to realize that, but trust gullible Democrat voters to give Democrat leaders credit for lowering prices while at the same time blaming the oil companies for raising the prices to sustain the profit margin.

Also note that the lower prices last for 60 days.  The net effect of the move will be to increase gas prices once the 60 days has elapsed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, not a good plan. It's sort of like a rice-grain miniature of that republican plan to provide tax breaks and simultaneously increase spending, making the economy look better than it really is in the short term, at the expense of an unprecedented national debt that will burden the economy for decades to come. Robbing our children (and our near-future selves) to buy us bread and circuses in the hope that we won't give their sorry butts a well deserved boot at the next election.

You wouldn't think that people would be stupid enough to fall for something so transparent and despicable. But incredibly, many are that stupid.

Case in point:

The economy is up, stock market is breaking records, unemployment is at record lows, war is going our way. Only a white flag waving defeatocrat would see something negative in all that. God bless George Bush, he's a great man and a great President.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[WilliamK]

What a laugh ! Typical defeatocratic amnesia.  I challange anyone to name ONE THING the defeatocrats have accomplished since they took over Congress. (I'll give you a hint......NOTHING !!)  The defeatocrats are losing credibility every day, but not to worry, Rudy will straighten things out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Laugh all you want, but I'm still waiting for my citation. I'm not ruling it out, as it could be out there somewhere unknown to me. But given the complete failure to back it up BushBacker's claim at this point, it's already obvious that, even if it eventually proves to be true, it was stated by BushBacker, and then defended by you and Bryan, without any of you actually knowing whether it was true. A pure fabrication. If it's true, it's only by accident.

So, if the proof turns up, my "amnesia" (or more likely, not-so-great research skill) will be confirmed. But you lot's accuracy and integrity will remain absent.

[Guest Kearny Republican]

Laugh all you want, but I'm still waiting for my citation. I'm not ruling it out, as it could be out there somewhere unknown to me. But given the complete failure to back it up BushBacker's claim at this point, it's already obvious that, even if it eventually proves to be true, it was stated by BushBacker, and then defended by you and Bryan, without any of you actually knowing whether it was true. A pure fabrication. If it's true, it's only by accident.

So, if the proof turns up, my "amnesia" (or more likely, not-so-great research skill) will be confirmed. But you lot's accuracy and integrity will remain absent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, this sums up the defeatocrats logic, "If it's true, it's only by accident" !!

You must be one of the 30% of Defeatocrats that believe Bush caused 9/11.

Would you like a "citation" that two 767's flew into the towers also.

Lay off the Kool-aid.

[Bryan]

Wow Bryan, that bold effect makes that look almost as if it were relevant. But as it turns out, it's talking about what that democrats were working on at the time it was published in early 2005.

Ah. So they gave up on the idea entirely, then. Sorry, wasn't aware of that.

Neither the bolded quote nor the linked article contains any promises at all about what the democrats would do after gaining a majority in Congress in the next election.

I did make the error of thinking that your request for a citation had to do with the Democratic intent to lower gas prices rather than the rest.

I simply responded to your first line, in other words, so it's fair for you to call me out on strikes as you did.

Introducing that legislation in 2006 was certainly intended to send a message to voters that Democrats would protect them from high oil prices, and the current proposal has the same intent.

In fact, it would be in keeping with a strategy of trying to blame the other side for high gas prices.

All Things Considered, April 25, 2006 · When gas prices spike in an election year, political candidates scramble to offer their ideas for improving the system. Recent record-high gas prices have lawmakers from both parties demanding answers -- and possibly seeking a political advantage.

Democrats are pouncing on the price rise, hoping that voters this fall will blame the Republicans, the party in power. GOP lawmakers, meanwhile, have been trying to deflect the blame, saying Democrats blocked proposals to increase domestic energy production.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5362370

The obvious implication is that the challenging party will do better in handling gas prices.

WilliamK apparently wants to soft-pedal the issue since Pelosi and company didn't actually promise the voters anything.

Probably a wise approach.

[Bryan]

Yeah, not a good plan. It's sort of like a rice-grain miniature of that republican plan to provide tax breaks and simultaneously increase spending, making the economy look better than it really is in the short term, at the expense of an unprecedented national debt that will burden the economy for decades to come.

That's an illicit comparison, but I'm at least delighted that we're agreed that the Democrat gas-price plan is ridiculous.

The Republicans have overspent in certain key areas, but Democrats nearly always have a higher-priced alternative plan (military budgeting is the typical exception). That's something that really can be blamed to a large extent on Bush. He was/is a big-government Republican.

Generally speaking, however, the GOP is more responsible about spending than Democrats. It's fair to count recent experience against the GOP, of course.

The point about the debt, however, is bogus. The debt is unprecedented in terms of raw numbers just like most everybody had an unprecedentedly high grocery bill within the past five years.

In comparison to the GDP, however, the debt has been greater in the past. In like manner, your record grocery bill did not necessarily take a more dominant hunk out of your monthly budget than a lower grocery bill years earlier.

Robbing our children (and our near-future selves) to buy us bread and circuses in the hope that we won't give their sorry butts a well deserved boot at the next election.

What's the bread and circuses in the analogy?

Other than things like Medicare drug plans and making promises to keep Social Security as a ponzi scheme that takes a bigger hunk out of the budget every year?

[Guest Radagast]

Despite a year of ferocious combat, mounting casualties and frequent deployments, support for the war in Iraq remains overwhelming among the active-duty military, according to the 2004 Military Times Poll.

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2004_mainbar.php

Dec. 2006:  Almost half of those responding think we need more troops in Iraq than we have there now. A surpris ing 13 percent said we should have no troops there.

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006_main.php

Are you with the 13 percent? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This was apoll from 2006 and it is likely worse now.

Zogby:

Released: February 28, 2006

U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006

Le Moyne College/Zogby Poll shows just one in five troops want to heed Bush call to stay “as long as they are needed”

While 58% say mission is clear, 42% say U.S. role is hazy

Plurality believes Iraqi insurgents are mostly homegrown

Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11, most don’t blame Iraqi public for insurgent attacks

Majority of troops oppose use of harsh prisoner interrogation

Plurality of troops pleased with their armor and equipment

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

[Bryan]

This was apoll from 2006 and it is likely worse now.

It was a poll from December 2006.

The terms of engagement have changed so that they are more favorable for our troops, now.

But that will make them less likely to support the war, you think?

Zogby:

Released: February 28, 2006

U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006

That poll is from 2006.

Early 2006, that is. Mine's more recent than yours by close to a year.

Le Moyne College/Zogby Poll shows just one in five troops want to heed Bush call to stay “as long as they are needed”

While 58% say mission is clear, 42% say U.S. role is hazy

Plurality believes Iraqi insurgents are mostly homegrown

Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11, most don’t blame Iraqi public for insurgent attacks

Majority of troops oppose use of harsh prisoner interrogation

Plurality of troops pleased with their armor and equipment

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's one of the polls that resulted in a bit of a hit to Zogby's credibility, since the poll was commissioned by an antiwar set of deep pockets and Zogby would not divulge the methodology.

Here's a review of the Zogby poll by (left-leaning but fair) Mark Blumenthal of Polster.com (formerly "Mystery Pollster"):

http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/2006/0...ogby_poll_.html

[Guest Paul]

Question of the day.........When the defeatocrats took over the congress they 

    promised us lower gas prices. (I guess they're still working on that).

   

    Quote of the day from Harry Reid....... "The war has been lost".  (Thanks

  Harry, the bad guys needed a morale boost).

      Still waiting for the Defeatocrats to provide funding for the troops without a

    surrender date.

      Thank God we have a Republican  president.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When frat boy was running for president, he consistently lectured Gore on the criteria for taking a country into war: (1) the mission must be clear, (2) it must be achievable and (3) there must be an exit strategy.

The US military won the military venture in Iraq in a few weeks. The problem that has us mired in what is now an Iraqi civil war is that we cannot force the peace or a stable democracy.

So, applying Bush's own criteria: (1) the mission was not clear, because the administration was either oblivious to or dishonest about what it would require, (2) it was not achievable, a lesson we should have learned from Vietnam, and (3) there was no exit strategy, as evidenced by the fact that no one has a clue how to get us out of this mess. No Republican, no Democrat, no one has the slightest idea how to leave there without leaving chaos behind and thousands of lives wasted. The only thing Bush has to offer is to stay there until it's the next president's problem, never mind that a real Christian would consider it a sin to sacrifice the lives of brave and yet innocent men and women to serve his own ego. When the next president somehow gets us out of there, which the American people will demand, the Bushies will blame the defeat on him or her. This is cynical politics at the level of criminality.

All of that leaves completely aside the damage this misadventure has done to our standing in the world, the distraction it has been from a real fight against terroism, the huge amounts money spent and of course all the lives lost. This will go down in history as the worst foreign policy blunder in our history.

But it never matters to the sloganeers on the right. The truth rarely does matter to them. They're right, and the world must revolve around that illusion. They are the sun, the moon and the stars, and if you disagree with them, you're not patriotic. Along with millions of other Americans, I am sick of their way of thinking and their way of treating people who disagree with them.