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The Trouble With Atheism


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The trouble with Atheism, a very informative documentary about Atheists by Rod Liddle. It's about 48 min. long and well worth it.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSM7BUmx6hY

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XTk-ecK9VM...related&search=

"In The Trouble With Atheism, Liddle argued that atheists can be as dogmatic and intolerant as the adherents of religion. "History has shown us," he says, "that it’s not religion that’s the problem, but any system of thought that insists that one group of people are inviolably in the right, whereas the others are in the wrong and must somehow be punished." Liddle argues, for example, that eugenic policies are the logical consequence of dogmatic adherence to Darwinism." (emphasis added) --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Liddle

Just a taste of the kind of logical leaps this person makes. It's just more of the same tired tripe that's been disproven over and over again. Look, it's even in www.talkorigins.org's index of creationist claims: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA006.html

Obviously there can exist fanatics in any group of people, atheists included. However, I have to say that in my experience, a far larger percent of theists (relatively speaking) have the 'atheists deserve punishment' mentality than atheists who feel that 'theists deserve punishment.' Most atheists, myself included, are largely indifferent to any person's religious beliefs, so long as they do not impose them on others.

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"In The Trouble With Atheism, Liddle argued that atheists can be as dogmatic and intolerant as the adherents of religion. "History has shown us," he says, "that it’s not religion that’s the problem, but any system of thought that insists that one group of people are inviolably in the right, whereas the others are in the wrong and must somehow be punished." Liddle argues, for example, that eugenic policies are the logical consequence of dogmatic adherence to Darwinism." (emphasis added) --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Liddle

I think this is true. It's the dogmatics of any faith or lack thereof that causes the problems.

Rather than trying to be right, or prove the other side wrong, why can't we just get along, and accept each other's beliefs and not try to force your beliefs on another?

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Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo
"In The Trouble With Atheism, Liddle argued that atheists can be as dogmatic and intolerant as the adherents of religion. "History has shown us," he says, "that it’s not religion that’s the problem, but any system of thought that insists that one group of people are inviolably in the right, whereas the others are in the wrong and must somehow be punished." Liddle argues, for example, that eugenic policies are the logical consequence of dogmatic adherence to Darwinism." (emphasis added) --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Liddle

Just a taste of the kind of logical leaps this person makes. It's just more of the same tired tripe that's been disproven over and over again. Look, it's even on www.talkorigins.org's index of creationist claims: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA006.html

Speaking for myself. I don't want Christians or any other religion to "go away" . Actually I want them to feel safe and comfortable to Worship however and whomever they want. I have no desire to "convert" anyone to what I do or do not believe. Unfortunately for me they have never extended me the same courtesy, which in my opinon seems to be the root cause of alot of controversy we experience today. I just want to be left alone, to live my life the way I see fit. If someone can't respect that becuse it doesn't jibe with thier religious views then they shouldn't be surprised that there are those of us who will fight them tooth and nail over things like separation of church and state.

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The trouble with Atheism, a very informative documentary about Atheists by Rod Liddle. It's about 48 min. long and well worth it.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSM7BUmx6hY

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XTk-ecK9VM...related&search=

When it comes to atheism and Christianity and their effects on society, lets judge them by their fruits:

Christianity produced western civilization as we know it with the USA at its apex.

Atheism produced such great examples of human achievement as the USSR, Red China, and North Korea.

You decide which has been more beneficial.

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Guest bik49ypik@yahoo.com
"In The Trouble With Atheism, Liddle argued that atheists can be as dogmatic and intolerant as the adherents of religion. "History has shown us," he says, "that it’s not religion that’s the problem, but any system of thought that insists that one group of people are inviolably in the right, whereas the others are in the wrong and must somehow be punished." Liddle argues, for example, that eugenic policies are the logical consequence of dogmatic adherence to Darwinism." (emphasis added) --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Liddle

Just a taste of the kind of logical leaps this person makes. It's just more of the same tired tripe that's been disproven over and over again. Look, it's even in www.talkorigins.org's index of creationist claims: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA006.html

Obviously there can exist fanatics in any group of people, atheists included. However, I have to say that in my experience, a far larger percent of theists (relatively speaking) have the 'atheists deserve punishment' mentality than atheists who feel that 'theists deserve punishment.' Most atheists, myself included, are largely indifferent to any person's religious beliefs, so long as they do not impose them on others.

There are many religious people and groups that have done good deeds for others without trying to impose their religious beliefs on them. I can think of examples such as the homeless shelters in both Newark and Jersey City and also the food kitchen's for those who have nothing to eat. Religion may not be for everyone, but for some it has been a comfort. The world is not what was 100 years ago, not even 20 or 10 years ago. Just as it may sometime seem to be an attack on your choice of atheism, there are times that religion, whatever one it is, comes under attack. Sometimes there is a very fine line between expressing ones beliefs either intentionally or unintentionally through a medallion or phrase, and overstepping ones boundaries.

But what do you feel about the Pledge of Allegiance? Personally, it is a Pledge to this country and the flag and it bothers me for who do not respect it. Many people have given more than ever asked for defending it so that we can be here today.

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When it comes to atheism and Christianity and their effects on society, lets judge them by their fruits:

Christianity produced western civilization as we know it with the USA at its apex.

LOL, you wish!

"Ancient Greece is a period in Greek history that lasted for around one thousand years. It is generally considered to be the foundational culture of Western Civilization. Greek culture was a powerful influence in the Roman Empire, which carried a version of it to many parts of Europe.

The civilization of the ancient Greeks has been immensely influential on the language, politics, educational systems, philosophy, science, and arts, giving rise to the Renaissance in Western Europe and again resurgent during various neo-Classical revivals in 18th and 19th century Europe and the Americas." --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_greece

Are you saying that Ancient Greeks were Christians, over a thousand years before Christianity was founded? B) Lying buffoon. Christianity deserves no credit for Western civilization.

Atheism produced such great examples of human achievement as the USSR, Red China, and North Korea.

Bzzt, wrong. Communism != atheism.

"nowhere in the Communist Manifesto or in USSR's Constitution (even during the height of the cold war) does there occur any mention of atheism. Nor did the USSR ever exterminate religion. On the contrary, nothing in Communism disallows religion...Communism describes an economic and social belief system, based on the concept of community ownership rather than individual ownership. It says nothing about promoting atheism or eliminating religion...Note that virtually all books that attempt to connect atheism with communism have come from religious organizations or religious authors who have an obvious bent against a rival and competing belief-system. Indeed, Communism, at least the brand of Russian communism, has served as a threat to certain brands of Christian denominations, but this reflects no more an alignment with atheism than the history of Catholicism against Protestantism, or Protestantism against Catholicism, or Islam against Christianity or Christianity against Islam. Believers have always portrayed enemies of religion as practicing subterfuge, propaganda, and by false labeling (and always doing the same themselves), and the same goes with arguments against Communism, for Communism describes a kind of religion in itself, a worship of the god of state instead of a god who dictates. Communism competes against religious dogma because it itself describes a dogma." http://nobeliefs.com/facts.htm#anchor199422

You decide which has been more beneficial.

If it wasn't for people opening their minds beyond the narrow superstition of creationism, there would be no Theory of Evolution, or in turn modern biology, or modern medicine. Many (arguably all) vaccines would have never been invented if everyone had kept their noses in holy books instead of looking for their own answers.

If you are 40 or older and healthy, you likely owe non-Christians your life for discovering the technology that has doubled average human life expectancy from what it used to be. Think about that for a moment while you attack people who make it possible for you to spew this ignorance on the Internet.

Bill Gates is an atheist--to use Microsoft software while whining about atheism is the height of hilarious hypocrisy and stupidity. So, tell me...what operating system did you write the post I am replying to you on? :)

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There are many religious people and groups that have done good deeds for others without trying to impose their religious beliefs on them.

No one has claimed otherwise.

But what do you feel about the Pledge of Allegiance?  Personally, it is a Pledge to this country and the flag and it bothers me for who do not respect it.

1. It is far more important to respect and be allegiant toward the Constitution than a mere flag.

2. The majority of people who refuse to say 'the pledge' are people who are protesting the "under God" part added during the Red Scare. Like the Patriot Act, it was something that never should have been, but that snuck its way through during a time when a lot of Americans were scared and vulnerable.

Many people have given more than ever asked for defending it so that we can be here today.

Not standing for the pledge is _part_ of the freedom our troops have fought and died for! Don't you realize that?

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Guest Steve_C
There are many religious people and groups that have done good deeds for others without trying to impose their religious beliefs on them. I can think of examples such as the homeless shelters in both Newark and Jersey City and also the food kitchen's for those who have nothing to eat.  Religion may not be for everyone, but for some it has been a comfort.  The world is not what was 100 years ago, not even 20 or 10 years ago.  Just as it may sometime seem to be an attack on your choice of atheism, there are times that religion, whatever one it is, comes under attack.  Sometimes there is a very fine line between expressing ones beliefs either intentionally or unintentionally through a medallion or phrase, and overstepping ones boundaries.   

But what do you feel about the Pledge of Allegiance?  Personally, it is a Pledge to this country and the flag and it bothers me for who do not respect it.  Many people have given more than ever asked for defending it so that we can be here today.

One Nation "under god" was added to the pledge in the 50's during the cold war.

I'm happy to pledge allegiance to the flag and the nation... but to it being under one god is a lie.

I don't believe in any god... there is no god to be under.

Atheism is the disbelief in god or gods... that's it. There are social and philisophical ramifications to that belief which are different for every atheist. But all that's required is to believe there is no god.

Just like everyone here believes there is no Zeus, or Thor or Mithras or Easter Bunny.

I have no problem with any faith as long as it isn't given special priviledge or is institutionalized.

Faith is a private matter, it is a personal thing. To expect a nation of millions to all fall in line with one faith is foolish. Especially since there's about 100 denominations of christianity.

I personally say the pledge like this.

" I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

it's amazingly close to how it was originally written...

I pledge allegiance to my Flag,

and to the Republic for which it stands:

one Nation indivisible,

With Liberty and Justice for all.

October 11, 1892

Under god was added in 1954.

Seems SOME christians want to skip the last line.

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When it comes to atheism and Christianity and their effects on society, lets judge them by their fruits:

Christianity produced western civilization as we know it with the USA at its apex.

Atheism produced such great examples of human achievement as the USSR, Red China, and North Korea.

You decide which has been more beneficial.

Have you noticed what a juggernaut China is?

It's a superpower rising... as America's powers are fading.

America became a superpower because of the industrial revolution and capitalism.

Which is what China is now attempting to mimic.

Religion has nothing to do with it.

In terms of education and quality of life the U.S. trails most of Europe badly...

We will be eclipsed by both asia and europe if we don't get our act together.

Unlike some that look at the U.S. like a mother... who can do no wrong.

I look at the U.S. like a spouse... I notice the flaws and what needs to be improved.

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The trouble with Atheism, a very informative documentary about Atheists by Rod Liddle. It's about 48 min. long and well worth it.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSM7BUmx6hY

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XTk-ecK9VM...related&search=

And so it would be bad if an atheist teacher told his class there was no heaven, so nobody was going to heaven. But this situation is not about atheist dogma, and your comments are not even relevant. This situation is about a bonehead loudmouth self-centered teacher doing a very poor job of guiding youth to honesty, wisdom and fairness in the American way. He should indisputably be fired, and let him go get a job with a church school where the rules suit him, because he obviously does not have the discipline to adhere to the public school.

What would Jesus do? He'd tell Kearney, N.J. to smarten up!

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When it comes to atheism and Christianity and their effects on society, lets judge them by their fruits:

Christianity produced western civilization as we know it with the USA at its apex.

Atheism produced such great examples of human achievement as the USSR, Red China, and North Korea.

You decide which has been more beneficial.

Yeah, atheism's directly responsible for the actions of every regime that didn't have a state religion! And it's to blame for the Inquisition, witch trials, Crusades, "God Hates Fags" protests at funerals, abortion-clinic bombings, and all the holy wars throughout history!

Darn those destructive atheists.

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When it comes to atheism and Christianity and their effects on society, lets judge them by their fruits:

Christianity produced western civilization as we know it with the USA at its apex.

Atheism produced such great examples of human achievement as the USSR, Red China, and North Korea.

You decide which has been more beneficial.

You conveniently neglect to mention that Christianity also destroyed some fine cultures in Central and South America.

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Yeah, atheism's directly responsible for the actions of every regime that didn't have a state religion! And it's to blame for the Inquisition, witch trials, Crusades, "God Hates Fags" protests at funerals, abortion-clinic bombings, and all the holy wars throughout history!

Darn those destructive atheists.

<_<

A well-polished mirror these people have, no?

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You conveniently neglect to mention that Christianity also destroyed some fine cultures in Central and South America.

This reminds me of the part of Carlos Mencia's No Strings Attached special where he described going off on a woman who was offended because he wasn't crying while watching the Passion of the Christ. Great stuff.

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Guest Dingo Dave
LOL, you wish!

"Ancient Greece is a period in Greek history that lasted for around one thousand years. It is generally considered to be the foundational culture of Western Civilization. Greek culture was a powerful influence in the Roman Empire, which carried a version of it to many parts of Europe.

The civilization of the ancient Greeks has been immensely influential on the language, politics, educational systems, philosophy, science, and arts, giving rise to the Renaissance in Western Europe and again resurgent during various neo-Classical revivals in 18th and 19th century Europe and the Americas." --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_greece

Are you saying that Ancient Greeks were Christians, over a thousand years before Christianity was founded? <_< Lying buffoon. Christianity deserves no credit for Western civilization.

Bzzt, wrong. Communism != atheism.

"nowhere in the Communist Manifesto or in USSR's Constitution (even during the height of the cold war) does there occur any mention of atheism. Nor did the USSR ever exterminate religion. On the contrary, nothing in Communism disallows religion...Communism describes an economic and social belief system, based on the concept of community ownership rather than individual ownership. It says nothing about promoting atheism or eliminating religion...Note that virtually all books that attempt to connect atheism with communism have come from religious organizations or religious authors who have an obvious bent against a rival and competing belief-system. Indeed, Communism, at least the brand of Russian communism, has served as a threat to certain brands of Christian denominations, but this reflects no more an alignment with atheism than the history of Catholicism against Protestantism, or Protestantism against Catholicism, or Islam against Christianity or Christianity against Islam. Believers have always portrayed enemies of religion as practicing subterfuge, propaganda, and by false labeling (and always doing the same themselves), and the same goes with arguments against Communism, for Communism describes a kind of religion in itself, a worship of the god of state instead of a god who dictates. Communism competes against religious dogma because it itself describes a dogma." http://nobeliefs.com/facts.htm#anchor199422

If it wasn't for people opening their minds beyond the narrow superstition of creationism, there would be no Theory of Evolution, or in turn modern biology, or modern medicine. Many (arguably all) vaccines would have never been invented if everyone had kept their noses in holy books instead of looking for their own answers.

If you are 40 or older and healthy, you likely owe non-Christians your life for discovering the technology that has doubled average human life expectancy from what it used to be. Think about that for a moment while you attack people who make it possible for you to spew this ignorance on the Internet.

Bill Gates is an atheist--to use Microsoft software while whining about atheism is the height of hilarious hypocrisy and stupidity. So, tell me...what operating system did you write the post I am replying to you on? :)

Good summary. I couldn't help posting it again, just in case anyone missed it the first time. :)

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Guest Dingo Dave
You conveniently neglect to mention that Christianity also destroyed some fine cultures in Central and South America.

It has destroyed virtually every culture it has ever come into contact with.

As the biologist Edward Wilson once said; "Every major religion today is a winner in the Darwinian struggle waged among cultures, and none ever flourished by tolerating its rivals."

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According to the theory of the big bang the universe exploded from a single point

and then space itself expanded because there was no such thing as preexisting space to expand into and so stars, planets, solar systems, and galaxies have been traveling out in every direction ever since.

Everything has been flying away from everything else for at least 15 billion years, and on one small obscure planet, an anomaly, an accident occurs, a chance combination of carbon and nitrogen atoms fuse into a single cell, a spec of organic life witch leads to increasingly complex and evolving forms struggling for existence and what develops over the course of millions of years is a creature walking on its hind legs with free will, that’s us.

That such an accident occurred from absolutely nothing is even more absurd than the idea that someone or something created it, so if you want to find God maybe you shouldn’t look in scripture but out at the planets the stars the universe and then at the world we live in.

Under the sea there are creature with tendrils and suckers, with stems for mouths, with poisonous stingers, there’s a fish called the “hatchet fish” that electrically lights its anus to blind predators sneaking up from behind, and this blinding light comes from a colony of luminescent bacteria that live in the fishes rectum, all part of gods plan… I guess.

Joe Frank

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Bill Gates is an atheist--to use Microsoft software while whining about atheism is the height of hilarious hypocrisy and stupidity. So, tell me...what operating system did you write the post I am replying to you on? :)

Perhaps he uses one of the many Christian inspired operating systems, such as:

Linux,

Margie: How about religion?

Linus: Hmmm, completely a-religious--atheist. I find that people seem to think religion brings morals and appreciation of nature. I actually think it detracts from both. It gives people the excuse to say, ``Oh, nature was just created'', and so the act of creation is seen to be something miraculous. I appreciate the fact that, ``Wow, it's incredible that something like this could have happened in the first place.'' I think we can have morals without getting religion into it, and a lot of bad things have come from organized religion in particular. I actually fear organized religion because it usually leads to misuses of power.

(http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3655)

or Mac.

Comment from E-mail:

I was reading that Gates, Linus T. and Larry Ellison are all atheist or agnostic. The article made no mention of you or Steve Jobs. My question is, are you a man of faith and do you think that Mr. Jobs is believes in God?

Woz:

I am also atheist or agnostic (I don't even know the difference). I've never been to church and prefer to think for myself. I do believe that religions stand for good things, and that if you make irrational sacrifices for a religion, then everyone can tell that your religion is important to you and can trust that your most important inner faiths are strong.

Steve Jobs may be an informal fan of Eastern religions but it's never obvious in him and I never heard of him regularly attending a church. That's only a guess.

(http://www.woz.org/letters/general/72.html)

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When it comes to atheism and Christianity and their effects on society, lets judge them by their fruits:

Christianity produced western civilization as we know it with the USA at its apex.

Atheism produced such great examples of human achievement as the USSR, Red China, and North Korea.

You decide which has been more beneficial.

So in your narrow little field of vision ancient Greece and the Roman Empire had no influence on western civilization?

I think you need to review your history a bit.

And if the USA is the apex of civilization I thik we're in big trouble.

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When it comes to atheism and Christianity and their effects on society, lets judge them by their fruits:

Christianity produced western civilization as we know it with the USA at its apex.

Atheism produced such great examples of human achievement as the USSR, Red China, and North Korea.

You decide which has been more beneficial.

Maybe you could come down off your high horse and explain some other great examples of human achievement? Like the mass murder of the Crusades? Or the Salem Witch Trials? Or the Spanish Inquisition? Or if you'd like something a little more recent those fine Christians who consider abortion to be murder so they have murdered people who perform them? Or that fine act of protecting pedophile priests?

The problem with many alleged Christians is they are all too willing to cast the first stone when they themselves are not without sin.

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