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Guest Keith-Marshall,MO
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Guest Keith-Marshall,MO

As you know smoking bans are sweeping the nation. They are becoming rampant here in the midwest too. Does anyone have the same problem with this that I do?

What we have going on around here is not a ban buy popular vote, but bandwagon city councils passing ordinances of thier own accord. In Columbia Missouri, it was a simple 3-2 vote by the city council and that's all it took.

Free country my ass!

Gov't of all levels are free to ban smoking in Gov't buildings but to mandate a private business so that adults cannot indulge in a LEGAL activity is absurd to say the least. Some will argue "what about the employees"? What about them, no one makes them work thier. People work in dangerous occupations everyday which they are free to walk away from if they choose. They have a choice as do people who choose not to patronize an establishment that allows smoking. This is the way it should be.This is NOT the business of gov't. Let the market dictate these issues. If Joe wants to allow smoking in his bar, fine then someone can open a non-smoking bar and trust me they will if there is a market for it. How many of you know people that only smoke when they go out for a drink?

I understand that non smokers don't like it.Fine. I get it, but you have remember that these are PRIVATE establishments. If you don't like smoking, don't go to anyplace that allows it. It's that simple. These bans (at lest in this area) are now starting to hurt these business dramatically. Many are showing sales down as much as 20-30% within a few months. I hope non-smokers can appreciate the type of precendent that these laws are setting. They've banned trans fats, what's next red meat and Oreo's. Non smokers may also think, so what, it doesn't apply to me. Maybe not directlly, but as an American citizen in the psuedo land of the free you might want to re-evaluate that position because these type of bans on personal freedoms affect us all. It's only a matter of time before they come after something that you enjoy. I smoke and I'm and adult. I am fully aware of the risks as all smokers are. The fact is that I still enjoy it. When I decide to quit I want it to be MY choice, not the result of some sort of legislation. I always wear my seat belt, but don't want to be told to, I always wear my helment but I don't want to be told to. If smoking cuts my life short then I can die with the knowledge that I was allowed to lead MY life as I saw fit as opposed to that of an old man grumbling through each day in an oppressive, Gov't controlled environment. In a free country, as we like to preach to the worls that we are, you have to bee willing to put up with some things that you dont' agree with. Much like freedom of speech, the hardest speech to protect yet the most important is that which you don't agree with. I hope folks will understand that unless we as a people stand up for the rights of the individual, even if we don't agree with thier activities then we as a free nation have absolutely nothing to be proud of.Lemme know what you think while you still can.

Thanx

Keith

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As you know smoking bans are sweeping the nation. They are becoming rampant here in the midwest too. Does anyone have the same problem with this that I do?

What we have going on around here is not a ban buy popular vote, but bandwagon city councils passing ordinances of thier own accord. In Columbia Missouri, it was a simple 3-2 vote by the city council and that's all it took.

Free country my ass!

Gov't of all levels are free to ban smoking in Gov't buildings but to mandate a private business so that adults cannot indulge in a LEGAL activity is absurd to say the least. Some will argue "what about the employees"? What about them, no one makes them work thier. People work in dangerous occupations everyday which they are free to walk away from if they choose. They have a choice as do people who choose not to patronize an establishment that allows smoking. This is the way it should be.This is NOT the business of gov't. Let the market dictate these issues. If Joe wants to allow smoking in his bar, fine then someone can open a non-smoking bar and trust me they will if there is a market for it. How many of you know people that only smoke when they go out for a drink?

I understand that non smokers don't like it.Fine. I get it, but you have remember that these are PRIVATE establishments. If you don't like smoking, don't go to anyplace that allows it. It's that simple. These bans (at lest in this area) are now starting to hurt these business dramatically. Many are showing sales down as much as 20-30% within a few months. I hope non-smokers can appreciate the type of precendent that these laws are setting. They've banned trans fats, what's next red meat and Oreo's. Non smokers may also think, so what, it doesn't apply to me. Maybe not directlly, but as an American citizen in the psuedo land of the free you might want to re-evaluate that position because these type of bans on personal freedoms affect us all. It's only a matter of time before they come after something that you enjoy. I smoke and I'm and adult. I am fully aware of the risks as all smokers are. The fact is that I still enjoy it. When I decide to quit I want it to be MY choice, not the result of some sort of legislation. I always wear my seat belt, but don't want to be told to, I always wear my helment but I don't want to be told to. If smoking cuts my life short then I can die with the knowledge that I was allowed to lead MY life as I saw fit as opposed to that of an old man grumbling through each day in an oppressive, Gov't controlled environment. In a free country, as we like to preach to the worls that we are, you have to bee willing to put up with some things that you dont' agree with. Much like freedom of speech, the hardest speech to protect yet the most important is that which you don't agree with. I hope folks will understand that unless we as a people stand up for the rights of the individual, even if we don't agree with thier activities then we as a free nation have absolutely nothing to be proud of.Lemme know what you think while you still can.

Thanx

Keith

I somewhat agree with you on this, however I have been open minded since all this starting taking place. I live in South NJ (originally from Kearny), and have been a smoker for at least the last 25 years. I am an adult who obeys the laws, pays my taxes, and vote when and if I choose. I can understand the making smoke free buildings, and the challenges of second hand smoke, it is going to far.

I work in a building, that supplies products to the government, and as of Jan.1, we are not even allowed to go outside of the building to smoke... We have to literally get in our cars and drive off the property to smoke... We have been threatened to be fired if caught smoking on the property and in our cars... Next I am waiting for them to tell us we will be fired if we get into our cars and leave for a smoke break... This is getting ridiculous, but how do we get around it?? Free country my butt... it's like we are living in a communist country, because there is literally nothing we can do.... I would be interested to see how many others have comments to this post. any ideas would be welcomed, I'm sure

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Guest SHAME SHAME SHAME
As you know smoking bans are sweeping the nation. They are becoming rampant here in the midwest too. Does anyone have the same problem with this that I do?

What we have going on around here is not a ban buy popular vote, but bandwagon city councils passing ordinances of thier own accord. In Columbia Missouri, it was a simple 3-2 vote by the city council and that's all it took.

Free country my ass!

Gov't of all levels are free to ban smoking in Gov't buildings but to mandate a private business so that adults cannot indulge in a LEGAL activity is absurd to say the least. Some will argue "what about the employees"? What about them, no one makes them work thier. People work in dangerous occupations everyday which they are free to walk away from if they choose. They have a choice as do people who choose not to patronize an establishment that allows smoking. This is the way it should be.This is NOT the business of gov't. Let the market dictate these issues. If Joe wants to allow smoking in his bar, fine then someone can open a non-smoking bar and trust me they will if there is a market for it. How many of you know people that only smoke when they go out for a drink?

I understand that non smokers don't like it.Fine. I get it, but you have remember that these are PRIVATE establishments. If you don't like smoking, don't go to anyplace that allows it. It's that simple. These bans (at lest in this area) are now starting to hurt these business dramatically. Many are showing sales down as much as 20-30% within a few months. I hope non-smokers can appreciate the type of precendent that these laws are setting. They've banned trans fats, what's next red meat and Oreo's. Non smokers may also think, so what, it doesn't apply to me. Maybe not directlly, but as an American citizen in the psuedo land of the free you might want to re-evaluate that position because these type of bans on personal freedoms affect us all. It's only a matter of time before they come after something that you enjoy. I smoke and I'm and adult. I am fully aware of the risks as all smokers are. The fact is that I still enjoy it. When I decide to quit I want it to be MY choice, not the result of some sort of legislation. I always wear my seat belt, but don't want to be told to, I always wear my helment but I don't want to be told to. If smoking cuts my life short then I can die with the knowledge that I was allowed to lead MY life as I saw fit as opposed to that of an old man grumbling through each day in an oppressive, Gov't controlled environment. In a free country, as we like to preach to the worls that we are, you have to bee willing to put up with some things that you dont' agree with. Much like freedom of speech, the hardest speech to protect yet the most important is that which you don't agree with. I hope folks will understand that unless we as a people stand up for the rights of the individual, even if we don't agree with thier activities then we as a free nation have absolutely nothing to be proud of.Lemme know what you think while you still can.

Thanx

Keith

:unsure: THE NEW LAWS ARE THE BEST THING TO HIT KEARNY! well paul and matt could move! and striffe could find GOD . also g/s/u/f/c could find GOD TOO. :wub::wub::wub:
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As you know smoking bans are sweeping the nation. They are becoming rampant here in the midwest too. Does anyone have the same problem with this that I do?

What we have going on around here is not a ban buy popular vote, but bandwagon city councils passing ordinances of thier own accord. In Columbia Missouri, it was a simple 3-2 vote by the city council and that's all it took.

Free country my ass!

Gov't of all levels are free to ban smoking in Gov't buildings but to mandate a private business so that adults cannot indulge in a LEGAL activity is absurd to say the least. Some will argue "what about the employees"? What about them, no one makes them work thier. People work in dangerous occupations everyday which they are free to walk away from if they choose. They have a choice as do people who choose not to patronize an establishment that allows smoking. This is the way it should be.This is NOT the business of gov't. Let the market dictate these issues. If Joe wants to allow smoking in his bar, fine then someone can open a non-smoking bar and trust me they will if there is a market for it. How many of you know people that only smoke when they go out for a drink?

I understand that non smokers don't like it.Fine. I get it, but you have remember that these are PRIVATE establishments. If you don't like smoking, don't go to anyplace that allows it. It's that simple. These bans (at lest in this area) are now starting to hurt these business dramatically. Many are showing sales down as much as 20-30% within a few months. I hope non-smokers can appreciate the type of precendent that these laws are setting. They've banned trans fats, what's next red meat and Oreo's. Non smokers may also think, so what, it doesn't apply to me. Maybe not directlly, but as an American citizen in the psuedo land of the free you might want to re-evaluate that position because these type of bans on personal freedoms affect us all. It's only a matter of time before they come after something that you enjoy. I smoke and I'm and adult. I am fully aware of the risks as all smokers are. The fact is that I still enjoy it. When I decide to quit I want it to be MY choice, not the result of some sort of legislation. I always wear my seat belt, but don't want to be told to, I always wear my helment but I don't want to be told to. If smoking cuts my life short then I can die with the knowledge that I was allowed to lead MY life as I saw fit as opposed to that of an old man grumbling through each day in an oppressive, Gov't controlled environment. In a free country, as we like to preach to the worls that we are, you have to bee willing to put up with some things that you dont' agree with. Much like freedom of speech, the hardest speech to protect yet the most important is that which you don't agree with. I hope folks will understand that unless we as a people stand up for the rights of the individual, even if we don't agree with thier activities then we as a free nation have absolutely nothing to be proud of.Lemme know what you think while you still can.

Thanx

Keith

It's simple. Smokers infringe on non-smokers rights to have smoke free air. And I challenge your statistics. Places to eat, bars, and bowling alleys are the main places that theses bans were suppose to have a negative effect on. Guess what, there doing as well or better than they were before the ban.

Smokers wouldn't learn. Smoke someplace where it only affects you, not in public places.

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Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo
It's simple.  Smokers infringe on non-smokers rights to have smoke free air.  And I challenge your statistics.  Places to eat, bars, and bowling alleys are the main places that theses bans were suppose to have a negative effect on.  Guess what, there doing as well or better than they were before the ban.

Smokers wouldn't learn.  Smoke someplace where it only affects you, not in public places.

Well. you are wrong. These are PRIVATE establishments that should have the right to determine this on thier own. Non-Smokers infringe on the rights of smokers to partake in a quasi-legal activity. If you don't like smoking, do go to PRIVATE extablishments where smoking is allowed. You can be a flippant as you want but this is where it starts and it's all down hill from here. When they start infringing on your right to do something, don't expect the rest of us to lift one finger to help!

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:unsure: THE NEW LAWS ARE THE BEST THING TO HIT KEARNY!

(Funny that this emphatic statement is preceded by the "unsure" smiley)

Explain why.

well paul and matt could move!

What in the world do they have to do with this at all?

and striffe could find GOD . also g/s/u/f/c could find GOD TOO.  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:

I can't find "GOD" because people like you made him up. Not going to waste my time looking for the Easter bunny either. :P

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Guest Keith-Marshall,MO
My opinion, since it's been shown that second-hand smoke is indeed harmful, is that smoking should be banned in public places, and be left to the decision of whoever owns a given business or home to decide on smoking within it. It's dumb to force a business owner to forbid smoking in his/her establishment.

Thank you Strife, that's all we ask only now in our "Police States" we are being turned into criminals.

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Guest Keith-Marshall.MO
Dang, is Kearny, NJ the closest place to where you live that has a forum??????

No, but I already know what's going on in my neck of the woods and wanted to see what was happening elsewhere. Thank you, though, for that "warmest" of welcomes. At least I say who I am and where I'm from. Maybe you could find the courage to do the same if you are going to insult people.

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Guest no strife no plane
(Funny that this emphatic statement is preceded by the "unsure" smiley)

Explain why.

What in the world do they have to do with this at all?

I can't find "GOD" because people like you made him up. Not going to waste my time looking for the Easter bunny either. :P

:wub: aw strife you need a big hug :wub: your id says suffering pain worry and 767 air plane so no god? hum is it anything to do with 9/11? now you think that there is no god? sorry but yes god is real just ask your mother about the day you was born! no you do not need a church to see him but look around on a starry nite{ you may need to go up north jersey where no lites are } and see the stars! or hold a new puppy and feel its love! hes there waiting for you! look at any baby and see its eyes feel its skin then know where god is! talk to him then be quiet and still very still listen he will talk to you! he owns two dates in your life that you have no say over "you can see them printed on any head stone" your D/O/B AND D/O/D the dash well thats yours! :wub::wub:

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Guest no strife no plane
(Funny that this emphatic statement is preceded by the "unsure" smiley)

Explain why.

What in the world do they have to do with this at all?

I can't find "GOD" because people like you made him up. Not going to waste my time looking for the Easter bunny either. :P

:wub: aw strife you need a big hug :wub: your id says suffering pain worry and 767 air plane so no god? hum is it anything to do with 9/11? now you think that there is no god? sorry but yes god is real just ask your mother about the day you was born! no you do not need a church to see him but look around on a starry nite{ you may need to go up north jersey where no lites are } and see the stars! or hold a new puppy and feel its love! hes there waiting for you! look at any baby and see its eyes feel its skin then know where god is! talk to him then be quiet and still very still listen he will talk to you! he owns two dates in your life that you have no say over "you can see them printed on any head stone" your D/O/B AND D/O/D the dash well thats yours! :wub::wub:

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No, but I already know what's going on in my neck of the woods and wanted to see what was happening elsewhere. Thank you, though, for that "warmest" of welcomes. At least I say who I am and where I'm from. Maybe you could find the courage to do the same if you are going to insult people.

Sorry don't judge all of us. People just like to be rude. I am a fomer smoker and I can support smoking bans in work places, but not so in private establishments. As far as employee. they should know the risk before taking the position. Sorry if you got a bad impression.

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Guest Storm Trooper
I somewhat agree with you on this, however I have been open minded since all this starting taking place.  I live in South NJ (originally from Kearny), and have been a smoker for at least the last 25 years.  I am an adult who obeys the laws, pays my taxes, and vote when and if I choose.  I can understand the making smoke free buildings, and the challenges of second hand smoke, it is going to far. 

I work in a building, that supplies products to the government, and as of Jan.1, we are not even allowed to go outside of the building to smoke...  We have to literally get in our cars and drive off the property to smoke... We have been threatened to be fired if caught smoking on the property and in our cars... Next I am waiting for them to tell us we will be fired if we get into our cars and leave for a smoke break... This is getting ridiculous, but how do we get around it??  Free country my butt... it's like we are living in a communist country, because there is literally nothing we can do....  I would be interested to see how many others have comments to this post.  any ideas would be welcomed, I'm sure

I think smokers should be ordered to stop smoking immediately, if they refuse then they're thrown in prison for 5 years. When they get out, if they start again they get 10 years. Offend again, you get life.

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(Funny that this emphatic statement is preceded by the "unsure" smiley)

Explain why.

What in the world do they have to do with this at all?

I can't find "GOD" because people like you made him up. Not going to waste my time looking for the Easter bunny either. :wub:

:wub: You are so sad. God made us up.

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Well. you are wrong. These are PRIVATE establishments that should have the right to determine this on thier own. Non-Smokers infringe on the rights of smokers to partake in a quasi-legal activity. If you don't like smoking, do go to PRIVATE extablishments where smoking is allowed. You can be a flippant as you want but this is where it starts and it's all down hill from here. When they start infringing on your right to do something, don't expect the rest of us to lift one finger to help!

They are private establishments that cater to the public. Smokers can't control themselves so the government has to step in. The same way that the government controls how much booze (also a legal activity) a person can drink in a private establishment. If they get to loaded, the establishment is liable.

Maybe you'd prefer that non-smokers start suing these establishments. All that is being asked is that you control your behavior when it affects others. You couldn't do it so the government has to hold your hand.

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I think smokers should be ordered to stop smoking immediately, if they refuse then they're thrown in prison for 5 years. When they get out, if they start again they get 10 years. Offend again, you get life.

HOW DARE YOU... WE LIVE IN A "FREE"COUNTRY. ISN'T IT AMAZING, HOW WE HAVE AND LET SO MANY ILLEGALS IN HERE, AND YET THEY TAKE ALL OUR RIGHTS AWAY. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THESE IMMIGRANTS, SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW THAT WE SHOULD'NT EVER BE ORDERED TO DO ANYTHING WE DON'T WANT TO. GET OFF THIS SIGHT... YOU MAKE ME SICK.

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They are private establishments that cater to the public.  Smokers can't control themselves so the government has to step in.  The same way that the government controls how much booze (also a legal activity) a person can drink in a private establishment.  If they get to loaded, the establishment is liable.

Maybe you'd prefer that non-smokers start suing these establishments.  All that is being asked is that you control your behavior when it affects others.  You couldn't do it so the government has to hold your hand.

Start Suing? see that's the problem. No one told them they have to go to a place where smoking is allowed.You don't like what goes on in a strip bar? Don't go there. It's that simple. Plenty of places ban smoking with no need for MORE LAWS! Just I because Also equating this with drunk driving is an idiotic parallel.

Let me ask you a question, where do YOU draw the line at the Gov't holding your hand? Doesn't anybody see what's going on here?

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Guest worried about strife
I'm sad? But you're the one posting the sad face. :P

Before you can hypothesize that "God" DID anything, you'd have to prove that this "God" exists, naturally. Can you?

:rolleyes: strife yes i can prove it! but do you realy want to know or are you all lipservice? you almost have 550 posts on this site if you spent 1/4 the time looking for god you would know the truth! i can post about this anywhere i want on this fourm and it will still be you im talking to nobody else :P i know a person who will talk with you face to face about this all you need do is ask! oh have a open mind too. a" BIG" problem is in your life and you are using this fourm to handle it but its not working is it? im not making fun of you im for real wanting to help! if god is not real why is he wanting me to work with you! just ask! be real about wanting to know and i will help you. :wub:

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I'm sad? But you're the one posting the sad face. :P

Before you can hypothesize that "God" DID anything, you'd have to prove that this "God" exists, naturally. Can you?

:rolleyes: yes strife i can prove it to you if you realy want to know :P just ask and be real about it! you have posted well over 500 times in 3 months that shows you have a BIG problem in your life! your posting name says it too! yes a person in kearny can show you and wants too! im only posting this because i care about you and would like to help! open your mind and hart and be real then ask!! :wub:

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