Guest Conservative Christian Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Will Kearny recognize Christmas this year or will we have a "Holiday Tree" again. I wish the mayor and council would act like Americans and recognize the federal holiday known as Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Will Kearny recognize Christmas this year or will we have a "Holiday Tree" again. I wish the mayor and council would act like Americans and recognize the federal holiday known as Christmas. And most of us wish you would grow up and stop trying to force your way of doing things and naming things on everyone else. Kearny can have a tree, so long as it doesn't make it part of a display that favors Christianity over other religious belief systems. Kearny is home to people of many religious views, including humanism and atheism. Who is in the majority is completely irrelevant because religion isn't up for a vote. It's an individual right. Under our laws and our Constitution, all religions are the same. The courts have spoken very clearly on this subject, and Kearny will follow the law just like everyone else. You can't have it both ways: live in a society dedicated to freedom for everyone, including religious freedom, and also give your religion special status under the law. The mere fact that our country has a history of hypocrisy in this area doesn't justify continuing the hypocrisy, any more than we can justify the hypocrisy of slavery and denying women the right to vote. The problem is, you got used to special privileges for your religion; those days are over. I suggest you get used to it and stop whining that the mayor is following the law and representing all of us equally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cartesian Kearnyite Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Kearny recognizes all the holidays, including Christmas. Why wouldn't you include all Kearny residents -- Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and nonbelievers -- in the celebrations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Will Kearny recognize Christmas this year or will we have a "Holiday Tree" again. I wish the mayor and council would act like Americans and recognize the federal holiday known as Christmas. We'll have a holiday tree so everyone can be included in the celebration. That is the way government is supposed to do it. You can call it a Christmas tree and no one is stopping you from going to church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Will Kearny recognize Christmas this year or will we have a "Holiday Tree" again. I wish the mayor and council would act like Americans and recognize the federal holiday known as Christmas. We'll have a holiday tree so everyone can be included in the celebration. That is the way government is supposed to do it. You can call it a Christmas tree and no one is stopping you from going to church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Kearny will have hundreds, maybe thousands of Christmas trees. Why do you insist on having one on Town property? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Will Kearny recognize Christmas this year or will we have a "Holiday Tree" again. I wish the mayor and council would act like Americans and recognize the federal holiday known as Christmas. You have a peculiar idea of what being an American means. Our country was founded on a principle of liberty and justice for all. For a long time, we didn't act that way. Calling it a holiday tree is a way of respecting and including everyone. That's the meaning of the American ideal that has inspired the whole world. You also have a peculiar idea of what a conservative is. A conservative believes in limited government, not a government that forces its way into religion. Asking the Town of Kearny to take sides on religion is not conservative at all. "Holiday tree" is exactly the right thing to call it. It's a tree for the holidays, no matter how you celebrate them. That is true conservatism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 If "Conservative Christian" was really a conservative, he wouldn't be asking government to get involved in religion. He would recognize that government has a limited role, and no role in promoting a particular religious view, whether it be Christianity or any other. And he's not much of a Christian either. Jesus said to treat everyone as you would like to be treated. "Conservative Christian" should call himself "Right Wing Hypocrite." That's the name that best fits his behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kearny Christian Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 And most of us wish you would grow up and stop trying to force your way of doing things and naming things on everyone else. Kearny can have a tree, so long as it doesn't make it part of a display that favors Christianity over other religious belief systems. Kearny is home to people of many religious views, including humanism and atheism. Who is in the majority is completely irrelevant because religion isn't up for a vote. It's an individual right. Under our laws and our Constitution, all religions are the same. The courts have spoken very clearly on this subject, and Kearny will follow the law just like everyone else. You can't have it both ways: live in a society dedicated to freedom for everyone, including religious freedom, and also give your religion special status under the law. The mere fact that our country has a history of hypocrisy in this area doesn't justify continuing the hypocrisy, any more than we can justify the hypocrisy of slavery and denying women the right to vote. The problem is, you got used to special privileges for your religion; those days are over. I suggest you get used to it and stop whining that the mayor is following the law and representing all of us equally. Spoken like a true socialist moron. There's no federal holiday called "Holiday". However there is a federal holiday called "Christmas", recognizing the birth of Christ. Even the socialist occuping the white house understands the distinction. Apparently the socialists in Kearny town hall can't grasp this concept. occuping the white house recognizes this. The socialists in the Kearny town hall apparently can't grasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Spoken like a true socialist moron. There's no federal holiday called "Holiday". However there is a federal holiday called "Christmas", recognizing the birth of Christ. Even the socialist occuping the white house understands the distinction. Apparently the socialists in Kearny town hall can't grasp this concept. occuping the white house recognizes this. The socialists in the Kearny town hall apparently can't grasp We get what you're trying to do, we just don't agree with it. What we grasp is the hypocrisy of making one religion's high holy day a national holiday, and how you insist on dividing our country to promote your religion over everyone else's. It's not the first act of hypocrisy in our country's history. Think of slavery and genocide against the Native American peoples, whose land we stole. Pointing it out isn't bashing our country, it's just telling the truth about our history, which has some very black stains on it. Most people don't mind getting December 25 off, especially since members of other religious traditions also have their holidays recognized. It's mainly a matter of convenience but that doesn't mean that government shouldn't be inclusive about the year-end holidays, because that's what they are. It may be Christmas to you but for Jews it's Chanukah, for Humanists it's solstice, etc. One day you who call yourselves Christians won't be in the majority any more. Fortunately for you, the majority may treat you better than you've treated others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Spoken like a true socialist moron. There's no federal holiday called "Holiday". However there is a federal holiday called "Christmas", recognizing the birth of Christ. Even the socialist occuping the white house understands the distinction. Apparently the socialists in Kearny town hall can't grasp this concept. occuping the white house recognizes this. The socialists in the Kearny town hall apparently can't grasp Socialism is an economic system, you idiot. You're just about the last person to be calling someone else a moron. You can't even post properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Spoken like a true socialist moron. There's no federal holiday called "Holiday". However there is a federal holiday called "Christmas", recognizing the birth of Christ. Even the socialist occuping the white house understands the distinction. Apparently the socialists in Kearny town hall can't grasp this concept. occuping the white house recognizes this. The socialists in the Kearny town hall apparently can't grasp What on earth does Christmas have to do with socialism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kearny Christian Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Kudos to the Mayor of Robbinsville for his decision to display a Christmas Tree and not a phony holiday tree. The interview was shown on FOX NEWS, I'm sure the leftist media ignored the story. The Mayor stated "this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and we honor that heritage by recognizing the federal holiday of Christmas". Apparently the Kearny mayor doesn't share the pride the Robbinsville mayor has for our country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Of the ten federal holidays, only Christmas Day is explicitly religious. When our country was founded, nearly everyone was a Christian, including the Catholics. Despite that, December 25 did not become a federal holiday until 1870. In fact, Congress was in session on December 25, 1789. So if you want to talk about original intent, you lose. Whatever our history, the United States is a nation of many religious practices and points of view, including Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Humanism, atheism and many others. Calling the tree a holiday tree is a way of respecting and including everyone. It doesn't hurt you a bit, unless you think everyone else should be forced to participate in your religion. That's not socialism. (You use that word a lot, so it probably doesn't mean what you think it means.) It's good manners, and it's necessary in a nation truly committed to religious liberty and equality FOR ALL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Spoken like a true socialist moron. There's no federal holiday called "Holiday". However there is a federal holiday called "Christmas", recognizing the birth of Christ. Even the socialist occuping the white house understands the distinction. Apparently the socialists in Kearny town hall can't grasp this concept. occuping the white house recognizes this. The socialists in the Kearny town hall apparently can't grasp Read the Constitution.. Specifically the First Amendment. If Kearny DID rename it a "Christmas Tree" they would open themselves up to Litigation from the ACLU. Unless of course you dont MIND the thought of your Tax Dollars (If you actually pay any) going to fund more attorneys and another Lawsuit instead of covering the Town's bills. An intelligent person PICKS his battles. This particular one has been fought and Lost Already, numerous times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2smart4u Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Of the ten federal holidays, only Christmas Day is explicitly religious. When our country was founded, nearly everyone was a Christian, including the Catholics. Despite that, December 25 did not become a federal holiday until 1870. In fact, Congress was in session on December 25, 1789. So if you want to talk about original intent, you lose. Whatever our history, the United States is a nation of many religious practices and points of view, including Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Humanism, atheism and many others. Calling the tree a holiday tree is a way of respecting and including everyone. It doesn't hurt you a bit, unless you think everyone else should be forced to participate in your religion. That's not socialism. (You use that word a lot, so it probably doesn't mean what you think it means.) It's good manners, and it's necessary in a nation truly committed to religious liberty and equality FOR ALL. Read the Constitution.. Specifically the First Amendment. If Kearny DID rename it a "Christmas Tree" they would open themselves up to Litigation from the ACLU. Unless of course you dont MIND the thought of your Tax Dollars (If you actually pay any) going to fund more attorneys and another Lawsuit instead of covering the Town's bills. An intelligent person PICKS his battles. This particular one has been fought and Lost Already, numerous times. I have read the Constitution, but the Constitution has nothing to do with this issue. First of all Christmas has nothing to do with religion. Christmas is a federal holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ who was a philosopher and happened to be Jewish. A Christmas tree is not a religious symbol, just as Christmas is not a religious holiday. The ACLU understands this but apparently many people in Kearny do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Kudos to the Mayor of Robbinsville for his decision to display a Christmas Tree and not a phony holiday tree. The interview was shown on FOX NEWS, I'm sure the leftist media ignored the story. The Mayor stated "this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and we honor that heritage by recognizing the federal holiday of Christmas". Apparently the Kearny mayor doesn't share the pride the Robbinsville mayor has for our country. I read about this, including the comments of Mayor Fried of Robbinsville, NJ. He does not understand the law. He said they can have a Menorah but not a Christmas tree. That is false. If they include all religions, or enough of them so that the display isn't a promotion of any particular religion, then they can display a Christmas tree, a Menorah, a solstice symbol, etc. It's only when they make the display exclusive that it violates the Constitution. In other words, you can have your display. Just stop trying to shove your religion down our throats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ????? Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Just a quick question. Is the town calling the Menorah that's being displayed at town hall a holiday candle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 I have read the Constitution, but the Constitution has nothing to do with this issue. First of all Christmas has nothing to do with religion. Christmas is a federal holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ who was a philosopher and happened to be Jewish. A Christmas tree is not a religious symbol, just as Christmas is not a religious holiday. The ACLU understands this but apparently many people in Kearny do not. You're such a liar, and a hypocrite. This is all about religion. "Put Christ back into Christmas." "Christ is the reason for the season." All your favorite slogans prove what a liar you are. If you didn't think Christmas was about religion, you wouldn't be whining about the fact that some people call it a holiday tree. "Christmas has nothing to do with religion." Yeah, right. And the Constitution has everything to do with this issue. The First Amendment, made applicable to the states and all municipalities by the Fourteenth Amendment, mandates equal protection for everyone. That means that no religion, or religious view, can be promoted over others. That is why a governmental entity cannot have just a Christmas display. They have to include everyone. That is as it should be. You lying ends exactly where your whining begins. Government can celebrate the holidays, so long as it includes everyone. You don't want everyone included. You want Christian dominance. That is why you right wingers keep insisting that the United States was founded as a Christian nation, even though our Constitution is entirely secular, by the Framers' choice, and one of our earliest treaties says explicitly that in no sense is the United States a Christian nation. You don't like that. You don't like the fact that school children aren't forced to recite prayers from a religion they don't believe in any more. You prefer the hypocrisy that we've practiced all too often. But your numbers are dwindling and ours are on the rise. Don't worry, though. We believe that you should continue to be free to worship as a Christian if you want to, even if your actions call into question whether you really care about the main teachings attributed to Jesus of Nazareth. In other words, you can call yourself a Christian even though what you really are is a hypocrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2smart4u Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 I read about this, including the comments of Mayor Fried of Robbinsville, NJ. He does not understand the law. He said they can have a Menorah but not a Christmas tree. That is false. If they include all religions, or enough of them so that the display isn't a promotion of any particular religion, then they can display a Christmas tree, a Menorah, a solstice symbol, etc. It's only when they make the display exclusive that it violates the Constitution. In other words, you can have your display. Just stop trying to shove your religion down our throats. Religion ?? What religion is represented by a Christmas Tree ?? Jesus was a philosopher and was born Jewish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 Just a quick question. Is the town calling the Menorah that's being displayed at town hall a holiday candle? Judaism has never been the dominant religion in the USA or in Kearny. That's why no one raises a fuss about the Menorah. The dominant religion is the one most likely to be abusive toward those who do not subscribe to it. However, you make an excellent point. If the town is displaying a Menorah and other symbols representing various religious points of view, then there's no reason why it can't call the tree a Christmas tree. But then if towns are going to do that, can they properly display just a tree, if virtually by definition it's a Christmas tree? These distinctions begin to sound silly when anyone tries to draw a clear line - because there isn't a clear line to draw - but they're not silly. What also isn't silly is protection of people whose religious views are not those of the majority; it's very important if we truly value liberty and justice for all. What is silly is the Christian majority whining that its accustomed dominant position isn't catered to any more; that's dangerously myopic hypocrisy. And here we are, arguing about it again because someone who calls him/herself "Kearny Christian" thinks the government should promote the Christian religion. It can't be that way if we truly value our country's most basic and most cherished ideals. Equal treatment for everyone is what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 First of all Christmas has nothing to do with religion. Christmas is a federal holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ who was a philosopher and happened to be Jewish. A Christmas tree is not a religious symbol, just as Christmas is not a religious holiday. What twisted logic! Government makes laws celebrating a distinctly Christian holiday, so that makes Christmas non-religious. Nonsense. It just means that government has crossed the line separating church and state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kearny Taxpayer Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 I am very angry over Kearny ignoring Christmas. CHRISTMAS is a FEDERAL HOLIDAY !! I am deeply offended that Kearny has decided to display a nonsensical holiday tree. And I don;t want to hear any crap about being sued, the White House displays a Christmas Tree every year. I wish the mayor would grow a pair and stand up to the idiots that somehow think it is a religious symbol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2smart4u Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 You're such a liar, and a hypocrite. This is all about religion. "Put Christ back into Christmas." "Christ is the reason for the season." All your favorite slogans prove what a liar you are. If you didn't think Christmas was about religion, you wouldn't be whining about the fact that some people call it a holiday tree. "Christmas has nothing to do with religion." Yeah, right. And the Constitution has everything to do with this issue. The First Amendment, made applicable to the states and all municipalities by the Fourteenth Amendment, mandates equal protection for everyone. That means that no religion, or religious view, can be promoted over others. That is why a governmental entity cannot have just a Christmas display. They have to include everyone. That is as it should be. You lying ends exactly where your whining begins. Government can celebrate the holidays, so long as it includes everyone. You don't want everyone included. You want Christian dominance. That is why you right wingers keep insisting that the United States was founded as a Christian nation, even though our Constitution is entirely secular, by the Framers' choice, and one of our earliest treaties says explicitly that in no sense is the United States a Christian nation. You don't like that. You don't like the fact that school children aren't forced to recite prayers from a religion they don't believe in any more. You prefer the hypocrisy that we've practiced all too often. But your numbers are dwindling and ours are on the rise. Don't worry, though. We believe that you should continue to be free to worship as a Christian if you want to, even if your actions call into question whether you really care about the main teachings attributed to Jesus of Nazareth. In other words, you can call yourself a Christian even though what you really are is a hypocrite Poor boy, you're confused. How can Christmas represent or be a religion when they don't have a church. ? Have you ever seen a Christmas church ? And since there's no such thing as a Christmas church, then "seperation of church and state" doesn't apply. I hope this isn't too much for you to comprehend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Non-gentile Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 Religion ?? What religion is represeInted by a Christmas Tree ?? Jesus was a philosopher and was born Jewish. A philosopher? You telling me Christianity is a cult that worships a philosopher? He's not the Redeemer, Savior, Son of God, etc!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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