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Religion is slowly killing this great country


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One correction in the above post. All men are not apes, only the left wing Kool-aid drinking defeatocrats are apes.  Republicans have been created by God and are endowed with a higher intelligence.

You're not only an idiot when discussing politics but also when discussing religion!

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One correction in the above post. All men are not apes, only the left wing Kool-aid drinking defeatocrats are apes.  Republicans have been created by God and are endowed with a higher intelligence.

Your statement is just one more example if the asinine drivel you continue to spout. Higher intelligence? Is that what caused acts like selling weapons to an enemy state, being such a loser you're forced to resign the presidency, lying to start a war of choice that you now have no idea how to control? It's a shame this alleged higher intelligence is at the expense of good judgement.

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Guest Wok2Moons
I'm amazed that some people are absolutely convinced that man has evolved from some lower life form without any evidence to support that position.  We know birds and mammals have evolved over the millennium, and there's evidence of  that. But man is another story, there is no evidence to support the THEORY that man has evolved from a lower life form. A "missing link" has never been found, dispite over one hundred years of serious digging around the world. Until ANY evidence is found, your arguments are hollow.

You want to speak of evidence? I am sorry, but this is the only way to respond; how dare you. How dare you. You write the word evidence so casually, and yet the path that I assume you follow is riddled with more plot holes than an episode of the Three Stooges! You want evidence of the human part of evolutionary theory? Try this. Or this. Or this. There are thousands and thousands more as technical or popularized as you wish. Okay, I want evidence that there is a God, and as Seth Mcfarlane once said, "If you say a baby's smile I'm gonna punch you right in the mouth." I want evidence of the so called fact that if you say a few magic words over a goblet of grape juice it will turn into the blood of a man who has been dead for over 2,000 years. I want to look someone in the eye and have them tell me that dinosaurs were aboard a small wooden ship 3,000 years ago that apparently also carried two of every kind of over one million types of insect that an individual man collected and managed to keep in one place during a 40 day flood without one going overboard. I want evidence that the thousands of women who were burned and killed in horrible ways for being 'witches' deserved the evil fate that they apparently met at God's hands.

And you talk of evidence? Does the phrase 'the pot calling the kettle black' mean anything to you? The next time you are in church, really taste that little cracker you are eating. Tastes an awful lot like the flesh of Jesus, doesn't it? The next time you pray, look out your bedroom window at the star twinkling back at you, and consider just how likely it is that a being of infinite power is smiling back, as he apparently is to everyone else on this earth. The next time you look at yourself in the mirror, take a second to consider the thought that this is the only life you've got, and think about what you would do differently if that is true. An average of a 70 year life isn't very much, and I'm not going to spend it bowed down to an 'almighty' figure for whom the word evidence doesn't even come close.

So look that word up in the dictionary, because the only way I can believe you knew what it meant is if you are blind. Blind to the biggest lack of evidence in the history of the world.

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Yes, religion is tearing our society apart. Which is why it's so important to defend the First Amendment.

The school board doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. But their political sense is clouding their judgement of what's right. In other words, if you want the children to learn about "Our nation of laws". Then they need to step up to defend the Constitution. Otherwise it's just corruption as usual and the children learn that cheating no matter what the form is OK. Is this the message that Kearny wants to send?

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You are however completely incorrect in your assesment that, "There are no other theories that explain life at all." Defintion of theory-a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

I think it is pretty obvious he is referring to a "theory" in a scientific context:

"In science, an explanation for some phenomenon which is based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning. In popular use, a theory is often assumed to imply mere speculation, but in science, something is not called a theory until it has been confirmed over the course of many independent experiments. Theories are more certain than hypotheses, but less certain than laws." --http://tinyurl.com/yke72o (just one example--it's #9 at the bottom (the other terms are definining specific theories))

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I'm amazed that some people are absolutely convinced that man has evolved from some lower life form without any evidence to support that position.

There is _tons_ of evidence for evolution. Just because you don't know about it (whether by accident or intentional ignorance) doesn't mean it isn't there.

there is no evidence to support the THEORY

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA201.html

that man has evolved from a lower life form. A "missing link" has never been found, dispite over one hundred years of serious digging around the world.

Absolute nonsense. I want to make this very clear. Whether you realize it or not, you are LYING. For a rudimentary introduction to the vast amount of information you are ignorant of:

http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional/part2a.html <-- "Primates" is the second heading down. Read it and learn something, if you dare.

Until ANY evidence is found, your arguments are hollow.

Talk about being "behind the times."

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no, it is the fear that's killing our country. Especially the fear of our religious rights being taken away.

Sorry, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. If you don't think a history teacher in a public school proselytizing to the point of declaring that certain people or groups of people "belong in hell" crosses that line, then I suggest you take a good, hard, long look at what you're saying before you embarass yourself any further.

Beside, since it was ever great?  If it not religious, it is land rights,  races,

It wasn't too long ago that religious nuts were quoting bible verses to promote racism and slavery. And boy, did you guys whine when the "right" to enslave people was taken away from you--many of you still do whine about it.

jealousy,

"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God" --Exodus 20:5

Are you prepared to judge your God for being jealous as well?

greed,

Kent Hovind, arguably the most (in)famous creationist around, just was found guilty on 40+ counts of tax-related crimes, including tax evasion. He's been estimated to owe in excess of $400,000 in back taxes and the like.

I'm not generalizing all religious people with Hovind--what I am saying is: if you think for one second that you can claim that being religious somehow makes one immune to greed, think again. Organized religion is almost invariably greedy--just look how tightly they cling to their (largely undeserved) tax-exempt status.

or addictions or other things I can't of.

Ran out of generalized accusations on that train of thought of yours, huh?

I bet you would like to destroy us christians to stop all religions, don't you?

No, that's just your persecution complex. Funny how people like you can feel persecuted when you're responsible for so much death and war. It sure wasn't atheists behind the Inquisition, Crusades, etc. etc.

Well, I have news for you, you are no different from the rest of world.

I believe you're the one who's presuming such a high moral ground compared to others. So callously too--you should be ashamed.

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"God" is like santa but, for adults.

Oh, and you have to die before you get your presesnts.

Religion is the worst possible thing that has happened to the America, or the world as a whole.

I agree wholeheartedly. I hope it isn't too long before the APA etc. have the guts to truly do what they've wanted to do for a while--classify fundamentalist, non-abstract belief in a God as the psychosis it is. It's textbook schizophrenia, after all.

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I love your logic !!  "Just because we have not found a missing link doesn't mean it doesn't exist" !!!  LOL !!!  That Kool-aid is warping your brain.

"Just because there is no evidence that God exists, doesn't mean he doesn't."

"Just because there is no evidence that Jesus existed, nor any that the myth of Jesus was not simply an amalgamation of a bunch of other myths from the time (to which there is plenty of evidence, especially in the absence of the former), doesn't mean that he isn't the son of God and our savior, etc. etc."

"Just because there is no evidence that the Earth is 6,000 years old nor any that the Earth existed for three days before the stars (including the one it orbits) existed as described in Genesis, DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN EXACTLY THAT WAY AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU BELONG IN HELL."

Please. Religious people _invented_ that faulty line of logic.

On the other hand, scientists _do_ have evidence--a lot of it--that show clear trends of evolution between species. You don't need every single piece of a jigsaw puzzle in place to know what it's a picture of.

However, by the same analogy, the religious insist they know what the puzzle is a picture of with no pieces--nothing but what they were told by someone who was told by someone who was told by someone who was told by someone who was told by someone who was told by someone who was told by someone who was told by someone who was told by someone who was told by someone WHO DEFINITELY SAW GOD FOR REALZ!

The level of hearsay/'gossip' present in religion wouldn't be enough to find someone guilty of the least crime in a court of law.

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Guest Aggie Nostic

Yes, the fundamentalist approach to religion really and truly is ruining this country. People like Ted Haggard and Mark Foley and James Dobson are making headway because of their faith, not because of their true personalities.

Christianity in general is really fraudulent, but I have no beef with them believing what they want to. As long they don't expect me to buy into it. But, unfortunately, just like every other religion, their "mission" is to spread the gospel and make more babies so they can brainwash them into thinking that Jesus Loves Them.

Read all about the fraud of Christianity for yourself:

http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/index.html

http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Scriptures/ww...pare/mithra.htm

http://www.geocities.com/kenandcharlene/ken.html

http://faithofyeshua.faithweb.com/index.htm

http://wblr.com/tab0/page/1djxp/Pastor_Ray...pLevelNav%253D1

Have a merry "Christmas"

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I agree wholeheartedly. I hope it isn't too long before the APA etc. have the guts to truly do what they've wanted to do for a while--classify fundamentalist, non-abstract belief in a God as the psychosis it is. It's textbook schizophrenia, after all.

Just because there are multiple voices in my head, it DOESN'T mean that one of them ISN'T God.

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Guest A. V. Blom
I agree wholeheartedly. I hope it isn't too long before the APA etc. have the guts to truly do what they've wanted to do for a while--classify fundamentalist, non-abstract belief in a God as the psychosis it is. It's textbook schizophrenia, after all.

I think Freud did something like that already, actually, by classifying organized religion under 'mass delusions'.

Of course, Freud was a hack in many occasions, but that does not mean he isn't accurate on this one.

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Yes, the fundamentalist approach to religion really and truly is ruining this country.  People like Ted Haggard and Mark Foley and James Dobson are making headway because of their faith, not because of their true personalities.

Christianity in general is really fraudulent, but I have no beef with them believing what they want to.  As long they don't expect me to buy into it.  But, unfortunately, just like every other religion, their "mission" is to spread the gospel and make more babies so they can brainwash them into thinking that Jesus Loves Them.

Read all about the fraud of Christianity for yourself:

http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/index.html

http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Scriptures/ww...pare/mithra.htm

http://www.geocities.com/kenandcharlene/ken.html

http://faithofyeshua.faithweb.com/index.htm

http://wblr.com/tab0/page/1djxp/Pastor_Ray...pLevelNav%253D1

Have a merry "Christmas"

Religion and faith in something bigger is the basis for all recovery programs and the basis for our fundamental set of morals.

Whether any religion really has it "right" is another issue entirely, but man without religion or faith is doomed.

Although look where religion has got us in the world today. Protestants hating Catholics in Ireland. Sunnis hating Shias in Iraq. Everyone hating Jews everywhere. Fundamentalist Christians spreading their venom everywhere in the USA.

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Religion and faith in something bigger is the basis for all recovery programs

False.

http://www.addictionrecoveryguide.org/trea...al_secular.html

and the basis for our fundamental set of morals.

Also false. Religions adopted moral codes of the time, not the other way around--morals as a whole precede all organized religions.

Whether any religion really has it "right" is another issue entirely, but man without religion or faith is doomed.

Uh, actually, I think it's pretty obvious that religion/faith is doing humanity a great disservice as a whole. Religious motivation has caused several magnitudes more suffering and death than non-religious motivation. I dare say faith/religion is dooming us. When you take a tally of all the killing that could have been so easily prevented if only people would stop worrying who's got the better imaginary friend--I can say with quite some confidence that humanity could do just fine without religion.

Although look where religion has got us in the world today.  Protestants hating Catholics in Ireland.  Sunnis hating Shias in Iraq.  Everyone hating Jews everywhere.  Fundamentalist Christians spreading their venom everywhere in the USA.

That's the least of it. "Hating" is bad--but it's not tangible/physical...not the way 9/11 was. Not the way the Crusades or the Inquisition were.

I dare ask--what has religion done for humanity, other than distract them from reality?

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Given a lot of people hope for a better future.

An Ethical Society

    is a community of individuals

    dedicated to making our lives and our world

        more humane, more ethical;

Dedicated to the ideal

that every human being has worth and dignity,

    and committed to a reverence for this world and all life.

Jone Johnson Lewis: 1995, 2002

Since 1988, When I first hear of a group of people that live with the idea of

I've tried to live by these ideas.

I don't need a higher power to explain why I choose to try to live a life base on Ethical principles that are share by people of many different faiths.

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Given a lot of people hope for a better future.

What? o.O How much hope has all the religiously-motivated killing (and more wars start because of religion than for any other reason) given people for a better future? Does 9/11 put a smile on your face about humanity's future?

If you're talking about a personal future, then I must say that giving people _false_ hope does no good for anyone (would you want your doctor telling you you're alright when you're in fact very sick?). In fact, people focusing too much on their faith in an afterlife is what often causes them to make such shitty decisions HERE on Earth, and many times on purpose (no one who thinks the rapture is coming in the next decade or two has any business making any long-term decisions for anyone else). And for what? For what are all of these stupid things being done? A hope? A guess?

No one knows anything with ANY level of certainty about the existence of ANY deity. But you all just gotta take a guess, don't you? And not only that, you just CAN'T RESIST looking down on others who didn't guess the same way as you, can you? And invariably, eventually, you will reach the point where you are either slaughtering the "infidels" or condoning someone else's slaughtering of them. All because of a stupid f**king guess.

Theism ultimately brings nothing but conflict to this world and its people. And with that conflict comes a loss of unity and cooperation at best, and a river of blood at worst. There is a reason that atheists are vastly underrepresented in prison populations (http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm). Just think about that for a while, would you?

I ask you theists: is it worth it? Is your apparently-uncontrollable urge to speculate beyond nature (especially when there is still so much we can learn about nature itself--when we know everything about nature, then I will be understanding of people wanting to 'go farther' in thought) worth all of this suffering?

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Guest An Ex-Minister
Given a lot of people hope for a better future.

I posted this and read the comments below it.

i agree totally that religion is the cause of lots and lots of ills. I personally am not religious at all. I like to think there is a "God" out there, but I don't worship said God, nor do I spend all my days worrying about what happens after I die.

And I certainly don't condone salughter in the name of any deity, or any of the other by-products of religious fundamentalism.

However, the question was, What was one good thing to come out of religion?

If you separate the nutjobs from the rest of humanity, you are left with quite a lot of good people who subscribe to a faith of some kind. Whatever God they pray to, they get a feeling of comfort that someone, somewhere is listening. Most will tell you that they don't get an answer, but just the act of putting their burdens somewhere else is uplifting.

I read a story about a "worry tree" where people would hang their worries outside their doors over night. In the morning the worries were blown away by the wind.

It's the same idea, only the faithful call that wind "God."

I doubt very much that "God" is as people think of It from reading the holy books. I came to the same conclusion as Strife and others did. the Bible is an acient collection of stories written by superstitious people in the Bronze Age. On the one hand the books say to value life, on the other hand God tells Moses to go out and slaughter all the men and children, but keep the virgins for yourself. (Numbers 13)

this is a sick and twisted view of a God written by superstitious people.

But people need hope. Some can find it within themselves and can bear with sickness, loss of job, marital strife, etc. Many can't, and need a "higher power" or imaginary friend, or a mySpace pen pal, or "God" to share and hang their fears upon.

so, when I said, religion have given many people a hope for a better future, I wasn't counting the fundamentalists. their view of a better future is a theocracy not unlike 1984, where Jesus is Big Brother. it's why I left the ministry.

But the vast majority of people don't feel this way, and are happy to hang their problems on a tree of religion.

I'm reminded of a line in Steven King's book "The Stand". The world is being split into camps of good and evil, and some of the characters cross the country and find a very old black woman sitting on a porch. she's the leader of the good faction. The people have a conversation, which turns to God, to which one of the men says, "But I don't believe in God." the woman replies "That's OK. You don't have to believe in God. He already believes in you."

As I've been reading and following the posts here I've seen them drift more and more apart, with more profanity creeping in, more name calling, something about Kool-Aid, the inevitable evolution vs. ID debate, and most recently veterans vs. non-veterans.

People on both sides, believers and non-believers have contributed equally to the split. it seems only that the poster Paul has tried to keep his discourse civil.

Thank you.

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It's not religion destroying this country, it's the Christian Fundamentalist Pentacolist-Baptist Hypoctires like Ted Haggard and Mark Foley and Tom Delay and George W Bush and Sam Brownback who are destroying the country.

Religion is fine, if you want to believe in something bigger than yourself, but keep that nonsense out of the mainstream.

Who elected these bozos to public office?

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I posted this and read the comments below it.

i agree totally that religion is the cause of lots and lots of ills.  I personally am not religious at all.  I like to think there is a "God" out there, but I don't worship said God, nor do I spend all my days worrying about what happens after I die.

And I certainly don't condone salughter in the name of any deity, or any of the other by-products of religious fundamentalism.

However, the question was, What was one good thing to come out of religion?

If you separate the nutjobs from the rest of humanity, you are left with quite a lot of good people who subscribe to a faith of some kind.

But that's the thing--religion didn't make those good people good people. They were already good people. I don't religion has earned any of the credit for the good people who believe in it.

Whatever God they pray to, they get a feeling of comfort that someone, somewhere is listening.  Most will tell you that they don't get an answer, but just the act of putting their burdens somewhere else is uplifting.

I read a story about a "worry tree" where people would hang their worries outside their doors over night.  In the morning the worries were blown away by the wind.

It's the same idea, only the faithful call that wind "God."

I doubt very much that "God" is as people think of It from reading the holy books.  I came to the same conclusion as Strife and others did.  the Bible is an acient collection of stories written by superstitious people in the Bronze Age.  On the one hand the books say to value life, on the other hand God tells Moses to go out and slaughter all the men and children, but keep the virgins for yourself.  (Numbers 13)

this is a sick and twisted view of a God written by superstitious people.

But people need hope.  Some can find it within themselves and can bear with sickness, loss of job, marital strife, etc.  Many can't, and need a "higher power" or imaginary friend, or a mySpace pen pal, or "God" to share and hang their fears upon.

You know what? I say nobody truly needs that--they settle for it. If only people were more caring and friendly with each other, not a single one of us would feel the need to lean on an imaginary shoulder. A real one is more comforting. :/

so, when I said, religion have given many people a hope for a better future, I wasn't counting the fundamentalists.  their view of a better future is a theocracy not unlike 1984, where Jesus is Big Brother.  it's why I left the ministry.

But the vast majority of people don't feel this way, and are happy to hang their problems on a tree of religion.

I'm reminded of a line in Steven King's book "The Stand".  The world is being split into camps of good and evil, and some of the characters cross the country and find a very old black woman sitting on a porch.  she's the leader of the good faction.  The people have a conversation, which turns to God, to which one of the men says, "But I don't believe in God."  the woman replies  "That's OK.  You don't have to believe in God.  He already believes in you."

As I've been reading and following the posts here I've seen them drift more and more apart, with more profanity creeping in, more name calling, something about Kool-Aid, the inevitable evolution vs. ID debate, and most recently veterans vs. non-veterans.

People on both sides, believers and non-believers have contributed equally to the split.  it seems only that the poster Paul has tried to keep his discourse civil.

Thank you.

It is difficult not to feel outraged at people contending that they have the right to impose their faith on others. I believe the anger that's made itself apparent in my posts is merited. How can I not be outraged when I see people preaching to kids in public school, arrogantly and ignorantly declaring that evolution is a lie, trying to indoctrinate others with attempts at rewriting history so that they can try to make their faith seem more foundational and inherent than it really is, to name a few of the ways these people have been trampling on the Constitution and the values this country was ACTUALLY founded upon?

Civility has been tried...but these people do not know how to leave well-enough alone. Instead of being happy that they live in a country that legally protects their freedom to worship, they want to convert everyone. That is disrespectful and condescending, and damned right I am outraged. They have crossed the line far too many times, often with as much of a cavalier attitude as Mr. P. did here in this issue. Read that article in The Observer and try to argue that he gives a damn about what he's done. He doesn't care. The rational people, and those willing to defend the Constitution, need to make people like him care. We have to put people like this in their place and remind them that their rights do not extend past the point where others' rights begin! If no one ever pushes back, this country will become a theocracy in my lifetime.

Well, sometimes you need to get angry. Sometimes you need to get indignant. And sometimes, you need to push back. I will not stand for this, and that does not mean I have "contributed equally to the split." It means I'm patriotic, and am willing to defend that which those people insist on continually attacking--if we stop defending, they will gleefully reshape this country as they see fit...and I guarantee you they are not as big on freedom as the founding fathers were.

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Guest 2smart4u
But that's the thing--religion didn't make those good people good people. They were already good people. I don't religion has earned any of the credit for the good people who believe in it.

You know what? I say nobody truly needs that--they settle for it. If only people were more caring and friendly with each other, not a single one of us would feel the need to lean on an imaginary shoulder. A real one is more comforting. :/

It is difficult not to feel outraged at people contending that they have the right to impose their faith on others. I believe the anger that's made itself apparent in my posts is merited. How can I not be outraged when I see people preaching to kids in public school, arrogantly and ignorantly declaring that evolution is a lie, trying to indoctrinate others with attempts at rewriting history so that they can try to make their faith seem more foundational and inherent than it really is, to name a few of the ways these people have been trampling on the Constitution and the values this country was ACTUALLY founded upon?

Civility has been tried...but these people do not know how to leave well-enough alone. Instead of being happy that they live in a country that legally protects their freedom to worship, they want to convert everyone. That is disrespectful and condescending, and damned right I am outraged. They have crossed the line far too many times, often with as much of a cavalier attitude as Mr. P. did here in this issue. Read that article in The Observer and try to argue that he gives a damn about what he's done. He doesn't care. The rational people, and those willing to defend the Constitution, need to make people like him care. We have to put people like this in their place and remind them that their rights do not extend past the point where others' rights begin! If no one ever pushes back, this country will become a theocracy in my lifetime.

Well, sometimes you need to get angry. Sometimes you need to get indignant. And sometimes, you need to push back. I will not stand for this, and that does not mean I have "contributed equally to the split." It means I'm patriotic, and am willing to defend that which those people insist on continually attacking--if we stop defending, they will gleefully reshape this country as they see fit...and I guarantee you they are not as big on freedom as the founding fathers were.

Strife, just curious .......Have you ever been diagnosed with an obsessive- compulsive disorder ??

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