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Any more layoff talks?


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That's a long rant. How much does the Kearny taxpayer pay you for your salary and benefits?

Not a penny of tax payer money pays for my salary and benefits. However I am glad to have my tax dollars pay to ensure i have the services of police and fire if i ever need them. Other wise I shoul just pay Jersey City or Newark to take care of ensuring my safety.

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You think that's a win for the municipality? Looks to me like they firefighters will get a pension of $90K if they retired today with 30 years of service. Any NJ firefighter would sign that deal in a second. They average about $60K. Jersey's pension system is in bad shape due to the politicians stealing $ from it & not paying their pension payments for 12 years,but it's nowhere near the desperate situation California's in. No wonder when their pensioning out Firefighters at that rate!!

30 years of service is 70% of their base salary as a pension. NO unranked Firefighter will be making a $90,000 pension. If their base was $90K then their pension would be $63K. same with the police Dept. The Police and Fire pension System pays 65% for 25 years of service, and 70% for 30 years of service, calculated off of the BASE salary. Overtime and other extra income is not calculated as part of the pension. it's all available through google. http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/pensions/epbam/exhibits/handbook/pfrsbook.pdf

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Come on people, lets think about this. The town wants the unions to give back everything they can get and use the economy and the state as its excuse. They will still layoff police fire, and other town workers. They do this knowing overtime is going to go through the roof, but they do not care about the overtime, they want to save money on the health care costs of covering these employees. As someone who works for one of the largest P.D.'s in the state, i can tell you laying off 5 officers in a department with like 110, will have an impact on service. Having extra officers allows them to be proactive, work in specialized units and task forces to enforce certain laws that the public might not even notice is going on. My department is so busy with going call to call, it makes the battle of catching the criminals before the crime almost impossible. I moved to kearny to get away from that, but i assure you, when you run with the bare minimum, things suffer. The guy who is in town only to rob people, now does not get caught looking in and out of alleyways because the only police working will be handling the blocked driveway calls and other calls that come in throughout the day. And as someone with 18years experience, i can tell you, you are out of your mind if you think you will get the same "new cop" aggressiveness from demoted bosses that are now patrolmen. But hey if it saves $500,000 to the town, im sure my taxes will go down right? Or better yet, it will probably save me $20.00 in an increase next year .

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Come on people, lets think about this. The town wants the unions to give back everything they can get and use the economy and the state as its excuse. They will still layoff police fire, and other town workers. They do this knowing overtime is going to go through the roof, but they do not care about the overtime, they want to save money on the health care costs of covering these employees. As someone who works for one of the largest P.D.'s in the state, i can tell you laying off 5 officers in a department with like 110, will have an impact on service. Having extra officers allows them to be proactive, work in specialized units and task forces to enforce certain laws that the public might not even notice is going on. My department is so busy with going call to call, it makes the battle of catching the criminals before the crime almost impossible. I moved to kearny to get away from that, but i assure you, when you run with the bare minimum, things suffer. The guy who is in town only to rob people, now does not get caught looking in and out of alleyways because the only police working will be handling the blocked driveway calls and other calls that come in throughout the day. And as someone with 18years experience, i can tell you, you are out of your mind if you think you will get the same "new cop" aggressiveness from demoted bosses that are now patrolmen. But hey if it saves $500,000 to the town, im sure my taxes will go down right? Or better yet, it will probably save me $20.00 in an increase next year .

You are absolutely correct. Look at the Fair Lawn P.D They layed off 5 and the town is losing money from it because it causes overtime everyday and they are still running at a minimum! Taxes stay the same and the protection is down. And you dont think the gangs in paterson dont know that? They are going to take over Fair Lawn before you know it and thats what will happen here in Kearny with the gangs form Newark! And the last time the K.F.D went down to 15 men on duty a woman died on Elm street because the first due ladder was out of service and they couldnt get to her. If they lay off 5 fire fighters they are going back to 15. And this time there isnt any mutual aid to get because every other town has cut back. These are the things the politicians dont tell you.

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Not a penny of tax payer money pays for my salary and benefits. However I am glad to have my tax dollars pay to ensure i have the services of police and fire if i ever need them. Other wise I shoul just pay Jersey City or Newark to take care of ensuring my safety.

Then you should have no problem coming to a Council meeting and arguing your case in public.

(That's my way of saying, 'I don't believe you for one second'.)

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Guest Reality Man

Not sure how this applies to the post that you replied to, at all. FACT: We will all pay more for less, services WILL be compromised. My problem is not necessarily that the Mayor is looking to cut, it's his failure to admit that when you offer less for the same price (in this case more), then that equates to a tax increase.

I saw something recently where the gangs in Newark are wearing their respective colors with the impending date of the layoffs printed on their attire. Why do you imagine that is, and we should all hope that when the PD is reduced, this little war stays in Newark. It is certainly not something I'm comfortable with, and you know what else . . . . . . . . I hope to GOD I'm WRONG.

Where have you been the past year? Painful cuts and high taxes is the REALITY of New Jersey now. This is from today's Bergen Record:

The typical North Jersey homeowner will pay about $375 more in property taxes over the next year — and will get less for the money in many cases, as communities scale back services. Residents are shouldering a larger share of the cost to run schools and local and county governments, due to a significant drop in state aid and other revenue, officials said. At the same time, many communities have laid off employees, instituted hiring freezes or cut programs. "It's a double whammy," said William Dressel, executive director of the New Jersey State League of Municipalities.

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30 years of service is 70% of their base salary as a pension. NO unranked Firefighter will be making a $90,000 pension. If their base was $90K then their pension would be $63K. same with the police Dept. The Police and Fire pension System pays 65% for 25 years of service, and 70% for 30 years of service, calculated off of the BASE salary. Overtime and other extra income is not calculated as part of the pension. it's all available through google. http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/pensions/epbam/exhibits/handbook/pfrsbook.pdf

That's how it's done in NJ, I agree. The Article says"

The firefighters have agreed to change their pension benefit to allow them to retire at age 55 with 3 percent of their final year's salary multiplied by their years of service. Currently, firefighters and police can retire at 50 and receive the same percentage."

So if their final salary is $100,000.00 3% of that is $3,000.00 X 30 years is $90,000.00. Am I missing something here?

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New facts from the all mighty mayor. Now the number of layoffs are 17 police and 15 fire. And somehow the numbers given to the unions at the meeting 3 months ago have been raised by almost a million per dept. Seems we are working on a sliding scale. Both the police and fire unions have offered to work with the town but once the town realized that they changed the number. Excuse #1, Someone made a 2 million dollar error in accounting? That person should be fired and the rest of our elected officials taken out and feathered. The mayor and council has just put a price tag on your safety. Are you willing to pay that price? Per a state audit it would cost the average taxpayer less than 60 dollars in taxes to keep all police fire and town employees from being removed. If that is all why wont the mayor put it to a public vote? Dont we have the right to decide our safety. Happy Vets day to all the Vets the town is going to layoff. Great job Mr. Mayor!!!!

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[That's how it's done in NJ, I agree. The Article says"

The firefighters have agreed to change their pension benefit to allow them to retire at age 55 with 3 percent of their final year's salary multiplied by their years of service. Currently, firefighters and police can retire at 50 and receive the same percentage."

So if their final salary is $100,000.00 3% of that is $3,000.00 X 30 years is $90,000.00. Am I missing something here?

The only way that could happen is if the Firefighters were not a part of PFRS. PFRS is 65% for 25 years of service, and 70% for 30 years of service..PERIOD. I dont know what article YOU are talking about, but the pension numbers are set by Law. NOW, if the Governor gets his wish of dropping the Pension to 60/65% AND adds in his 30% contribution towards Healthcare premiums, your average Cop or Firefighter will be looking at retiring at somewheere between 45% and 50% in Reality...which means, You wont get the older guys to retire and be replaced by new blood (and lower salaries).

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The only way that could happen is if the Firefighters were not a part of PFRS. PFRS is 65% for 25 years of service, and 70% for 30 years of service..PERIOD. I dont know what article YOU are talking about, but the pension numbers are set by Law. NOW, if the Governor gets his wish of dropping the Pension to 60/65% AND adds in his 30% contribution towards Healthcare premiums, your average Cop or Firefighter will be looking at retiring at somewheere between 45% and 50% in Reality...which means, You wont get the older guys to retire and be replaced by new blood (and lower salaries).

The Article from Page 1 of this Forum. Santa Cruz, California! NOT NJ!

Here it is:

Guest*

Group: Guests Posted 28 October 2010 - 02:26 PM

Doc13mets, on 28 October 2010 - 09:07 AM, said:

http://www.firerescu...ave-city-money/

Calif. firefighters take salary, pension cuts to save city money

Firefighters sign deal for two-tiered pension plan

By J.M. Brown

The San Jose Mercury News

SANTA CRUZ, Calif. — In exchange for a two-year extension of their contract, members of the Santa Cruz Firefighters Association and a union representing fire department managers ratified an agreement Tuesday to take a 10 percent cut in their salary and benefits for the next two years and implement a two-tiered pension plan.

The Police Officers Association also ratified a deal Tuesday to increase the contribution to their pensions by 5 percent. Public safety spending makes up roughly two-thirds of the city budget, which is facing multimillion-dollar deficits several years into the future.

The city's human resources director, Lisa Sullivan, announced the deals at Tuesday's City Council meeting, saying the deal with firefighters was crafted earlier in the day and immediately voted on by members.

The deal comes less than a week before voters will weigh in on Measure H, a proposed increase in the utility users tax that will fund public safety and other city services. Among the biggest financial donors to the Measure H campaign are the police and firefighters unions.

Mayor Mike Rotkin applauded both deals, saying, "Here are some real facts on the ground that should make a difference on how you vote on Measure H." However, Sullivan said the deals, from the perspective of city negotiators, were not purposely timed to the election. She said the firefighters wanted to avoid prolonged talks over the upcoming contract expiration. The deal with police comes after months of talks with the officers union.

Outside the meeting, Fire Chief Mark Ramos said the fire department agreed to the concessions Tuesday to boost Measure H and show the public they are serious about cutting costs.

The firefighters have agreed to change their pension benefit to allow them to retire at age 55 with 3 percent of their final year's salary multiplied by their years of service. Currently, firefighters and police can retire at 50 and receive the same percentage.

There were no immediate estimates available on the savings that will result from the deal with firefighters, but Sullivan said the agreement will negate the need to bargain over contracts that would have expired in August.

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Guest USMC Veteran

New facts from the all mighty mayor. Now the number of layoffs are 17 police and 15 fire. And somehow the numbers given to the unions at the meeting 3 months ago have been raised by almost a million per dept. Seems we are working on a sliding scale. Both the police and fire unions have offered to work with the town but once the town realized that they changed the number. Excuse #1, Someone made a 2 million dollar error in accounting? That person should be fired and the rest of our elected officials taken out and feathered. The mayor and council has just put a price tag on your safety. Are you willing to pay that price? Per a state audit it would cost the average taxpayer less than 60 dollars in taxes to keep all police fire and town employees from being removed. If that is all why wont the mayor put it to a public vote? Dont we have the right to decide our safety. Happy Vets day to all the Vets the town is going to layoff. Great job Mr. Mayor!!!!

There are 12 COMBAT VETERANS out of the 15 proposed lay offs for the Kearny Fire Dept. Most are married & have young children. All have left other jobs & taken pay cuts up to $50,000.00 to become a firefighter in Kearny. This is the payback they get for protecting our freedom! The Mayor & Council should be ashamed of themselves for the fiscal mismanagement that they have displayed over the past year. Where is the great surplus you bragged about? Hope you all had a great Veterans Day wondering why your employer has betrayed you!

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The Article from Page 1 of this Forum. Santa Cruz, California! NOT NJ!

Here it is:

Then why reference it at all?? it's not even Apples and Oranges, that is like comparing Apples to Marmosets. In NJ Public Pensions are governed by Law, they CANNOT be Negotiated. I'll say it again, the ONLY WAY anything like that could happen here is for the state to dissolve PFRS completely. Which may end up happening down the line somewhere, but that will take years of work to accomplish, and what will end up being brought into it will be some sort of 401-K/matching plan for new hirees. Sad part is that until the Pension Board invested a large amount of the funds in Lehman, PFRS at least was at 95% in 2004, even with at that time, 8 years of the towns having Deferred contributions. If Governor (Acting) Codey, McGreevey, Codey, and then Corzine hadnt continued the practice, even with the Lehman Hit, PFRS at least would have been in the 85% funding rate right now. PFRS at least STILL has IIRC something on the order of 76-78% funding, which acording the the Federal Govt is a rating just under "Excellent" (80%). NOW, the real tragedy is PERS. The politicians have been using that as their own personal piggybank for decades, Multiple jobs for themselves, all getting pensions, Multiple jobs for family membeers, cronies, friends, and political allies, NONE of which come with matching contributions have amounted to what is in essence, Forcible Rape of that system. The Politicians would have you believe that Police and Fire are the Problem when it comes to the Pensions, when THEY are the problem, but everyone buys their Misdirection like it was gospel. You want to know WHY Kearny is in the crisis it is?? Because the Mayor and Council have happily jumped on the Pension Deferral bandwagon, and treated the money they SHOULD have been paying into the pensions as part of the General fund..in essence, basing the Town's budget on "Borrowed" money, then crying foul when it's time to have to PAY those funds out.

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There are 12 COMBAT VETERANS out of the 15 proposed lay offs for the Kearny Fire Dept. Most are married & have young children. All have left other jobs & taken pay cuts up to $50,000.00 to become a firefighter in Kearny. This is the payback they get for protecting our freedom! The Mayor & Council should be ashamed of themselves for the fiscal mismanagement that they have displayed over the past year. Where is the great surplus you bragged about? Hope you all had a great Veterans Day wondering why your employer has betrayed you!

WOW THATS CRAZY!!! GOD BLESS OUR VETERANS!!! They can fight for our freedom but not good enough to be employed by the Town of Kearny?? I am very ashamed to be a PAYING TAX CITIZEN!!! How Dare You Mr. Mayor!!!

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So I ask once more, why was the offer from the Dept Heads Union to pay 1.75% of their salaries toward their health benefits ignored? It may have saved a job or two, and at this point, every job saved is a step in the right direction. Why are the Santo's defenders ignoring this? I'm guessing because the reason this is happening is due to Big Al's big ego. He refused to acknowledge a give back offer from one of the unions, and instead will put people out of work and cut services. He should be ashamed of himself.

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WOW THATS CRAZY!!! GOD BLESS OUR VETERANS!!! They can fight for our freedom but not good enough to be employed by the Town of Kearny?? I am very ashamed to be a PAYING TAX CITIZEN!!! How Dare You Mr. Mayor!!!

The only reason there are so many verterans being laid off is because ever since the NCAAP sued Kearny and forced them to change from a Kearny Resident list to a Hudson and Essex County resident list it has forced Kearny to essentially only hire Veterans from other towns. Veterans only need to get a 70 to be put at the top of the list. I need to get a 100 and guess what, the veteran who got a 70 that has lived his whole life in Bayonne or Jersey City or Newark gets automatically placed higher then I who have lived my whole life in Kearny. Thats just unfair. And to make matters worse unlike those residents from Bayonne, JC and Newark who can be hired in their own towns plus Kearny (and a number of other towns) I can not even get on the list to be on their hometown. How fair is that?

Time to dump Civil Service, the system is unfair. Plus the town could save a load of money!

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Then why reference it at all?? it's not even Apples and Oranges, that is like comparing Apples to Marmosets. In NJ Public Pensions are governed by Law, they CANNOT be Negotiated. I'll say it again, the ONLY WAY anything like that could happen here is for the state to dissolve PFRS completely. Which may end up happening down the line somewhere, but that will take years of work to accomplish, and what will end up being brought into it will be some sort of 401-K/matching plan for new hirees. Sad part is that until the Pension Board invested a large amount of the funds in Lehman, PFRS at least was at 95% in 2004, even with at that time, 8 years of the towns having Deferred contributions. If Governor (Acting) Codey, McGreevey, Codey, and then Corzine hadnt continued the practice, even with the Lehman Hit, PFRS at least would have been in the 85% funding rate right now. PFRS at least STILL has IIRC something on the order of 76-78% funding, which acording the the Federal Govt is a rating just under "Excellent" (80%). NOW, the real tragedy is PERS. The politicians have been using that as their own personal piggybank for decades, Multiple jobs for themselves, all getting pensions, Multiple jobs for family membeers, cronies, friends, and political allies, NONE of which come with matching contributions have amounted to what is in essence, Forcible Rape of that system. The Politicians would have you believe that Police and Fire are the Problem when it comes to the Pensions, when THEY are the problem, but everyone buys their Misdirection like it was gospel. You want to know WHY Kearny is in the crisis it is?? Because the Mayor and Council have happily jumped on the Pension Deferral bandwagon, and treated the money they SHOULD have been paying into the pensions as part of the General fund..in essence, basing the Town's budget on "Borrowed" money, then crying foul when it's time to have to PAY those funds out.

It was originally referenced to show what can happen when Unions and Municipalities work together and not against each other. Nothing more nothing less. I can't help it when other posters misread it to believe it had something directly related to NJ. I thought it was an interesting read to share.

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Pension Facts

Whitman

Over the past 25 years the State of New Jersey has struggled, under a succession of Democratic and Republican governors, to reverse a social and economic decline that, by the 1960's, had hit many Northeastern

industrial areas.

Difficult budget decisions were made, often at significant political cost. But the benefits for New Jersey residents were many. A vastly improved higher education system was developed and state aid to local public

schools surged. The environment was cleaned up. Mass transit was improved. The state's budget was balanced without gimmicks and its credit rating was triple-A.

There is a strong link between those developments and the fact that New Jersey residents today are among the best educated in the country, and rank near the top in per-capita income.

Now many of the gains made over a quarter of a century are in danger of slipping away because the current Governor, Christine Todd Whitman, has chosen to finance her political ambitions with a popular buy-now,

pay-later economic policy that will place a financial stranglehold on future generations of New Jerseyans.

This is best illustrated by Mrs. Whitman's decision to withhold billions of dollars that should be going into the public employee pension funds over the next few years, and using the bulk of that money to balance the

state budget. Then, with an audacity that dazzles her supporters and even draws grudging admiration from opponents, Mrs. Whitman smiles and characterizes the withheld funds as savings.

Of course, they are not "savings" -- not in any sense of the word. The pension obligations at some point will come due and future generations will have to meet them.

Not only will the money have to be made up, but future taxpayers will be deprived of the income that the money -- if properly invested now -- would be expected to generate.

Mrs. Whitman's pension maneuvers have not gotten a lot of publicity -- in part because the eyes of reporters and readers alike tend to glaze over when confronted with complex budget details. The changes that she

has made have been drastic. According to the New Jersey Education Association, which has filed suit against the state, the employer contributions to the pension system this year will be as much as 96 percent below

the amounts contributed in the early 1990's.

By all accounts, the employer contributions have been reduced by nearly $1 billion a year. The Whitman administration insists that this is not a problem. Needless to say, others disagree.

"There is no question but that this is creating future debt," said Richard C. Leone, a former New Jersey State Treasurer who is now the president of the Twentieth Century Fund. "This is just another way of getting

around the balanced-budget requirement, a kind of deficit spending. It is the sort of thing that comes back to haunt you."

Until the changes adopted by Mrs. Whitman, New Jersey had been very conservative in its approach to its pension obligations. For example, the state had started to pre-fund the health care benefits of its retirees,

building up reserves against post-retirement liabilities. As one state official said: "That was prudent. Health-care costs are a big problem."

Prudent or not, Mrs. Whitman scrapped the pre-funding. She used the reserves that had already built up to help balance her budget. For Christine Todd Whitman, the pension funds have become a budget-balancing

machine.

Mrs. Whitman and the long-term interests of New Jersey appear to be at odds. The Governor won election by promising tax cuts, and any further advances in her career will be powered by her ability to "deliver" on

that promise. Like most politicians, her eyes are on the short term: today's budget, tomorrow's election. It requires courage to look beyond Election Day to the long-term interests of constituents.

Young men and women who were children in New Jersey 20 or 25 years ago are benefiting from the vision and courage of the politicians in power then, politicians who were not afraid to lead. They weren't perfect

but they had a sense of responsibility toward the generations growing up behind them. It's a quality that nowadays is in extremely short supply. And not just in New Jersey.

A version of this op-ed appeared in print on February 22, 1995

Then why reference it at all?? it's not even Apples and Oranges, that is like comparing Apples to Marmosets. In NJ Public Pensions are governed by Law, they CANNOT be Negotiated. I'll say it again, the ONLY WAY anything like that could happen here is for the state to dissolve PFRS completely. Which may end up happening down the line somewhere, but that will take years of work to accomplish, and what will end up being brought into it will be some sort of 401-K/matching plan for new hirees. Sad part is that until the Pension Board invested a large amount of the funds in Lehman, PFRS at least was at 95% in 2004, even with at that time, 8 years of the towns having Deferred contributions. If Governor (Acting) Codey, McGreevey, Codey, and then Corzine hadnt continued the practice, even with the Lehman Hit, PFRS at least would have been in the 85% funding rate right now. PFRS at least STILL has IIRC something on the order of 76-78% funding, which acording the the Federal Govt is a rating just under "Excellent" (80%). NOW, the real tragedy is PERS. The politicians have been using that as their own personal piggybank for decades, Multiple jobs for themselves, all getting pensions, Multiple jobs for family membeers, cronies, friends, and political allies, NONE of which come with matching contributions have amounted to what is in essence, Forcible Rape of that system. The Politicians would have you believe that Police and Fire are the Problem when it comes to the Pensions, when THEY are the problem, but everyone buys their Misdirection like it was gospel. You want to know WHY Kearny is in the crisis it is?? Because the Mayor and Council have happily jumped on the Pension Deferral bandwagon, and treated the money they SHOULD have been paying into the pensions as part of the General fund..in essence, basing the Town's budget on "Borrowed" money, then crying foul when it's time to have to PAY those funds out.

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Guest guessterday

The only reason there are so many verterans being laid off is because ever since the NCAAP sued Kearny and forced them to change from a Kearny Resident list to a Hudson and Essex County resident list it has forced Kearny to essentially only hire Veterans from other towns. Veterans only need to get a 70 to be put at the top of the list. I need to get a 100 and guess what, the veteran who got a 70 that has lived his whole life in Bayonne or Jersey City or Newark gets automatically placed higher then I who have lived my whole life in Kearny. Thats just unfair. And to make matters worse unlike those residents from Bayonne, JC and Newark who can be hired in their own towns plus Kearny (and a number of other towns) I can not even get on the list to be on their hometown. How fair is that?

Time to dump Civil Service, the system is unfair. Plus the town could save a load of money!

Doc, that is a shame that the NAACP can run over any town and force them to hire certain groups of people because they cry "racism".. look at what is happening to the FDNY right now, sad situation.. as far as dumping civil service, I think this would be a very bad idea considering nepotism is currently through the roof and will go through the ozone layer if civil service is dumped entirely. Many changes do need to be done, but getting rid of civil service entirely is bad and your chances of getting hired will be even worse than it currently is, unless of course, you are an immediate family member to a high rank political figure, or, stuff that envelop to the point another buck can't be squeezed in and hand it over for the job... I beleive if all PD and FD applicants get a huge class action lawsuit together, state wide, maybe they can reverse the hiring methods put in place like the one you mentioned and only allow towns to hire within their own residents. And if not enough residents apply (which will never be the case), THEN go to the county list (example kearny would have to hire harrison/east newark residents even before jersey city since harrison/east newark are neighboring towns). Additionally, veterans should no way get absolute preference, maybe a few points, but not absolute (this comment can open up a big can of worms, but whatever, its the truth ...)

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I agree that Kearny should have fought that consent decree with the NAACP but they knuckled under. The way Kearny fights every matter until they break the bank of it's opponent it's ashame, I guess they knew the NAACP had more $. As far as Vereran Preference, this has been in place for many years. You could have went and served your country, you must have known that. Civil service is the only protection you would have if you were on the job! Without it the Mayor could fire the Chief & put his relative in that position for whatever salary he wanted. How would that save the town $. I agree that being a resident of Kearny that's not a Vet has a snowballs chance in hell of getting hired, but you have to implore the town to get out from under the consent decree to give yourself some sort of a chance.

The only reason there are so many verterans being laid off is because ever since the NCAAP sued Kearny and forced them to change from a Kearny Resident list to a Hudson and Essex County resident list it has forced Kearny to essentially only hire Veterans from other towns. Veterans only need to get a 70 to be put at the top of the list. I need to get a 100 and guess what, the veteran who got a 70 that has lived his whole life in Bayonne or Jersey City or Newark gets automatically placed higher then I who have lived my whole life in Kearny. Thats just unfair. And to make matters worse unlike those residents from Bayonne, JC and Newark who can be hired in their own towns plus Kearny (and a number of other towns) I can not even get on the list to be on their hometown. How fair is that?

Time to dump Civil Service, the system is unfair. Plus the town could save a load of money!

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Guest kpdpipes

The only reason there are so many verterans being laid off is because ever since the NCAAP sued Kearny and forced them to change from a Kearny Resident list to a Hudson and Essex County resident list it has forced Kearny to essentially only hire Veterans from other towns. Veterans only need to get a 70 to be put at the top of the list. I need to get a 100 and guess what, the veteran who got a 70 that has lived his whole life in Bayonne or Jersey City or Newark gets automatically placed higher then I who have lived my whole life in Kearny. Thats just unfair. And to make matters worse unlike those residents from Bayonne, JC and Newark who can be hired in their own towns plus Kearny (and a number of other towns) I can not even get on the list to be on their hometown. How fair is that?

Time to dump Civil Service, the system is unfair. Plus the town could save a load of money!

Dump Civil Service??? That's intelligent, you DO realize you are in Hudson County right?? Civil service is the only thing that KEEPS Hiring fair for the PD and FD, there's none of the Patronage, and Nepotism you see in so-called "Chief's Departments", where the tests is a formality to cover up the fact that the hirees have already been selected. By dumping Civil Service you are setting the stage to send thing sback to the stone age,and opening the door for Institutionalized Corruption. Then again "Doc" So fine Kearny dumps Civil Service, and Your uncle, or whoever your "Hook" is gets you a job on the fire Dept. problem is, a couple of years later, YOUR hook isnt around anymore, he ot she has been voted out, or retired and moved away, and now someone ELSE's Son, Nephew, cousin, Boyfriend, Ect, needs a job. Without Civil Service there is NOTHING stopping htem from kicking YOu to the curb to make room for the next favorite Son. Be careful what you wish for, you MIGHT not like what you get. As for veterans (and before you start, im NOT one, I took the test and took my chances like everyone else) THEY STEPPED UP, they put their lives on the line, they EARNED that benefit..you dont like it?? either man up and go in the Reserves or Guard, or quit your whining.

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The Harrison Fire Dept. is dying to merge with the other towns. The majority of Harrisons favorite children have more longevity than the other towns do. When terminations continue, and they will, the Harrison firemen will be that much further away from the bottom of the hires to get terminated. The other towns firemen would take the complete blow of a merger. Go merge. Better yet go VOLUNTEER buttheads.

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Dump Civil Service??? That's intelligent, you DO realize you are in Hudson County right?? Civil service is the only thing that KEEPS Hiring fair for the PD and FD, there's none of the Patronage, and Nepotism you see in so-called "Chief's Departments", where the tests is a formality to cover up the fact that the hirees have already been selected. By dumping Civil Service you are setting the stage to send thing sback to the stone age,and opening the door for Institutionalized Corruption. Then again "Doc" So fine Kearny dumps Civil Service, and Your uncle, or whoever your "Hook" is gets you a job on the fire Dept. problem is, a couple of years later, YOUR hook isnt around anymore, he ot she has been voted out, or retired and moved away, and now someone ELSE's Son, Nephew, cousin, Boyfriend, Ect, needs a job. Without Civil Service there is NOTHING stopping htem from kicking YOu to the curb to make room for the next favorite Son. Be careful what you wish for, you MIGHT not like what you get. As for veterans (and before you start, im NOT one, I took the test and took my chances like everyone else) THEY STEPPED UP, they put their lives on the line, they EARNED that benefit..you dont like it?? either man up and go in the Reserves or Guard, or quit your whining.

I have a second cousin through marriage on the KFD. That's the closest I get. Honestly I am just frustrated because the way civil service is setup to discriminates based on geography Kearny and Harrison residents. JC, Bayonne and Newark people can get hired in our town but we can't in theirs. Civil Service does offer a lot of benefits for a town I do see that. I am just very frustrated being a Kearny homeowner and someone who has lived here my whole life and have very little chance of becoming a local firefighter because I have to rank below every single veteran in all of Hudson/Essex county. Being under only Kearny veterans I could deal with.

I am not against Veterans getting additional credit for serving their country. I just believe absolute preference is a bit much. A lot of states including federal government positions award an additional 10 points to veterans which I think is extremely fair. I think that is the way it should be in NJ. Say I get a 95 and a veteran gets an 86, adjusted they would have a 96 and be ranked hire. I think that is fair, they did a great service. But a candidate that gets a 70 (and let me tell you it was a 4th grade math test) and I get a 100, chances are the guy who got a 100 might be a better candidate.

If you are a veteran and a good candidate for the job you do deserve some preference. Unfortunately there are a lot of members of our armed forces that pretty much joined because they couldn't get jobs elsewhere. I see them on FD's now and they are most certainly not dedicated.

Honestly I did not know the way preference worked until about 3 years ago. In fact until about 3 years ago I thought Kearny still had residential preference. I'm currently 28 years old. I went to college and probably should have taken the civil service test when I lived at Seton Hall durning school (I could have changed my address legally to go on South Oranges list) but I didn't, I focused on finishing school.

I've never had a desire to serve in the armed forces. I respect those that do and believe me I think they deserve bonus points for preference but not absolute.

I have chosen to serve my community in another way civilly (and don't get paid for it) unfortunately that does entitle me to any benefits for any municipal positions.

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Guest 2smart4u

The Harrison Fire Dept. is dying to merge with the other towns. The majority of Harrisons favorite children have more longevity than the other towns do. When terminations continue, and they will, the Harrison firemen will be that much further away from the bottom of the hires to get terminated. The other towns firemen would take the complete blow of a merger. Go merge. Better yet go VOLUNTEER buttheads.

Hey moron, cleanup in aisle 5, grab the mop.

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