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Any more layoff talks?


Guest Concerned Taxpayer
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Guest Concerned Taxpayer

I haven't heard any talk about the police and fire layoffs. Does anyone know if the town council has finally figured out that by removing sevices but not our tax bill, is actually a tax increas? You cant sell me a bag of chips with less and less chips and keep charging me the same. I heard the town is being audited by the state for their current claims of being broke maybe that stopped the talks for a while.

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Guest Concerned Taxpayer Too

I haven't heard any talk about the police and fire layoffs. Does anyone know if the town council has finally figured out that by removing sevices but not our tax bill, is actually a tax increas? You cant sell me a bag of chips with less and less chips and keep charging me the same. I heard the town is being audited by the state for their current claims of being broke maybe that stopped the talks for a while.

The State looked at Kearny's 2011 lay off plan and approved it. Their only comment was that it's probably not enough to finish 2011 with a balanced budget.

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According to a little bird, the PD has made an offer that would save more than the Town was asking for, and so far the town is rejecting it and will go forward with the layoffs and demotions as scheduled. Sounds like our new Town Administrator is trying to flex his muscles. So much for the mayor's Pledge to "Work with the Unions" eh???

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According to a little bird, the PD has made an offer that would save more than the Town was asking for, and so far the town is rejecting it and will go forward with the layoffs and demotions as scheduled. Sounds like our new Town Administrator is trying to flex his muscles. So much for the mayor's Pledge to "Work with the Unions" eh???

The PD made an offer that would save more then the Town was asking of all departments combined or just the PD? Just curious. I agree it's up to the Town to work with the Unions in saving money and making sure no public saftey services are cut. I already pay enough in taxes in this town and I expect the same service that I have offered to me today.

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Guest Kearny Taxpayer Too

According to a little bird, the PD has made an offer that would save more than the Town was asking for, and so far the town is rejecting it and will go forward with the layoffs and demotions as scheduled. Sounds like our new Town Administrator is trying to flex his muscles. So much for the mayor's Pledge to "Work with the Unions" eh???

Hey little bird, tell us what that offer was. I don't know of any government employees willing to give $ back, much less ones willing to give back more money than asked. I doubt that's the case.

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

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Hey little bird, tell us what that offer was. I don't know of any government employees willing to give $ back, much less ones willing to give back more money than asked. I doubt that's the case.

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

C.S.11 gave money back, and still getting furloughs.

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See how well the Mayor is willing to work "with" the Unions??

http://www.firerescue1.com/labor-issues/articles/900826-Calif-firefighters-take-salary-pension-cuts-to-save-city-money/

Calif. firefighters take salary, pension cuts to save city money

Firefighters sign deal for two-tiered pension plan

By J.M. Brown

The San Jose Mercury News

SANTA CRUZ, Calif. — In exchange for a two-year extension of their contract, members of the Santa Cruz Firefighters Association and a union representing fire department managers ratified an agreement Tuesday to take a 10 percent cut in their salary and benefits for the next two years and implement a two-tiered pension plan.

The Police Officers Association also ratified a deal Tuesday to increase the contribution to their pensions by 5 percent. Public safety spending makes up roughly two-thirds of the city budget, which is facing multimillion-dollar deficits several years into the future.

The city's human resources director, Lisa Sullivan, announced the deals at Tuesday's City Council meeting, saying the deal with firefighters was crafted earlier in the day and immediately voted on by members.

The deal comes less than a week before voters will weigh in on Measure H, a proposed increase in the utility users tax that will fund public safety and other city services. Among the biggest financial donors to the Measure H campaign are the police and firefighters unions.

Mayor Mike Rotkin applauded both deals, saying, "Here are some real facts on the ground that should make a difference on how you vote on Measure H." However, Sullivan said the deals, from the perspective of city negotiators, were not purposely timed to the election. She said the firefighters wanted to avoid prolonged talks over the upcoming contract expiration. The deal with police comes after months of talks with the officers union.

Outside the meeting, Fire Chief Mark Ramos said the fire department agreed to the concessions Tuesday to boost Measure H and show the public they are serious about cutting costs.

The firefighters have agreed to change their pension benefit to allow them to retire at age 55 with 3 percent of their final year's salary multiplied by their years of service. Currently, firefighters and police can retire at 50 and receive the same percentage.

There were no immediate estimates available on the savings that will result from the deal with firefighters, but Sullivan said the agreement will negate the need to bargain over contracts that would have expired in August.

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http://www.firerescue1.com/labor-issues/articles/900826-Calif-firefighters-take-salary-pension-cuts-to-save-city-money/

Calif. firefighters take salary, pension cuts to save city money

Firefighters sign deal for two-tiered pension plan

By J.M. Brown

The San Jose Mercury News

SANTA CRUZ, Calif. — In exchange for a two-year extension of their contract, members of the Santa Cruz Firefighters Association and a union representing fire department managers ratified an agreement Tuesday to take a 10 percent cut in their salary and benefits for the next two years and implement a two-tiered pension plan.

The Police Officers Association also ratified a deal Tuesday to increase the contribution to their pensions by 5 percent. Public safety spending makes up roughly two-thirds of the city budget, which is facing multimillion-dollar deficits several years into the future.

The city's human resources director, Lisa Sullivan, announced the deals at Tuesday's City Council meeting, saying the deal with firefighters was crafted earlier in the day and immediately voted on by members.

The deal comes less than a week before voters will weigh in on Measure H, a proposed increase in the utility users tax that will fund public safety and other city services. Among the biggest financial donors to the Measure H campaign are the police and firefighters unions.

Mayor Mike Rotkin applauded both deals, saying, "Here are some real facts on the ground that should make a difference on how you vote on Measure H." However, Sullivan said the deals, from the perspective of city negotiators, were not purposely timed to the election. She said the firefighters wanted to avoid prolonged talks over the upcoming contract expiration. The deal with police comes after months of talks with the officers union.

Outside the meeting, Fire Chief Mark Ramos said the fire department agreed to the concessions Tuesday to boost Measure H and show the public they are serious about cutting costs.

The firefighters have agreed to change their pension benefit to allow them to retire at age 55 with 3 percent of their final year's salary multiplied by their years of service. Currently, firefighters and police can retire at 50 and receive the same percentage.

There were no immediate estimates available on the savings that will result from the deal with firefighters, but Sullivan said the agreement will negate the need to bargain over contracts that would have expired in August.

Perhaps in San Jose, they don't need to fight to protect numerous and frivolous violations of their contracts. That would be nice, then maybe, just maybe an open dialogue would be useful. Unfortunately, when you can't trust those you are dealing with, most people "dig in their heels."

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How come Big Al never mentioned that the Department Heads and Supervisors union offered to pay 1.75% of their salaries toward their medical coverage for 2011 and 2012, and he never even considered it. Why? Cause it's not exactly what he asked for. So he turned down a savings for the Kearny taxpayer for no other reason except his huge ego. In retrospect, that union made out OK though, cause CS 11 gave back, just the way Big Al asked them too, and he thanked them publicly, patted them on their backs for being team players, and today, to thank them even further, he gave them all layoff notices. That's what happens when you deal with the devil. All you Santos defenders, explain why he turned down a savings offer from one of the unions. Wow, a union actually offered to pay toward their medical earlier then what was required by the state, and he turned his back. These answers shoud be interesting.

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Guest Counting chickens

Within the layoff plan is the Town's assertion that the loss of State aid made a substantial impact on the Town's budget.

So, the question is, why is the Mayor and Council depending on money that they MAY OR MAY NOT receive. No single person on the Council would operate their own household budget in such a way, (at least I hope they wouldn't), but they have no qualms of planning to use money that they haven't already received. This falls directly on the Finance Committee. I would encourage all residents to call their council person and ask these very questions. It is not their money to spend, it is ours, and the money that MIGHT come from Trenton, if in fact it comes to be, should only be used for those projects that they wanted, but couldn't afford to budget for. To include State aid in operating expenses is irresponsible, and I would argue borders on misfeasance of office.

Old adage: "Don't count your chickens, before they hatch." Boy, how true is that statement, whaddya think Al???

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Guest Better in the Know

How come Big Al never mentioned that the Department Heads and Supervisors union offered to pay 1.75% of their salaries toward their medical coverage for 2011 and 2012, and he never even considered it. Why? Cause it's not exactly what he asked for. So he turned down a savings for the Kearny taxpayer for no other reason except his huge ego. In retrospect, that union made out OK though, cause CS 11 gave back, just the way Big Al asked them too, and he thanked them publicly, patted them on their backs for being team players, and today, to thank them even further, he gave them all layoff notices. That's what happens when you deal with the devil. All you Santos defenders, explain why he turned down a savings offer from one of the unions. Wow, a union actually offered to pay toward their medical earlier then what was required by the state, and he turned his back. These answers shoud be interesting.

That 1.75% contribution by department heads and supervisors adds up to only $25,000 for the whole year for all of them combined. That's not an offer. That's either mathematical incompetence by the union or they're playing games.

Also it doesn't keep the employee pensions and base salaries from going up.

The taxpayer can't keep footing the bill under the new tax cap. All the squirelling and penny counting that "Big Al" does won't make a difference anymore.

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Within the layoff plan is the Town's assertion that the loss of State aid made a substantial impact on the Town's budget.

So, the question is, why is the Mayor and Council depending on money that they MAY OR MAY NOT receive. No single person on the Council would operate their own household budget in such a way, (at least I hope they wouldn't), but they have no qualms of planning to use money that they haven't already received. This falls directly on the Finance Committee. I would encourage all residents to call their council person and ask these very questions. It is not their money to spend, it is ours, and the money that MIGHT come from Trenton, if in fact it comes to be, should only be used for those projects that they wanted, but couldn't afford to budget for. To include State aid in operating expenses is irresponsible, and I would argue borders on misfeasance of office.

Old adage: "Don't count your chickens, before they hatch." Boy, how true is that statement, whaddya think Al???

Not sure where you're going with this. Every muncipality in the state of New Jersey includes state aid in their budget. State aid is now frozen and taxes can't be raised more than 2%.

I'd say the Mayor has counted all the chickens and all the eggs which is why the layoffs and furloughs begin at the very beginning of the new budget year, January 1.

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That 1.75% contribution by department heads and supervisors adds up to only $25,000 for the whole year for all of them combined. That's not an offer. That's either mathematical incompetence by the union or they're playing games.

Also it doesn't keep the employee pensions and base salaries from going up.

The taxpayer can't keep footing the bill under the new tax cap. All the squirelling and penny counting that "Big Al" does won't make a difference anymore.

It's incompetence alright, by those who run the town. A union offers a give back, and it's not considered? A union, who's members never paid a dime toward their healthcare benefits, offers to start paying, and the offer is ignored? I agree, it doesn't keep base salaries from going up, but it's a start. It's $25000.00 from a small group of people, $25000.00 less in next years budget because it's not what the King demanded. He needs to learn to leave his ego at the door when asking for help. When help is offered, grab it.

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Guest Counting Chickens

Not sure where you're going with this. Every muncipality in the state of New Jersey includes state aid in their budget. State aid is now frozen and taxes can't be raised more than 2%.

I'd say the Mayor has counted all the chickens and all the eggs which is why the layoffs and furloughs begin at the very beginning of the new budget year, January 1.

I am suggesting that to include monies that might not appear is irresponsible. You say that every municipality includes state aid, that doesn't make it right. Just recently, a lot of people bought the house that they WANTED, versus the one they could afford, or were qualified for. This led to an obvious mess.

Let's assume that your tax return last year was $4,000 dollars, would you budget an extra $4,000 to your income this year? I would imagine not, because you don't know what you will get. It is this assumption that gets the municipalities, this is not specific to Kearny, into trouble.

As for the cap, the only thing the cap has done, is limit the Town's ability to RAISE funds. No one wants higher taxes, that is obvious. However, there are expenditures beyond salary which the Town has no control over; for example, utilities, tipping fees (garbage), and there are numerous others. So, the Town can use the cap to hold the line on salaries, but what has the state done to protect the taxpayer in other ways. The answer is: not a damned thing. While the Town can seek to increase contributions to health care, what control does it have over an increase in their costs.

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Guest realist

Why am I the only person in town who is fed up with our taxes, and cannot understand why our services have to be affected? The mayor is laying off workers , basically to save his ass, but my taxes are the same, so I'm paying the same insane amount, but i will have less police, fire and, town workers for it? When the town starts looking like harrison, the mayor is going to have a hard time getting relected based on his last name.

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Why am I the only person in town who is fed up with our taxes, and cannot understand why our services have to be affected? The mayor is laying off workers , basically to save his ass, but my taxes are the same, so I'm paying the same insane amount, but i will have less police, fire and, town workers for it? When the town starts looking like harrison, the mayor is going to have a hard time getting relected based on his last name.

According to some numbnut on the Harrison Forum, they have a better PD than We do... :lol: Last time I looked OUR guys arent at each other's throats ot having fured on KOTW like HPD does. I've been asking around at it appears that the layoffs are going forward. You know..isnt it usually the M&C that complain all the time about the Cops and Firemen never wanting to cooperate, yet this time, when the PBA DOES cooperate, and actually DOES what they asked for....now all of a sudden the Mayor and Council are nowhere to be found.

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Guest Real Realist

Why am I the only person in town who is fed up with our taxes, and cannot understand why our services have to be affected? The mayor is laying off workers , basically to save his ass, but my taxes are the same, so I'm paying the same insane amount, but i will have less police, fire and, town workers for it? When the town starts looking like harrison, the mayor is going to have a hard time getting relected based on his last name.

If all the town workers gave back their salary increases, there'd be no layoffs. Since that's not happening, services will be cut back becuase of layoffs.

The automatic raise increases, longevity payments, full free benefits and high pensions have broken the taxpayer. That's the reason for high taxes. Governor Christie is going to reduce if not hack all that.

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Why am I the only person in town who is fed up with our taxes, and cannot understand why our services have to be affected? The mayor is laying off workers , basically to save his ass, but my taxes are the same, so I'm paying the same insane amount, but i will have less police, fire and, town workers for it? When the town starts looking like harrison, the mayor is going to have a hard time getting relected based on his last name.

This is it, in a nutshell. You WILL pay the same, most likely MORE, and you will get less. And the Kearny king will hope that you don't notice. From a service standpoint, you will not enjoy the same services. From a safety standpoint, the police and fire will do their best with the reductions they face, but safety will be negatively affected.

To Mayor Santos, Emperor, you have no clothes.

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This is it, in a nutshell. You WILL pay the same, most likely MORE, and you will get less. And the Kearny king will hope that you don't notice. From a service standpoint, you will not enjoy the same services. From a safety standpoint, the police and fire will do their best with the reductions they face, but safety will be negatively affected.

To Mayor Santos, Emperor, you have no clothes.

WHY is it no one takes these idiots to task. Before last years election, Santos said we had a 9 million dollar surplus, then changed it to 7 then 5. Where did the money go Mayor. Get rid of all your attorneys and hire a full time engineer to save taxpayers money like Leadbeater said. I know you won't but he once again was right when he told us all taxes would go through the roof once the election was over. You people need to give him a chance, everything he told me once again came true. Wake up before it's to late, if it's not already.

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Guest Earth to Kearny Employees

This is it, in a nutshell. You WILL pay the same, most likely MORE, and you will get less. And the Kearny king will hope that you don't notice. From a service standpoint, you will not enjoy the same services. From a safety standpoint, the police and fire will do their best with the reductions they face, but safety will be negatively affected.

To Mayor Santos, Emperor, you have no clothes.

Governor Chris Christie gave us the 2% tax cap without any cost reforms, not Mayor Santos.

The layoffs will be staggering around the State in 2011. It started in 2010 in neighboring municipalities.

Has any Kearny employee group accepted a zero increase for the good of the town? Sadly, no.

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Governor Chris Christie gave us the 2% tax cap without any cost reforms, not Mayor Santos.

The layoffs will be staggering around the State in 2011. It started in 2010 in neighboring municipalities.

Has any Kearny employee group accepted a zero increase for the good of the town? Sadly, no.

Not sure how this applies to the post that you replied to, at all. FACT: We will all pay more for less, services WILL be compromised. My problem is not necessarily that the Mayor is looking to cut, it's his failure to admit that when you offer less for the same price (in this case more), then that equates to a tax increase.

I saw something recently where the gangs in Newark are wearing their respective colors with the impending date of the layoffs printed on their attire. Why do you imagine that is, and we should all hope that when the PD is reduced, this little war stays in Newark. It is certainly not something I'm comfortable with, and you know what else . . . . . . . . I hope to GOD I'm WRONG.

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Guest Taxpayer

You think that's a win for the municipality? Looks to me like they firefighters will get a pension of $90K if they retired today with 30 years of service. Any NJ firefighter would sign that deal in a second. They average about $60K. Jersey's pension system is in bad shape due to the politicians stealing $ from it & not paying their pension payments for 12 years,but it's nowhere near the desperate situation California's in. No wonder when their pensioning out Firefighters at that rate!!

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Guest Whats next

WHY is it no one takes these idiots to task. Before last years election, Santos said we had a 9 million dollar surplus, then changed it to 7 then 5. Where did the money go Mayor. Get rid of all your attorneys and hire a full time engineer to save taxpayers money like Leadbeater said. I know you won't but he once again was right when he told us all taxes would go through the roof once the election was over. You people need to give him a chance, everything he told me once again came true. Wake up before it's to late, if it's not already.

Kearny is turning into a joke. A town that less than 1 year ago was boasting publically that they were financially sound and actually had over a $5 million dollar surplus, is now claiming bankrupt. As a taxpayer i find this very hard to understand. Mr. Mayor i know you or your so called council "uncontested" read this site, can you please give me an explanation? And please leave the fact we are getting less aid, aid should be not be part of a budget or surplus, it is found money. I go to the council meeting and watch the bobble head Doyle and the rest just smile and agree without once asking "why?'. Is this what the town has come to? Am I as a taxpayer expected to recieve less from town services because you were unable to tell the truth? I heard about the public employee layoffs and was disgusted. How can you imagine laying off without putting it to a public vote. We as taxpayers do have a say. I have some questions for you. When was the last pension payment made? What did you spend the monies on? Is an audit in order? What is the town doing to keep these layoffs from happening? Are you working with the unions? Or is one of the councilwomen still taking at the county about no matter what the unions do we are laying off? Yes i was there for the conversation. I would hate for Kearny to become another rundown urban slum but that is what it is coming to. Less police and fire to protect our town...less public employees taking care of the parks and the streets. If all this is happening, I have one more question. When are my taxes going down? With less services to pay for surely my taxes should go down, right. Or is this not part of your plan. Before anyone starts spouting about how the unions are killing the town, please have you facts. Or i will surely provide them for you.

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Kearny is turning into a joke. A town that less than 1 year ago was boasting publically that they were financially sound and actually had over a $5 million dollar surplus, is now claiming bankrupt. As a taxpayer i find this very hard to understand. Mr. Mayor i know you or your so called council "uncontested" read this site, can you please give me an explanation? And please leave the fact we are getting less aid, aid should be not be part of a budget or surplus, it is found money. I go to the council meeting and watch the bobble head Doyle and the rest just smile and agree without once asking "why?'. Is this what the town has come to? Am I as a taxpayer expected to recieve less from town services because you were unable to tell the truth? I heard about the public employee layoffs and was disgusted. How can you imagine laying off without putting it to a public vote. We as taxpayers do have a say. I have some questions for you. When was the last pension payment made? What did you spend the monies on? Is an audit in order? What is the town doing to keep these layoffs from happening? Are you working with the unions? Or is one of the councilwomen still taking at the county about no matter what the unions do we are laying off? Yes i was there for the conversation. I would hate for Kearny to become another rundown urban slum but that is what it is coming to. Less police and fire to protect our town...less public employees taking care of the parks and the streets. If all this is happening, I have one more question. When are my taxes going down? With less services to pay for surely my taxes should go down, right. Or is this not part of your plan. Before anyone starts spouting about how the unions are killing the town, please have you facts. Or i will surely provide them for you.

That's a long rant. How much does the Kearny taxpayer pay you for your salary and benefits?

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