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Guest 2smart4u

zerO came out publicly yesterday and announced his support for the mosque at Ground Zero, wonderful !!!

zerO's muslim roots over-ruled the pain of thousands of family members who lost loved ones on 9-11 and caved in to the demands of the radical muslims who refuse to consider any other location, even after Gov. Patterson announced he would provide state-owned land for the mosque.

This is a sad day for America when we can't count on the POTUS to support the feelings and wishes of all those effected by 9-11.

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zerO came out publicly yesterday and announced his support for the mosque at Ground Zero, wonderful !!!

zerO's muslim roots over-ruled the pain of thousands of family members who lost loved ones on 9-11 and caved in to the demands of the radical muslims who refuse to consider any other location, even after Gov. Patterson announced he would provide state-owned land for the mosque.

This is a sad day for America when we can't count on the POTUS to support the feelings and wishes of all those effected by 9-11.

house repubs to first responders: "F**K you"

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zerO came out publicly yesterday and announced his support for the mosque at Ground Zero, wonderful !!!

zerO's muslim roots over-ruled the pain of thousands of family members who lost loved ones on 9-11 and caved in to the demands of the radical muslims who refuse to consider any other location, even after Gov. Patterson announced he would provide state-owned land for the mosque.

This is a sad day for America when we can't count on the POTUS to support the feelings and wishes of all those effected by 9-11.

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So you would rather throw out our own Constitution?

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zerO came out publicly yesterday and announced his support for the mosque at Ground Zero, wonderful !!!

zerO's muslim roots over-ruled the pain of thousands of family members who lost loved ones on 9-11 and caved in to the demands of the radical muslims who refuse to consider any other location, even after Gov. Patterson announced he would provide state-owned land for the mosque.

This is a sad day for America when we can't count on the POTUS to support the feelings and wishes of all those effected by 9-11.

Ever heard of the Constitution?

Amendment 1 - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Exactly what would you propose?

Yes, Muslims have the right to exercise their religion freely - whether you and bailing Palin like it or not.

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Guest Truth Teller
zerO came out publicly yesterday and announced his support for the mosque at Ground Zero, wonderful !!!

zerO's muslim roots over-ruled the pain of thousands of family members who lost loved ones on 9-11 and caved in to the demands of the radical muslims who refuse to consider any other location, even after Gov. Patterson announced he would provide state-owned land for the mosque.

This is a sad day for America when we can't count on the POTUS to support the feelings and wishes of all those effected by 9-11.

Not that everyone doesn't already know this, but you are a fool.

In the United States of America, the First Amendment to our Constitution guarantees religious freedom to everyone. That means everyone. A country that lives under a system of laws cannot make exceptions on the grounds that someone's religion offends someone else. Religions that preach hellfire and damnation, such as many of the Christian churches do, offend me and offend most reasonable people. So by your "logic," we should prohibit building certain kinds of Christian churches. But we don't because we live under the rule of law that respects people's religions. Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Humanists, Hindus, Wiccans - everyone - all have an equal right to build a place of worship anywhere they choose, so long as they have a property right to the space. And they cannot be denied a property right, or any other right, based on their religion.

We cannot spend the rest of our days trying to undo the tragedy of 9/11. Life is for the living, and we have to move on. The Muslims who are trying to open a Mosque near the World Trade Center site have proposed it as a site to incorporate not only Islam but other religions as well, and to help rebuild the area. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=10578211

The knuckleheads who opposed the site at the public meeting at which it was approved had the nerve to call a peaceful house of worship "a shrine to the very ideology that inspired the attacks on 9/11," completely ignoring the facts about the peaceful and ecumenical nature of the mosque. http://abcnews.go.com/US/mosque-plan-clear...ory?id=10747570 And it would even matter what kind of mosque they wanted to open. They have a right to do it, and any attempt to discriminate on a religious basis would be overturned under our system of laws.

I am very sorry that people lost loved ones on 9/11 but we should not spend the rest of our days trying to undo what cannot be undone. We should remain true to our principles, one of the most important of which is equal treatment for all religions; and even if we were to consider the quality of the house of worship being proposed - which we cannot do under the Constitution of the United States of America - the people behind this mosque are doing it to promote peace and understanding, and to rebuild New York.

Shame on the ignorant and bigoted fools who refuse to listen to the facts and have forgotten what America stands for. They are the ones creating hostility and causing a problem.

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2Stupid4words is an idiot and a liar. The mosque is not proposed on Ground Zero. It is proposed near the site. Stupid wants the mosque put somewhere else.

So Stupid, how far away is far enough? What if someone has a problem with a mosque being built anywhere below Chambers Street, or anywhere below Canal Street? How about anywhere in Manhattan, or in any of the five boroughs of the City of New York? How about the State of New York? What if the victims all agree that they are so offended by Islam that there shouldn't be any mosques on American soil? You're Too Stupid to realize that you proposing to give victims a veto power over any expression of the Islamic faith, for any reason they choose. If they don't like the project, it can't go forward, because after all, we can't hurt their feelings. What if the family-victims of 9/11 decide that Islam is so despicable that our military should attack and destroy all Muslims worldwide? Where does it stop and on what basis does an intelligent country draw the line under the rule of law and our Constitution? Not that we'll ever get an answer from you . . .

. . . or anyone else for that matter, because laws cannot be based on emotion alone. The head of the Anti-Defamation League has opposed the mosque on the grounds that "survivors of the Holocaust are entitled to feelings that are irrational." http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/nyregion...0foxman&st= We are all entitled to irrational feelings, and we all have them. But we are not entitled to act on our irrational feelings to discriminate against or in any way harm others. It is shocking that the head of an organization that was founded to counter irrational prejudices would make such a foolish comment.

2Stupid4words, for once, THINK. If peaceful Muslims are prohibited from building a mosque for the purpose of demonstrating their unity with and support for New York, we would be telling them that they are not welcome here.

What are peaceful Muslims supposed to do if even an act of peace and fellowship is rejected? We must give Muslims the same chance as we give everyone else. If we do not, then we have no business calling ourselves the greatest nation or earth, or even a good one.

Moderate Muslims will become radical because their irrational emotion will counter ours. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, and soon the whole world is blind and toothless. For absolutely no reason. All they are trying to do is help.

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zerO came out publicly yesterday and announced his support for the mosque at Ground Zero, wonderful !!!

zerO's muslim roots over-ruled the pain of thousands of family members who lost loved ones on 9-11 and caved in to the demands of the radical muslims who refuse to consider any other location, even after Gov. Patterson announced he would provide state-owned land for the mosque.

This is a sad day for America when we can't count on the POTUS to support the feelings and wishes of all those effected by 9-11.

OMG the Japs have opened Nissan car dealerships near Pearl Harbor!!! Oh, the pain!

Sushi's being served on American warships! Japs are playing baseball in the AMERICAN league.

2 smalt - you drink too much sake.

FLASH......... I hear Injuns from Little Big Horn have breached the fort, opened a casino and are scalping visitors (but giving them a free buffet)!!!! I'll check it out and get back to you.

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zerO came out publicly yesterday and announced his support for the mosque at Ground Zero, wonderful !!!

zerO's muslim roots over-ruled the pain of thousands of family members who lost loved ones on 9-11 and caved in to the demands of the radical muslims who refuse to consider any other location, even after Gov. Patterson announced he would provide state-owned land for the mosque.

This is a sad day for America when we can't count on the POTUS to support the feelings and wishes of all those effected by 9-11.

It's also a sad day when all these previous posters think you're wrong and agree that the muslims should not respect the feelings of all those who suffered on 9-11 and still suffer to this day.

For these radical muslims to scoff at the pain inflicted by their countrymen and try to erect a mosque yards away from this hallowed ground is a disgrace, as is the dispicable human garbage on this website that takes the side of the terrorists.

And BTW, I think the founding fathers who created the constitution would be on my side of this issue

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It's also a sad day when all these previous posters think you're wrong and agree that the muslims should not respect the feelings of all those who suffered on 9-11 and still suffer to this day.

For these radical muslims to scoff at the pain inflicted by their countrymen and try to erect a mosque yards away from this hallowed ground is a disgrace, as is the dispicable human garbage on this website that takes the side of the terrorists.

And BTW, I think the founding fathers who created the constitution would be on my side of this issue

You're a liar and an idiot. The Muslims who are trying to open a mosque downtown are not scoffing at anyone. On the contrary, they are reaching out to all New Yorkers to show that reasonable Muslims hate what happened on 9/11.

They do no harm to the 9/11 families. If the victims choose to be upset because a peaceful group of Muslims wants to open a mosque, then they're choosing to upset themselves. We've allowed this to be carried to an extreme. The post about Japanese opening sushi restaurants and selling Nissans is spot on. A responsible country doesn't turn its back on good citizens because of their religion.

The Founding Fathers spoke very clearly on this issue with the First Amendment, prohibiting interference with the practice of religion. Muslims have that right as much as anyone. Even if the community board had disapproved the project, the courts would have had no choice but to overturn it under the Constitution. Knowing this, the board voted 29-1 to approve the mosque.

Bigots rarely see things as they are. That's why they are bigots.

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It's also a sad day when all these previous posters think you're wrong and agree that the muslims should not respect the feelings of all those who suffered on 9-11 and still suffer to this day.

For these radical muslims to scoff at the pain inflicted by their countrymen and try to erect a mosque yards away from this hallowed ground is a disgrace, as is the dispicable human garbage on this website that takes the side of the terrorists.

And BTW, I think the founding fathers who created the constitution would be on my side of this issue

It's a sad day when people like you can't see their own hypocrisy. We are such a nation of hypocrites! We founded a country supposedly based on freedom for everyone and then enslaved one people and nearly annihilated the indigenous tribes. "Conservatives" have no problem with the Cleveland Indians, Atlanta Braves, etc., or with the Confederate flag - why should they bother anyone? - but if peaceful Muslims try to establish a mosque somewhere in the vicinity of a terrorist attack, the same people pitch a fit.

It's so self-centered! If it harms black people or red people or yellow people or brown people, that's OK but if it merely upsets (not harms) a "real American" like me - well, we can't have that! You can't build your house of worship there because it'll bother me, even though it isn't harming anyone.

Oh, yes, but we're in favor of freedom of religion - as long as it's a religion we like. Good grief. Bob Herbert is right.

We are a nation of nitwits and hypocrites.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/opinion/11herbert.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/opinion/...=1&src=tptw

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Guest Patriotic American
It's a sad day when people like you can't see their own hypocrisy. We are such a nation of hypocrites! We founded a country supposedly based on freedom for everyone and then enslaved one people and nearly annihilated the indigenous tribes. "Conservatives" have no problem with the Cleveland Indians, Atlanta Braves, etc., or with the Confederate flag - why should they bother anyone? - but if peaceful Muslims try to establish a mosque somewhere in the vicinity of a terrorist attack, the same people pitch a fit.

It's so self-centered! If it harms black people or red people or yellow people or brown people, that's OK but if it merely upsets (not harms) a "real American" like me - well, we can't have that! You can't build your house of worship there because it'll bother me, even though it isn't harming anyone.

Oh, yes, but we're in favor of freedom of religion - as long as it's a religion we like. Good grief. Bob Herbert is right.

We are a nation of nitwits and hypocrites.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/opinion/11herbert.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/opinion/...=1&src=tptw

No one will ever accuse the left of being deep thinkers. It's all about respect and sensitivity, not the constitution. Anyone with an ounce of intellect (excludes leftists) would understand the pain and suffering associated with this site and do the right thing and build it elsewhere.

BTW, my money's on this mosque never being built on this site. They'll never find construction workers willing to work there.

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Guest Fact Checker
It's also a sad day when all these previous posters think you're wrong and agree that the muslims should not respect the feelings of all those who suffered on 9-11 and still suffer to this day.

For these radical muslims to scoff at the pain inflicted by their countrymen and try to erect a mosque yards away from this hallowed ground is a disgrace, as is the dispicable human garbage on this website that takes the side of the terrorists.

And BTW, I think the founding fathers who created the constitution would be on my side of this issue

1. The proposed mosque is 3 blocks from Ground Zero. Walk a couple of blocks from Ground Zero to Warren Street and you''ll find two existing mosques, one of which dates back to 1970.

2. Founding Father Thomas Jefferson started the White House Iftar, a sunset dinner celebrating the Muslim holiday of Ramadan. George W. Bush held annual Iftars in the White House.

I understand the emotion and sensitivities of this issue. A discussion on the history of religion in our country is good. But seeing Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin engage in fear tactics and nativist jingoism in order to score political points (and Newt certainly knows better) is very disheartening.

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No one will ever accuse the left of being deep thinkers. It's all about respect and sensitivity, not the constitution. Anyone with an ounce of intellect (excludes leftists) would understand the pain and suffering associated with this site and do the right thing and build it elsewhere.

BTW, my money's on this mosque never being built on this site. They'll never find construction workers willing to work there.

That's just not true. The Constitution is very clear. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. A mosque is an establishment of religion. The establishment clause was extended to the states by the 14th Amendment. It makes perfect sense if you use your brain and think: all religions must be treated equally. That's just common sense and it is also the law. There isn't the slightest doubt about it. A governmental body may not allow or disallow a house of worship based on what religion it is.

What about respect for Muslims who want to be fully a part of their community? These particular Muslims want the community to understand that they are with it and against what the terrorists did. The community should welcome and encourage that, not recoil in horror because Muslims dared to think that they are 100% part of the USA and New York City. It's a sickening and indefensible response. If I was a Muslim this would send a message to me that the protesters truly do not consider me their equal; that I am expected to go off in a corner and flagellate myself for what someone else did. The only thing that can do is create unnecessary division. There's no excuse for it.

Is there any legitimate point on the other side? No, there isn't. All there is, is a group of people who have allowed their emotions to turn into bigotry and prejudice against an entire group - Muslims - because some Muslims committed a horrible act. That is a classic example of bigotry.

I'm very upset at what is going on. My anger is toward the bigots who think they are the only ones whose feelings should be considered just because they suffered a loss. They're being selfish and self-centered and they're losing my sympathy, and I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way.

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Not that everyone doesn't already know this, but you are a fool.

In the United States of America, the First Amendment to our Constitution guarantees religious freedom to everyone. That means everyone. A country that lives under a system of laws cannot make exceptions on the grounds that someone's religion offends someone else. Religions that preach hellfire and damnation, such as many of the Christian churches do, offend me and offend most reasonable people. So by your "logic," we should prohibit building certain kinds of Christian churches. But we don't because we live under the rule of law that respects people's religions. Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Humanists, Hindus, Wiccans - everyone - all have an equal right to build a place of worship anywhere they choose, so long as they have a property right to the space. And they cannot be denied a property right, or any other right, based on their religion.

We cannot spend the rest of our days trying to undo the tragedy of 9/11. Life is for the living, and we have to move on. The Muslims who are trying to open a Mosque near the World Trade Center site have proposed it as a site to incorporate not only Islam but other religions as well, and to help rebuild the area. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=10578211

The knuckleheads who opposed the site at the public meeting at which it was approved had the nerve to call a peaceful house of worship "a shrine to the very ideology that inspired the attacks on 9/11," completely ignoring the facts about the peaceful and ecumenical nature of the mosque. http://abcnews.go.com/US/mosque-plan-clear...ory?id=10747570 And it would even matter what kind of mosque they wanted to open. They have a right to do it, and any attempt to discriminate on a religious basis would be overturned under our system of laws.

I am very sorry that people lost loved ones on 9/11 but we should not spend the rest of our days trying to undo what cannot be undone. We should remain true to our principles, one of the most important of which is equal treatment for all religions; and even if we were to consider the quality of the house of worship being proposed - which we cannot do under the Constitution of the United States of America - the people behind this mosque are doing it to promote peace and understanding, and to rebuild New York.

Shame on the ignorant and bigoted fools who refuse to listen to the facts and have forgotten what America stands for. They are the ones creating hostility and causing a problem.

I hate it when the Left evoke the constitution that they reject. You support this mosque but try to crush every other religion. As Patriotic American stated it has nothing to do with the constitution, Muslims are free to worship anywhere. The proposed mosque is to be opened in 2011 on the very anniversary of the September 11, 2001attack, a flagrant insult to the memory of the thousands of people who died at the hands of Muslim fanatics. Throughout history, Muslims have built a Mosque as a flag of victory at the site of a victory or conquest, it is just another expression of jihad. That’s what they are doing here. So by your “logic”, to “promote peace and understanding”, the Japanese can build a monument at Pearl Harbor or how about the KKK build one at the site of Dr. Martin Luther King’s assignation.

Where is the Left’s support for St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church? A church that was crushed by the World Trade Center collapse. It was promised to be rebuilt, it has been tied up in red tape for ten years. They told the church they could not build their dome higher than the Trade Center

Memorial, yet the Mosque will be more than ten stories above the memorial. Amazing how everything is rushed through at blinding speed to build this Mosque but the Orthodox Church is not even close to being rebuilt. So by your “logic”, zoning laws should not apply to religions because of the First Amendment.

Where is the outrage that the 9/11 Memorial has not been built after ten years.

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I hate it when the Left evoke the constitution that they reject. You support this mosque but try to crush every other religion. As Patriotic American stated it has nothing to do with the constitution, Muslims are free to worship anywhere. The proposed mosque is to be opened in 2011 on the very anniversary of the September 11, 2001attack, a flagrant insult to the memory of the thousands of people who died at the hands of Muslim fanatics. Throughout history, Muslims have built a Mosque as a flag of victory at the site of a victory or conquest, it is just another expression of jihad. That’s what they are doing here. So by your “logic”, to “promote peace and understanding”, the Japanese can build a monument at Pearl Harbor or how about the KKK build one at the site of Dr. Martin Luther King’s assignation.

Where is the Left’s support for St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church? A church that was crushed by the World Trade Center collapse. It was promised to be rebuilt, it has been tied up in red tape for ten years. They told the church they could not build their dome higher than the Trade Center

Memorial, yet the Mosque will be more than ten stories above the memorial. Amazing how everything is rushed through at blinding speed to build this Mosque but the Orthodox Church is not even close to being rebuilt. So by your “logic”, zoning laws should not apply to religions because of the First Amendment.

Where is the outrage that the 9/11 Memorial has not been built after ten years.

The foregoing post is a collection of blatant lies. The left supports freedom of religion for everyone. You cannot point to a single fact to back up your lie about that.

Saying that this peaceful house of worship is an expression of jihad is a complete lie. You cannot cite a single fact to support your lie. Everything presented by the people proposing the project has made it clear that their intent is to build good relations between Muslims and others. People have just gone crazy with assumptions that there is any other intent. And then they've proclaimed their assumptions as fact. That is lying.

Saying that the proposed building is like a flag of victory at the site of a conquest is another lie. The proposal is for a community center that would be open to people of all faiths. Here is an article showing what the building would look like. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/0...oves_ahead.html

Who allegedly told the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church that they could not build their church higher than the 9/11 memorial? You're lying again. You made this claim. Now back it up with some facts. You can't because it isn't true. The church hasn't yet been rebuilt because its members haven't been able to raise enough money yet. http://media.causes.com/877275?m=&s=cause

Your claim that the plan is to open the center on 9/11/11 is also a lie. Someone has made that claim but there are no facts to back it up. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread594255/pg1 See also http://hubpages.com/hub/IS-THE-GROUND-ZERO...PENING-ON-91111 The nutcakes can't even get their lies straight. Here's someone claiming that the construction is to begin on 9/11/11. Notice that there are no facts to back that up either. http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article99415.ece

And even if the plan was to dedicate or open the project on the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attack, don't assume that the motive is to spite the victims. Find out why that was the plan - if it was the plan. So far, I have not seen any facts that it is. I've seen a lot of claims from right wingers that it is the plan, but no facts. Not that an absence of facts ever stops right wingers from yapping.

You made one true statement in your parade of lies. Muslims are free to worship anywhere. That is true. That is why having the mosque at 45 Park Place cannot be prohibited. You're too stupid to realize that you completely contradicted your entire argument by admitting that Muslims are free to worship anywhere. That's right. They are. That is exactly why they must be allowed to build their community center, which will include a mosque, at 45 Park Place, or anywhere they choose - just like everyone else could do.

You are the ones spitting on the graves of the victims of 9/11. They died because radical extremists wanted to destroy America. You're destroying America with unnecessary division based on a pack of

LIES.

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You support this mosque but try to crush every other religion.

How so? Back up your claim with some facts.

As Patriotic American stated it has nothing to do with the constitution, Muslims are free to worship anywhere.

You're trying to stop them from opening a mosque on Park Place! My God, you don't even realize that you completely contradicted yourself.

The proposed mosque is to be opened in 2011 on the very anniversary of the September 11, 2001attack, a flagrant insult to the memory of the thousands of people who died at the hands of Muslim fanatics. Throughout history, Muslims have built a Mosque as a flag of victory at the site of a victory or conquest, it is just another expression of jihad. That’s what they are doing here.

Do you have any facts to back up those claims, or do you just assume that if Muslims want to put a mosque there, they must be trying to insult you? What if their idea is to show support for the community, which is what they have said. Do you have any proof at all that they aren't telling the truth? Of course you don't. But hey, why should you supply any proof when you have such a fantastic collection of prejudices!

So by your “logic”, to “promote peace and understanding”, the Japanese can build a monument at Pearl Harbor or how about the KKK build one at the site of Dr. Martin Luther King’s assignation.

See, there's the problem "the Japanese," as though all the Japanese were exactly the same. If a group of Japanese wanted to built a monument at Pearl Harbor to show their support for American casualties, that would be a good thing, no? You assume that all Muslims want to attack America, which is just not true. Your ugly prejudices are showing.

Where is the Left’s support for St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church? A church that was crushed by the World Trade Center collapse. It was promised to be rebuilt, it has been tied up in red tape for ten years. They told the church they could not build their dome higher than the Trade Center

Can you provide any facts to support those claims? I couldn't find any.

Memorial, yet the Mosque will be more than ten stories above the memorial. Amazing how everything is rushed through at blinding speed to build this Mosque but the Orthodox Church is not even close to being rebuilt. So by your “logic”, zoning laws should not apply to religions because of the First Amendment.

Can you provide any facts to support those claims?

Where is the outrage that the 9/11 Memorial has not been built after ten years.

There's no parallel. All you're telling us is that your "thinking" amounts to a collection of biases and prejudices, and nothing more.

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I hate it when the Left evoke the constitution that they reject. You support this mosque but try to crush every other religion. As Patriotic American stated it has nothing to do with the constitution, Muslims are free to worship anywhere. The proposed mosque is to be opened in 2011 on the very anniversary of the September 11, 2001attack, a flagrant insult to the memory of the thousands of people who died at the hands of Muslim fanatics. Throughout history, Muslims have built a Mosque as a flag of victory at the site of a victory or conquest, it is just another expression of jihad. That’s what they are doing here. So by your “logic”, to “promote peace and understanding”, the Japanese can build a monument at Pearl Harbor or how about the KKK build one at the site of Dr. Martin Luther King’s assignation.

Where is the Left’s support for St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church? A church that was crushed by the World Trade Center collapse. It was promised to be rebuilt, it has been tied up in red tape for ten years. They told the church they could not build their dome higher than the Trade Center

Memorial, yet the Mosque will be more than ten stories above the memorial. Amazing how everything is rushed through at blinding speed to build this Mosque but the Orthodox Church is not even close to being rebuilt. So by your “logic”, zoning laws should not apply to religions because of the First Amendment.

Where is the outrage that the 9/11 Memorial has not been built after ten years.

Why wasn't it completed during the 8 of 10 years the hate America gop controlled this country? Stop feigning outrage and start asking your party those questions.

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What about respect for Muslims who want to be fully a part of their community? These particular Muslims want the community to understand that they are with it and against what the terrorists did. The community should welcome and encourage that, not recoil in horror because Muslims dared to think that they are 100% part of the USA and New York City. It's a sickening and indefensible response. If I was a Muslim this would send a message to me that the protesters truly do not consider me their equal; that I am expected to go off in a corner and flagellate myself for what someone else did. The only thing that can do is create unnecessary division. There's no excuse for it.

The other Mosques on Mannhatan are against what the terrorists did, so why build another. Btw, they want it to be clear that they are not associated with this group that wants to build. They see how insensitive it is to build there. There are many Muslims in America who are good citizens and want peace. Unfortunately, the others have every right to build there, shame on the contractors who take that job.

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The other Mosques on Mannhatan are against what the terrorists did, so why build another.

What a stupid remark! Do you ask "why build another Christian church?" Of course you don't. Do you ask "why build another Trump Tower?" Of course not. People don't have to justify putting up another house of worship; they don't have to get your permission. But if it's a mosque, well, why have more than one?

The answer, Stupid, is that mosques and churches are not built by entire religions; they are built by individuals and groups of individuals within a religion. So you're asking a completely ridiculous question. Imam Rauf wants to build a cultural center with a prayer room in it. That's his project. It isn't even a mosque. It's a thirteen-story cultural center.

And where do you get off claiming that Imam Rauf hasn't condemned terrorism? He has, repeatedly and consistently. See the links below. Your insinuation on this point is another lie.

Btw, they want it to be clear that they are not associated with this group that wants to build.

The group proposing to build this cultural center is led by a man who has spent the past decade promoting peace. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...2008432,00.html He has worked with the FBI and was involved in the Islamic World Forum in 2006 at the request of the Bush administration. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/17/15715/8228 His record is impeccable. http://mediamatters.org/research/201008170048 You've been fed a collection of lies and now you're repeating them. I provided factual links to support my statement. You cannot provide factual links to support yours because your claim is a lie.

There are many Muslims in America who are good citizens and want peace. Unfortunately, the others have every right to build there, shame on the contractors who take that job.

Yeah, right. Until the right wing hit machine decides to target yet another good, patriotic and innocent American and you buy their next collection of lies.

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What a stupid remark! Do you ask "why build another Christian church?" Of course you don't. Do you ask "why build another Trump Tower?" Of course not. People don't have to justify putting up another house of worship; they don't have to get your permission. But if it's a mosque, well, why have more than one?

The answer, Stupid, is that mosques and churches are not built by entire religions; they are built by individuals and groups of individuals within a religion. So you're asking a completely ridiculous question. Imam Rauf wants to build a cultural center with a prayer room in it. That's his project. It isn't even a mosque. It's a thirteen-story cultural center.

And where do you get off claiming that Imam Rauf hasn't condemned terrorism? He has, repeatedly and consistently. See the links below. Your insinuation on this point is another lie.

The group proposing to build this cultural center is led by a man who has spent the past decade promoting peace. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...2008432,00.html He has worked with the FBI and was involved in the Islamic World Forum in 2006 at the request of the Bush administration. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/17/15715/8228 His record is impeccable. http://mediamatters.org/research/201008170048 You've been fed a collection of lies and now you're repeating them. I provided factual links to support my statement. You cannot provide factual links to support yours because your claim is a lie.

Yeah, right. Until the right wing hit machine decides to target yet another good, patriotic and innocent American and you buy their next collection of lies.

I feel they have the right to build, but they are being insensitive about where they want to build it. Its too soon. We are not ready yet. Hopefully someday we will be ready.

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I feel they have the right to build, but they are being insensitive about where they want to build it. Its too soon. We are not ready yet. Hopefully someday we will be ready.

Well, we had better get ready because they are going to build it. I intend to visit it. I hope it will be a place that invites people of all religious belief systems, all ethnic backgrounds, all walks of life - everyone. If it is, then it will be for the good. If it is not, then people will have a right to say it is in bad taste. But until then, the protests should stop and the Imam Rauf and his group should be allowed to build their project in peace that the law and our Constitution afford to them.

I hope they won't back down. I understand your point but if we allow ourselves to think as you suggest, then every victim can veto any project any time he likes. "Woe is me" would become a reason why someone else should hide their light under a basket.

The ADL made a big mistake coming out against this, saying that holocaust victims have a right to be irrational about a mosque. Everyone has the right to be irrational, and we all are to a point. What we don't have the right to do is stop someone else from building a house of worship or a community center or anything else, as long as they stay within the law.

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I feel they have the right to build, but they are being insensitive about where they want to build it. Its too soon. We are not ready yet. Hopefully someday we will be ready.

Oh, please! "We're not ready yet." We live in luxury. Most people don't have the luxuries we have. They lose their homes, their loved ones even, and they move on because any other choice means death. Soldiers who see their buddies killed don't whine that they're not ready; they pick up their weapon and fight on. Being ready is a choice. Give me a break.

And just what is that we're not supposedly ready for? Peaceful Muslims, led by a man who has been working with the FBI for years to root out terrorism, want to build a community center on Park Place, which is blocks away from where the WTC stood. There have been mosques in that area for decades. This whole controversy is ginned up by right wingers who know that their sheep will bleat whenever the masters ring the bell. It's pathetic.

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The foregoing post is a collection of blatant lies. The left supports freedom of religion for everyone. You cannot point to a single fact to back up your lie about that.

Saying that this peaceful house of worship is an expression of jihad is a complete lie. You cannot cite a single fact to support your lie. Everything presented by the people proposing the project has made it clear that their intent is to build good relations between Muslims and others. People have just gone crazy with assumptions that there is any other intent. And then they've proclaimed their assumptions as fact. That is lying.

Saying that the proposed building is like a flag of victory at the site of a conquest is another lie. The proposal is for a community center that would be open to people of all faiths. Here is an article showing what the building would look like. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/0...oves_ahead.html

Who allegedly told the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church that they could not build their church higher than the 9/11 memorial? You're lying again. You made this claim. Now back it up with some facts. You can't because it isn't true. The church hasn't yet been rebuilt because its members haven't been able to raise enough money yet. http://media.causes.com/877275?m=&s=cause

Your claim that the plan is to open the center on 9/11/11 is also a lie. Someone has made that claim but there are no facts to back it up. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread594255/pg1 See also http://hubpages.com/hub/IS-THE-GROUND-ZERO...PENING-ON-91111 The nutcakes can't even get their lies straight. Here's someone claiming that the construction is to begin on 9/11/11. Notice that there are no facts to back that up either. http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article99415.ece

And even if the plan was to dedicate or open the project on the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attack, don't assume that the motive is to spite the victims. Find out why that was the plan - if it was the plan. So far, I have not seen any facts that it is. I've seen a lot of claims from right wingers that it is the plan, but no facts. Not that an absence of facts ever stops right wingers from yapping.

You made one true statement in your parade of lies. Muslims are free to worship anywhere. That is true. That is why having the mosque at 45 Park Place cannot be prohibited. You're too stupid to realize that you completely contradicted your entire argument by admitting that Muslims are free to worship anywhere. That's right. They are. That is exactly why they must be allowed to build their community center, which will include a mosque, at 45 Park Place, or anywhere they choose - just like everyone else could do.

You are the ones spitting on the graves of the victims of 9/11. They died because radical extremists wanted to destroy America. You're destroying America with unnecessary division based on a pack of

LIES.

It seems that if you don’t know something or hear it on television, it must be a lie. There are hundreds of examples of the lefts attack on God and Christianity. Their goal is to expel Christianity from our society and embrace their atheistic beliefs. I could cite pages of examples.

If you learn about Islam, you will see that since the time of Muhammad they have either converted houses of worship into Mosques or built new. The Black Stone in the Ka'aba, where Arabs had worshiped, into the supreme Islamic holy place. In Gaza, the Great Mosque of Gaza was originally a Christian church. The Tomb of Joseph. So, why build the Mosque at this site? Is there a large Muslim community there? If its intent is to “establish good relations” why build it where it offends so many people. If it’s a religion of tolerance and compassion, why can't they move it and respect the feelings of those families who lost loved ones, other religions have. You and Muslims are the ones spitting on the grave of the 9/11 victims.

And this Imam does not care about good relations or about America.

Just because you have the right to do something, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.

St. Nicholas Church was told by the Port Authority they could not build their dome higher than the Trade Center Memorial.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/nyregion/19church.html

You reply to a post with large text,insults and calling people liars, it really says more about you than it does me. It shows that you are a close minded, ignorant ideologue that can’t accept that you are not always 100% correct on every issue.

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It seems that if you don’t know something or hear it on television, it must be a lie. There are hundreds of examples of the lefts attack on God and Christianity. Their goal is to expel Christianity from our society and embrace their atheistic beliefs. I could cite pages of examples.

Time after time, right wing scumbags get caught lying, and yet they keep doing it. If you think my accusation is inaccurate, then Then demonstrate that you know what you’re talking about by citing a few of those examples. I don’t think you can, so your task is simple: Prove me wrong by citing half a dozen of these hundreds of examples you claim to know about. If you don't, then a reasonable person has every right to conclude that you are a liar - a person who says things without any basis in fact, and persists in doing it even after it is pointed out.

I suspect that if you try to do that, you’ll cite “examples” that don’t prove your point but only prove that your idea of anti-Christian bigotry is anything that prevents Christians from dominating everyone else. I’ll cite some examples that come to my mind. Let us know whether these were among the examples you had in mind.

Public schools may not sponsor a daily prayer or Bible reading. Some people complain that this shuts down free expression of religion but in fact the opposite is true: this rule of law leaves everyone free to worship as they see fit, without interference from the school system, which is an arm of the state. But because Christians became accustomed to forcing their prayers and their Bible on everyone else, they feel abused because they can no longer do it.

All laws must have a secular purpose, which means they must be rationally intended toward a demonstrable good. Laws may not be based solely on religious grounds. That is because the law has to have an objective basis. “God wants it that way” isn’t a rational basis for public policy. Is secularism trumping theology? Yes it is but that is because there is a conflict that must be resolved. Vis-à-vis government, the people have a right, first and foremost, to demand that the government serve everyone, not just one group, even if it is in the majority.

A parent may not deny a child live-saving medical treatment on religious grounds. In such cases, the conflict between the public interest and personal religious freedom is at its sharpest. But would you allow parents effectively to kill their children because they think God will heal the child, so the medical care isn’t needed? If that’s what you’re talking about, then technically you have a sound debating argument. But I think reasonable people would say the law must protect the child because the child’s right to live trumps the parents’ right to raise the child as per their religion.

If you learn about Islam, you will see that since the time of Muhammad they have either converted houses of worship into Mosques or built new. The Black Stone in the Ka'aba, where Arabs had worshiped, into the supreme Islamic holy place. In Gaza, the Great Mosque of Gaza was originally a Christian church. The Tomb of Joseph. So, why build the Mosque at this site? Is there a large Muslim community there? If its intent is to “establish good relations” why build it where it offends so many people. If it’s a religion of tolerance and compassion, why can't they move it and respect the feelings of those families who lost loved ones, other religions have. You and Muslims are the ones spitting on the grave of the 9/11 victims.

And this Imam does not care about good relations or about America.

Just because you have the right to do something, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.

Grouping the people proposing the Park Place center with terrorists is rank bigotry. I could as easily make similar arguments against Christianity, which also has a long history of violence and abuse. But I wouldn’t because I know that this history does not represent all Christians. In the same way, you should not lump peaceful people with terrorists.

As for Imam Rauf supposedly not caring about good relations with the United States, Glen Beck said exactly the same thing! http://www.tvsquad.com/2010/08/17/jon-stew...round-zero-mos/ Not to mention, it happens to be true. Obviously Beck made a mistake. Telling the truth is not anti-American - at least it wasn't until lying right wing scumbags started gaining control.

St. Nicholas Church was told by the Port Authority they could not build their dome higher than the Trade Center Memorial.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/nyregion/19church.html

If you read the entire article, you will see that there are security concerns at the site of the Greek orthodox church. If a mosque was being proposed at the same location, presumably it would face the same height restrictions. Yet again, you’re ascribing a religious motive when there isn’t one. Furthermore, the inability to rebuild the church is a result of lack of funds, not an inability to reach agreement with the Port Authority on the details, which is what lying right-wing scumbag author of post 14 claimed. However, because I am an honest person – unlike lying right-wing scumbags – I will acknowledge that the right-wing author of post 14 made a mistake and wrote something that has some truth in it. The Port Authority did restrict the height of the building but almost certainly not for the reason the author insinuates: it is hard to imagine that the height was restricted because the Authority has anything against Greek Orthodoxy.

You reply to a post with large text,insults and calling people liars, it really says more about you than it does me. It shows that you are a close minded, ignorant ideologue that can’t accept that you are not always 100% correct on every issue.

I can understand not liking my approach. I don't care what you think of me. I am not the issue. Lying right-wing hypocrisy is destroying this country and our culture. People don't like being called liars and hypocrites, especially with it's true. I'm sick of the excuses people make up in this country to beat up entire groups, like Muslims, by insisting they are all the same, and then denying that they are being prejudiced - especially when the abused group lacks the political power to fight back. First it was the Native Americans we exterminated in genocidal warfare and the Africans we kidnapped and enslaved; then it was the Japanese; now it's the Muslims. And every time there's a new excuse. I'm sick of it, and shame on you if you don't see it. "Oh, it's different this time because we are terrorist victims." It's not different. It's the same garbage in a new garbage can. Imam Rauf is a peaceful man who has helped the United States and was selected by Bush II to represent the U.S.

But if you don't think I'm right, then prove me wrong. You still haven’t defended any of the things I criticized or denied that the opponents of the proposed center are lying in an attempt to bring it down. The author of post 14 got one right out of a dozen or so. So I got lazy and just assumed he was lying about everything. I was wrong but not by much. And I admitted it because unlike lying right-wing scumbags, I care about the truth. That's exactly what's going on. Prove me wrong.

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Guest 2smart4u
Well, we had better get ready because they are going to build it. I intend to visit it. I hope it will be a place that invites people of all religious belief systems, all ethnic backgrounds, all walks of life - everyone. If it is, then it will be for the good. If it is not, then people will have a right to say it is in bad taste. But until then, the protests should stop and the Imam Rauf and his group should be allowed to build their project in peace that the law and our Constitution afford to them.

I hope they won't back down. I understand your point but if we allow ourselves to think as you suggest, then every victim can veto any project any time he likes. "Woe is me" would become a reason why someone else should hide their light under a basket.

The ADL made a big mistake coming out against this, saying that holocaust victims have a right to be irrational about a mosque. Everyone has the right to be irrational, and we all are to a point. What we don't have the right to do is stop someone else from building a house of worship or a community center or anything else, as long as they stay within the law.

I think you have the makings of a suicide bomber. A little more brain washing and I think you'll be ready to strap on that vest. Remember to shout " allah akbar" when you pull the pin you moron.

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