Guest Guest Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Wrong. There is no evidence supporting life began as a matter of serendipity. "You just assume you're right. That's arrogant". As I said before , the complexity of life leads me to believe it couldn't have all happened as a matter of happenstance and serendipity. In the absense of any proof to the contrary, my freethinking mind tells me God did it. You've said that over and over. What you don't do is provide a shred of evidence to support your claim that "God did it," or any reasoning that would lead a reasonable person to think "God did it." William's links on the recent history behind this silliness are worth a look if you're really interested in the truth, which of course you're not. We know you're not interested in the truth because you keep ignoring everything that doesn't fit your preconceived conclusion, you keep changing the subject and you keep making dishonest arguments against your opposition. For example, no one suggest that "life began as a matter of serendipity." You're playing little words games against science, which doesn't cut it. It's always the same thing with you flat-earth creationists. You will never waver from your conclusion. You will never acknowledge the merit to all the science that opposes your conclusion. You can't look at the evidence, because if you did you would have to admit that your conclusion isn't supported. You also don't provide any explanation why you're qualified to draw a conclusion that is contrary to what the overwhelming majority of the world's scientists believe. You've believed in "God" for a long time, haven't you. Go ahead, it's alright, you can admit it. You'd be shouting "hallelujiah" to it in church, so why not admit it here. But you won't admit it here because you know that your belief in "God" is the root of your biases. All you've done is take your biases, which come straight out of that belief, and use it as your fill-in-the-gaps fairy-tale explanation for everything you don't understand. What you don't understand covers considerable ground, so you use the fairy tale a lot. Because you're constantly in that mode of thought, as evidenced by your inane posts on this forum for a long time, your persistent claim to being a freethinker is not supported by the evidence. You can call a pig a duck, but it's still a pig. Or to put it another way, I know patriots and I know freethinkers. You are neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Wrong. There is no evidence supporting life began as a matter of serendipity. "You just assume you're right. That's arrogant". As I said before , the complexity of life leads me to believe it couldn't have all happened as a matter of happenstance and serendipity. In the absense of any proof to the contrary, my freethinking mind tells me God did it. Which is exactly what I said without putting your labels on it, but you don't see the problem. To state it in one sentence, absence of disproof on these grounds is not a reasonable basis for belief. You’re guilty of a rank double standard. You look at this as an either-or situation: either life emerged from natural processes or “God did it.” Scientists have learned more about the building blocks of life, have developed evidence-based theories about how it began and are at work putting together the final pieces of the puzzle. But because they don’t have final proof of the exact mechanism, you opt for “God did it.” Of course you have no evidence that any god exists, so on the one hand you accept your argument without evidence but reject the evidence-based theories of science that are at odds with your belief. And your argument is not credible because if I remember correctly you don’t believe in evolution either, despite the fact that evolution is verified beyond a doubt. So there's no reason for any intelligent person to accept your "freethinking mind" as an authority on any of these matters. Equally or more important, this is not an either-or matter. Many Christians, Jews and other theists believe that God set in motion the processes by which life began. They do not believe in the stories of Genesis 1 and 2, but they choose to believe that God set in motion whatever natural processes produced the first protein, the first amino acid, the first strands of DNA and RNA and the first living cell. This way of thinking avoids God-in-the-gaps problems, but on the other hand it doesn’t predict anything. So it isn’t of much use, unless you think it’s important to know about the existence of God. Of course, many theologies hold that anyone who does not know God (as they conceive “God”) is destined for eternity in hell. That’s a horrid belief system on several grounds, the worst of which is not the complete absence of any evidence to support it. My freethinking mind tells me that if there is a God, he/she/it doesn't want us to know about him/her/it, because if that was desired, people would no more doubt the existence of God than they doubt the existence of water. There's no moral virtue in believing in any particular theology or in believing in a god or gods; if you understand social psychology, it's obvious that belief in God is a product of psychology and cultural influences. And you never address any questions regarding the origins of God. How did that happen? You’re completely willing to accept that “God just is,” I presume, but you reject the arguably more reasonable view that “what just is” doesn’t originate with consciousness (given all we know about what consciousness is and how it comes about). So in many ways the real question here is whether drawing a conclusion about “God” is important. My freethinking mind tells me that throughout history people have been drawing all sorts of conclusions; the truth is that no one knows the answer. So that’s my answer: I don’t know the answer. Because that’s the truth. You don’t know the answer either. In fact, you don’t know any more about it than I do. That’s also the truth. That said, don’t misinterpret my answer. “I don’t know” doesn’t mean it’s as likely true as false. It means just what it says: I don’t know. I can’t assess probabilities of something I don’t know. What I do know is that there’s no reason for me to spend my time on this subject matter, except for the influences theism has on so many lives. My views about God aren’t so much about the universe or the nature or origins of reality as they are about how these ideas wreak havoc in the world. That does merit my attention, which is why I spend so much time on these issues. I'm curious: how are you defining the word "freethinking?" Your definition obviously isn't any commonly accepted one. So what is your definition, without just making some smart-aleck remark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Autonomous* Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Where was the word "smarter" used in his post? Moron. Wow, that'd be a great point had I used quotation marks! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Autonomous* Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Wrong. There is no evidence supporting life began as a matter of serendipity. "You just assume you're right. That's arrogant". As I said before , the complexity of life leads me to believe it couldn't have all happened as a matter of happenstance and serendipity. In the absense of any proof to the contrary, my freethinking mind tells me God did it. Except that God would be more complex than simple life forms, so that hypothesis is neither logical nor scientific and even less freethinking. You could only come to that conclusion with a pre-existing belief in God-an objection you still cannot answer. Believe whatever you want, but don't try to pretend that your religion is better than science. The fact is that your mind is small so your view of the universe is too. There are many things we don't know about the universe. That is perfectly alright. It is a glorious universe and we can still feel the joy of discovery. Here's a question for you-how does gravity work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patriot Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Except that God would be more complex than simple life forms, so that hypothesis is neither logical nor scientific and even less freethinking. You could only come to that conclusion with a pre-existing belief in God-an objection you still cannot answer. Believe whatever you want, but don't try to pretend that your religion is better than science. The fact is that your mind is small so your view of the universe is too. There are many things we don't know about the universe. That is perfectly alright. It is a glorious universe and we can still feel the joy of discovery.Here's a question for you-how does gravity work? "Except that God would be more complex than simple life forms". So now you speak for God? I always thought you weren't very bright but that statement proves it for me. The boy talks to God !! What a joke you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 "Except that God would be more complex than simple life forms". So now you speak for God? I always thought you weren't very bright but that statement proves it for me. The boy talks to God !! What a joke you are. You are such a freaking idiot! Every Christian theologian in the world would say that God is more complex than a bacterium. You deny it and think you're standing up for God and Christianity. No wonder you say such stupid things. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Autonomous* Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 "Except that God would be more complex than simple life forms". So now you speak for God? I always thought you weren't very bright but that statement proves it for me. The boy talks to God !! What a joke you are. :lol: man what?!? So you believe that something simpler than the first ever life form could have created the first life form? That doesn't even make sense. Use your brain, man. So how does gravity work again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 "Except that God would be more complex than simple life forms". So now you speak for God? I always thought you weren't very bright but that statement proves it for me. The boy talks to God !! What a joke you are. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/am...raq-509925.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/02/usa.religion http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5101301688.html http://politicalwire.com/archives/2004/07/...of_the_day.html http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0901-03.htm http://www.supak.com/bush.htm http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=36859 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/31/0836/62623 http://www.volconvo.com/forums/miscellaneo...tson-again.html http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/...tson-to-sel.php http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2158348/posts http://secularright.org/wordpress/?p=933 http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2008/12/Rick...script.aspx?p=2 Of course, autonomous didn't do anything like that, but no matter. For the person whose religion has trained him not to think, or to think only those thoughts that support what he has already chosen to believe, all things are possible - to believe. "Patriot," we all know you well enough to know that you will support and defend everything Bush and Falwell and Robertson and Warren say. "My country, right or wrong" doesn't mean "my country, right no matter what." At least it shouldn't. You have created a fantasy world inside your own head. There is real work to be done in the world. Commit yourself to intellectual honesty, perhaps for the first time in your life, and be a part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patriot Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 :blink: man what?!?So you believe that something simpler than the first ever life form could have created the first life form? That doesn't even make sense. Use your brain, man. So how does gravity work again? ??????????????? Sober up and try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 ??????????????? Sober up and try again. Seemed perfectly sober to me. An almighty god would have to be more complex than any human being. So if a single cell coming into existence by natural forces seems impossible to you, then how do you explain God? What don't you understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lincoln Logger Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/am...raq-509925.htmlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/02/usa.religion http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5101301688.html http://politicalwire.com/archives/2004/07/...of_the_day.html http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0901-03.htm http://www.supak.com/bush.htm http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=36859 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/31/0836/62623 http://www.volconvo.com/forums/miscellaneo...tson-again.html http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/...tson-to-sel.php http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2158348/posts http://secularright.org/wordpress/?p=933 http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2008/12/Rick...script.aspx?p=2 Of course, autonomous didn't do anything like that, but no matter. For the person whose religion has trained him not to think, or to think only those thoughts that support what he has already chosen to believe, all things are possible - to believe. "Patriot," we all know you well enough to know that you will support and defend everything Bush and Falwell and Robertson and Warren say. "My country, right or wrong" doesn't mean "my country, right no matter what." At least it shouldn't. You have created a fantasy world inside your own head. There is real work to be done in the world. Commit yourself to intellectual honesty, perhaps for the first time in your life, and be a part of it. Anyone can google. Its just that some of us have better things to do with our time. For someone who claims to be so openminded and yet so thick-headed. Religion gives guidance something you have strayed away from. Visiting other places via the internet doesn't count as being worldly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Anyone can google. Its just that some of us have better things to do with our time. For someone who claims to be so openminded and yet so thick-headed. Religion gives guidance something you have strayed away from. Visiting other places via the internet doesn't count as being worldly. The point is not that I can google. The point is that "Patriot" wasn't being consistent, criticizing other people for supposedly thinking God speaks to them, when such claims are constantly being made in the name of Christianity all the time. Not to mention the fact that the people "Patriot" criticized weren't claiming to speak for God, anyway. So "Patriot" was wrong on both counts. You didn't want to hear that, in fact I suspect you may be "Patriot," so you just ignored it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lincoln Logger Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 The point is not that I can google. The point is that "Patriot" wasn't being consistent, criticizing other people for supposedly thinking God speaks to them, when such claims are constantly being made in the name of Christianity all the time. Not to mention the fact that the people "Patriot" criticized weren't claiming to speak for God, anyway. So "Patriot" was wrong on both counts. You didn't want to hear that, in fact I suspect you may be "Patriot," so you just ignored it. Way to go Captain Bligh. So keep your suspicions coming. We are all other people than we say we are. Just ask Kris. As far as me I am still the same person who has lived in this town over 50 years. Who knows who the real Paul might be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Anyone can google. Its just that some of us have better things to do with our time. For someone who claims to be so openminded and yet so thick-headed. Religion gives guidance something you have strayed away from. Visiting other places via the internet doesn't count as being worldly. Is this same religion giving the guidance to come on here and insult others and belittle their opinions? Organized religion as a whole is so intolerant. The laws of humanity provide all the guidance anyone needs to live a good life. Honesty, integrity, respect for oneself and of others and to try and leave the world better than you found it. Believing that the Christian god is master of the universe doesn't make you worldly either. It only makes you narrow minded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patriot Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 The point is not that I can google. The point is that "Patriot" wasn't being consistent, criticizing other people for supposedly thinking God speaks to them, when such claims are constantly being made in the name of Christianity all the time. Not to mention the fact that the people "Patriot" criticized weren't claiming to speak for God, anyway. So "Patriot" was wrong on both counts. You didn't want to hear that, in fact I suspect you may be "Patriot," so you just ignored it. Paul just can't imagine that more than one person doesn't agree with his far left loonyness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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