KHS Uniform Committee Meeting

[Guest Ohhhh baby]

NO UNIFORMS!!!!!!!

I LOVE looking up the girls short skirts going to and from school....and those skin tight pants and tops WOW! Some leave nothing to the imagination. I'd miss it.

Some FREEDOM of self expression huh?

You don't need the leClairs or the school to tell you what your freedoms are or how to dress; parental guidance seems to be in order here. Don't let your kid leave the house looking like a slut or a slob and you won't need uniforms. YOU are the adult. YOU do something about YOUR CHILD.

Don't give me that nonsense that you can't be there in the morning for your child because you're out to work early or have to sleep because you worked late. Here's a rule you SHOULD follow...YOU are resposible for YOUR child! Or, has having a child taken away

your freedom?

Maybe you should speak to an attorney. You might have a case against your child. Hey leClair! How about a Class Action suit on behalf of the parents against their children?

Dressing for success is simply pride in appearance.

I do encourage the student body to protest any drastic change by first fully researching the situation and then presenting an educated and unified position. If the decision does not go their way then I would encourage them to accept it. Give it your best!

[Guest Guest]

NO UNIFORMS!!!!!!!

I LOVE looking up the girls short skirts going to and from school....and those skin tight pants and tops WOW! Some leave nothing to the imagination. I'd miss it.

Some FREEDOM of self expression huh?

You don't need the leClairs or the school to tell you what your freedoms are or how to dress; parental guidance seems to be in order here. Don't let your kid leave the house looking like a slut or a slob and you won't need uniforms. YOU are the adult. YOU do something about YOUR CHILD.

Don't give me that nonsense that you can't be there in the morning for your child because you're out to work early or have to sleep because you worked late. Here's a rule you SHOULD follow...YOU are resposible for YOUR child! Or, has having a child taken away

your freedom?

Maybe you should speak to an attorney. You might have a case against your child. Hey leClair! How about a Class Action suit on behalf of the parents against their children?

Dressing for success is simply pride in appearance.

I do encourage the student body to protest any drastic change by first fully researching the situation and then presenting an educated and unified position. If the decision does not go their way then I would encourage them to accept it. Give it your best!

You're right about a lot of this, but why do you have to get stupid on the one kid in Kearny who seems to know the law?

You let us know when he files that class-action suit.

[Guest Guest]

Matt is a good role model. He stands up for what he believes in and for the law. While I think everyone should stand for the flag salute, it is Matt's right, not to.

It's more than that. The minute people are standing up and saluting because they are expected to is the minute that standing up and saluting loses its meaning.

[Guest KHS Alumnus]

Hey buddy-you go ahead and support Matt LeClair. While you are doing that why don't you pat him on the back for not standing to salute the flag.

He has a good reason not to, and he has every right not to. If you don't like him having that right, why are you living in a country whose Constitution champions such freedom?

He is a good role model for all of the kids in America.

Sarcasm aside, that he is.

[Guest Guest]

It's more than that. The minute people are standing up and saluting because they are expected to is the minute that standing up and saluting loses its meaning.

Exactly.

[Guest Guest]

It's more than that. The minute people are standing up and saluting because they are expected to is the minute that standing up and saluting loses its meaning.

Yeah, tell that to all of the people that spilled their blood and guts for your freedom.

[Guest Guest]

Yeah, tell that to all of the people that spilled their blood and guts for your freedom.

They should understand better than anyone how anti-freedom it is to EXPECT someone to do something and then give them a hard time if they CHOOSE not to, even if they have a good reason.

Compulsory chanting is fascist, plain and simple.

[Guest Guest]

Yeah, tell that to all of the people that spilled their blood and guts for your freedom.

Yeah, and your mom gave birth to you. How dare you turn down another piece of apple pie.

Think for once in your life.

[Guest Patriot]

The only thing you seem to have forgotten is your manners. So now that you've fired your entire intellectual arsenal, I'll exercise the privilege that KOTW affords me to respond.

The question of social norms is very interesting, and more complicated than most people realize. Most people look at their own customs without seeing all the assumptions that underlay them, and all the history behind them. There would be nothing wrong, in my view, with lawyers wearing a wider variety of clothing. In fact, female attorneys have more freedom then males. If women had been allowed at the bar hundreds of years ago, it might have developed very differently, either males being freer, or females being more restricted.

The point is, I chose to be a lawyer. I understood the informal requirements of my trade before ever setting foot in law school. That is not true of elementary and secondary school children, so your point is not well-taken.

We could try to have a thoughtful and respectful dialogue. We may never agree in our conclusions, but that won’t guarantee you that I won’t post here to express my opinions. When you post the way you just did, you make me think that my argument must have been pretty good to have gotten you so riled up.

What you don’t seem to understand is that freedom is not just about the individual. It is the essence of our democracy and our culture. And yet if individuals don’t stand up for it, who will? If you really look at who can’t accept what, I think you’ll see a very different picture than the one you’ve drawn yourself.

There's one undeniable truth here; If every adult male in the U.S. , past and present , was like Paul,

we wouldn't be the country we are today, we would all be speaking German and flying the Nazi flag.

[Guest Guest]

There's one undeniable truth here; If every adult male in the U.S. , past and present , was like Paul,

we wouldn't be the country we are today, we would all be speaking German and flying the Nazi flag.

Yet another mindless statement from Patrat the punk.

[Guest Guest]

There's one undeniable truth here; If every adult male in the U.S. , past and present , was like Paul, we wouldn't be the country we are today, we would all be speaking German and flying the Nazi flag.

You really can't see yourself at all, can you? If every adult male in the US, present, was like you, we'd be a Nazi nation under the American flag. Apparently you think that's an improvement. I don't think so.

It drives you crazy that some people don't buy into rah-rah false patriotism, doesn't it.

[Guest Paul]

There's one undeniable truth here; If every adult male in the U.S. , past and present , was like Paul,

we wouldn't be the country we are today, we would all be speaking German and flying the Nazi flag.

The idea of a world populated only by people just like me, or you, or any one of us, is a fantasy. There has never been such a world, and there never will be, unless an extreme form of science-fiction cloning comes to pass.

In the world we actually live in, each of us has many ways in which to contribute. Your vision of the world, obviously, is a vision of unquestioning obedience and conformity - as long as the world meets your personal criteria, of course. The world of your imagination is neat and orderly and freshly scrubbed, but only a certain kind of person would want to live in it. Contrary to what you may imagine, that person is not necessarily the healthiest or the finest or the most righteous. Very often, people who crave that much order are seeking to compensate for a perceived lack of order in their own lives. Quite often, they are willing to force order on others as a means of forcing it on themselves. They can't stand the idea that someone else might be having a good time while they're toeing the line. Quite often the need for that much order is a pathology.

In a world populated with people just like you, there would be very little room for a Beethoven or an Einstein or a Jefferson, all mavericks of the first order. We would not have the technology we have, or the advances in medicine, or the computers you and I are using to correspond on this forum. There would be no great art or music, no paradigm-shattering scientific discoveries, perhaps no science of astronomy or evolutionary biology or heart transplants - because a world filled with people like you would lack creativity and imagination. A world filled only with any one personality type would be completely different, and I don't mean better. Even in the military, where would the brilliant commanders come from? You think you see what the world would be like with people only like you or only like me, but you don't. I wouldn't want to live in a world of only people like me either, because that world would lack all the talents and abilities that I lack personally. But that's no less true of you, all the more because you don't see it.

You don't see the genius of a Martin Luther King or a Gandhi or even a Patton, because you seem to think that their contribution to human life is part of the natural order of things, as though it grew on a tree somewhere. It is part of the natural order of things, but it reaches its highest expression in societies that are open and free and truly value dissent.

I am a contrarian. I am drawn to dissonance and motivated to restore a semblance of order. I am willing to say what people don't want to hear, so I am not very popular. Sometimes, though, I'm right, and when I am, you hate it all the more.

You shouldn't want a world filled with only people like me, but if you had any sense you wouldn't want a world without any people like me either. You may not be willing to admit it, but you need people like me, and you need us desperately, because we nudge, prod and poke you to look at yourself as you really are. You want to live in your fantasy world, but we won't let you. But sooner or later, whether I'm there or not, reality has a way of sneaking up on you and making itself known. All I do is point what's coming. And you hate it, because deep down you know I'm right.

[Guest Guest]

The idea of a world populated only by people just like me, or you, or any one of us, is a fantasy. There has never been such a world, and there never will be, unless an extreme form of science-fiction cloning comes to pass.

In the world we actually live in, each of us has many ways in which to contribute. Your vision of the world, obviously, is a vision of unquestioning obedience and conformity - as long as the world meets your personal criteria, of course. The world of your imagination is neat and orderly and freshly scrubbed, but only a certain kind of person would want to live in it. Contrary to what you may imagine, that person is not necessarily the healthiest or the finest or the most righteous. Very often, people who crave that much order are seeking to compensate for a perceived lack of order in their own lives. Quite often, they are willing to force order on others as a means of forcing it on themselves. They can't stand the idea that someone else might be having a good time while they're toeing the line. Quite often the need for that much order is a pathology.

In a world populated with people just like you, there would be very little room for a Beethoven or an Einstein or a Jefferson, all mavericks of the first order. We would not have the technology we have, or the advances in medicine, or the computers you and I are using to correspond on this forum. There would be no great art or music, no paradigm-shattering scientific discoveries, perhaps no science of astronomy or evolutionary biology or heart transplants - because a world filled with people like you would lack creativity and imagination. A world filled only with any one personality type would be completely different, and I don't mean better. Even in the military, where would the brilliant commanders come from? You think you see what the world would be like with people only like you or only like me, but you don't. I wouldn't want to live in a world of only people like me either, because that world would lack all the talents and abilities that I lack personally. But that's no less true of you, all the more because you don't see it.

You don't see the genius of a Martin Luther King or a Gandhi or even a Patton, because you seem to think that their contribution to human life is part of the natural order of things, as though it grew on a tree somewhere. It is part of the natural order of things, but it reaches its highest expression in societies that are open and free and truly value dissent.

I am a contrarian. I am drawn to dissonance and motivated to restore a semblance of order. I am willing to say what people don't want to hear, so I am not very popular. Sometimes, though, I'm right, and when I am, you hate it all the more.

You shouldn't want a world filled with only people like me, but if you had any sense you wouldn't want a world without any people like me either. You may not be willing to admit it, but you need people like me, and you need us desperately, because we nudge, prod and poke you to look at yourself as you really are. You want to live in your fantasy world, but we won't let you. But sooner or later, whether I'm there or not, reality has a way of sneaking up on you and making itself known. All I do is point what's coming. And you hate it, because deep down you know I'm right.

The really sad thing about your world is that you always believe you are right and that in itself is a fallacy. What you have created in your society is that the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the majority and that it is where I have fault with you. The last I knew this was a democracy and issues large and small should be treated as such to keep order. Without order, you have chaos very similar to the situation you and your son have created in this Kearny School system. It has affected everyone from teacher to student and not in a positive way either. And so life goes on in your perfect world and you still cannot distinguish between right and wrong. Pitty.

[Guest Guest]

They should understand better than anyone how anti-freedom it is to EXPECT someone to do something and then give them a hard time if they CHOOSE not to, even if they have a good reason.

Compulsory chanting is fascist, plain and simple.

I'm sure they do understand it very well. Their government EXPECTED them to submit to the insanity of war, up until the 70's, without a choice. I'd say the vast majority would still choose to stand for the pledge.

Exactly what is the good reason not to?

[Guest Patriot]

The idea of a world populated only by people just like me, or you, or any one of us, is a fantasy. There has never been such a world, and there never will be, unless an extreme form of science-fiction cloning comes to pass.

In the world we actually live in, each of us has many ways in which to contribute. Your vision of the world, obviously, is a vision of unquestioning obedience and conformity - as long as the world meets your personal criteria, of course. The world of your imagination is neat and orderly and freshly scrubbed, but only a certain kind of person would want to live in it. Contrary to what you may imagine, that person is not necessarily the healthiest or the finest or the most righteous. Very often, people who crave that much order are seeking to compensate for a perceived lack of order in their own lives. Quite often, they are willing to force order on others as a means of forcing it on themselves. They can't stand the idea that someone else might be having a good time while they're toeing the line. Quite often the need for that much order is a pathology.

In a world populated with people just like you, there would be very little room for a Beethoven or an Einstein or a Jefferson, all mavericks of the first order. We would not have the technology we have, or the advances in medicine, or the computers you and I are using to correspond on this forum. There would be no great art or music, no paradigm-shattering scientific discoveries, perhaps no science of astronomy or evolutionary biology or heart transplants - because a world filled with people like you would lack creativity and imagination. A world filled only with any one personality type would be completely different, and I don't mean better. Even in the military, where would the brilliant commanders come from? You think you see what the world would be like with people only like you or only like me, but you don't. I wouldn't want to live in a world of only people like me either, because that world would lack all the talents and abilities that I lack personally. But that's no less true of you, all the more because you don't see it.

You don't see the genius of a Martin Luther King or a Gandhi or even a Patton, because you seem to think that their contribution to human life is part of the natural order of things, as though it grew on a tree somewhere. It is part of the natural order of things, but it reaches its highest expression in societies that are open and free and truly value dissent.

I am a contrarian. I am drawn to dissonance and motivated to restore a semblance of order. I am willing to say what people don't want to hear, so I am not very popular. Sometimes, though, I'm right, and when I am, you hate it all the more.

You shouldn't want a world filled with only people like me, but if you had any sense you wouldn't want a world without any people like me either. You may not be willing to admit it, but you need people like me, and you need us desperately, because we nudge, prod and poke you to look at yourself as you really are. You want to live in your fantasy world, but we won't let you. But sooner or later, whether I'm there or not, reality has a way of sneaking up on you and making itself known. All I do is point what's coming. And you hate it, because deep down you know I'm right.

A typical ploy of Paul, pretending not to understand the statement which allows him to go off on

a long-winded dissertation of the world according to Paul. My message was (which you understood) was

if every adult male, past and present, was a limp-wristed, bleeding-heart leftist like yourself, the U.S.

would never have been able to defend America against the Japanese and Nazis in WW2.

Your leftist mentality (which you have obviously passed on to your son) is repulsive. Not standing

for the flag salute, while meaningless to you and junior, is a sign of respect to our country and it's

values. I saw a news clip on TV the other day of an Iraq veteran with one leg, pulling himself out of

his wheelchair to salute the flag during a ceremony when the President visited the hospital he was in.

You'll never understand that kind of patriotism, but it's the kind that allows you and junior to snub

the flag salute instead of being forced to stand and salute a Nazi flag.

[Guest Guest]

The really sad thing about your world is that you always believe you are right and that in itself is a fallacy.

How did he leave Christianity then (he used to be Christian, you know)? Do you think he's lived his whole life without ever changing his mind? Now THAT is fallacious. Absurd, really.

As for this topic, he IS right, so it's not fallacious for him to think he is. Uniforms accomplish nothing, and are a waste of money.

What you have created in your society is that the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the majority and that it is where I have fault with you.

Sorry, but in this country, individual freedom is more important than the might of the majority to throw their weight around.

The last I knew this was a democracy and issues large and small should be treated as such to keep order.

It took a dedicated minority to end slavery, get women the vote, allow interracial marriage, etc. If you think issues should all be treated through pure majority rules, you're living in the wrong country, buddy.

Without order, you have chaos very similar to the situation you and your son have created in this Kearny School system.

Paszkiewicz was the one who created chaos by stepping over the church/state separation line. Who's chaotic, the criminal or the citizen who reports him/her? Nonsensical logic.

It has affected everyone from teacher to student and not in a positive way either.

So, knowledge isn't positive? I see.

And so life goes on in your perfect world and you still cannot distinguish between right and wrong. Pitty.

You'll probably never know how ironic that statement is. It's a "pitty" your logic isn't better than your spelling.

[Guest Guest]

A typical ploy of Paul, pretending not to understand the statement which allows him to go off on

a long-winded dissertation of the world according to Paul. My message was (which you understood) was

if every adult male, past and present, was a limp-wristed, bleeding-heart leftist like yourself, the U.S.

would never have been able to defend America against the Japanese and Nazis in WW2.

No American has trouble fighting when there is a good reason, idiot.

Your leftist mentality (which you have obviously passed on to your son) is repulsive. Not standing

for the flag salute, while meaningless to you and junior, is a sign of respect to our country and it's

values.

A billion flag salutes are not more patriotic put together than what Matthew did to defend our Constitution. If only every act of saluting the flag was replaced with a true act of patriotism like his.

But what does saluting the flag have to do with not chanting a pledge of allegiance that contains an unconstitutional and disrespectful reference to a Christian deity?

I saw a news clip on TV the other day of an Iraq veteran with one leg, pulling himself out of

his wheelchair to salute the flag during a ceremony when the President visited the hospital he was in.

You'll never understand that kind of patriotism,

You'll never understand why that man's patriotism lies not in his salute, but in his service. Saluting the flag is not what makes someone a patriot. It's sad that you focus more on rhetoric than actual patriotic acts.

but it's the kind that allows you and junior to snub

the flag salute instead of being forced to stand and salute a Nazi flag.

Do you realize how stupid it is of you to give Matthew a hard time about not doing something (assuming he's actually not done it--only heard about him not saying the pledge of allegiance, nothing about not saluting the flag) that this country gives him the FREEDOM not to do? You'd LIKE to force him to, wouldn't you? What makes you better than those Nazis, then?

[Guest Guest]

Exactly what is the good reason not to [say the pledge]?

The unconstitutional phrase that was injected into it by lobbyists in the 1950s which disrespects all non-Christians in this country. It has no place being there.

[Guest Guest]

A typical ploy of Paul, pretending not to understand the statement which allows him to go off on

a long-winded dissertation of the world according to Paul. My message was (which you understood) was

if every adult male, past and present, was a limp-wristed, bleeding-heart leftist like yourself, the U.S.

would never have been able to defend America against the Japanese and Nazis in WW2.

Your leftist mentality (which you have obviously passed on to your son) is repulsive. Not standing

for the flag salute, while meaningless to you and junior, is a sign of respect to our country and it's

values. I saw a news clip on TV the other day of an Iraq veteran with one leg, pulling himself out of

his wheelchair to salute the flag during a ceremony when the President visited the hospital he was in.

You'll never understand that kind of patriotism, but it's the kind that allows you and junior to snub

the flag salute instead of being forced to stand and salute a Nazi flag.

You are the one who does not understand courage. It takes tremendous courage to go against what everyone else calls patriotism. Matthew is making the point that patriotism is taking action, really doing something, not just standing up and saluting because it's expected.

You are the one who refuses to respect. You do not respect dissent. Dissent is the foundation of freedom and democracy. Therefore, you do not respect freedom or democracy. You are the one spitting in the face of all the people who sacrificed and died to preserve our freedom.

You are the one who does not understand patriotism. Going against the grain is a high form of patriotism. Thomas Jefferson is often quoted as saying that dissent is the highest form of patriotism. He did not use those words, but he made the point many times.

You are the one who makes the flag salute and the pledge of allegiance meaningless. It becomes meaningless the minute you force it on people. You want to use peer pressure to force everyone to do it. You're the one making it meaningless.

You wish Paul was limp-wristed. What you hate about him most is that he is effective and he doesn't back down.

Your radical-right mentality is what is repulsive. You can only see the world one way. You're the one who has never changed your mind. You're the one it's impossible to have any real discussion with. Paul has very strong opinions, and he expresses them forcefully. That doesn't mean he isn't open to what other people have to say. You wouldn't know because you never have anything useful to say.

I say good for that Iraq veteran, provided he was doing it because he wanted to. I also say good for Matthew for reminding us that we still live in a free country. The biggest threat to that today is not the Nazis or even the terrorists. It's you.

[Guest Paul]

A typical ploy of Paul, pretending not to understand the statement which allows him to go off on

a long-winded dissertation of the world according to Paul. My message was (which you understood) was

if every adult male, past and present, was a limp-wristed, bleeding-heart leftist like yourself, the U.S.

would never have been able to defend America against the Japanese and Nazis in WW2.

Your leftist mentality (which you have obviously passed on to your son) is repulsive. Not standing

for the flag salute, while meaningless to you and junior, is a sign of respect to our country and it's

values. I saw a news clip on TV the other day of an Iraq veteran with one leg, pulling himself out of

his wheelchair to salute the flag during a ceremony when the President visited the hospital he was in.

You'll never understand that kind of patriotism, but it's the kind that allows you and junior to snub

the flag salute instead of being forced to stand and salute a Nazi flag.

Do you realize that you didn't address a single thing I wrote?

[Guest Guest]

The unconstitutional phrase that was injected into it by lobbyists in the 1950s which disrespects all non-Christians in this country. It has no place being there.

Really, it disrepects all non-Christians? You're really reaching now.

[Guest Guest]

Do you realize that you didn't address a single thing I wrote?

Nice try at ducking a heartfelt and accurate post by "Patriot".

[Guest Guest]

Nice try at ducking a heartfelt and accurate post by "Patriot".

PatRat's post may have been heartfelt, but it was stupid. Instead of being forced to salute the Nazi swastika, he would force everyone to salute the Stars and Stripes. When you do that, there's no difference any more.

[Guest Guest]

Nice try at ducking a heartfelt and accurate post by "Patriot".

Heartfelt? Accurate? You've got the wrong guy; Patrat's the exact opposite.

[Guest Seer]

Really, it disrepects all non-Christians?

It's as disrespectful to non-Christians as "under Allah" would be to non-Muslims.

Think about it.