Don't get sick tonight

[Guest curious]

OK, I took your suggestion and spoke to Chief McNeil. The fact that the EMS receives no funding from the Town and hasn't been "out of service" is quite an accomplishment.

But, I have to ask - is one rig enough to service the entire Town of Kearny? I don't think so. As recently as 2003 the Town was spending $43,000 on EMS. Since then - just $0. Does this make me feel safe? No, it doesn't. Does this improve my property values? No, it doesn't.

Still, I think I should re-phrase my earlier comment:

"In my opinion, you get what you pay for. No money in the budget for EMS means that there will be times when one EMS unit is not enough. Cut taxes from another line and pay the emergency squad something before someone gets killed and the finger-pointing starts. "

Jim Mangin

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Is this the mayor idea to give EMS 0 dollars? Who would make a cut in the budget and HURT all residents??? I hope something can get done before something bad happens to one of our residents. Its like waiting for a gorilla to pounce out at any time in front of you.People are scared.

[Guest Guest]

Is this the mayor idea to give EMS 0 dollars? Who would make a cut in the budget and HURT all residents??? I hope something can get done before something bad happens to one of our residents. Its like waiting for a gorilla to pounce out at any time in front of you.People are scared.

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You have to remember, "Kearny Emergency MEdical Services" is NO LONGER a town Entity..they are a private business..of course the Ambulances and other vehicles still have "MG" Plates, and they use a town building. But hey you get what you pay for..Everyone was up in arms about EMTAC from Irvington getting the initial Emergency contract, nevermind that in the months they were here they did a DAMN fine job.. KEMS was able to offer the town a better deal than EMTAC was..it's that simple...much like with ANY Govt contract you go with the lowest bidder..which really says something when we're talking about safety doesnt it??

[Guest Guest]

OK, I took your suggestion and spoke to Chief McNeil. The fact that the EMS receives no funding from the Town and hasn't been "out of service" is quite an accomplishment.

But, I have to ask - is one rig enough to service the entire Town of Kearny? I don't think so. As recently as 2003 the Town was spending $43,000 on EMS. Since then - just $0. Does this make me feel safe? No, it doesn't. Does this improve my property values? No, it doesn't.

Still, I think I should re-phrase my earlier comment:

"In my opinion, you get what you pay for. No money in the budget for EMS means that there will be times when one EMS unit is not enough. Cut taxes from another line and pay the emergency squad something before someone gets killed and the finger-pointing starts. "

Jim Mangin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wasn't it still a volunteer (majority) service at that time? And the town subsidized this service with $43,000 to be used for supplies and the like?

Since then, hasn't the squad become a non-volunteer service that was supposed to be self-sufficient? Why would they need any subsidy from the town? Unless you are saying that as a non-volunteer squad they are running in the red.

[Guest Guest]

Harrison and NA each have more than one rig in service......LET THE SQUAD GO.......JUST LET IT GO!!!!!!!

Mr Mangin

I was affiliated with the emergency squad for almost 20 years  I havee been both a volunteer and a paid staff member of the dept. Statistically over the past 20+ years the ambulance has responded to on average 10-11 ambulance calls per day. This volume can easily be handled by 1 ambulance. granted there are times when multiple requests for ambulance service come in at the same time and 1 ambulance cannot be in 2 places at the same tme. There have been long standing mutual aid agreements between kearny and the surrounding owns I.E. harrison north arlington newark jersey city and belleville. This agreement is a 2 way street. kearny sends an ambulance when they need one and they send one when kearny needs one.

The thing to you and others need to ask yourself is :

Is it cost effective to have multiple ambulances available during the course of the day

If it is cost effective who will pick up the burden of the additional cost. My answer to this is the town of kearny more precicely the municiple budget.

The cost for this extra manpower is probably in excess of 250,000 dollars per year  per ambulance.

If the mayor and town council decide that this is an essential  town service the monies need to cme from somewhere which would likely mean an increase in property taxes  If this is something you as a homeowner and a majority of the homeowners wold want then it can easily be done

As someone who was  involved in emergency services in the town of kearny for 20 years i can tell you that all 3 services police,fire and ems are all  understaffed and I personally would have no problem with my property taxes being increased if i could be guarenteed that te additional taxes would be used for additional staff.

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[Jim Mangin]

Mr Mangin

I was affiliated with the emergency squad for almost 20 years  I havee been both a volunteer and a paid staff member of the dept. Statistically over the past 20+ years the ambulance has responded to on average 10-11 ambulance calls per day. This volume can easily be handled by 1 ambulance. granted there are times when multiple requests for ambulance service come in at the same time and 1 ambulance cannot be in 2 places at the same tme. There have been long standing mutual aid agreements between kearny and the surrounding owns I.E. harrison north arlington newark jersey city and belleville. This agreement is a 2 way street. kearny sends an ambulance when they need one and they send one when kearny needs one.

The thing to you and others need to ask yourself is :

Is it cost effective to have multiple ambulances available during the course of the day

If it is cost effective who will pick up the burden of the additional cost. My answer to this is the town of kearny more precicely the municiple budget.

The cost for this extra manpower is probably in excess of 250,000 dollars per year  per ambulance.

If the mayor and town council decide that this is an essential  town service the monies need to cme from somewhere which would likely mean an increase in property taxes  If this is something you as a homeowner and a majority of the homeowners wold want then it can easily be done

As someone who was  involved in emergency services in the town of kearny for 20 years i can tell you that all 3 services police,fire and ems are all  understaffed and I personally would have no problem with my property taxes being increased if i could be guarenteed that te additional taxes would be used for additional staff.

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Turk,

You would know better than me, so let me ask this. When you say that statistically the 20 year average has been 10-11 calls per day and that one rig should be able to handle this volume, is the rate today still 10-11 calls per day? Let's face it, using statistics over a 20 year period could yield some un-realistic results. For example, if the rate for the past 5 years was 25 calls per day, but for the previous 15 years it was only 6 per day - the 20 year average would be 10-11 calls per day. But our one rig would still be fielding 25 calls per day which would be an enormous drain on our mutual aid partners.

With all the litigation, liability and CYA involved in accidents these days, what is the current average number of calls handled by EMS? And more importantly, how many calls come in when the one rig is handling a previous call? I'm sure the number of calls during the over-night is less than during the day. Are 10-11 calls per day being handled by our EMS, while another 5-6 calls are handled via mututal aid?

I have no idea what the answers to these questions are. I just think these are the questions the Town Council should be asking before making the decision to reduce the EMS budget to $0. That's all.

Jim Mangin

[Jim Mangin]

You have to remember, "Kearny Emergency MEdical Services" is NO LONGER a town Entity..they are a private business..of course the Ambulances and other vehicles still have "MG" Plates, and they use a town building.  But hey  you get what you pay for..Everyone was up in arms about EMTAC from Irvington getting the initial Emergency contract, nevermind that in the months they were here they did a DAMN fine job.. KEMS was able to offer the town a better deal than EMTAC was..it's that simple...much like with ANY Govt contract you go with the lowest bidder..which really says something when we're talking about safety doesnt it??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree - while here, EMTAC did a damn fine job.

But do you remember how much we paid per month for that service?

Jim Mangin

[Guest Guest]

Turk,

You would know better than me, so let me ask this. When you say that statistically the 20 year average has been 10-11 calls per day and that one rig should be able to handle this volume, is the rate today still 10-11 calls per day? Let's face it, using statistics over a 20 year period could yield some un-realistic results. For example, if the rate for the past 5 years was 25 calls per day, but for the previous 15 years it was only 6 per day - the 20 year average would be 10-11 calls per day. But our one rig would still be fielding 25 calls per day which would be an enormous drain on our mutual aid partners.

Jim Mangin

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Jim, I believe Turk means that if you look at each individual year, the average calls per day is 10-11. Not that the 20 year average is 10-11 and can have the statisitcal imperfection you refer to.

Also, you never answered my questions:

Wasn't it still a volunteer (majority) service at that time?  And the town subsidized this service with $43,000 to be used for supplies and the like?

Since then, hasn't the squad become a non-volunteer service that was supposed to be self-sufficient?  Why would they need any subsidy from the town?  Unless you are saying that as a non-volunteer squad they are running in the red.

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[Guest Guest]

ummmmmmmmm 30 Thousand a month!

[Guest Guest_turk182_*]

Jim, I believe Turk means that if you look at each individual year, the average calls per day is 10-11.  Not that the 20 year average is 10-11 and can have the statisitcal imperfection you refer to.

Also, you never answered my questions:

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Jim

The poster is corect I may not have explained it correctly If you look at the stats each year individually The average is 10-11 calls per day and a day is a 24 hour period yes the volume is lower in the evening hours usually after 11pm

And this average hs not changed significantly over the last 20 years althoughimust admit i do not have statistics for the last 2-3 years.

Yes Kearny EMS is a full time paid entity contracted by the town of kearny to provide ambulance srvice. and with the call volume that kearny has it can provide the service it does with no extra monies paid to the ambulance ervice from the town budget Kearny EMS generates its operating revenue from billing the patients it takes to the hospital but just barely

If an additional ambulance were to b added Kearny EMS would need to subsidise the cost for this additional ambulance by having a flat fee paid to it by the town for the whole year and that cost would b in the neighborhood of 250000 dollars if that second ambulance were to be in service 24 hours a day

If that amount of money seems high remember that to staff the ambulance around the clock you would need to hire 8 additional full time employees and several per-diem empoyees so factoring in base salary benefits and such thats where the seemingly lage amount comes from

[Guest Guest]

Jim,

On the other thread you are asking Guest99 to respond to your post, but again, you never answered my from above.

[Guest Guest]

I have to agree - while here, EMTAC did a damn fine job.

But do you remember how much we paid per month for that service?

Jim Mangin

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Yes Jim, but wasnt the monies that EMTAC billed taken OFF of the Town's bill?? I forget the exact numbers involved, but i was under the impression that the town paid a flat fee, LESS the income that Emtac genreated. So if Emtak Billed the town lets say $100,000.00, but they billed out $85,000.00 in services, the Town's bill then would be $15,000.00. Or am I incorrect?

[Guest Speed]

Yes Jim, but wasnt the monies that EMTAC billed taken OFF of the Town's bill??  I forget the exact numbers involved, but i was under the impression that the town paid a flat fee, LESS the income that Emtac genreated.  So if Emtak Billed the town lets say $100,000.00, but they billed out $85,000.00 in services, the Town's bill then would be $15,000.00.  Or am I incorrect?

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Most would rather use their fire insurance then their life insurance. This subject is a real management debacle. Perhaps it is time the Towns OEM director takes full control of this vital emergency service division

[Guest Guest_turk182_*]

Yes Jim, but wasnt the monies that EMTAC billed taken OFF of the Town's bill??  I forget the exact numbers involved, but i was under the impression that the town paid a flat fee, LESS the income that Emtac genreated.  So if Emtak Billed the town lets say $100,000.00, but they billed out $85,000.00 in services, the Town's bill then would be $15,000.00.  Or am I incorrect?

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Unfortunately sir you are incorrect I worked for EMTAC and was stationed in Kearny at the time they were providing the service It was a flat fee of 30000 per month and any monies EMTAC generated through medical billing of patients transported to the hospital they kept

Also it was supposed to be a temporary measure which was to last only three months which wound up being almost a year

[Guest Guest]

we need real EMS service in this town!!!!! stop with the phony bologna service

[Guest Guest]

Unfortunately sir you are incorrect  I worked for EMTAC and was stationed in Kearny at the time they were providing the service  It was a flat fee of 30000 per month and any monies EMTAC generated through medical billing of patients transported to the hospital they kept

Also it was supposed to be a temporary measure which was to last only three months which wound up being almost a year

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, maybe it was the competetive-bid contract i was thinking of perchance, rather than the emergency contract?

[Jim Mangin]

Unfortunately sir you are incorrect  I worked for EMTAC and was stationed in Kearny at the time they were providing the service  It was a flat fee of 30000 per month and any monies EMTAC generated through medical billing of patients transported to the hospital they kept

Also it was supposed to be a temporary measure which was to last only three months which wound up being almost a year

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The contract with EMTAC did call for them to reduce their monthly bill by the amount they collected. But, EMTAC's billing collections are probably several months behind the time they actually provided the service. I don't recall ever seeing a payment reduced or a contra-payment against the budgeted item. I'll have to go back and check.

So, to answer the question - Yes, EMTAC was supposed to reduce their monthly charge, but I don't know if this ever happened.

Jim Mangin

[Jim Mangin]

Wasn't it still a volunteer (majority) service at that time?  And the town subsidized this service with $43,000 to be used for supplies and the like?

Since then, hasn't the squad become a non-volunteer service that was supposed to be self-sufficient?  Why would they need any subsidy from the town?  Unless you are saying that as a non-volunteer squad they are running in the red.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When the Town budgeted for EMS it was a voluntary (majority) service. The money budgeted was used for supplies, etc. It was the frequencies of the times the volunteer squad was out of service led to the contract with EMTAC.

To then compete with EMTAC the volunteer service re-formed as the Kearny EMS. They proposed to provide the service with two rigs at no cost to the Town. So, KEMS was in, EMTAC was out.

Eventually, operating two rigs became financially impossible. So, KEMS came back to the Town. The Mayor and Council could have resumed budgeting for emergency medical services, or let KEMS run with only one rig. They chose the latter.

I can understand (somewhat) the Town’s decision for the remainder of that first year, since there was no money budgeted. But beyond that, not budgeting means that the Mayor and Council feel that the one rig is sufficient. I disagree. I think the Town budgeting money for an ambulance service is money well spent – especially given some of the over-priced items that do appear in the budget. As I’ve said before, if you want examples I’ll gladly give them.

Jim Mangin