Defeatocrats Outraged

[Bern]

Knock off the Semper Fi. No way you're a marine. You're probably some 5'2" fat 14 year old.

72199[/snapback]

Nope. A bitter old bag who life has passed by.

[Bern]

Since this 'swamp draining', as you call it, has been going on, Spain and the UK have both been attacked. That would indicate that our military operations in Iraq have not had any effect on the crazy pepole blowing up things in Western countries.

When there is another attack on US soil, what will your spin be then? Point is, the war has nothing to do with terrorist attacks on the West because Iraqis never attcked the United States.

72250[/snapback]

The spin will be that we will have to bolster out forces, a super surge and go after the terrorists in Iran and Pakistan.

They'll also claim that Bush's policies would have prevented the attack were it not for the defeatist Democrats opposing Bush in giving him everything he wanted. Then they'll push for additional laws, allowing the government to spy on every facet of your life without warrant and giving them the power to preventively detain any suspect without trial.

In the battle between freedom and fascism, freedom has to win over and over. Fascism just has to win once. A free society allows all types of expression, including the right of fascists to protest and organize. When the fascists win, its over. Then no one else will be allowed to protest or organize.

[Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo]

Do tell.

How many of those resolutions stem from a ceasefire between the U.S. and Israel?

In what way has the U.S. gone against any sanctions against Israel suggested under the force of the UN?

Please also note that the Iraq War was and is in the best interests of the people of the United States (though it's fair to note that a majority fail to realize it at the moment).

72553[/snapback]

......and you'll be shipping out when?

[Guest Radagast]

Where is Isreal?

72720[/snapback]

Sorry about that. How do you spell A-N-A-L ?

[Guest 2smart4u]

The spin will be that we will have to bolster out forces, a super surge and go after the terrorists in Iran and Pakistan.

They'll also claim that Bush's policies would have prevented the attack were it not for the defeatist Democrats opposing Bush in giving him everything he wanted. Then they'll push for additional laws, allowing the government to spy on every facet of your life without warrant and giving them the power to preventively detain any suspect without trial.

In the battle between freedom  and fascism, freedom has to win over and over. Fascism just has to win once. A free society allows all types of expression, including the right of fascists to protest and organize. When the fascists win, its over. Then no one else will be allowed to protest or organize.

72745[/snapback]

Your last paragraph (freedom, fascism, free society, expression, protest, organize, win, lose ) makes NO sense. Lay off the Kool-aid.

[Strife767]

Your last paragraph (freedom, fascism, free society, expression, protest, organize, win, lose ) makes NO sense.

That's because you're an imbecile.

[Guest Paul]

Your last paragraph (freedom, fascism, free society, expression, protest, organize, win, lose ) makes NO sense. Lay off the Kool-aid.

72953[/snapback]

It means that once a country falls into dictatorship, it's very hard to regain freedom.

[Guest Guest]

Your last paragraph (freedom, fascism, free society, expression, protest, organize, win, lose ) makes NO sense. Lay off the Kool-aid.

72953[/snapback]

ANOTHER ASININE Kool-Aid statement from 2dumb2understand who has NOTHING of substance to say.

[Guest Guest]

Your last paragraph (freedom, fascism, free society, expression, protest, organize, win, lose ) makes NO sense. Lay off the Kool-aid.

72953[/snapback]

Hmmmm.....I understood it. What's your problem.

[Guest Guest]

Your last paragraph (freedom, fascism, free society, expression, protest, organize, win, lose ) makes NO sense. Lay off the Kool-aid.

72953[/snapback]

It makes perfect sense. You're just too stupid to understand.

[Bryan]

POPPYCOCK!

That's an opinion at best and I don't beieve a very well founded one.

Well, at least your opinion is well-founded.

How is pissing away thousands of American lives and hundreds of billions of dollars to depose some tinpot despot who may well be replaced by someone even worse while our attackers' organization ci=ontinues to operate in over 40 countries in the best interest of the people of the US?

First, let's take out the portions of your question that result in the fallacy of the complex question (inserting a questionable premise that is affirmed whether the question is addressed affirmatively or negatively).

How was the Iraq War worth it?

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...indpost&p=63812

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...indpost&p=61319

Think what you like but your opinion is unsupported by fact.

72687[/snapback]

My opinion is supported by my knowledge of foreign events and foreign policy. I know the position Iraq plays in the Middle East politically and economically to some degree, as well as the role of most of its neighbors. I know the history of the Iraq War (including the economic motives of the nations who opposed the attack).

In the end one judges foreign policy moves according to the history of similar types of foreign policy moves. The Democrat-led concession of South Vietnam led to a period of unprecedented (substitute unpresidented if you wish) American weakness in the world (Ford and Carter were weak presidents in the wake of Watergate). The backward slide was reversed by Ronald Reagan. The relatively recent release of Soviet records showed that the USSR was about as bad as Reagan said it was.

The weakness of the US had two reasons. First, Congress acted to reign in presidential power because of Nixon. Ford and Carter lived with that limitation.

Second, the international community took note of what it takes to beat a powerful democracy. Draw out the war and sap the will of the opposition with discouraging media images.

Reinforce the second impression in Iraq and kiss U.S. leadership in the world goodbye. Probably nothing would stop our slide to irrelevance after that. Though some events might slow it down.

Review the tides of history. Epochs hinge on events like these.

[Guest 2smart4u]

It means that once a country falls into dictatorship, it's very hard to regain freedom.

72989[/snapback]

In the context of the U.S. it makes no sense (like I've already said). Lay off the

Kool-aid.

[KNJ]

I want to ask sincerely...why are threads like these started? What do Patriot and the others have to gain by being so antagonistic? Are they just trying to rile people up for riling up's sake?

[Bryan]

......and you'll be shipping out when?

72814[/snapback]

They don't need me on the front yet. They probably can't deploy me anyway over your objections. By the time I got there you'd bring me home so that the terrorists can win the round.

Seriously, it's pretty funny how that line tends to come out when your side has no real argument left.

Only someone serving in our military can have a relevant stance on the war. And by the way, vote Clinton/Obama/Edwards.

[Guest a proud american]

In the context of the U.S. it makes no sense (like I've already said). Lay off the

  Kool-aid.

73050[/snapback]

Actually, to a person who still has an open mind it makes perfect sense.

Under this administration, the power no longer is in the hands of the people. This country has been taken over by neo-cons who see the world as good versus evil.

And in the President, they have the perfect patsy. You can't see it because you choose to believe everything he says. 9/11. Not his fault. Invades Iraq. Faulty intelligence. 190,000 weapons missing. Someone elses fault. Torture. Not on his watch, but just to be safe, classify everything so no one gets to look at the information. It's just easier to hide the truth than it is allow the american people to know what their leaders are up to.

And the great decider will protect you. If he is doing the job you claim he's doing than why does he always come back to 9/11. I'll give you a hint. He has nothing left.

This is what his ilk does. Play the fear game and the loyal subjects will buy into it and I may remain the leader, unquestioned. Except most people but the ones who are truly lost causes no longer believe his garbage.

You're supposed to be so much smarter and intelligent than I am. Maybe that's your problem I don't know. But I know this. It's going to take years to clean up the mess he's made and I almost hope that a Republican does win in 08. This way when the deck of cards come tumbling down, you won't have us kool-aiders to blame. Unfortunately, we'll be suffering right along with you so there will be no satisfaction in saying we tried to tell you

[Guest 2smart4u]

Actually, to a person who still has an open mind it makes perfect sense.

Under this administration, the power no longer is in the hands of the people. This country has been taken over by neo-cons who see the world as good versus evil.

And in the President, they have the perfect patsy. You can't see it because you choose to believe everything he says. 9/11. Not his fault. Invades Iraq. Faulty intelligence. 190,000 weapons missing. Someone elses fault. Torture. Not on his watch, but just to be safe, classify everything so no one gets to look at the information. It's just easier to hide the truth than it is allow the american people to know what their leaders are up to.

And the great decider will protect you. If he is doing the job you claim he's doing than why does he always come back to 9/11. I'll give you a hint. He has nothing left.

This is what his ilk does. Play the fear game and the loyal subjects will buy into it and I may remain the leader, unquestioned. Except most people but the ones who are truly lost causes no longer believe his garbage.

You're supposed to be so much smarter and intelligent than I am. Maybe that's your problem I don't know. But I know this. It's going to take years to clean up the mess he's made and I almost hope that a Republican does win in 08. This way when the deck of cards come tumbling down, you won't have us kool-aiders to blame. Unfortunately, we'll be suffering right along with you so there will be no satisfaction in saying we tried to tell you

73526[/snapback]

You must be a Rosie O'Donnell follower, she thinks 9/11 was Bush's fault too.

Paranoia is a terrible thing, kick the Kool-aid and get the help you need. Good

luck.

[Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo.]

They don't need me on the front yet.  They probably can't deploy me anyway over your objections.  By the time I got there you'd bring me home so that the terrorists can win the round.

Seriously, it's pretty funny how that line tends to come out when your side has no real argument left.

Only someone serving in our military can have a relevant stance on the war.  And by the way, vote Clinton/Obama/Edwards.

73202[/snapback]

Really? Have you tried? Have you talked to a recruiter? Maybe sent a resume to the state dept.? They need diplomats Bryan so why don't you give it a shot? Clearly you have all the answers and clearly illegal, immoral and corporate war appeals to you so naturally I have to wonder why you aren't making more of an effort to go to Iraq straighten things out.

What is "my side" anyway? Seems to me like you are doing an awful lot of assuming. My side is not that of liberal or conservative. My side is that of a citizen taxpayer who is tired of being lied to and stolen from. Speaking of sides Bryan, why does your side always revert to "the terrorists win" if someone so much as criticizes this administration? How many more potential terrorists do you think are out there since our debacle in Iraq? Sure, we need to fight terrorism but we need to do it with intelligence not belligerence.

No real arguement left? You said.

What more needs to be said. The president completely forgot about Bin Laden, the real boogeyman, right? Meanwhile Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater and untold other "contractors" are making obscene profits off this war on money we borrowed from China with no end in sight. An administration that advocates torture and shrugs off treasonous acts while this country is spiraling into bankruptcy. The list goes on an on. So tell me Bryan, how much more of a F**KING argument do you need?

[Guest Guest]

You must be a Rosie O'Donnell follower, she thinks 9/11 was Bush's fault too.

  Paranoia is a terrible thing, kick the Kool-aid and get the help you need. Good

  luck.

73544[/snapback]

When you belch does it smell like Bill O'Reilly's ass?

[Guest Guest]

You must be a Rosie O'Donnell follower, she thinks 9/11 was Bush's fault too.

  Paranoia is a terrible thing, kick the Kool-aid and get the help you need. Good

  luck.

73544[/snapback]

If anyone needs help it's you. You need to kick the elusion of thinking ASININE Kool-Aid remarks can be substituted for something factual and sensible.

[Guest Guest]

You must be a Rosie O'Donnell follower, she thinks 9/11 was Bush's fault too.

  Paranoia is a terrible thing, kick the Kool-aid and get the help you need. Good

  luck.

73544[/snapback]

Ah, it's all so simple for 2dim2crossthestreetalone. Why sweat the details, like

--- $800 billion dollars wasted for a war that has lasted longer than WWII and can't be won because it's objectives aren't military;

--- systematic dismantling of the middle class so that W's super-rich friends could get richer;

--- ripping huge holes in the Constitution with things like suspension of habeas corpus;

--- destroying our country's image and standing in the world . . .

Why bother going on? 2dim and his ilk aren't listening. If you disagree with them, you're every bad thing they can think of, from paranoid to treasonous.

A democracy really can't hold together like that. It's up to reasonable people to see it and put these people in their place. We can't keep trying to mollify them. They're like the spoiled child in a family. They'll never be satisfied. We have to put our collective foot down, even if it means that the 2dims yell and scream.

After all, they will anyway.

[Guest a proud american]

Really? Have you tried? Have you talked to a recruiter? Maybe sent a resume to the state dept.? They need diplomats Bryan so why don't you give it a shot? Clearly you have all the answers and clearly illegal, immoral and corporate war appeals to you so naturally I have to wonder why you aren't making more of an effort to go to Iraq straighten things out.

What is "my side" anyway? Seems to me like you are doing an awful lot of assuming. My side is not that of liberal or conservative. My side is that of a citizen taxpayer who is tired of being lied to and stolen from. Speaking of sides Bryan, why does your side always revert to "the terrorists win" if someone so much as criticizes this administration? How many more potential terrorists do you think are out there since our debacle in Iraq? Sure, we need to fight terrorism but we need to do it with intelligence not belligerence.

    No real arguement left? You said.

What more needs to be said. The president completely forgot about Bin Laden, the real boogeyman, right? Meanwhile Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater and untold other "contractors" are making obscene profits off this war on money we borrowed from China with no end in sight. An administration that advocates torture and shrugs off treasonous acts while this country is spiraling into bankruptcy. The list goes on an on. So tell me Bryan, how much more of a F**KING argument do you need?

73549[/snapback]

Keith, you forgot your citations. Common sense doesn't count.

And to 2dim, it's the President and the 9/11 kid who keeps bringing up the subject.

The best one though was the hearings the other day where the IG said he asked his brother if he was on the Blackwater BOD and he said no. Then after lunch he said he talked to his brother Buzzy and he said not only was he on the board, he told him three weeks before that he was. Citation for Bryan. The actual Congressioinal Hearings.

And of course having a Presidential Daily Briefing in August 01 headline Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US where the possibility of flying an aircfaft into a building was included was certainly no reason for Bush to be alarmed. Perhaps if all of the important information could have been condensed into two or three pages the fool might actually have read it.

Oh well Keith, so much for an attempt to reason with people who live in fantasy land. And by the way 2dim, are you working at Wal Mart next friday? If so please make sure all of the shelves in your aisle are stocked.

[Bryan]

Really?

Really do they not need me? Really. The armed services have been meeting their recruitment goals despite well-publicized hand-wringing.

Have you tried?

Why should I try when we have enough soldiers and we are winning?

Have you talked to a recruiter?

See above.

Maybe sent a resume to the state dept.? They need diplomats Bryan so why don't you give it a shot?

I'm lousy at foreign languages.

Clearly you have all the answers and clearly illegal, immoral and corporate war appeals to you so naturally I have to wonder why you aren't making more of an effort to go to Iraq straighten things out.

It's more important to straighten out the civilian nincompoops here. They're the main reason we might lose the war.

What is "my side" anyway?

The side that's disagreeing with my view. Unless you'd prefer to agree with me?

Seems to me like you are doing an awful lot of assuming.

Like what?

My side is not that of liberal or conservative. My side is that of a citizen taxpayer who is tired of being lied to and stolen from. Speaking of sides Bryan, why does your side always revert to "the terrorists win" if someone so much as criticizes this administration?

If that's my side then where have I done that reversion?

How many more potential terrorists do you think are out there since our debacle in Iraq?

What is a "potential terrorist"? Overall world population has probably risen slightly.

Sure, we need to fight terrorism but we need to do it with intelligence not belligerence.

So what do you suggest? Or is the intelligence supposed to come from elsewhere? How about Barack Obama's suggestion that we strike al Qaeda in Pakistan even if the Pakistanis don't want us to do it? Do you like that one?

No real arguement left? You said.

What more needs to be said. The president completely forgot about Bin Laden, the real boogeyman, right?

I think only fools think that Bin Laden was forgotten. He has been pursued proportional to his importance in conjunction with our capability (I'm operating under the assumption that he's probably in/near Pakistan).

Meanwhile Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater and untold other "contractors" are making obscene profits off this war on money we borrowed from China with no end in sight.

According to KBR's latest quarterly report, the profit margin on military services is 3.8 percent. (Typical defense contracts yield profit margins of 7 percent.) With a profit margin that razor thin, the company has to be efficient, says Jim Wicklund, an energy industry analyst for Bank of America Securities.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1559574

By "obscene" you mean "razor-thin"?

An administration that advocates torture and shrugs off treasonous acts while this country is spiraling into bankruptcy. The list goes on an on. So tell me Bryan, how much more of a F**KING argument do you need?

73549[/snapback]

You could try presenting an argument that has something other than made-up facts in it. A list of made-up stuff that goes on and on isn't worth much.

When you have no argument left you also start making stuff up.

[Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo]

Really do they not need me?  Really.  The armed services have been meeting their recruitment goals despite well-publicized hand-wringing.

Why should I try when we have enough soldiers and we are winning?

See above.

I'm lousy at foreign languages.

It's more important to straighten out the civilian nincompoops here.  They're the main reason we might lose the war.

The side that's disagreeing with my view.  Unless you'd prefer to agree with me?

Like what? 

If that's my side then where have I done that reversion?

What is a "potential terrorist"?  Overall world population has probably risen slightly.

So what do you suggest?  Or is the intelligence supposed to come from elsewhere?  How about Barack Obama's suggestion that we strike al Qaeda in Pakistan even if the Pakistanis don't want us to do it?  Do you like that one?

No real arguement left? You said.

What more needs to be said. The president completely forgot about Bin Laden, the real boogeyman, right?

I think only fools think that Bin Laden was forgotten.  He has been pursued proportional to his importance in conjunction with our capability (I'm operating under the assumption that he's probably in/near Pakistan).

Meanwhile Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater and untold other "contractors" are making obscene profits off this war on money we borrowed from China with no end in sight.

According to KBR's latest quarterly report, the profit margin on military services is 3.8 percent. (Typical defense contracts yield profit margins of 7 percent.) With a profit margin that razor thin, the company has to be efficient, says Jim Wicklund, an energy industry analyst for Bank of America Securities.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1559574

By "obscene" you mean "razor-thin"?

An administration that advocates torture and shrugs off treasonous acts while this country is spiraling into bankruptcy. The list goes on an on. So tell me Bryan, how much more of a F**KING argument do you need?

73549[/snapback]

You could try presenting an argument that has something other than made-up facts in it.  A list of made-up stuff that goes on and on isn't worth much.

When you have no argument left you also start making stuff up.

73971[/snapback]

Made up? What exactly have I made up?

[Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo]

Really do they not need me?  Really.  The armed services have been meeting their recruitment goals despite well-publicized hand-wringing.

Why should I try when we have enough soldiers and we are winning?

See above.

I'm lousy at foreign languages.

It's more important to straighten out the civilian nincompoops here.  They're the main reason we might lose the war.

The side that's disagreeing with my view.  Unless you'd prefer to agree with me?

Like what? 

If that's my side then where have I done that reversion?

What is a "potential terrorist"?  Overall world population has probably risen slightly.

So what do you suggest?  Or is the intelligence supposed to come from elsewhere?  How about Barack Obama's suggestion that we strike al Qaeda in Pakistan even if the Pakistanis don't want us to do it?  Do you like that one?

No real arguement left? You said.

What more needs to be said. The president completely forgot about Bin Laden, the real boogeyman, right?

I think only fools think that Bin Laden was forgotten.  He has been pursued proportional to his importance in conjunction with our capability (I'm operating under the assumption that he's probably in/near Pakistan).

Meanwhile Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater and untold other "contractors" are making obscene profits off this war on money we borrowed from China with no end in sight.

According to KBR's latest quarterly report, the profit margin on military services is 3.8 percent. (Typical defense contracts yield profit margins of 7 percent.) With a profit margin that razor thin, the company has to be efficient, says Jim Wicklund, an energy industry analyst for Bank of America Securities.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1559574

By "obscene" you mean "razor-thin"?

An administration that advocates torture and shrugs off treasonous acts while this country is spiraling into bankruptcy. The list goes on an on. So tell me Bryan, how much more of a F**KING argument do you need?

73549[/snapback]

You could try presenting an argument that has something other than made-up facts in it.  A list of made-up stuff that goes on and on isn't worth much.

When you have no argument left you also start making stuff up.

73971[/snapback]

Ok, your source is 4 years old. Also, they consider netting 900 Million a quarter razor thin. Boo Hoo . I consider it obscene. It also bothers mean tremendously that Dick Cheny is way to chummy with Haliburton. Actually more like a conflict of interest.

As long as were using your source Bryan, did you bother to read any on the related links under the story that you linked to?

Morning Edition, December 12, 2003 · A senior Defense Department official says a Pentagon audit has found evidence that a subsidiary of Halliburton may have overcharged the U.S. government by as much as $61 million for fuel deliveries in Iraq. The company, formerly run by Vice President Dick Cheney, admits no wrongdoing. Hear NPR's John Burnett.

Morning Edition, November 6, 2003 · The U.S. military is considering whether to drop a contract with Halliburton. The company is accused of overcharging for the gasoline it distributes in Iraq for the U.S. government. NPR's John Burnett reports.

and there is more.

This is all from only one source. Do you want to get into a source war Bryan? Something tells me that alot more negative than positive can be found about Haliburton, etc.

Maybe this is all ok with you Bryan, being lied to stolen from, treated like a pasty and fool. Well, it's not ok with me.

[Guest Guest]

Why should I try when we have enough soldiers and we are winning?

Enjoying that bridge you bought in Brooklyn are you?

How's the construction going on that swamp you bought in Florida?

Got your letter to Santa written yet?

Think the Easter bunny'll be good to you this year?

How's the weather there in FantasyLand?