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Guest Bill Clinton

You can help in world peace or lower unemployment, but you get one b*****b in the white house and everyone hates you.

KOTW Note: The above post was edited for content.

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Guest Radagast
I don't care that he was indiscreet, that's his problem.  He lied under oath, and denied a citizen of a constitutionally protected right to a fair trial.  He could have forfeited the case against Paula Jones, and none of his testimony would have been necessary.

Since he didn't do that, his administration succumbed to his own arrogance.

Besides, he promised to make the people responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing pay for their crime.  Fact is, George is doing just that.  Remember facts, facts, facts.  Without them you continue to lose all arguments.

Loki, I believe that Ramzi Yousef the mastermind of the 1993 WTC bombing was arrested in 1995 in Pakistan and is still in a US prison. I think Clinton was President then.

So how is BushCo making the people responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing pay for their crime?

Do you mean Osama? Didn't he escape from Afghanistan under our noses?

Are you saying that the 10's of thousands of people in Iraq who's deaths we caused by invading were to blame for that bombing? Well, then you're right, we sure showed them.

Are you saying it was Saddam? You can believe that if you want but you have no proof and it defies logic.

Remember facts facts facts ... not just what you want to believe.

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I don't care that he was indiscreet, that's his problem.  He lied under oath, and denied a citizen of a constitutionally protected right to a fair trial.  He could have forfeited the case against Paula Jones, and none of his testimony would have been necessary.

Since he didn't do that, his administration succumbed to his own arrogance.

Besides, he promised to make the people responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing pay for their crime.  Fact is, George is doing just that.  Remember facts, facts, facts.  Without them you continue to lose all arguments.

Clinton lied. Georgie Boy lied. Hmmm.....let's see. Which lie renders the more serious consequence? The personal lie about extramarital dalliances....the national lie about non-existent weapons of mass destruction? Infidelity....war? Wow, that's a toughie!

If Clinton's administration "succumbed", then we sure could use some more of that succumbing stuff. It was the best, most prosperous eight years in recent history.

I think if you check your facts, you'll find that the mastermind of the '93 WTC bombing was apprehended during the Clinton administration, but Osama is still out there, isn't he?

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Loki, I believe that Ramzi Yousef the mastermind of the 1993 WTC bombing was arrested in 1995 in Pakistan and is still in a US prison. I think Clinton was President then.

So how is BushCo making the people responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing pay for their crime?

Do you mean Osama? Didn't he escape from Afghanistan under our noses?

Are you saying that the 10's of thousands of people in Iraq who's deaths we caused by invading were to blame for that bombing? Well, then you're right, we sure showed them.

Are you saying it was Saddam? You can believe that if you want but you have no proof and it defies logic.

Remember facts facts facts ... not just what you want to believe.

Ramzi Youssef wasn't part of alQaeda or connected to bin Laden, are you joking???

He might have been the mastermind, and the one who pulled the trigger, but he wasn't the entire plot.

Please tell me you are smarter than that, I always thought so.

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Loki, I believe that Ramzi Yousef the mastermind of the 1993 WTC bombing was arrested in 1995 in Pakistan and is still in a US prison. I think Clinton was President then.

So how is BushCo making the people responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing pay for their crime?

Do you mean Osama? Didn't he escape from Afghanistan under our noses?

Are you saying that the 10's of thousands of people in Iraq who's deaths we caused by invading were to blame for that bombing? Well, then you're right, we sure showed them.

Are you saying it was Saddam? You can believe that if you want but you have no proof and it defies logic.

Remember facts facts facts ... not just what you want to believe.

How many times did Clinton let Osama get away?

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Very nice! Clinton might have been indiscreet with an intern, but Georgie is screwing the whole country!

Just indiscreet? I hope your daughter or grand daughter is never treated that way. I wonder what you would call it then?

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"Ok... like I said if the shoe fits... wingnut"

See...that's your stock and trade.

"The property values started rising at a good clip in Kearny in 1996. They haven't gone down since then. So how is Bushy Boy's wonderful economy the reason for something that started while Clinton was in office?"

You mean that was the residual from Daddy Bush's administration. Not to mention the fact that everything else was controlled by the Republican Party.

"So Baby Bush is the new Franklin Roosevelt keeping us off soup lines .... what a guy! Oh and who would be making obscene profits off of the gas price rise... oil companies... Bush pals in Texas and Saudi Arabia.."

According to you companies should now operate at zero profits or some profit level that you feel makes them nice guys...that's a good one...no more free market. Not to mention the fact that the animals you like to defend blew up the financial hub of the world and they still can't derail the economy. I think the current administration gets some credit for that.

"What does Europe have to do with the United States? I'm stupid like most Americans... consumer confidence is the lowest since 1973 (Hmmm... who was President then?) so I guess that makes a whole lot of stupid people who don't know how good they have it."

Did you ever wonder why Europeans that vacation here set aside time to go shopping for clothes, shoes, etc. It's because they cant't afford it in their own countries. Inside of every Europeon is an American waiting to get out.

"Oh yeah, Corzine has a lot of money .... he's just one of those stupid liberal rich folks who wants to help the poor and middle class instead of just stuffing money in his pockets like Frist and Delay."

Yeah he can't wait to help us out. Maybe with one of those loans that he hands out and then forgives in exchange for political backing. Oh wait...I'm not one of his girlfriends or a connected union official.

"Perhaps if you took off your rose colored glasses you might find that your lips are firmly planted on George Bush's hind quarters."

"Who's economy" It's kind of hard to take you seriously when you don't know the correct usage of "who's and whose". If you're going to act like Realist, he's out of touch but his grammar and spelling are the tops.

"I don't blindly follow anyone and no politician or person is without flaw. Not me, not you and certainly not anyone in or running for office. By the same token, I won't abide the spouting of statements that have no basis in fact."

So I guess that Bush may have some good points also. I'll say it again, you've never had it so good. Take a look around you, start at the High School. Those kids are driving high end cars, every one of them has a cell phone and not the cheapo models either, computers, electronics gadgets, audio/video devices. People are buying everthing they can get their hands on. The housing market keeps setting records. Retail stores are packed. Your economic factoids don't match up with what you can see with your own eyes.

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Guest GI Joe
Loki, I believe that Ramzi Yousef the mastermind of the 1993 WTC bombing was arrested in 1995 in Pakistan and is still in a US prison. I think Clinton was President then.

So how is BushCo making the people responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing pay for their crime?

Do you mean Osama? Didn't he escape from Afghanistan under our noses?

Are you saying that the 10's of thousands of people in Iraq who's deaths we caused by invading were to blame for that bombing? Well, then you're right, we sure showed them.

Are you saying it was Saddam? You can believe that if you want but you have no proof and it defies logic.

Remember facts facts facts ... not just what you want to believe.

If we fought the war the right way, we would be less concerned about civilian casualties. I'm not saying bulldoze the country, but are we playing by a set of rules that no one else plays by. Right now, insurgents are targeting schools, police stations, mosques; maybe its me.

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You mean that was the residual from Daddy Bush's administration. Not to mention the fact that everything else was controlled by the Republican Party.

There was no beneficial economic residue from Papa Bush's administration. Beginning just 6 months after his inauguration, the National Bureau of Economic Research delared the U.S. to be in a recession. The remainder of his term produced the highest unemployment rate since the Depression and an unprecedented national deficit. (historical FACT)

Clinton's election in 1992 marked the first time in 12 years that Democrats controlled the White House and the Congress.

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Okay let's clear up a few misconceptions. You want to say Clinton's economic policy was better than Bush's, fine. I agree, I think Bush has spent WAY too much money both domestically and overseas. In good times, responsible spending is good, but economically speaking we are not in good times; fiscal restraint needs to be exercised. Now, since I've conceded this point let's move on.

Some highlights of Clinton's administration, as listed on this site.

Welfare reform- Clinton achievement, sure, but the votes to pass were Republican not Democratic.

NAFTA- achievement, maybe I still don't like this. But, Republican votes to pass this legislation.

World peace-- HUH? Where? There was an Israeli- Palestinian accord that didn't hold, (not his fault, but he can't take credit either), North Korea, well we've already covered this one Jimmy Carter "solved" that problem. He bypassed the UN to go to Bosnia, and instead trusted our NATO allies. They were helpful this time.

Economic prosperity- think accounting scandals. Enron, Global Crossing and others were cooking the books in the 90's, it's an historical fact. Before someone gets crazy, Ken Lay played golf with Clinton too. And, former Treas. Secretary Robert Rubin petitioned the Bush administration to help out Ken Lay. This guy was just dirty with politicians, party seemed to matter little.

You want to give Clinton credit, fine, but some credit is due to the Republican legislature, because the Dems never would have voted for some of these programs. You can't get away with tying the Congressional Dems to the prosperity of the Clinton years, they had nothing to do with it. Like it or not, Clinton and Gingrich worked together to accomplish good things; American politics working the way they were supposed to. I really would have been impressed had the Gingrich "Contract" accomplished their tenth task, term limits. Apparently they didn't want to leave once they got there, but to me, they reneged on a promise and that was a shame.

Now Surrealist do you see how this works, you don't have to believe EVERYTHING your party tells you, sometimes you can call them on mistakes you feel they've made?? By now I'm sure your brain is fried too much to process, be well, and know that no party is right 100% of the time.

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Okay let's clear up a few misconceptions.  You want to say Clinton's economic policy was better than Bush's, fine.  I agree, I think Bush has spent WAY too much money both domestically and overseas.  In good times, responsible spending is good, but economically speaking we are not in good times; fiscal restraint needs to be exercised.  Now, since I've conceded this point let's move on.

Some highlights of Clinton's administration, as listed on this site.

Welfare reform- Clinton achievement, sure, but the votes to pass were Republican not Democratic.

NAFTA- achievement, maybe I still don't like this.  But, Republican votes to pass this legislat

Now Surrealist do you see how this works, you don't have to believe EVERYTHING your party tells you, sometimes you can call them on mistakes you feel they've made??  By now I'm sure your brain is fried too much to process, be well, and know that no party is right 100% of the time.

Wow, you must have done some research, 'cause you sure have changed your tune! Thanks for finally admitting that Clinton was good for the country economically. (Even admitted that this administration is not that great fiscally. There's hope for you yet.)

Apparently while you were reconsidering your stance, you just kind of overlooked the fact that The Welfare Reform Act was passed in 1992 by the 102nd Congress and that NAFTA and GATT (trade acts) were passed in 1993 by the 103rd Congress----Congresses where both the Senate and the House were controlled by the Dems. Facts.

Try not to sound so smug. Condescension is such an ineffective tool when you're attempting to use it against someone who is at least as smart (modesty forbids me from saying what I really think) as yourself. Unlike most on this site, I actually read and study before I make a political decision. It just happens that I always agree with the Democratic philosophy. How lucky for me!

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Just  indiscreet? I hope your daughter or grand daughter is never treated that way.  I wonder what you would call it then?

You know what, I was really disappointed by Clinton's infidelity. I'm a firm believer in monogamy and commitment; but given the chance, I vote for him all over again because while he might have been a lousy husband, he was a great president.

As for Ms. Lewinsky: please do not embarrass yourself or insult my intelligence by portraying her as a victim. She was not a child nor was she raped or coerced. Hers was a deliberate, focussed attempt to capture her 15 minutes of fame. An innocent, star-struck, young girl would not have thought to keep a semen-stained dress preserved, without cleaning, for future use as evidence or blackmail. A naive kid wouldn't have had long strategy talks with the likes of Linda Tripp or used the incident as a vehicle for book deals and talk shows.

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Right, and Georgie only snorted cocaine once! Reality check!

Now Realist do you really want to go down this path? I somehow doubt that Georgie's partying days could compare with Clinton's.

And at least Bush stopped at some point.

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Now Realist do you really want to go down this path? I somehow doubt that Georgie's partying days could compare with Clinton's. 

And at least Bush stopped at some point.

Oh yeah? Apparently W's partying days stopped the day after his 40th birthday when his wife threatened to leave him if he didn't clean up his act. Supposedly, that's when he "found" God. And if you know anything about W's wild and wooly past, you wouldn't be so quick to make Clinton the winner in that category!

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Now Realist do you really want to go down this path? I somehow doubt that Georgie's partying days could compare with Clinton's. 

And at least Bush stopped at some point.

Oh, I think that Good Ole Texas Son of a Millionaire could hold his own when it came to whoopin' and hollerin'. There was nothing conservative about Georgie Boy back in the day.

You're right though; he did stop. It's amazing what the threat of disinheritance can do!

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Mayor Santos and his crew are all the reason we need to vote Republican.

......and here are a few more reasons, taken from the past few days' headlines, to vote Republican:

1) The administration approved funds for a 1/2 million dollar hand-painted mural of an Alaskan Big Mouth Bass on the side of an Alaskan Airlines plane to advertise Alaska's fishing industry.

2) Republican House Majority Leader Tom DeLay was indicted for the second time in two weeks for conspiracy to commit campaign fraud and money laundering.

3) As recently as last June, FEMA used outdated flood maps to advise residents in certain parts of Louisiana (now victims of Hurricane Katrina) that they didn't require flood insurance. The maps should be updated every 25 years to accommodate natural geographical changes in the flood plain. The last time they were updated was in 1977. Do the math!

4) Adding insult to injury, when the same uninsured victims call FEMA for assistance, the calls are forwarded to a commercial answering service in Florida manned, in part, by former Wendy's employees.

5) Amid cries of cronyism from both sides of the aisle, President Bush nominated Harriet Miers, his long-time friend and personal attorney, to the U.S. Supreme Court. President Bush countered with, "I know her heart."

6) NY Times journalist Judith Miller testified in court regarding the source for her story accusing the Bush Administration of purposely leaking the name of a covert CIA operative. The source? Lewis Libby, Chief of Staff to VP Cheney.

7) Evan Kolmann, US Government counterterrorism consultant and expert in Middle Eastern affairs, says the President is "dead wrong" in his ranking of captured or slain terrorists. Kolmann refers specifically to the #2 ranking bestowed on slain insurgent Abu Azzam, who Kolmann says isn't even included in the top 20. This is not the first time that Kohlmann has questioned the administration's hyping of captures in order to feign progress in Iraq. "This is, on its face, deceptive," said Kohlmann.

8) Oct. 4, 2005: 6 American troops were killed in 2 separate incidents in Iraq, bringing the total number of deaths to 1,944.

Yeah, you're doing a hell of a job, Bushy!

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Wow, you must have done some research, 'cause you sure have changed your tune! Thanks for finally admitting that Clinton was good for the country economically.  (Even admitted that this administration is not that great fiscally. There's hope for you yet.)

Apparently while you were reconsidering your stance, you just kind of overlooked the fact that The Welfare Reform Act was passed in 1992 by the 102nd Congress and that NAFTA and GATT (trade acts) were passed in 1993 by the 103rd Congress----Congresses where both the Senate and the House were controlled by the Dems. Facts.

Try not to sound so smug. Condescension is such an ineffective tool when you're attempting to use it against someone who is at least as smart (modesty forbids me from saying what I really think) as yourself. Unlike most on this site, I actually read and study before I make a political decision. It just happens that I always agree with the Democratic philosophy. How lucky for me!

You say lucky, I think sad is more appropriate. Puppet.

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......and here are a few more reasons, taken from the past few days' headlines, to vote Republican:

1) The administration approved funds for a 1/2 million dollar hand-painted mural of an Alaskan Big Mouth Bass on the side of an Alaskan Airlines plane to advertise Alaska's fishing industry.

2) Republican House Majority Leader Tom DeLay was indicted for the second time in two weeks for conspiracy to commit campaign fraud and money laundering.

3) As recently as last June, FEMA used outdated flood maps to advise residents in certain parts of Louisiana (now victims of Hurricane Katrina) that they didn't require flood insurance. The maps should be updated every 25 years to accommodate natural geographical changes in the flood plain. The last time they were updated was in 1977. Do the math!

4) Adding insult to injury, when the same uninsured victims call FEMA for assistance, the calls are forwarded to a commercial answering service in Florida manned, in part, by former Wendy's employees.

5) Amid cries of cronyism from both sides of the aisle, President Bush nominated Harriet Miers, his long-time friend and personal attorney, to the U.S. Supreme Court. President Bush countered with, "I know her heart."

6) NY Times journalist Judith Miller testified in court regarding the source for her story accusing the Bush Administration of purposely leaking the name of a covert CIA operative. The source? Lewis Libby, Chief of Staff to VP Cheney.

7) Evan Kolmann, US Government counterterrorism consultant and expert in Middle Eastern affairs, says the President is "dead wrong" in his ranking of captured or slain terrorists. Kolmann refers specifically to the #2 ranking bestowed on slain insurgent Abu Azzam, who Kolmann says isn't even included in the top 20. This is not the first time that Kohlmann has questioned the administration's hyping of captures in order to feign progress in Iraq. "This is, on its face, deceptive," said Kohlmann.

8) Oct. 4, 2005: 6 American troops were killed in 2 separate incidents in Iraq, bringing the total number of deaths to 1,944.

Yeah, you're doing a hell of a job, Bushy!

And we know there are no instances of Democratic scandal, right. Start with the D.A. bringing charges against DeLay; 4 grand juries in 3 days, and two indictments. Can you say grand jury shopping or prosecutorial abuse? How about Chuck Schumer's staff acquiring the social security number of a Republlican Senate candidate? Isn't he the one always talking about identity theft, apparently its okay if you're looking for dirt in an election campaign.

Surrealist as always it appears your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

And, you will NEVER, EVER be smarter than me. Sad fact, I will never stop searching for knowledge, so there isn't even the tiniest glimmer of hope . . . .

for you I mean.

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Guest Guest1

I heard President Bush forced the dinosaurs into extinction so he could later pump them out of the ground as fossil fuel. My resources also tell me he's pushing legislation to make night darker and winter cold so he can profit from that very same fuel. That SOB.

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I heard President Bush forced the dinosaurs into extinction so he could later pump them out of the ground as fossil fuel. My resources also tell me he's pushing legislation to make night darker and winter cold so he can profit from that very same fuel. That SOB.

We all had better hope that we a mild winter.

The Santos snow removal system of waiting for summer. will be in full use.

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And we know there are no instances of Democratic scandal, right.  Start with the D.A. bringing charges against DeLay; 4 grand juries in 3 days, and two indictments.  Can you say grand jury shopping or prosecutorial abuse?  How about Chuck Schumer's staff acquiring the social security number of a Republlican Senate candidate?  Isn't he the one always talking about identity theft, apparently its okay if you're looking for dirt in an election campaign.

Surrealist as always it appears your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

And, you will NEVER, EVER be smarter than me.  Sad fact, I will never stop searching for knowledge, so there isn't even the tiniest glimmer of hope .  .  . .

for you I mean.

That's right. True to form. Instead of addressing the issues I put forth, you whine that "they started it first" routine.

Jury shopping and prosecutorial abuse would only be applicable if the charges were minor or trumped......and it ain't lookin' that way! Tommy has been a baaaaaad boy! Haven't read anything about Chuckie's staff's alleged caper, so I can't comment.

Loki, it appears you don't know the meaning of hypocrisy. If I were a hypocrite, I would espouse Democratic principles but act as a Republican. And we know that isn't happening! I'm a Democrat; I vote as a Democrat; I support the Democratic philosophy and Democratic candidates. That may be biased or predisposed but it is not hypocrisy.

I think you may be confusing knowledge with intelligence. You may actually be very intelligent. I have no way of knowing. Conversely, you have no idea just how intelligent I am, 'cause I've only showed you just enough to win.

I applaud your quest for knowledge: "I will never stop searching for knowledge..." It sounds so noble and dramatic. Can't you just hear the strains of The Battle Hymn of the Republic playing in the background?

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