A moment

[A. Realist]

Surrealist please!

Check to see which side of the aisle voted to lump FEMA in the DHS.  They came from the left.

Typical liberal, never let facts or details get in the way of any argument.  Just like Kerry and Gore thought they were smarter than Bush, you think you're smarter than me, and you are all wrong.

'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I repeat: A Republican President and a Republican Congress made the decision to incorporate FEMA into DHS in March of 2003.

"Typical liberal"----why, Loki, that's the nicest compliment you could have paid me!

Kerry and Gore never referred to "NUCALER WEAPONS" or "STRATEGERIES OF WAR". (Just a couple of "W"isms!)

[A. Realist]

He may be an idiot, but he's President of the United States and you're sitting in Kearny posting to a bulletin board.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, but I'm much better at what I do than he is at what he does. And I'll bet I know which one of us has a clearer conscience....

[Guest Curious]

Thank God! Some reinforcements on this site!

Speaking of greed---I see our illustrious Vice President finally crawled out of his bunker. I guess Mr. Compassion was there to negotiate all the Halliburton contracts that will emerge during this reconstruction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And "crawled" would be the right word for that snarling, effete excuse for a human being.

Interesting to note that that the former head of FEMA, who by the way was the college roommate of the present FEMA "head", is now a lobbyist for . . . you guessed it! Halliburton!! Someone needs to explain to me why Halliburton needs any lobbying, as they're practically in charge of the "war" in Iraq, and already hold a very lucrative contract from the government for the work that they will NOW be doing in New Orleans. That's right, it's already signed, sealed and delivered.

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job" - so says our Commander-in-Chief.

[Guest Loki]

Surrealist, since you can't see the forest for the trees, I'll make it simple.

Either:

A. George Bush is smarter than Kerry and Gore.

B. Your guys got beat by a moron.

Please select one. You can choose either one, but this is the reality of your life. Please don't bore me with conspiracy theories either, if the proof was there it would have been found. In fact, if proof ever comes to light, I will retract these statements.

Since I don't expect to have to eat my words, get over it, or leave the US. Europe beckons.

A or B?

[Guest Loki]

As far as the levees go, if the funding was there, the Army Corps still said the project wouldn't have been completed. Another irrelevant argument on your part.

[Guest Loki]

Loki,

You're flip-flopping! At 1:51pm on 9/7/05 you admonished me for assigning blame. Not the right time you said. I guess the time was right at 8:33am on the same day when YOU said, "....I feel the federal response was woefully inadequate, and as President, Bush ultimately bears the responsibility." You were right. Don't back-peddle.

The federal government was warned about the impending failure of the infrastructure, in particular the levees, two years ago by a study team of scientists from LSU. What did the Bush administration do? They sent manpower and committed millions of dollars per day to Iraq to find those weapons of mass destruction! Good plan!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unlike you, I will find fault with my own party if warranted.

Incidentally did anyone read that Sandy Burglar was ordered to pay $50,000 and two years probation for theft of confidential documents? "Most ethical administration in history", indeed. Five years later, and their still being found guilty. Wonder what was in those docs, that they needed to be taken and destroyed?

[A. Realist]

As far as the levees go, if the funding was there, the Army Corps still said the project wouldn't have been completed.  Another irrelevant argument on your part.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What nonsense! The Army Corps of Engineers has said no such thing! As a matter of fact one of the components of the plan called for prelimary shoring up of the breachable sections of the levees which might have proved helpful during a category 4 or 5 storm.

Aside from that, you're missing the point. Money that could have, should have, been used for domestic projects and now for relief for our own people, has been funneled to finance a war based on lies, in a country that doesn't want us. A war that has cost us American lives and a global loss of respect.

[Guest Radagast]

The Governor and the Mayor are both Dems, are they not, Rad.  It is now coming to light that the Governor received a request on SUNDAY night to evacuate, and requested twenty-four more hours to think about it (before you ask, the source is the New Orleans mayor).  There is a ton of blame to go around, now is just not the time for it.

That being said, I feel the federal response was woefully inadequate, and as President, Bush ultimately bears the responsibility.  I don't think Michael Brown, the FEMA director, should have a job with the government in the near future.

Now, for your homework, if you would please denounce those who feel this was somehow racially motivated.  You might not like Bush, that is your right, but you will never convince me that he willingly allowed anyone to die.  Inflammatory remarks like this have no place at this time of crisis.

Why do we see pictures of all those buses parked, now underwater, if indeed there was a mandatory evacuation?  You see my point, this ball wasn't dropped just once, more like the blooper reels of an NFL fumble.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of the 'ton of blame' you speak of, about 90% belongs to one branch of the Federal government or another. The first White House reaction was to say Gov. Blanco didn't declare a state of emergency or ask for federal help until too late. It comes to light that she had done both prior to the storm hitting. So now we have this new charge that you have restated about the evacuation. I don't know if it’s true or not but everything that comes out of Carl Rove's maw has to be fact checked. BushCo and the rightwing noise machine have put a lot of effort into getting the media to focus on the 10% that everyone else did wrong. I guess they must have lost that sign that Harry Truman used to keep on his desk.

They could have declared all the mandatory evacuations they wanted but how do you move the 100,000 or 200,000 people who either wouldn't or couldn't leave in two days? As we see, they have to take people out at gun point even today. Are you suggesting that the state and the city had the resourses to cover all the bases that needed to be covered and still carry out perhaps one of the most massive evacuations in history? That's why we have FEMA and the Federal recovery system. My understanding is that was the reason FEMA and other emergency response people were put under DHS. It was to deal with things like this more efficiently. It was a good idea, in my view, but it got Fd up because those in charge forgot to organize it properly.

As far as the race thing goes, yes, it is an unfair charge against BushCo. As liberal and angry as I might be, there is just no way I would think that the lack of attention was race motivated. However, because of the typical conservative Republican policies as far as funding and setting priorities that have been in place for the past five years, they have no one to blame but themselves that off the wall charges like that are being widely accepted in minority communities.

Now, do I feel good about blaming most of this on BushCo? No. I wish it never happened. I wish that attention had been paid and the lives and property had been saved. Experience has taught me, however, that if you don’t call these guys out before they get their full orchestra of cover up and lies up and running at the 100 decibel range, the truth gets lost.

[A. Realist]

Surrealist, since you can't see the forest for the trees, I'll make it simple.

Either:

    A.  George Bush is smarter than Kerry and Gore.

    B.  Your guys got beat by a moron.

Please select one.  You can choose either one, but this is the reality of your life.  Please don't bore me with conspiracy theories either, if the proof was there it would have been found.  In fact, if proof ever comes to light, I will retract these statements.

Since I don't expect to have to eat my words, get over it, or leave the US.  Europe beckons.

A or B?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, absolutely "B". No conspiracy. You said it; the moron won, which only proves that the more intelligent candidate doesn't always win the election. Look at Adlai Stevenson, a bone fide genius, who lost to Dwight Eisenhower, a decorated war hero but certainly no brain trust.

Losing the election didn't make Kerry or Gore any less intelligent. Winning the election certainly didn't make George Bush any more intelligent.

[A. Realist]

Unlike you, I will find fault with my own party if warranted. 

Incidentally did anyone read that Sandy Burglar was ordered to pay $50,000 and two years probation for theft of confidential documents?  "Most ethical administration in history", indeed.  Five years later, and their still being found guilty.  Wonder what was in those docs, that they needed to be taken and destroyed?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great example of circumvention! When faced with proof of your own duplicity, you introduce an entirely irrelevant disparity. Almost clever. But if you have Republican loyalties you certainly don't want to venture into "ethical administration" territory! (Do the names, "Tricky Dick" or "Watergate" ring a bell?)

[oldfart56]

Unlike you, I will find fault with my own party if warranted. 

Incidentally did anyone read that Sandy Burglar was ordered to pay $50,000 and two years probation for theft of confidential documents?  "Most ethical administration in history", indeed.  Five years later, and their still being found guilty.  Wonder what was in those docs, that they needed to be taken and destroyed?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bla bla bla all this stuff is just that!when partys controll the country this is what goes on! ask the people here in fla from the storm who is to blame! all they want is freedom to live in a home of his or her own!yes there was lots of problems with the storm plan but you in kearny have a bigger problem to deal with! yah the dump! just like the storm it will get ya to! no its not a storm ITS WORSE!!! AND IT WILL HURT MORE PEOPLE THAN THAT STORM! so why aren't doing some thing about that nightmare! oh try voteing for the right guy next time! try nader he was telling the truth about our problems! oh but he was independent! so am i!!! and none of this stuff will be fixed till the next elect!!!!!!! so start helping the people from the storm and FIX YOUR OWN BIG NIGHTMARE!! THE DUMP!!!

[Guest Curious]

Surrealist, since you can't see the forest for the trees, I'll make it simple.

Either:

    A.  George Bush is smarter than Kerry and Gore.

    B.  Your guys got beat by a moron.

Please select one.  You can choose either one, but this is the reality of your life.  Please don't bore me with conspiracy theories either, if the proof was there it would have been found.  In fact, if proof ever comes to light, I will retract these statements.

Since I don't expect to have to eat my words, get over it, or leave the US.  Europe beckons.

A or B?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mind if I get in on this question? I select "B" - Kerry was beat by a moron.

And you might as well get over that mindset that if you DARE to question your government or any of its officials you're automatically a traitor. This is called "SPIN" and it's one of the few things Republicans are experts at. I don't see it that way. I believe this country was founded on the principle that its citizens have the right to question and protest, and if you ask me (and I know you didn't) there's not nearly enough questioning going on at present. And there's sooooo much that could be questioned!

As for conspiracy theories, it's a shame you're bored by them. I suppose you also think Oswald acted alone.

[Guest Curious]

Unlike you, I will find fault with my own party if warranted.

Five years later, and their still being found guilty.

Who else has been "found guilty", and of what?

[A. Realist]

With all this great discussion and all these heated exchanges, I have shamefully neglected something that I've wanted to say.

As disgusted as I (and many others) have been with government agencies and the national leadership, my frustration has been far out-weighed by my admiration for the performance of private agencies and service groups. I continue to be touched, although not surprised, by the generosity, the kindness, and the resourcefulness of my fellow Americans. One-on-one acts of charity have crossed all religious, economic, racial and social divides. It confirms my belief in the innate goodness of the human race.

Great job, America!

[Guest Guest]

What nonsense! The Army Corps of Engineers has said no such thing! As a matter of fact one of the components of the plan called for prelimary shoring up of the breachable sections of the levees which might have proved helpful during a category 4 or 5 storm.

Aside from that, you're missing the point. Money that could have, should have, been used for domestic projects and now for relief for our own people, has been funneled to finance a war based on lies, in a country that doesn't want us. A war that has cost us American lives and a global loss of respect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I watched CNN when the representative of the Army Corps said it, sorry, didn't pay close enough attention to the name, but do know what I saw.

[Guest Loki]

Great example of circumvention! When faced with proof of your own duplicity, you introduce an entirely irrelevant disparity. Almost clever. But if you have Republican loyalties you certainly don't want to venture into "ethical administration" territory! (Do the names, "Tricky Dick" or "Watergate" ring a bell?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not circumvention, it was lazy. I was too lazy to start a new topic.

Nixon was wrong, I will not argue that. You see, in my world, wrong is wrong, I don't toe party lines in opposition to my beliefs. Try it.

[Guest Loki]

Mind if I get in on this question?  I select "B" - Kerry was beat by a moron. 

And you might as well get over that mindset that if you DARE to question your government or any of its officials you're automatically a traitor.  This is called "SPIN" and it's one of the few things Republicans are experts at.  I don't see it that way.  I believe this country was founded on the principle that its citizens have the right to question and protest, and if you ask me (and I know you didn't) there's not nearly enough questioning going on at present.  And there's sooooo much that could be questioned! 

As for conspiracy theories, it's a shame you're bored by them.  I suppose you also think Oswald acted alone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps, I don't even believe it was Oswald. It could have been the CIA, or the Mob, or the KGB, no, wait, I think it was the one-armed man.

[Guest Guest]

I repeat: A Republican President and a Republican Congress made the decision to incorporate FEMA into DHS in March of 2003.

"Typical liberal"----why, Loki, that's the nicest compliment you could have paid me!

Kerry and Gore never referred to "NUCALER WEAPONS" or "STRATEGERIES OF WAR". (Just a couple of "W"isms!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How many dems voted for it? Hillary did.

[Guest Kanye West]

George Bush doesn't care about black people.

[Guest George W. Bush]

You got me Kanye... I mean, I don't really care about them, but I don't care about white people either! Shit, the soldiers dying in Iraq come from a whole mix of ethnicities and I don't give two f***s about any of those s****rs either. It's the average American I don't give a shit about, see... I got about 5 years left - no wait, three or some'in - but the point is, I don't run for office agian, so I don't need you mother***ers for nothin'. So goodnight and a happy 9/11, Kearny. And when you're watching all that 9/11 footage on Sunday, don't forget it, it was Iraq, France, and Liberals who knocked those towers down, nobody else. Osama bin Laden and weapons of mass destruction are just silly terms that got tossed around too much.

oh yeah and uh... PS: If disaster ever strikes your town, you know where not to look for help Catch ma drift?

pss: if ya didn't catch ma drift... I was tryin' to say I don't need any drownin' ni***rs botherin' me when i'm kickin' back in crawford. for chrissake, you know?

KOTW Note: The above post was edited for content.

[Guest Radagast]

Here is Gov. Blanco's letter to President Bush dated August 27th ... two days before the storm

Tracking Katrina: Blanco Requests Federal State of Emergency

Saturday, August 27, 2005

From the NewsChannel 6 Storm Spotting Team:

Governor Blanco requested $9,000,000 and a federal state of emergency declared Saturday. She sent the following letter to President Bush:

Dear Mr. President:

Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina.

In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

Preliminary estimates of the types and amount of emergency assistance needed under the Stafford Act, and emergency assistance from certain Federal agencies under other statutory authorities are tabulated in Enclosure A.

The following information is furnished on the nature and amount of State and local resources that have been or will be used to alleviate the conditions of this emergency:

. Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby.

. Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby.

. Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters.

. Louisiana State Police (LSP): Providing support for the phased evacuation of the coastal areas.

. Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Supporting the evacuation of the affected population and preparing for Search and Rescue Missions.

Mr. President

Page Two

August 27, 2005

. Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Coordinating traffic flow and management of the evacuations routes with local officials and the State of Mississippi.

The following information is furnished on efforts and resources of other Federal agencies, which have been or will be used in responding to this incident:

. FEMA ERT-A Team en-route.

I certify that for this emergency, the State and local governments will assume all applicable non-Federal share of costs required by the Stafford Act.

I request Direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.

(a) List any reasons State and local government cannot perform or contract for performance, (if applicable).

() Specify the type of assistance requested.

In accordance with 44 CFR § 206.208, the State of Louisiana agrees that it will, with respect to Direct Federal assistance:

1. Provide without cost to the United States all lands, easement, and rights-of-ways necessary to accomplish the approved work.

2. Hold and save the United States free from damages due to the requested work, and shall indemnify the Federal Government against any claims arising from such work;

3. Provide reimbursement to FEMA for the non-Federal share of the cost of such work in accordance with the provisions of the FEMA-State Agreement; and

4. Assist the performing Federal agency in all support and local jurisdictional matters.

In addition, I anticipate the need for debris removal, which poses an immediate threat to lives, public health, and safety.

Pursuant to Sections 502 and 407 of the Stafford Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5192 & 5173, the State agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the United States of America for any claims arising from the removal of debris or wreckage for this disaster. The State agrees that debris removal from public and private property will not occur until the landowner signs an unconditional authorization for the removal of debris.

I have designated Mr. Art Jones as the State Coordinating Officer for this request. He will work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency in damage assessments and may provide further information or justification on my behalf.

Sincerely,

Kathleen Babineaux Blanco

Governor

Enclosure

[Guest Justin Case]

Loki,

You're flip-flopping! At 1:51pm on 9/7/05 you admonished me for assigning blame. Not the right time you said. I guess the time was right at 8:33am on the same day when YOU said, "....I feel the federal response was woefully inadequate, and as President, Bush ultimately bears the responsibility." You were right. Don't back-peddle.

The federal government was warned about the impending failure of the infrastructure, in particular the levees, two years ago by a study team of scientists from LSU. What did the Bush administration do? They sent manpower and committed millions of dollars per day to Iraq to find those weapons of mass destruction! Good plan!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did anyone else notice how Loki kind of skirted this one?

[Guest Loki]

The purpose of my post was to offer EXAMPLES of areas or situations that might have been handled better, not to assign blame. When all is said and done, and the families are reunited, and people are returned to their homes, and the cleanup begins; only then should we sit around and do the armchair quarterback thing.

Despite Rad's post of Gov. Blanco's letter, I'm certain that there were things that could have been done on ALL levels: local, state, and federal.

True to form, and lacking ideas of their own, they sat lurking for bad news to start bashing the President. Root against your fellow citizens so you can attack a man you despise . . . real productive. This kind of help none of us needs.

[Guest Loki]

Look for the WMD's in the Beqaa valley, you won't be disappointed.

Sorry, I'll spot you this one. The Beqaa valley is in the deserts of Syria.

[A. Realist]

Here is Gov. Blanco's letter to President Bush dated August 27th ... two days before the storm

Tracking Katrina: Blanco Requests Federal State of Emergency

Saturday, August 27, 2005

From the NewsChannel 6 Storm Spotting Team:

Governor Blanco requested $9,000,000 and a federal state of emergency declared Saturday. She sent the following letter to President Bush:

Dear Mr. President:

Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina.

In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

Preliminary estimates of the types and amount of emergency assistance needed under the Stafford Act, and emergency assistance from certain Federal agencies under other statutory authorities are tabulated in Enclosure A.

The following information is furnished on the nature and amount of State and local resources that have been or will be used to alleviate the conditions of this emergency:

. Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby.

. Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby.

. Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters.

. Louisiana State Police (LSP): Providing support for the phased evacuation of the coastal areas.

. Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Supporting the evacuation of the affected population and preparing for Search and Rescue Missions.

Mr. President

Page Two

August 27, 2005

. Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Coordinating traffic flow and management of the evacuations routes with local officials and the State of Mississippi.

The following information is furnished on efforts and resources of other Federal agencies, which have been or will be used in responding to this incident:

. FEMA ERT-A Team en-route.

I certify that for this emergency, the State and local governments will assume all applicable non-Federal share of costs required by the Stafford Act.

I request Direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.

(a) List any reasons State and local government cannot perform or contract for performance, (if applicable).

() Specify the type of assistance requested.

In accordance with 44 CFR § 206.208, the State of Louisiana agrees that it will, with respect to Direct Federal assistance:

1. Provide without cost to the United States all lands, easement, and rights-of-ways necessary to accomplish the approved work.

2. Hold and save the United States free from damages due to the requested work, and shall indemnify the Federal Government against any claims arising from such work;

3. Provide reimbursement to FEMA for the non-Federal share of the cost of such work in accordance with the provisions of the FEMA-State Agreement; and

4. Assist the performing Federal agency in all support and local jurisdictional matters.

In addition, I anticipate the need for debris removal, which poses an immediate threat to lives, public health, and safety.

Pursuant to Sections 502 and 407 of the Stafford Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5192 & 5173, the State agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the United States of America for any claims arising from the removal of debris or wreckage for this disaster. The State agrees that debris removal from public and private property will not occur until the landowner signs an unconditional authorization for the removal of debris.

I have designated Mr. Art Jones as the State Coordinating Officer for this request. He will work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency in damage assessments and may provide further information or justification on my behalf.

Sincerely,

Kathleen Babineaux Blanco

Governor

Enclosure

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that should put to rest the asinine suggestion that the Governor didn't ask for federal aid in a timely fashion.

Since multiple choice seems to be popular these days on this site, perhaps Loki would like to choose one of the following for Bush's excuse for not answering the call for assistance sooner:

1) His mother told him it wasn't really that important.

2) He had an early tee-off time on August 30th, so he had to get to bed early.

3) The dog ate the fax from Gov. Blanco.

4) He's a moron.

5) All of the above.