Mayor Santos running out of excuses?

[Guest Guest]

Paul,

It's been a while since I've posted on this board, but lately I'm finding the increasing amount of mis-information to be disturbing. Not just here. Frankly, I'm very concerned about distortions of the truth in taxes, bonding, "binding arbitration," "debt leveling off," and a host of other false statements that are going unchallenged. I'm going to have start challenging them again.

Now, to your statement. There is no cost to the taxpayers in a recall election if the recall is held during the November general election. If the recall election is a special election, there would be a cost to the taxpayers. That cost would have to be identified and made part of the recall petition and told to the voter before they signed.

The decision as to whether the recall is held in November or at a special election is made by the recall committee. No one else.

Bottom line - extra cost to the taxpayer is a non-issue in deciding if a recall is justified. 

Facts. They're a beautiful thing.

Jim Mangin

WAY TO GO JIM!!!!  I HAVE MISSED YOUR INPUT ON THIS SITE...  AND AM SO SICK OF P-A-U-L

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest Blah, Blah, Blah]

Paul,

It's been a while since I've posted on this board, but lately I'm finding the increasing amount of mis-information to be disturbing. Not just here. Frankly, I'm very concerned about distortions of the truth in taxes, bonding, "binding arbitration," "debt leveling off," and a host of other false statements that are going unchallenged. I'm going to have start challenging them again.

Now, to your statement. There is no cost to the taxpayers in a recall election if the recall is held during the November general election. If the recall election is a special election, there would be a cost to the taxpayers. That cost would have to be identified and made part of the recall petition and told to the voter before they signed.

The decision as to whether the recall is held in November or at a special election is made by the recall committee. No one else.

Bottom line - extra cost to the taxpayer is a non-issue in deciding if a recall is justified. 

Facts. They're a beautiful thing.

Jim Mangin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jim, Your problem is that you think you're brilliant and know all the answers. Reality is you aren't and don't. And you dodge and run when confronted with facts.

Bottom line is that a recall committee has the power to decide whether or not the Town has to spend some $50,000 on a special election. That assumes they can get enough signatures, of course.

[Guest Paul]

Paul

      There are no easy solutions to this tax mess, When ever you have to reduce your budget its never popular. The average household budget no matter how much money you make must adjust to increased taxes, and over the years TAXPAYERS done so in Kearny. Its sad to say that taxes are out of control and action needs to be taken, as opposed to every year Mayor Santos has been in office.(Taxes have went up and services have gone down.) Hard decisons have and I mean (HAVE) to be made in order to improve services, and in doing so, making sure the town employees understand why an affordable tax base would be good for them, and what a privledge it is to work in town goverment. The Mayor needs to be forceful in cutting this budget and if he needs to send a message to the unions by cutting across the board the Towns workforce then so be it. Its like when someone calls out sick, the supervisor always has a plan to adjust the work day. It would be hard in the beginning,  Its like a pregnancy, its uncomfortable, it hurts, its messy, but after all the work it produces a beautiful baby. There are tough times ahead for Kearny and this Mayor knows it, The thing here is he willing to do anything about it                                                                                           

He hasn't thus far and that is why a Recall Election is needed.  Its comiing!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm looking forward to hearning more. Maybe a forum could be put together for a calm and intelligent discussion of the issues. If so, I would expect both sides to skip the generalities and be specific. For me, that's what missing so far.

[Guest Guest]

Jim, Your problem is that you think you're brilliant and know all the answers.  Reality is you aren't and don't.  And you dodge and run when confronted with facts. 

Bottom line is that a recall committee has the power to decide whether or not the Town has to spend some $50,000 on a special election.  That assumes they can get enough signatures, of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jim,

How many signatures are needed and where do I sign?

[Guest WildBill]

250 signatures are needed, Listen to the winds that bounce of the billowy waves as this recall drive fades away. Ye Gods!

[Jim Mangin]

Jim, that's fair comment and a good point. When is next regularly scheduled mayoral election?

You have an interest in this, potentially, since you ran against Al before, so I'm glad to see you here. How fair are the charges being leveled against Mayor Santos? How would you answer my questions? What are the statistics, and what were the alternatives? What would you have done differently had you been mayor, and what difference would you have expected it to make? I'm looking for specifics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Paul,

My interest in this is the same as everyone else's. I do think the charges against the Mayor are fair and I'll site all the statistics, documentation and alternatives you'd like to prove the point. You say you want specifics and I'll be happy to provide it. Ask me a specific question or my opinion on a specific topic and I'll give you a specific answer.

One point though - as a veteran of this board I've learned (the hard way) that posts should be kept short. I'm glad to see you contributing to this board. You make my long-winded posts seem like abbreviations.

Jim Mangin

[Jim Mangin]

Jim,

I am impressed with your ability to articulate the specific issues you have with the current administration.  Few of us have this ability.  The mayor said he wanted a healthy debate in the article he submitted recently to the Observer.  Why don't you challenge the Observer to give you equal time.  Submit your list of issues and challenge the mayor to respond.  The Observer owe's those of us who think like you the opportunity to challenge the mayor.  After all, they apparently seem to be working for his campaign, they allowed him to submit virtually the same article two weeks in a row.  If Canessa isn't going to do his job and play Devil's advocate and challenge him with tough questions, we need you to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've submitted a letter to the editor regarding the Mayor's call for a debate on taxes. Let's see if it gets published. I don't have any reason to believe it won't.

Jim Mangin

[Jim Mangin]

Jim, Your problem is that you think you're brilliant and know all the answers.  Reality is you aren't and don't.  And you dodge and run when confronted with facts. 

Bottom line is that a recall committee has the power to decide whether or not the Town has to spend some $50,000 on a special election.  That assumes they can get enough signatures, of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't have all the answers. Nobody does. I do have lots of opinions and I'm not afraid to ask the questions. Just like I'm not afraid to post my name.

Jim Mangin

[Jim Mangin]

I'm looking forward to hearning more. Maybe a forum could be put together for a calm and intelligent discussion of the issues. If so, I would expect both sides to skip the generalities and be specific. For me, that's what missing so far.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An intelligent discussion of the issues in Kearny would be refreshing. I've watched the tapes of Kearny Town Council meetings and I haven't seen one single discussion of any issue. Of course, some people like it when everyone agrees. For example . . .

"I like Al Santos because he acts like a professional, and so I'm inclined to believe him. I watched him take control of a town council that used to look like a mud-wrestling troup and turn it into a respectable, functioning body."

For me, I think it's more productive when the governing body takes on the tough issues, or at the very least discusses them in public. This is also my opinion (and yours, or so I thought) of the Board of Education.

Jim Mangin (former mud-wrestler)

[Jim Mangin]

250 signatures are needed, Listen to the winds that bounce of the billowy waves as this recall drive fades away. Ye Gods!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More like 3,000 signatures are needed.

A recall drive is not something to be taken lightly by either side. The voter apathy in Kearny recently is great. Getting one fourth of the registered voters to sign a recall petition would be a mammoth effort. On the other side of the coin, I don't think any elected official should dismiss a recall effort with a wave of the hand as if "it'll never happen." Just the fact that people are angry enough to attempt a recall should prompt elected officials to act. A recall drive could potentially dismiss the entire sitting Mayor and Town Council in just one election. The power of the people in a recall election is enormous, and that's just how it should be.

Personally, I'm not involved in this recall effort although in my opinion I think it's a good idea. First, it gets people talking about issues and that can only be a good thing.

Second, remember Kearny always held its elected officials accountable through two years terms. Every year there was an election in Kearny and we've seen majority shifts and entire Town Councils turn over in just two years. We no longer have that accountability. A recall effort restores, somewhat, that accountability. Especially since the people of Kearny had no say in the switch to four year terms.

Third, it gives people an avenue to get involved in the political process. Kearny boasts about its ethnic diversity, but what happened to its historic political diversity? That's why Kearny broke with Harrison 140 years ago. Kearny always showed political independence from Hudson County, but not any more. Do the people in Kearny now think that Hudson County is good for Kearny? I don't think so. But there's no mechanism to channel their feelings into political action. And this is exactly what a recall drive does.

Again, just my opinion - a recall effort in Kearny is good for Kearny.

Jim Mangin

[Guest guest]

Here's an alternative....Bayonne just got state approval to lay off 54 town workers, which includes 25 policemen.....Now that's government for the people and a government who can make tough decsions...Thats how you control out of control municipal spending...Hey, it's tough to get laid off but many people in the private sector get laid off daily...And the government is supposed to work for all the people, not just some of the people..

quote=Guest,Sep 22 2007, 08:46 PM]

You're arguing for an alternative, so yes, you must present one.

I would not rather spend my money on a recall. You're going to spend money on town government either way. Your argument presents it as a choice between spending money on town services and spending money on a recall, but that's not an alternative. A recall is an extra expenditure, not an alternative.

Maybe you're right about negotiating the contracts. I don't know. Are our civil servants overpaid? What are the data? How do we compare to other municipalities? What is the quality of service in towns whose employees are paid less, if there are any such towns? Present the data, then you'll have basis for your argument.

Then weigh the pros and cons. That's the necessary next step. Do you want to pay your police officers less? Your firefighters? Your teachers? Are you at all worried that if you do that, good officers, firefighters and teachers will go elsewhere?

All you've done so far is complain that your taxes are up. Maybe there are reasons for that. Maybe the level of taxes is where is has to be. You're not making the case for change. Make it, and every Kearny taxpayer will thank you. In fact, maybe we'll elect you mayor, but not if all you're going to do is complain without laying out your plans for change, separate and apart from changing the name on the door of the mayor's office.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Strife767]

Timing is everything. It will happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll put it on my checklist right under the Rapture.

[Strife767]

What do you care about what will cost to the taxpayers?

When you forced the BOE to do everything in your wish list.

'Wah wah, you made Kearny abide by the Constitution!' S**K it up.

Is the Anti-Defamation League coming here for free next week?

That was your idea and I'm sure the taxpayers are paying for that too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is all Paszkiewicz and his supporters' fault(s?). If he didn't make KHS look like a Bible Belt private school, and if the idiots in town didn't blindly support him, as well as the Board trying to let him get away with it, none of this would be necessary.

This is like getting mad at the guy whose tip to the cops leads to the bust of a big drug ring in town, which leads to greater numbers of police being hired to keep tabs on narcotics, which raises taxes. One is expected to get pissed at the drug dealers for the increase! And when one gets mad instead at the guy who gave the tip, one automatically comes off as someone either dealing drugs himself or in cahoots with the criminals.

Don't you realize how you sound?

[Guest Winds a Singing]

250 signatures are needed, Listen to the winds that bounce of the billowy waves as this recall drive fades away. Ye Gods!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

250? More like 3,000. Look it up. But you're dead on with the billowy wave part.

[Guest Wildbill]

I feel it is time for the Town to make an investment in a couple of portable high speed camera set ups to catch speeders. Washington DC Metro Police issued 3.3 millon dollars in fines in the month of march alone. 88% of the catch is all profit.

[Guest Guest]

I've submitted a letter to the editor regarding the Mayor's call for a debate on taxes. Let's see if it gets published. I don't have any reason to believe it won't.

Jim Mangin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

funny. paul gets all the letters he wants published. that is when he not shining santos's shoes.

[Guest Paul]

Paul,

My interest in this is the same as everyone else's. I do think the charges against the Mayor are fair and I'll site all the statistics, documentation and alternatives you'd like to prove the point. You say you want specifics and I'll be happy to provide it. Ask me a specific question or my opinion on a specific topic and I'll give you a specific answer.

One point though - as a veteran of this board I've learned (the hard way) that posts should be kept short. I'm glad to see you contributing to this board. You make my long-winded posts seem like abbreviations.

Jim Mangin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jim,

Since you've been reading some of my posts here, you may have noticed that I don't mind mixing it up. After all, in a sense I do it for a living. However, I also understand the difference between a productive dialogue and mud-wrestling. If you're telling me that you were one of the mud-wrestlers, that's not a good foot to put forward as far as I'm concerned. The change Al Santos brought to council proceedings was that he wouldn't put up with unprofessionalism. Being a lawyer myself, I understand what proper order and decorum look like in the conduct of official business. I'm sorry, but that's a clear plus, and I did see it first hand.

Now let's turn the page, start over and get down to specifics. I don't know what specific question to ask you. If you've written a letter to the Observer on the subject of taxes, then you must have something in mind. As you may know, I try cases for a living. No one has to ask me a question to get me started on describing my case. If you have a case to make against the mayor, then make it. It could take any of the following paths:

1. What action of his do you say cost us the most money unnecessarily, what would you have done differently, and how would doing it your way have changed things?

2. What was his most incompetent action, if any, and why?

3. What action on his part has shown putting political connections ahead of our interests? What should have been done instead, and how would that have changed things?

4. How much money do you believe you could have saved us if you had been mayor? What would you have done to achieve that? What obstacles would you have expected to encounter? In other words, give us a full discussion to back up your case. Since this is the kind of forum it is, start with a little piece of information at a time.

Those are just three ways I can think of for you to start a discussion like this. But I can't tell you how to make your case. You have to do that.

[Guest Paul]

I don't have all the answers. Nobody does. I do have lots of opinions and I'm not afraid to ask the questions. Just like I'm not afraid to post my name.

Jim Mangin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jim,

Thinking further about your posts and my response, I’d like to try this again to put this in the positive. My first choice would be that you make your case the best way you know how. That’s always how I want to make my cases, and the presumption is that you know what your strongest points are.

If you prefer that I pick a topic, post # 123 seems to be the most reasoned here so far. So let’s explore the question of an across-the-board cut in the employee base. If you agree with that approach, the relevant questions to me would include:

1. What is the employee base, that is, how many police, how many firefighters, teachers, clerical, etc.

2. Would you propose to cut any salaries? If so, whose and by how much?

3. How big a cut would you make in each area (police, fire, etc.), and specifically which positions would you reduce?

4. How would you expect those cuts to affect the quality of services?

5. Have you gotten input from the departments you propose to cut? I understand that they have an interest in any proposed cut, but I do think we have to hear them out. After all, they’re the ones providing those services.

6. How much money would your proposal save us, and what would be the dollar effect on x amount of current taxation?

7. I have to disagree with “RMS” that we should lecture town employees on what a privilege it is to work for the town. Don’t know about you, but I want the best possible people in every one of those jobs. Employee morale matters. What’s the likelihood that across-the-board layoffs will discourage good people from wanting to work for the town?

8. Is this a long-term solution, or are we going to be complaining a couple of years from now that services have declined, and organizing to recall the next mayor so we can get the old level of services back? I’ve seen towns do this dance of perpetual sniping and dissatisfaction. It’s very upsetting to everyone, personal relationships can be badly strained or broken, and it’s not in anyone’s best interests, except ironically the newspapers’. Analyze, please.

If you want a second line of information to pursue, what are the tax rates over the last 20 years? By what percentage are we up from 20 years ago? What has been the pattern throughout that time, and what makes Santos’ tenure stand out, if any anything?

That’s the kind of detail I’m looking for.

The other point about a potential recall, and it’s not a small one: Kearny is a town of 40,000 people. I don’t know how many people are willing to run for mayor. To my eye, Al Santos is several cuts above what we usually get in that job. He is intelligent, professional and on everything I’ve ever seen him do, he truly seems to listen to all sides with an open mind. Now maybe our anonymous “Recall Mayor Santos” is right: maybe Al has been ignoring a festering wound, hasn’t been listening, etc. But first I want to see the evidence that there was a real alternative, then I want to know who is out there willing to take his job. Maybe you’ll convince Al and he’ll change policies. I’ve seen bad mayors in Kearny. I don’t think he is one of them, and I don’t want to go back to that if it can be avoided. Show me that you have a plan to improve our town and lower our taxes, then I’ll join you.

[Guest Radagast]

Jim,

Thinking further about your posts and my response, I’d like to try this again to put this in the positive. My first choice would be that you make your case the best way you know how. That’s always how I want to make my cases, and the presumption is that you know what your strongest points are.

If you prefer that I pick a topic, post # 123 seems to be the most reasoned here so far. So let’s explore the question of an across-the-board cut in the employee base. If you agree with that approach, the relevant questions to me would include:

1. What is the employee base, that is, how many police, how many firefighters, teachers, clerical, etc.

2. Would you propose to cut any salaries? If so, whose and by how much?

3. How big a cut would you make in each area (police, fire, etc.), and specifically which positions would you reduce?

4. How would you expect those cuts to affect the quality of services?

5. Have you gotten input from the departments you propose to cut? I understand that they have an interest in any proposed cut, but I do think we have to hear them out. After all, they’re the ones providing those services.

6. How much money would your proposal save us, and what would be the dollar effect on x amount of current taxation?

7. I have to disagree with “RMS” that we should lecture town employees on what a privilege it is to work for the town. Don’t know about you, but I want the best possible people in every one of those jobs. Employee morale matters. What’s the likelihood that across-the-board layoffs will discourage good people from wanting to work for the town?

8. Is this a long-term solution, or are we going to be complaining a couple of years from now that services have declined, and organizing to recall the next mayor so we can get the old level of services back? I’ve seen towns do this dance of perpetual sniping and dissatisfaction. It’s very upsetting to everyone, personal relationships can be badly strained or broken, and it’s not in anyone’s best interests, except ironically the newspapers’. Analyze, please.

If you want a second line of information to pursue, what are the tax rates over the last 20 years? By what percentage are we up from 20 years ago? What has been the pattern throughout that time, and what makes Santos’ tenure stand out, if any anything?

That’s the kind of detail I’m looking for.

The other point about a potential recall, and it’s not a small one: Kearny is a town of 40,000 people. I don’t know how many people are willing to run for mayor. To my eye, Al Santos is several cuts above what we usually get in that job. He is intelligent, professional and on everything I’ve ever seen him do, he truly seems to listen to all sides with an open mind. Now maybe our anonymous “Recall Mayor Santos” is right: maybe Al has been ignoring a festering wound, hasn’t been listening, etc. But first I want to see the evidence that there was a real alternative, then I want to know who is out there willing to take his job. Maybe you’ll convince Al and he’ll change policies. I’ve seen bad mayors in Kearny. I don’t think he is one of them, and I don’t want to go back to that if it can be avoided. Show me that you have a plan to improve our town and lower our taxes, then I’ll join you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting discussion. I would venture a guess that there are less employees now than there were 20 years ago. That's why I don't think there is much profit in layoffs. Insurance and other fixed costs have gone up. This, along with State aid going down are the real culprits in this latest tax increase.

Fair or not, the people who are in office at times like these are the ones who get blamed. When people get angry, they have to lash out at somebody. The reality is that the taxpayers still have to dig up the money to pay the increase. Once they find a way to fit it into their budget and taxes level off, the anger goes away. I've seen decades of this. The pattern never changes.

If the election were this year, some elected officials would be in trouble. I would be very surprised, however, if a re-call materializes. More surprised if it was successful. but I've been surprised before. I freely admit, as someone has mentioned, that my track record at predicting local elections has not been stellar. Although, like that broken clock, I have been right at least twice a day...sometimes more.

[Guest Loki]

Interesting discussion. I would venture a guess that there are less employees now than there were 20 years ago. That's why I don't think there is much profit in layoffs. Insurance and other fixed costs have gone up. This, along with State aid going down are the real culprits in this latest tax increase.

Fair or not, the people who are in office at times like these are the ones who get blamed. When people get angry, they have to lash out at somebody. The reality is that the taxpayers still have to dig up the money to pay the increase. Once they find a way to fit it into their budget and taxes level off, the anger goes away. I've seen decades of this. The pattern never changes.

If the election were this year, some elected officials would be in trouble. I would be very surprised, however, if a re-call materializes. More surprised if it was successful. but I've been surprised before. I freely admit, as someone has mentioned, that my track record at predicting local elections has not been stellar. Although, like that broken clock, I have been right at least twice a day...sometimes more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good to see your back. But, if you're right twice a day, you must not be married. I know I haven't been right that often since I got married, unfortunate for me.

[Jim Mangin]

Jim,

Thinking further about your posts and my response, I’d like to try this again to put this in the positive. My first choice would be that you make your case the best way you know how. That’s always how I want to make my cases, and the presumption is that you know what your strongest points are.

If you prefer that I pick a topic, post # 123 seems to be the most reasoned here so far. So let’s explore the question of an across-the-board cut in the employee base. If you agree with that approach, the relevant questions to me would include:

1. What is the employee base, that is, how many police, how many firefighters, teachers, clerical, etc.

2. Would you propose to cut any salaries? If so, whose and by how much?

3. How big a cut would you make in each area (police, fire, etc.), and specifically which positions would you reduce?

4. How would you expect those cuts to affect the quality of services?

5. Have you gotten input from the departments you propose to cut? I understand that they have an interest in any proposed cut, but I do think we have to hear them out. After all, they’re the ones providing those services.

6. How much money would your proposal save us, and what would be the dollar effect on x amount of current taxation?

7. I have to disagree with “RMS” that we should lecture town employees on what a privilege it is to work for the town. Don’t know about you, but I want the best possible people in every one of those jobs. Employee morale matters. What’s the likelihood that across-the-board layoffs will discourage good people from wanting to work for the town?

8. Is this a long-term solution, or are we going to be complaining a couple of years from now that services have declined, and organizing to recall the next mayor so we can get the old level of services back? I’ve seen towns do this dance of perpetual sniping and dissatisfaction. It’s very upsetting to everyone, personal relationships can be badly strained or broken, and it’s not in anyone’s best interests, except ironically the newspapers’. Analyze, please.

If you want a second line of information to pursue, what are the tax rates over the last 20 years? By what percentage are we up from 20 years ago? What has been the pattern throughout that time, and what makes Santos’ tenure stand out, if any anything?

That’s the kind of detail I’m looking for.

The other point about a potential recall, and it’s not a small one: Kearny is a town of 40,000 people. I don’t know how many people are willing to run for mayor. To my eye, Al Santos is several cuts above what we usually get in that job. He is intelligent, professional and on everything I’ve ever seen him do, he truly seems to listen to all sides with an open mind. Now maybe our anonymous “Recall Mayor Santos” is right: maybe Al has been ignoring a festering wound, hasn’t been listening, etc. But first I want to see the evidence that there was a real alternative, then I want to know who is out there willing to take his job. Maybe you’ll convince Al and he’ll change policies. I’ve seen bad mayors in Kearny. I don’t think he is one of them, and I don’t want to go back to that if it can be avoided. Show me that you have a plan to improve our town and lower our taxes, then I’ll join you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Way to keep it short, Paul.

I'll answer all your points, but not tonight. We have a Friday night tradition in our family and sadly, it doesn't involve KOTW. Sorry KOTW.

Till tomorrow . . .

Jim Mangin

[Jim Mangin]

Interesting discussion. I would venture a guess that there are less employees now than there were 20 years ago. That's why I don't think there is much profit in layoffs. Insurance and other fixed costs have gone up. This, along with State aid going down are the real culprits in this latest tax increase.

Fair or not, the people who are in office at times like these are the ones who get blamed. When people get angry, they have to lash out at somebody. The reality is that the taxpayers still have to dig up the money to pay the increase. Once they find a way to fit it into their budget and taxes level off, the anger goes away. I've seen decades of this. The pattern never changes.

If the election were this year, some elected officials would be in trouble. I would be very surprised, however, if a re-call materializes. More surprised if it was successful. but I've been surprised before. I freely admit, as someone has mentioned, that my track record at predicting local elections has not been stellar. Although, like that broken clock, I have been right at least twice a day...sometimes more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While it's true insurance and fixed costs have increased and state aid has not - that's not to say the Mayor and Town Council shouldn't be constantly looking for ways to save taxpayer money. It seems this administration feels that since it can't control those fixed costs it can't control the increase in taxes. Not so.

Yes, there are less employees than there were 20 years ago, but there also efficiencies now that didn’t exist then. For example, 20 years ago if you wanted to view a tax map you had to go the Assessor’s office and have someone pull out those ancient documents. Now, taps maps are available on-line. If we’re not going to reduce the workforce as we become more efficient, we need to find other ways to save money.

For example, Kearny has a full-time Tax Collector, full-time Assistant Tax Collector, as well as various clerks and cashiers in the Tax Collector’s office. Their job is to send out tax bills and collect the revenue. Yet we’re paying well over $300,000 a year to United Water to perform this same function for water bills, except that United also reads the water meters. I brought up this as an alternative to the 2004 water rate increase, but it was never investigated or even discussed (probably because the idea originated from John Pinho).

While lay-offs may not be the answer, the real answer is out there. It just needs more debate and discussion to draw it out. And a Mayor and Council willing to listen.

Jim Mangin

[Jim Mangin]

Jim,

Since you've been reading some of my posts here, you may have noticed that I don't mind mixing it up. After all, in a sense I do it for a living. However, I also understand the difference between a productive dialogue and mud-wrestling. If you're telling me that you were one of the mud-wrestlers, that's not a good foot to put forward as far as I'm concerned. The change Al Santos brought to council proceedings was that he wouldn't put up with unprofessionalism. Being a lawyer myself, I understand what proper order and decorum look like in the conduct of official business. I'm sorry, but that's a clear plus, and I did see it first hand.

Now let's turn the page, start over and get down to specifics. I don't know what specific question to ask you. If you've written a letter to the Observer on the subject of taxes, then you must have something in mind. As you may know, I try cases for a living. No one has to ask me a question to get me started on describing my case. If you have a case to make against the mayor, then make it. It could take any of the following paths:

1. What action of his do you say cost us the most money unnecessarily, what would you have done differently, and how would doing it your way have changed things?

2. What was his most incompetent action, if any, and why?

3. What action on his part has shown putting political connections ahead of our interests? What should have been done instead, and how would that have changed things?

4. How much money do you believe you could have saved us if you had been mayor? What would you have done to achieve that? What obstacles would you have expected to encounter? In other words, give us a full discussion to back up your case. Since this is the kind of forum it is, start with a little piece of information at a time.

Those are just three ways I can think of for you to start a discussion like this. But I can't tell you how to make your case. You have to do that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Paul,

I usually prefer to talk about the Mayor’s policies, but since you started with his “professionalism,” let’s start here. From reading your posts Paul it’s evident you believe debate is healthy. I agree. The Mayor does not. His actions stymie debate and this, in my opinion, shows his un-professionalism. And, like you, I did see this first hand. But, unlike you, I will give specific examples (perhaps you can provide examples of “professionalism.”)

During the public hearing on the Pine Sol bond I made two arguments – first that some expenses included in the ordinance were not capital (and therefore, not bondable) expenses. My second argument was that instead of bonding we could use surplus funds left over from a previous bond ordinance and save administrative costs, as well as interest on what we borrowed. (long time readers of this board have heard all this from me before – here’s the link for more details http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...572&hl=pine+sol )

The Mayor denied the surplus existed and in the middle of my argument he moved to close the public hearing and stop the debate. I had to go the Jersey Journal with the documentation to prove the $1.8 million in surplus existed. How professional is it to close a public hearing just because you don’t want to hear what’s being said? Never mind the fact that I was holding a copy of the most recent audit showing the surplus existed. The Mayor wouldn’t have it. He knew he had the votes and that made the debate nothing more than a waste of time. Is this professional?

And who can forget the plight of the residents of King Street and Schuyler Avenue when they came to a Town Council meeting pleading for relief?

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...314entry13314

I went to the next Agenda Meeting and asked the Mayor what we were going to do. He said it was being looked into. At the next Council meeting I introduced a resolution calling for the Town Engineer to draft a proposal on what it would cost for the Town to apply for a low-interest loan from the Environmental Infrastructure Trust Fund to fund whatever we decided to do. The Mayor and the rest of the Council refused to second the resolution which prevents a debate on the issue from happening. This is what infuriated the King Street residents so much.

So you see Paul, you say the Mayor took control of the Town Council and instilled decorum and order. I say the Mayor took control of the Council and stymied debate and discussion. In my opinion, debate and discussion lead to alternatives and solutions. Alternatives and solutions are what is missing from the current administration.

Part II of this discussion – Alternatives and Solutions.

Jim Mangin

[Guest Recall Mayor Santos]

Jim,

Thinking further about your posts and my response, I’d like to try this again to put this in the positive. My first choice would be that you make your case the best way you know how. That’s always how I want to make my cases, and the presumption is that you know what your strongest points are.

If you prefer that I pick a topic, post # 123 seems to be the most reasoned here so far. So let’s explore the question of an across-the-board cut in the employee base. If you agree with that approach, the relevant questions to me would include:

1. What is the employee base, that is, how many police, how many firefighters, teachers, clerical, etc.

2. Would you propose to cut any salaries? If so, whose and by how much?

3. How big a cut would you make in each area (police, fire, etc.), and specifically which positions would you reduce?

4. How would you expect those cuts to affect the quality of services?

5. Have you gotten input from the departments you propose to cut? I understand that they have an interest in any proposed cut, but I do think we have to hear them out. After all, they’re the ones providing those services.

6. How much money would your proposal save us, and what would be the dollar effect on x amount of current taxation?

7. I have to disagree with “RMS” that we should lecture town employees on what a privilege it is to work for the town. Don’t know about you, but I want the best possible people in every one of those jobs. Employee morale matters. What’s the likelihood that across-the-board layoffs will discourage good people from wanting to work for the town?

8. Is this a long-term solution, or are we going to be complaining a couple of years from now that services have declined, and organizing to recall the next mayor so we can get the old level of services back? I’ve seen towns do this dance of perpetual sniping and dissatisfaction. It’s very upsetting to everyone, personal relationships can be badly strained or broken, and it’s not in anyone’s best interests, except ironically the newspapers’. Analyze, please.

If you want a second line of information to pursue, what are the tax rates over the last 20 years? By what percentage are we up from 20 years ago? What has been the pattern throughout that time, and what makes Santos’ tenure stand out, if any anything?

That’s the kind of detail I’m looking for.

The other point about a potential recall, and it’s not a small one: Kearny is a town of 40,000 people. I don’t know how many people are willing to run for mayor. To my eye, Al Santos is several cuts above what we usually get in that job. He is intelligent, professional and on everything I’ve ever seen him do, he truly seems to listen to all sides with an open mind. Now maybe our anonymous “Recall Mayor Santos” is right: maybe Al has been ignoring a festering wound, hasn’t been listening, etc. But first I want to see the evidence that there was a real alternative, then I want to know who is out there willing to take his job. Maybe you’ll convince Al and he’ll change policies. I’ve seen bad mayors in Kearny. I don’t think he is one of them, and I don’t want to go back to that if it can be avoided. Show me that you have a plan to improve our town and lower our taxes, then I’ll join you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Paul

You opened the door and now we will walk right threw it with the facts. We are up to the challenge unlike the Mayor who has no plan to address this TAX MESS other than to solve this problem by adding to the problem.(INCREASING TAXES) Tough decisions need to be made thats the first thing, and he hasn't made not ONE in confronting HIGH PROPERTY TAXES. KEARNY NEEDS A NEW DIRECTION

The time for a RECALL is now. By the way Paul can we expect you to be on the Towns payroll soon??? Is there anything in this for you or your family for being so outspoken in favor of this Mayor and will you go on the record on this site to not accept any position for you or your family under this adminstraton???? Its interesting that we have lawyers defending lawyers. Very Interesting!!!!

[Jim Mangin]

The other point about a potential recall, and it’s not a small one: Kearny is a town of 40,000 people. I don’t know how many people are willing to run for mayor. To my eye, Al Santos is several cuts above what we usually get in that job. He is intelligent, professional and on everything I’ve ever seen him do, he truly seems to listen to all sides with an open mind. Now maybe our anonymous “Recall Mayor Santos” is right: maybe Al has been ignoring a festering wound, hasn’t been listening, etc. But first I want to see the evidence that there was a real alternative, then I want to know who is out there willing to take his job. Maybe you’ll convince Al and he’ll change policies. I’ve seen bad mayors in Kearny. I don’t think he is one of them, and I don’t want to go back to that if it can be avoided. Show me that you have a plan to improve our town and lower our taxes, then I’ll join you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know Paul. First you were opposed to a recall because you said it would cost taxpayers money. Then, I showed that it wouldn't cost anything. Now it seems you're against a recall because you don't know who else is running. Are you entirely objective when it comes to Mayor Santos?

Jim Mangin