I'm finished I can't take it

[Guest Guest]

OK, Joe, but all you’re doing is describing your behavior. You’re not giving me a reason for it.

This isn’t about any inconvenience to you, or to anyone else. You’re not inconvenienced. You can still post here, exactly as you always did. Just put me, Bryan, et. al., on ignore and/or don’t open any topic that doesn’t interest you. That’s what I do. I’ve done it before in other discussion groups, and I do it at KOTW. I no longer read Bryan’s posts, and it’s no inconvenience to skip past them. It won’t take you more than a few seconds to eliminate the topics you don’t want and choose the topics you do want. Saying that we’ve driven you away from KOTW because of the volume and subject matter of our posts is not credible. On the contrary, it strongly suggests that this is about something else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you think that all people come a site called "Kearny on the Web" to hear about the religious injustices that were performed on you and your family throughout the years? That is your own personal thing. Most of the posts here by you and your fellow band of cohorts have nothing to do with the town of Kearny. I do suggest that you take it to a site that does promote that kind of belief. As to being inconvenience, it does take time reading though all the garbage posted by you to get to what is happening in the Town of Kearny so that discredits your theory.

This isn’t how Kearny does it any more. Kearny is a city in the United States of America, and as such is subject to the US Constitution. It’s not OK to do things in a particularly parochial way in violation of our Constitution. It troubles me that someone like yourself who is now a public official would apparently not see this.

Also important, your brief post suggests an implicit assumption that we shouldn’t discuss important ideas and values in Kearny. Why not? I think that is exactly what a community should discuss. This isn't Pleasantville. If you haven't seen the film by that name, I suggest you watch it. It hits eerily close to home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are correct in that this is not Pleasantville, but it was you and your media circus that made it not be that way anymore. I did however take a long walk up the Avenue last night and was actually still proud to call this my town. And if this official that you are attacking can keep making me proud, then all the power to him.

OK, so my horrid son and I have upset your little apple cart. I get it. I got it when the administration refused to act in the face of a violation so blatant that it has made international news, their attorney told me that the recordings "weren't that bad," the board followed suit, the superintendent defended the teacher's behavior and nearly every one of Matthew’s classmates jumped on the bandwagon. I get it just fine. I also got it just fine when I asked you how you felt about these issues and you waffled me a half-answer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must be so proud of yourself calling your son "horrid". Those are not my words, but your exact quote. Even in jest I would never talk that way about my family. I am sure he has made such an impression on you like he has the rest of the people in Kearny.

What I would like you do, since you are now my elected representative, is to think about these things, and if you like, call me so we can discuss it. In fact, come on over and let’s have a beer. You will be welcome.

Paul LaClair

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you really think that you should be promoting your alcoholic vices out of here?

[Guest Guest]

Will you please stop with the anonymous posting bit.  The Strife 767 screen name is just as anonymous as posting as Guest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And this comes from whom? Do the people on that side of the argument take stupid lessons?

[Guest Guest]

Let Paul have his way.  Let Mayor Santos, the guy Paul thinks is doing a great job, remove all religious displays from the grounds of Town Hall.  Like Paul says, this is America.  Three or four people should be able to tell the rest of the town of what, 45,000, what to do right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's now how it works, and not what he's asking for. Town Hall still displays in December. The difference is that now it is in conformance with the law.

[Guest Guest]

So, you think that all people come a site called "Kearny on the Web" to hear about the religious injustices that were performed on you and your family throughout the years? That is your own personal thing.  Most of the posts here by you and your fellow band of cohorts have nothing to do with the town of Kearny.  I do suggest that you take it to a site that does promote that kind of belief.  As to being inconvenience, it does take time reading though all the garbage posted by you to get to what is happening in the Town of Kearny so that discredits your theory.

You are correct in that this is not Pleasantville, but it was you and your media circus that made it not be that way anymore. I did however take a long walk up the Avenue last night and was actually still proud to call this my town. And if this official that you are attacking can keep making me proud, then all the power to him.

You must be so proud of yourself calling your son "horrid". Those are not my words, but your exact quote.  Even in jest I would never talk that way about my family.  I am sure he has made such an impression on you like he has the rest of the people in Kearny.

Do you really think that you should be promoting your alcoholic vices out of here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it's just his personal thing, why do you keep arguing with him?

As for the rest of this . . . oh, man!

[Strife767]

Will you please stop with the anonymous posting bit.  The Strife 767 screen name is just as anonymous as posting as Guest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Way to completely miss my point.

My point is that one can easily register, which gives them an added ability to put people on an ignore list, which prevents their posts from appearing at all. In addition to the ability to just scroll past the 'offending' posts, that is an option for anyone.

Even without registering, the general response to these sorts of complaints on forums is usually "scroll and shut up." The ignore list is an additional resource that most forums don't have, so I pointed that out (and only registered users can take advantage of it). In the end, no one is truly justified in whining about not wanting to see certain people's posts, as a result (and they wouldn't be even if there was no 'ignore list functionality').

So, would you prefer I just give the standard answer of "scroll and shut up" instead?

[Strife767]

Let Paul have his way.  Let Mayor Santos, the guy Paul thinks is doing a great job, remove all religious displays from the grounds of Town Hall.  Like Paul says, this is America.  Three or four people should be able to tell the rest of the town of what, 45,000, what to do right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your ignorance of the Constitution is saddening.

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if you were a Muslim, Jew, or other non-Christian seeing the nativity in display at the Town Hall of your town.

It's not all about succumbing to the demands of whoever the majority is (in this case, Christians). That is not how this country's laws are designed. Deal with it.

[Strife767]

So, you think that all people come a site called "Kearny on the Web" to hear about the religious injustices that were performed on you and your family throughout the years? That is your own personal thing.  Most of the posts here by you and your fellow band of cohorts have nothing to do with the town of Kearny.

And of course, everyone else posts about nothing but issues directly related to the town:

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=13323

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=12627

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=13248

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=13211

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=10964

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=12904

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=12699

Take your hypocrisy and shove it. You have no issue with "2smart4u" creating a topic just to slam atheists/democrats/etc., but you'll whine and whine about Paul's posts? Give me a break.

[Strife767]

You are correct in that this is not Pleasantville, but it was you and your media circus that made it not be that way anymore.

The media did nothing but expose an existing problem in Paszkiewicz. It is no more the media's fault for making Kearny look bad than it is Matthew's fault for making Paszkiewicz look bad. They were HIS words--no one twisted them. It's his fault for doing something so shameful, and it's the Board's fault for not nipping it in the bud, having plenty of chance to before 'the media' ever caught wind of that whole thing.

Also, are you prepared to blame Paul for the sex scandal at KHS too? The shootout at Quick Chek? The To Catch a Predator conviction?

You must be so proud of yourself calling your son "horrid". Those are not my words, but your exact quote.

It was sarcasm, you imbecile. Really, really obvious sarcasm. Paul's said so many times how proud he is of his son.

Even in jest I would never talk that way about my family.  I am sure he has made such an impression on you like he has the rest of the people in Kearny.

That is a looong way to go, for a very lame insult.

Do you really think that you should be promoting your alcoholic vices out of here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, because Paul is the only person who consumes alcohol in all of Kearny. Not a bar to be found in this town, no sirree.

The preceding was also sarcasm--just warning you since you seem completely incapable of identifying it.

[Guest Paul]

So, you think that all people come a site called "Kearny on the Web" to hear about the religious injustices that were performed on you and your family throughout the years? That is your own personal thing.  Most of the posts here by you and your fellow band of cohorts have nothing to do with the town of Kearny.  I do suggest that you take it to a site that does promote that kind of belief.  As to being inconvenience, it does take time reading though all the garbage posted by you to get to what is happening in the Town of Kearny so that discredits your theory.

You are correct in that this is not Pleasantville, but it was you and your media circus that made it not be that way anymore. I did however take a long walk up the Avenue last night and was actually still proud to call this my town. And if this official that you are attacking can keep making me proud, then all the power to him.

You must be so proud of yourself calling your son "horrid". Those are not my words, but your exact quote.  Even in jest I would never talk that way about my family.  I am sure he has made such an impression on you like he has the rest of the people in Kearny.

Do you really think that you should be promoting your alcoholic vices out of here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know what topics I post on. You know from the topic itself that it's not about local events or news. So don't open the topic, since you're saying that the topic itself doesn't belong here. Problem solved, and you don't have to scroll. What you're saying just isn't true.

No doubt Matthew's actions upset your little black-and-white Pleasantville view of things, but he did what was right. Don't agree if that's your choice, but it's not as though your biases aren't obvious.

[Guest Guest]

Shakespear was right.......

[Stixx3969]

So, you think that all people come a site called "Kearny on the Web" to hear about the religious injustices that were performed on you and your family throughout the years? That is your own personal thing.  Most of the posts here by you and your fellow band of cohorts have nothing to do with the town of Kearny.  I do suggest that you take it to a site that does promote that kind of belief.  As to being inconvenience, it does take time reading though all the garbage posted by you to get to what is happening in the Town of Kearny so that discredits your theory.

You are correct in that this is not Pleasantville, but it was you and your media circus that made it not be that way anymore. I did however take a long walk up the Avenue last night and was actually still proud to call this my town. And if this official that you are attacking can keep making me proud, then all the power to him.

You must be so proud of yourself calling your son "horrid". Those are not my words, but your exact quote.  Even in jest I would never talk that way about my family.  I am sure he has made such an impression on you like he has the rest of the people in Kearny.

Do you really think that you should be promoting your alcoholic vices out of here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, you are correct. Internet censorship and the reenactment of prohibition, that'll fix every thing.

[Guest Guest]

Your ignorance of the Constitution is saddening.

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if you were a Muslim, Jew, or other non-Christian seeing the nativity in display at the Town Hall of your town.

It's not all about succumbing to the demands of whoever the majority is (in this case, Christians). That is not how this country's laws are designed. Deal with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're such a D**bA** it's beyond words. Seeing displays of other religions doesn't offend or frighten me. Common sense tells me that a Christmas tree, or an icon from any other religion, isn't the town hall's way of promoting religion.

You and Paul are the paranoid ones. You, Paul, and a few others always bring up the old "what if it was a Muslim teacher talking about his religion in class". But you never answer the question; what if the teacher was talking about Paul's beliefs? Do you know why? Because it wouldn't have been an issue.

[Guest Melanie]

Because many of the long-time posters on this board have been driven away, myself included, by how this site has become totally dominated by one subject and the tangent threads it has produced.

JW

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is bunk. If this guy is an elected official, he should be ashamed of himself making a remark like this, especially in public. No wonder Kearny has problems.

[Guest Melanie]

No, people are driven away because of your constant battle against religion. It threads through to each of your topics and posts here.  People are tired of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In other words: "You're kicking our behinds, Paul! Pleeeeeeaaaaasssseee stop!"

[Bern]

Your ignorance of the Constitution is saddening.

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if you were a Muslim, Jew, or other non-Christian seeing the nativity in display at the Town Hall of your town.

It's not all about succumbing to the demands of whoever the majority is (in this case, Christians). That is not how this country's laws are designed. Deal with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They could not less about the constitution. They simply want their beliefs validated.

[Guest Paul]

You're such a D**bA** it's beyond words.  Seeing displays of other religions doesn't offend or frighten me.  Common sense tells me that a Christmas tree, or an icon from any other religion, isn't the town hall's way of promoting religion. 

You and Paul are the paranoid ones.  You, Paul, and a few others always bring up the old "what if it was a Muslim teacher talking about his religion in class".  But you never answer the question; what if the teacher was talking about Paul's beliefs? Do you know why? Because it wouldn't have been an issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Common sense tells me that a Christmas tree, or an icon from any other religion, isn't the town hall's way of promoting religion." Oh yes it is. When I went down to town hall to complain about it years ago, I saw first-hand just how deep the biases ran, and how intent people were on defending their territory. The message sent is that this is a Christian town, and the repurcussions of that run up and down the line. Once the majority can get its way on that, they can bulldoze the minority on anything. And it's not like religious persecution doesn't have a long and tragic history. It does, including right here in the United States. That's why the line has to be drawn and carefully maintained.

And it doesn't harm you. Practice your religion in your church and in your homes and on the street if you like, but you can't use the government to promote it. The current display at Kearny Town Hall conforms to the law by including religions across the board. A Christmas tree standing alone does not do that. It's not a hard concept to understand, and it's not burdensome to apply. It wouldn't be an issue if the majority wasn't trying to defend its territory - the problem with that view is that this town and this country belong as much to non-Christians as to Christians.

As for what Matthew might have done had some teacher been preaching his beliefs, you don't have any basis for saying he wouldn't have acted the same way as he did here. What you're telling us is that you wouldn't turn in one of your own. That says something about you, but you don't know what Matthew would do if that happened. You're just very angry and very hateful because you didn't get your way.

If the situation presents itself, we'll see what he does. In all likelihood he'll never face the choice because no teacher is going to start promoting non-theism in Kearny High, knowing that if he does, he'll be out in the street in a heartbeat. That is a measure of the bias that was at work here. Until Matthew is confronted with that decision, all you're doing is venting your anger and your hatred. You're saying a lot about yourself, but nothing about him.

[Guest Paul]

They could not less about the constitution. They simply want their beliefs validated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. They think their beliefs are their whole world, and they shape the entire universe around their beliefs. They won't even consider that they might be wrong: "God said it, I believe it, end of discussion" should be "I BELIEVE God said it, and for me that's the end of my thinking about it." They don't see the difference, and as a result they cannot find common ground with those of us who disagree. It's very sad, and sometimes tragic. Maybe one day they'll listen to what we're trying to tell them.

[Strife767]

You're such a D**bA** it's beyond words.  Seeing displays of other religions doesn't offend or frighten me.  Common sense tells me that a Christmas tree, or an icon from any other religion, isn't the town hall's way of promoting religion.

Why do you think it's so dumb to keep secular institutions secular?

You and Paul are the paranoid ones.  You, Paul, and a few others always bring up the old "what if it was a Muslim teacher talking about his religion in class".

Which still hasn't really been answered.

But you never answer the question; what if the teacher was talking about Paul's beliefs?

lol, liar:

"I would be just as pissed off...if it was an atheist teacher telling kids that there is no god with the same conviction as Paszkiewicz asserted the truth of god." --http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=7755&view=findpost&p=52128

Do you know why?

Yes, tell me why I didn't answer the question that I actually did.

Because it wouldn't have been an issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mm-hmm. Whatever you say.

[Guest Guest]

"Common sense tells me that a Christmas tree, or an icon from any other religion, isn't the town hall's way of promoting religion." Oh yes it is. When I went down to town hall to complain about it years ago, I saw first-hand just how deep the biases ran, and how intent people were on defending their territory. The message sent is that this is a Christian town, and the repurcussions of that run up and down the line. Once the majority can get its way on that, they can bulldoze the minority on anything. And it's not like religious persecution doesn't have a long and tragic history. It does, including right here in the United States. That's why the line has to be drawn and carefully maintained.

And it doesn't harm you. Practice your religion in your church and in your homes and on the street if you like, but you can't use the government to promote it. The current display at Kearny Town Hall conforms to the law by including religions across the board. A Christmas tree standing alone does not do that. It's not a hard concept to understand, and it's not burdensome to apply. It wouldn't be an issue if the majority wasn't trying to defend its territory - the problem with that view is that this town and this country belong as much to non-Christians as to Christians.

As for what Matthew might have done had some teacher been preaching his beliefs, you don't have any basis for saying he wouldn't have acted the same way as he did here. What you're telling us is that you wouldn't turn in one of your own. That says something about you, but you don't know what Matthew would do if that happened. You're just very angry and very hateful because you didn't get your way.

If the situation presents itself, we'll see what he does. In all likelihood he'll never face the choice because no teacher is going to start promoting non-theism in Kearny High, knowing that if he does, he'll be out in the street in a heartbeat. That is a measure of the bias that was at work here. Until Matthew is confronted with that decision, all you're doing is venting your anger and your hatred. You're saying a lot about yourself, but nothing about him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're a phoney. Matt wouldn't have done anything because he wouldn't have been able to make an issue out of it. And I can say that on the same basis as you asking what if it was a teacher taling about Islam.

[Guest Guest]

"Common sense tells me that a Christmas tree, or an icon from any other religion, isn't the town hall's way of promoting religion." Oh yes it is. When I went down to town hall to complain about it years ago, I saw first-hand just how deep the biases ran, and how intent people were on defending their territory. The message sent is that this is a Christian town, and the repurcussions of that run up and down the line. Once the majority can get its way on that, they can bulldoze the minority on anything. And it's not like religious persecution doesn't have a long and tragic history. It does, including right here in the United States. That's why the line has to be drawn and carefully maintained.

And it doesn't harm you. Practice your religion in your church and in your homes and on the street if you like, but you can't use the government to promote it. The current display at Kearny Town Hall conforms to the law by including religions across the board. A Christmas tree standing alone does not do that. It's not a hard concept to understand, and it's not burdensome to apply. It wouldn't be an issue if the majority wasn't trying to defend its territory - the problem with that view is that this town and this country belong as much to non-Christians as to Christians.

As for what Matthew might have done had some teacher been preaching his beliefs, you don't have any basis for saying he wouldn't have acted the same way as he did here. What you're telling us is that you wouldn't turn in one of your own. That says something about you, but you don't know what Matthew would do if that happened. You're just very angry and very hateful because you didn't get your way.

If the situation presents itself, we'll see what he does. In all likelihood he'll never face the choice because no teacher is going to start promoting non-theism in Kearny High, knowing that if he does, he'll be out in the street in a heartbeat. That is a measure of the bias that was at work here. Until Matthew is confronted with that decision, all you're doing is venting your anger and your hatred. You're saying a lot about yourself, but nothing about him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The current display includes all religions? How so?

Let's get real here. You pretend to be tolerant of religious diplays as long as all religions are included. Trurthfully, you want nothing to be displayed. That's your real goal. I hope they do keep putting the stuff up just to drive you crazy.

[Guest Guest]

Exactly. They think their beliefs are their whole world, and they shape the entire universe around their beliefs. They won't even consider that they might be wrong: "God said it, I believe it, end of discussion" should be "I BELIEVE God said it, and for me that's the end of my thinking about it." They don't see the difference, and as a result they cannot find common ground with those of us who disagree. It's very sad, and sometimes tragic. Maybe one day they'll listen to what we're trying to tell them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't you think your beliefs are your whole world also?

[Guest Guest]

Why do you think it's so dumb to keep secular institutions secular?

Which still hasn't really been answered.

lol, liar:

"I would be just as pissed off...if it was an atheist teacher telling kids that there is no god with the same conviction as Paszkiewicz asserted the truth of god." --http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=7755&view=findpost&p=52128

Yes, tell me why I didn't answer the question that I actually did.

Mm-hmm. Whatever you say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're the liar. You're just as fanatical about your beliefs as any of the Christian "fundies" that you fear so much.

[Guest Paul]

You're a phoney.  Matt wouldn't have done anything because he wouldn't have been able to make an issue out of it.  And I can say that on the same basis as you asking what if it was a teacher taling about Islam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not true. Matt is very principled, whether you are willing to admit it or not. I hate to say it, but the biases here in town were and are obvious. Do you seriously believe that a Muslim teacher would have gotten away with this sort of thing? He would not.

[Guest Paul]

The current display includes all religions? How so?

Let's get real here.  You pretend to be tolerant of religious diplays as long as all religions are included.  Trurthfully, you want nothing to be displayed.  That's your real goal.  I hope they do keep putting the stuff up just to drive you crazy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not true. You don't know what I want. I'd be perfectly happy to have all religions represented in a display. It wouldn't show favoritism and therefore would not violate the Constitution or anyone's interests. So why should I oppose it? I wouldn't and I don't. In fact, what that does is give Humanism, Buddhism, etc., a place at the table of religions and remind people that there are many religions. I am completely in favor of that. It's the exact opposite, the perfect antidote, of a Christian town displaying the nativity scene and nothing else. Is it possible that you're the ones who are driven crazy because you're not getting the exclusivity you want?

Try as you will, you can't put me into your narrow little box. You're obviously angry, but you don't understand how I think at all. Wouldn't you be a lot happier and a lot more productive by listening for a change? By giving credit that someone else just might have thought about these things in a way that you have not? How else can we learn from others? Or do you already know everything? If you presume to know what I think and how I feel, you presume to know more than you do.

[Guest Paul]

Don't you think your beliefs are your whole world also?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No I don't. If you look at the way I write, you'll see that I listen to the evidence and guide myself by it. Not perfectly, but as best as I can. So I'll argue my opinions strongly, but there's are distinct and clear differences between how I present an argument and how a religious fundamentalist presents an argument.

By contrast, the religious fundamentalists characteristically make up their minds what they want to believe and will not change their minds no matter how much the evidence proves them wrong. They are taught to think that way. "I believe it, therefore it's true" is the core of their concept of faith, and from that all thngs follow. I'm dead serious. That's exactly what happens when people allow themselves to think from their beliefs to that degree and in that way. You can see it in the way they write, in the way they completely ignore facts that don't fit their pre-determined conclusions and in in the way they change the subject every time someone makes a solid point against them. Read any of these topics with an open mind and you'll see it, if you're capable of reading them that way, that is.

If you are a fundamentalist, as I suspect you may be, you'll have to learn to think all over again. I mean that quite literally, because when you get used to the mistaken notion that the universe conforms itself to what we believe, you literally have to train yourself to think all over again. It's why most reasonable people run the other way when they see a religious zealot trying to engage them in a discussion: you can't have a real discussion with people like that, and you're just going to get irritated if you try. My advantage is that I once thought a bit that way myself, so I understand it better than most. I know what the re-training involves because I had to do it as a young man some 35 years ago.