[Stone Cold Bored]

There's that curious attachment to Paulie again.  Where there's smoke there's fire, I think there's something going on here .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*Munch, munch* I love extra butter...

[Board of Education]

OK,  I'll stop posting right after Mumbo & Dumbo (aka: Paulie & Strife) stop their verbal diarrhea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Paul, Strife, I'm with 2Smart4u on this one; if there is really diarrhea coming out of your mouths, then we've got a problem. . .

No Paul, many people wnat to this to be over because they simply can't stand you anymore. That's all!

I am going to ask the age old question here; if you don't want anything to do with him, why do you continue to read/respond to what he is saying?! Your -ahem- argument is getting you nowhere, so stop enforcing it.

[Please !]

I would add a child who the parent(s) are not prepared to raise, whether because of a lack of money, responsibility, maturity, etc. I think it's better for a child to not be born than to be born to parents who can't adequately raise him/her. It's funny (only because I have an appreciation for dark humor) that prospective adoptive parents have to go through an assload of paperwork and evaluation before they can even be considered for adopting a child, but any moron couple of horny teenagers can pop out as many as they want, and no one's got anything to say about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An excellent point. It would seem that most Christians (and Leigh, I know I am generalizing here but stick with me; I agree with your argument about Christianism vs. Christianity) are more concerned with whether or not the child comes into the world than what happens to it once it is in existence. Why do they not devote more attention to whether or not infants are being properly cared for than making sure more of them are born? Thousands of people, many with one, two three, four or even more children, are living on the streets or in temporary shelters. In many places, such as the rougher areas of D.C., these children have a greater chance of dying, becoming an irreversible drug addict, going to prison, or getting a sexually transmitted disease before adulthood than their chance of living a productive life. This statistic should surely frighten anybody, no matter what their religious beliefs, far more than whether a poor mom in a back alley was raped and hence wants an abortion, or whether two people of the same gender have fallen in love with each other.

If Christians spent half as much time attending to the needy as they did protesting gay marriage and stem cell research, maybe we wouldn't have 3 million homeless roaming the streets of America (http://www.nscahh.org/hunger.asp?id2=8802). Or perhaps if they didn't put those few bucks into the church collecting tin to fuel yet another place of faith somewhere, and instead donated it to a homeless shelter, God, if he exists, might - just might - forgive them. Or does "He" really need the money more than that old man being led off to jail, arrested for sleeping on a bench because he was just evicted from the one-room apartment he was too poor to pay for? Anyone who answers yes to that question should, in my opinion, be thrown in jail themselves.

[Please !]

Rights are based in morality, and morality is established in god (God).  Man thus has no power to alter the foundation for rights, which does not appear to be the case with your system (though your description above is so thin as to allow impressive space for elaboration).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe that what you meant to say, if you were being thoughtful, is that your - and certainly many others - opinion about what morality should include is established in God. That set of morals, while inclusive of many commendable views, does not represent the population as a whole, and it certainly does not represent me. There are many reasons for this.

Aids is certainly one of the most terrifying viruses of the day, and a cure is being desperately sought after. But ought we not take every step to stemming its flow in the meantime? The Vatican seems to think not. They are openly opposing the use of condoms to prevent the spread of HIV. People are being sent by the church into areas of the world where HIV is most dangerous and, instead of teaching about condom use, they "spread inaccurate information about contraception and sexually transmitted disease, and they withhold accurate information...Christian missionaries have been known to preach the sinfulness of condom use in villages where no other information about condoms is available." Both of these excerpts were taken from Letter to a Christian Nation, by Sam Harris, pages 33 and 34. Such ridiculous views will surely have more negative affects than good, and are morally wrong.

Another incredibly twisted view spouted by "God" is that abortion is a horrible sin and should be punished as such. This so-called "Moral" position that the church has taken is represented in El Salvador. It is now illegal for a woman to undergo an abortion in El Salvador under all circumstances, including rape, births that would threaten the lives of the mother, and incest. As if this were not enough, there are women serving prison sentences for up to 30 years for having an abortion. Does this not seem both ludicrous and obviously morally indefensible? Or is your mind so convoluted by Christianity that you think the life of a fully-grown woman is less important than that of a small bundle of cells that was achieved through a forced sexual encounter? Your logic is both contorted and damning.

So yes, I agree with you that morals and rights are connected in many ways, but only when those morals are just. And as has been proved many times, those of the church are often not so. I would say it is the right of a mother to decide whether or not to keep a child that was forced upon her, or that would threaten her life. I would also say it is a right for African citizens to be given accurate information about condom use if it could possibly save them from a horrible death. Examine your own logic for a second and stop to think. You might just realize how illogical it is.

[Stone Cold Bored]

Paul, Strife, I know that what these people are saying is completely sickening, but sooner or later you gotta sit back and let the morons have their say. Just let them ramble; relax, and have a good laugh. I've even made popcorn once or twice while reading 2S4U and Patriot's comments; it's great entertainment!

2S4U, if you are indeed bored, then I very much hope you will get tired of posting and leave. Insults, degrading remarks, and uninformed ranting do not qualify as productive discussion, and neither does trying to downgrade someone (Paul & Strife) by implying, as I am sure you were intending, that they are homosexuals just because they made a few perfectly acceptable comments. Your arguments have been nothing short of pathetic, as I am sure any reasonable person would recognize. You can be an intelligent individual and still argue either side of this situation, as has been demonstrated by Paul and Bryan, neither of whom (as far as I am aware) has had to resort to crude insults to get a point across. So if you are bored, good; so much the better for everyone with a brain in their heads.

[A Win For Bush]

The debt reference was meant in regard to debts to a political party, not $.  Of course that kind of debt probably costs us all more in the long run.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I knew what you meant, and I agree with it. I just wanted to further point out some of the trouble that the current administration has gotten us into.

[The quality of education]

Let me give you a bit of my history.

When I was going to school in the sixties and seventies I attended schools that either had a moment of prayer, prayer over the intercom, and the Pledge of Allegiance. Sometimes combinations of two or more. My father told me I didn't have to pray with the teacher or even pay attention to the one over the intercom. Later in the seventh grade I found out that I had the right not to say the pledge. I mainly thought the entire idea of forcing someone to say a rote pledge to a flag was silly, but I also objected to what I saw as coerced prayer. When I told my teacher that I was no longer going to stand and say the pledge and that no one was required to do so, he went ballistic. He told me that he was a vet, and that in his class I would stand. To make a long story short I was disciplined, berated, called names, threatened, and sent to the principals office where I was told to knock it off. Though the teacher was mad that I wouldn't say the pledge, the school was mad that I had let others in on the fact that they didn't have to say the pledge either. When my father heard about this, he could have told me to go along as well. He was a vet and he had many of the same sympathies as the teacher. What he did was to march down to school with me, get the teacher into the principals office, and then read them the riot act and tell them that he went to war just like my teacher, and it was to defend the constitutional rights of Americans and this country and that I had the right to not say the pledge. Needless to say I was left alone, though I still caught flack from my teacher and a few students.

Because of my dad I learned that real patriotism is respecting the rights of others, not forcing your beliefs on unwilling school children. What's going on in Paul's school is similar. A good American and a good christian would know what the teacher did was wrong. The school has not stood up for the rights of their students, only the right of the teacher to violate those rights. Had my father not gone down and forced the school to acknowledge my rights and threaten the teacher with disciplinary action if he ever did it again it, would have sent a signal to other like minded individuals that the school was on their side and that they could do and preach as they please in their classroom.

Paul needs to take this to them and make it sting. It needs to be shown to other teachers and schools that this will not be tolerated. If it doesn't happen then kids might as well check their rights at the door because other teachers will feel compelled to push their beliefs on them without repercussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for sharing this. It was a wonderful read. Your dad did a great job.

[The quality of education]

Let me give you a bit of my history.

When I was going to school in the sixties and seventies I attended schools that either had a moment of prayer, prayer over the intercom, and the Pledge of Allegiance. Sometimes combinations of two or more. My father told me I didn't have to pray with the teacher or even pay attention to the one over the intercom. Later in the seventh grade I found out that I had the right not to say the pledge. I mainly thought the entire idea of forcing someone to say a rote pledge to a flag was silly, but I also objected to what I saw as coerced prayer. When I told my teacher that I was no longer going to stand and say the pledge and that no one was required to do so, he went ballistic. He told me that he was a vet, and that in his class I would stand. To make a long story short I was disciplined, berated, called names, threatened, and sent to the principals office where I was told to knock it off. Though the teacher was mad that I wouldn't say the pledge, the school was mad that I had let others in on the fact that they didn't have to say the pledge either. When my father heard about this, he could have told me to go along as well. He was a vet and he had many of the same sympathies as the teacher. What he did was to march down to school with me, get the teacher into the principals office, and then read them the riot act and tell them that he went to war just like my teacher, and it was to defend the constitutional rights of Americans and this country and that I had the right to not say the pledge. Needless to say I was left alone, though I still caught flack from my teacher and a few students.

Because of my dad I learned that real patriotism is respecting the rights of others, not forcing your beliefs on unwilling school children. What's going on in Paul's school is similar. A good American and a good christian would know what the teacher did was wrong. The school has not stood up for the rights of their students, only the right of the teacher to violate those rights. Had my father not gone down and forced the school to acknowledge my rights and threaten the teacher with disciplinary action if he ever did it again it, would have sent a signal to other like minded individuals that the school was on their side and that they could do and preach as they please in their classroom.

Paul needs to take this to them and make it sting. It needs to be shown to other teachers and schools that this will not be tolerated. If it doesn't happen then kids might as well check their rights at the door because other teachers will feel compelled to push their beliefs on them without repercussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for sharing this. It was a wonderful read. Your dad did a wonderful job.

[A Win For Bush]

Impeachment would divide the nation?  I think THAT dog's already off the porch!

And as for a Republican or Democcrat I'd be absolutely elated IF we could just have an honest, decent, hard working man/woman in office regardless of party, I know it's not likely but I'd love to see an independent with no party ties or debts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That last post was mine, I forgot to log on.

Impeachment would divide the nation. It would create a lot of tension and would also begin a process that would drag on for many months. We don't need that right now. What we need is for the current president to start listening to his advisors and act on the information that he is given. The Democratic party has already announced that impeachment is not going to be on the agenda, and rightly so. I think that they are showing a great understanding of the current position of things by not trying to drive Bush out of office. Even though I think he is a terrible President, it wouldn't help things to impeach him at this point.

As for your last comment, while I agree with it fully, it is not possible at the moment. The world is in too much consternation for that to occur. I hope that it will happen at some point. As for debts, I think that is a lost cause once you get into the trillions.

[The quality of education]

RIGHT, the Board Attorney and the Supt. should be fired for a teacher doing wrong. Yeah!

By the way, once again, they addressed the matter, but until all you extremists get everybody on the Board of Ed, Supt., Mayor, teachers, etc, etc, etc fired or hung or whatever you looking for you will not stop crying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you would go back and take another look at my post, you will see that I never once said that I thought the Board Attorney or the Superintendent should be fired. I do think that they aren't taking enough responsibility for the situation. It is highly likely that they knew or suspected that something like this was going on, and yet they did not act. That theory, at this point, will be all but impossible to prove, but it is still likely.

Your second comment is foolish. First of all, I am not an "extremist." I will use the term "we," but it is referring to those that would like to see the teacher punished for what he did, not your definition of extremists. "We" do not wish to see anyone hung, nor the BOE, Supt., Mayor, or teachers fired from their jobs. We want to see the Superintendent and Board take action to prevent this kind of thing happening in the future, and the teacher step up to the plate and apologize for what he did. The first step in this process is for the BOE to recognize that what the teacher did was wrong. Things can progress from there, but firstly the Superintendent and the Board Attorney need to admit, in public, that this kind of thing that the teacher did is unacceptable.

In future, please refrain from directing the attention of the thread away from the matter at hand by making the people who want to stop this kind of thing seem like horrible extremists. And read posts more carefully before you comment on them. Thank you.

[The quality of education]

A teacher makes a few religious comments in a history class, and you want the Superintendent and board attorney fired for "gross incompetence" ??  So you want to go easy on them, huh ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow. I thought that my standard for the average American could sink no lower, but apparently I was wrong. I can't believe that I am actually responding to this comment. I guess that I thought it was so stupid that I couldn't let it go unanswered.

A few religious comments, huh? I see. And Martin Luther King Jr. made a couple of light speeches, and Einstein did that one sort of important equation thingy, and Ghandi said those things about that other thing that was only kinda worth paying attention to. Is my message getting through to you yet bud, or should I go on?

There is no "going easy on" in this situation. This is one of those rare circumstances where there is a definite right and wrong. Just like the teacher had a choice of right and wrong (and he picked the latter, in case anyone was still in doubt), the Board of Education and, more importantly, the US court system now has a choice between right and wrong. They must choose the right coarse of action if the justice system of this country is to be faithfully upheld.

Yes, the superintendent and board attorney are showing gross incompetence in this situation, not because they have not fired the teacher, but because they have not taken any action at all to help the situation. They are either blind to the obvious or being pulled by religious backing and beliefs in a direction that will only further the conflict. This man was a history teacher, and these were students going to a public school. Please, America, lift the veil from your eyes and see without barriers what this man did. Put aside your religious beliefs and social pressures. Put yourself, if at all possible, in the shoes of a bystander. Look at what this man did, at the comments that he made, and realize just how wrong it was.

There is a clear path being path being laid here from this issue to religion. Because if religion makes this right, then religion is wrong.

[What the Kids Are Saying]

Of course my comments are "Smart". Unlike you, I actually finished high school. You, on the other hand, seem trapped in the mentality of a prepubescent child incapable of actually saying something worthwhile and deciding to take potshots instead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This thread was started to give kids a chance to comment on this issue. It was not intended as a battle ground for emotional adults. Please take your war somewhere else.

he needs to grow up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You, Mr. Guest, are a fool. If you think that Matthew acted like a child in this situation then something upstairs isn't turning on. He acted more like an adult than most twice his age would have. Now maybe you know him personally, in which case your other comments might very well be justified. But do not call him childish for what he did in this situation, because all that does is show your own level of immaturity.