Petition to have Paszkiewicz fired

[Guest pay attention]

So wait...you have a sense of humor after all? Even if it's lame.

And a strawman. So far, I have not heard the Leclair's asking for P. to be fired...even though he richly deserves it. Paskiewicz's actions are hardly 'a mistake'. He has veered into religion on multiple occasions and, if the students are to be believed, has been doing so for years. Moreover, he lied about it later, meaning it was not a mistake but deliberately breaking the law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's obvious you are new to the subject matter. Ask Paul directly what he wants and you might just the answer.

[oneellama]

Sorry, but when you make a mistake around here you are not permitted to post ever again.

This is the LeClair law.

Make (1) mistake and you are banished for life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think your initial post here does not move the dialogue forward and is unfair. To my knowledge, Mr. LaClair has not called for Mr. Paskiewicz to be fired, by petition or otherwise, let alone call for the teacher to be “banished for life,” whatever that means. In addition, LaClair did not author this blog topic. To date, he has only entered it to correct a factual error. Obviously, this does not preclude Mr. LaClair from changing his mind or his strategy at a later time.

It is ironic to me that you say what you did; if anyone raised the issue of banishment, it appears to have been Paskiewicz, when he spoke to the students about their eternal fate in hell.

You could also critique the user who created this topic, rather than LaClair. But please do so constructively.

I start with the presumption that you are a fair-minded person, and that you are willing to make an effort to move things forward rationally. If that's not true, then you need not read any further in this post, and we are all just blowing off steam. That may feel good at some level, but if we are to move beyond simply throwing hand grenades at each other, we have to start with some common foundation on which to build towards a resolution.

I’m assuming you are not questioning Mr. LaClair’s right to have his grievances addressed (not necessarily agreed to, just addressed) within the freedoms our system guarantees us.

I also assume we can agree that actions taken within the system by the teacher and the administration to date have not addressed those grievances to Mr. LaClair's satisfaction. Some may think he should be satisfied, but the facts say he is not.

Let’s have a real dialogue here. Are my two statements immediately above ones you can agree to? If you want to come at it from a different angle, we can do that, too, but I would ask you to do it in a parallel thread. Humor me by pursuing this line of thinking a bit, and let's see where we actually agree, and where we part paths, if at all.

[Guest Guest]

So what happens when someone is ONESIDED.

Who threatened who?

Petitioning to take away someone's livelihood and teaching certification is any different??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody is entitled to be a teacher. This so-called "teacher" in question has shown that he doesn't deserve to be a teacher by repeatedly breaking the law inside a public school classroom. Of course he should be fired.

Should a public school teacher who tell his students all Blacks belong in hell be fired? Hell yes.

[Guest Guest]

Despite Mr. LeClair's statement that he is not looking for disciplinary action against Mr. P, his actions speak louder than his words.  One doesn't go to the media and internet to vilify a man without an agenda.  One doesn't start a webblog without an agenda.  I've followed this weblog for weeks, and when the locals stopped posting, having tired of the issue, suddenly the website was inundated with comments by his "far and away" supporters, making the most incendiary comments.  Keep fanning the flames, Paul.  Keep making the bullets and then sitting back while other people shoot them at Mr. P, the Board, and the town, and then guilelessly wonder why people won't support you.  Your original message had credence; your methods since that time have been abhorrent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely unbelievable. You are acting as if there's something wrong to seek disciplinary action against a "teacher" who repeatedly break the law during class. After all, all he did was breaking the Constitution of the United States of America and spewing hate speech in a classroom funded by taxes during work hours paid for by taxes. No biggie right?

What's next? You defending a Klansman teacher who tells his Black students that they belong in hell? Should he keep his job too?

[Guest A. V. Blom]

Don't you know that RULES do not apply to the LeClairs. They can do whatever they want.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you pulled that out of what kind of thin air, again?

[Guest A. V. Blom]

It's people with a mindset like you that will doom this country. WOW

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And why, exactly. On this subject, I've so far heard a lot of screaming...and exactly zero reasoning why.

[Guest A. V. Blom]

It's obvious you are new to the subject matter. Ask Paul directly what he wants and you might just the answer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

New...define 'new'. I've read it all, and Paul at at least one point directly stated he did NOT ask for P. to be fired.

[Guest Psychologist]

I think your initial post here does not move the dialogue forward and is unfair.  To my knowledge, Mr. LaClair has not called for Mr. Paskiewicz to be fired, by petition or otherwise, let alone call for the teacher to be “banished for life,”  whatever that means.  In addition, LaClair did not author this blog topic.  To date, he has only entered it to correct a factual error.  Obviously, this does not preclude Mr. LaClair from changing his mind or his strategy at a later time.

It is ironic to me that you say what you did; if anyone raised the issue of banishment, it appears to have been Paskiewicz, when he spoke to the students about their eternal fate in hell.

You could also critique the user who created this topic, rather than LaClair.  But please do so constructively.

I start with the presumption that you are a fair-minded person, and that you are willing to make an effort to move things forward rationally.  If that's not true, then you need not read any further in this post, and we are all just blowing off steam.  That may feel good at some level, but if we are to move beyond simply throwing hand grenades at each other, we have to start with some common foundation on which to build towards a resolution.

I’m assuming you are not questioning Mr. LaClair’s right to have his grievances addressed (not necessarily agreed to, just addressed) within the freedoms our system guarantees us.

I also assume we can agree that actions taken within the system by the teacher and the administration to date have not addressed those grievances to Mr. LaClair's satisfaction.  Some may think he should be satisfied, but the facts say he is not. 

Let’s have a real dialogue here.  Are my two statements immediately above ones you can agree to?  If you want to come at it from a different angle, we can do that, too, but I would ask you to do it in a parallel thread.  Humor me by pursuing this line of thinking a bit, and let's see where we actually agree, and where we part paths, if at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read your posts and you come across as the good doctor sitting in the chair and everyone else in these posts are lying down listening to you.

I want to know who died and left you moderator?

You seem to be more intelligent than others here so please do not read INTO the posts, just read them. I never said LaClair wants the teacher banished for life, I made a general statement.

Now follow me closely, for this will be my last post. This has become a circus. You have people on one side and people on another side, let's call it the LaClair side and the teacher side. I can be rational and unbiased. Here we go.

A teacher preaches in a public school history class. A student does not approve and secretly records the class. The student brings the topic to the administration, the student claims they do not believe him (teacher claims he did not do this), the student presents a disc containing the teacher preaching, (this meeting which was to discuss the actions of a teacher who broke the law and had the LaClairs so distressed, was not attended by either parent, especially Paul, who is an attorney. Matt is a 16 year old MINOR, any issue in school which directly effects a child is always discussed with parents/guardians) This has now opened up the teacher to other ALLEGED claims of similar preachings in the past, keep in mind that this claim by the LaClairs is the only FORMAL, DOCUMENTED claim against this teacher. The Board of Ed now has to discipline this unlawful act which the teacher did in class. They have the right to discipline this teacher as they see fit. Keep in mind this is the first offense. They can verbally warn him not to do it again (which seems unacceptable to the LaClairs and their followers) or any other form of discipline they want. After such, the matter is OVER and life goes on.

You can now draw your own conclusion, for the post here are out of control.

[Guest Guest]

Despite Mr. LeClair's statement that he is not looking for disciplinary action against Mr. P, his actions speak louder than his words.  One doesn't go to the media and internet to vilify a man without an agenda.  One doesn't start a webblog without an agenda.  I've followed this weblog for weeks, and when the locals stopped posting, having tired of the issue, suddenly the website was inundated with comments by his "far and away" supporters, making the most incendiary comments.  Keep fanning the flames, Paul.  Keep making the bullets and then sitting back while other people shoot them at Mr. P, the Board, and the town, and then guilelessly wonder why people won't support you.  Your original message had credence; your methods since that time have been abhorrent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

KOTW was innundated with posts from all over the world when the story broke in The New York Times. There's no reason to suppose anyone put the thousands of people who checked in, or the hundreds who posted, up to it.

It's amazing that Paszkiewicz's supporters are so focused on the idea of his termination. The LaClairs have not called for that. Obviously, his supporters know what the punishment could be.

[Guest Guest]

KOTW was innundated with posts from all over the world when the story broke in The New York Times. There's no reason to suppose anyone put the thousands of people who checked in, or the hundreds who posted, up to it.

It's amazing that Paszkiewicz's supporters are so focused on the idea of his termination. The LaClairs have not called for that. Obviously, his supporters know what the punishment could be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank god for KOTW. KOTW kept this story alive and allowed everyone to express their opinion. I am a Kearny resident. The entity that is at fault here is not Paxzkiewicz or LaClair, it is the Kearny Board of Education who for political reasons tried to brush this matter under the rug instead of dealing with it in a professional manner. The Board has in the past also failed to act or acted based on political agendas not what was best for our children. Mr. P should have been disciplined by suspension without pay and then allowed to return with a stipulation that he could not preach in class. Professionalism on behalf of the Kearny School Board would have avoided the national attention which is making Kearny look bad. Mayor Santos should put some informal pressure on the board members as well to take action. This is terrible for Kearny and indirectly to the Mayor.

[Guest Guest]

You can now draw your own conclusion, for the post here are out of control.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tp Psychologist,

Pardon me, but the categories you have constructed of "LeClair" supporters and "teachers" supporters are neither logical nor accurate. You've assumed that the posts in favor of a disciplinary process for teachers who abuse their authority in the classroom are not written by colleagues and co educators. Please be aware that many of us are educators within and outside of Kearny and we know exactly what is at stake here.

Secondly, if you want to argue the "minor" angle, I doubt any reasonable judicial entity would look kindly upon an adult using the classroom to preach a divisive point of view. The imbalance of power within a classroom cannot be overstated-and its one that usually works in favor of the instructor. It seems as if the administration of Kearny High does not have a reputation for being highly responsive to students of Mr. P.

Thirdly, if LeClair and the Muslim female student who were obvious targets of this teacher's abuse of power, what makes you think that their peers are not affected by this hate speech? The environment of the classroom, the covenant of trust, discourse and acceptance has already been violated by the teacher when he trangressed the responsibilities of his job.To put it another way, if a teacher/professor/authority figure discriminates against my peer and/or friend, I have been some way been forced to witness the act of abuse. In this case, that would be approximately twenty minors in the direct act?

Thanks to the interactors O and Paul-very articulate and edifying posts.

[Guest Guest]

Good...always nice to know how people waste their time. For myself, I play pool...it's more enjoyable than prayer, and probably more useful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that's acceptable! This is a free country! You can do and say whatever you want! I choose to pray as well. Paul LaClair chooses to be an atheist I choose to be a christian. The majority of the people in Kearny also chosoe to be christians. The problem is when there is someone like the LaClairs who want to make people think like him! That's the reason why he is been opening so many topics! He is accussing the teacher for doing something...and he is doing the same thing. Paul this is a free country! Your anger will not allow you to go too far. Relax and enoy your chirstmas!

[Calybos]

And that's acceptable! This is a free country! You can do and say whatever you want! I choose to pray as well. Paul LaClair chooses to be an atheist I choose to be a christian. The majority of the people in Kearny also chosoe to be christians. The problem is when there is someone like the LaClairs who want to make people  think like him! That's the reason why he is been opening so many topics! He is accussing the teacher for doing something...and he is doing the same thing. Paul this is a free country! Your anger will not allow you to go too far. Relax and enoy your chirstmas!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What on earth are you talking about? When has Paul demanded that anyone think the way he does? How is posting on a public forum "exactly the same thing" as misusing your position as a teacher--a representative of government--to brainwash captive schoolchildren with your pet superstitions?

Paul doesn't seem particularly angry to me, but then again, not all anger is unjustified. Anger in the face of injustice is particularly valuable, for example.

[Strife767]

See what happens when someone from outside Kearny tries to exchange ideas? Some idiot from Kearny threatens. Keep showing America what Kearny is like. They are still watching this board.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your generalization is no better. You know, 75% of the entire USA's population believes all this God nonsense, so it's not just Kearny, and on top of that, majority doesn't make right anyway, so how about you think a little before you express a sentiment right out of the fundamentalis mindset before you say something like that. You speak of Kearny the way fundies speak of "false cults" a.k.a. sects of Christianity they don't agree with. And that's within the same damned religion.

I have lived in Kearny for 20+ years, and I would like nothing more than to see that teacher canned at _least_. He only broke one of the fundamental laws of the entire country. Anything less would set a very bad precedent (actually, not having to face any criminal charges is already by itself too soft, in my opinion. He did break the law, after all). Besides, the admission of guilt is right there, where he denied saying the incriminating statements, before he was proven wrong. Caught red-handed.

If a teacher needn't even fear so much as losing his/her job for telling students, during class time mind you, of a particular religion that they belong in hell, what is going to stop any other teachers from fearlessly trampling on the separation of church and state in the future?

[Strife767]

Get real! Your petition won't get a teacher fired. As far as I know the board has already made a decision. So, how about get a life, get busy and stop giving your opinion on an issue that you have no idea what is going on...The students in the classroom do not agree with Matthew, in fact they think he is an idiot. They are the best witness we have....by the way, you are from Texas, right? Yeah...A little bit too far from Kearny...Thanks for trying though, your concern for Kearny is really touching...BUT WE DON'T NEED IT!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyone who thinks Matthew was an idiot in this circumstance needs all the help they can get, Kearnian or not.

[Strife767]

My question is this, Was this man a good teacher before this little spoiled brat,

I don't know what kind of ideal (to you, at least) theocracy you have in your head, but in this country, and this reality, to expect people to obey the law is not being "spoiled."

who spends too much time thinking how he can be the center of everyones attention,

Are you kidding me? Who exactly stepped over that line of controversy first? If the teacher didn't want to be the center of attention, he should have known his place. He may be a preacher too, but here he was at school. A public school. Not giving a sermon at a church. He brought it on himself, and I am glad that a student had the guts to stand up to him and to people like you to uphold the Constitution.

started this thing?" YES HE WAS AND YES HE IS." Just remember one thing, One nation, under GOD.

"under god" was only added in 1954, you moron. It's a modern addition, snuck in during the Red Scare when everyone was afraid of conspiracy theories about Communist spies being everywhere. It has nothing to do with the values this nation was actually founded on.

Did you know that the USA existed for nearly two centuries before that, or did you spend all your time thinking about God in your own history class?

Both of my children had this wonderful teacher and both are now in the educational field, so my vote goes to the man who taught my children.

Of course, this is a completely unbiased statement made by someone who has a clear understanding of both the First Amendment, and has in no way prejudged or leveled ad hominem attacks against the student who stood up for the Constitution, not to mention catching his teacher in an outright lie.

Just who do you think you're kidding?

Also remember this boy , if offended could have gotten up and walked out of that class anytime he wanted to

LOL, sounds like the "girls get raped because they wear skimpy clothes" type of logic. The _teacher_ is the one who did wrong (and illegal, at that). He had every right to stick up for himself, since he was right and the teacher was wrong.

, but instead he chose to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

The teacher deserves every bit of controversy he gets from his blatant contempt for the Establishment Clause. He brought it upon himself. I'm glad it was made into a "mountain." It serves him right to see what happens when he starts telling public school students, children he is supposed to be teaching history too, that they belong in hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Strife767]

Thank you for this board!

I learned about this issue from the Dec. 19th issue of the New York Times New York Region section. I was appalled-but not surprised-at the abuse of power performed by Mr. Paskiewicz. While I am completely in support of Mr. La Clair Sr's and Jr.'s efforts, I 'd like to point out another aspect of this case.

Mr. Paskiewicz pointed out a Muslim American female student and told her in public, on the property of Kearny High School, that she was "going to hell", because her family did not practice this teacher's interpretation of the Bible. The ignorance inherent in this statement could take a day to unpack, however, what occurs to me, is that this qualifies as hate speech.

My concern extends to that young woman and other Muslim students at Kearny High who have been publically discriminated by Mr. Paskiewicz and witnessed by the Kearny High School community. What message does this send to the various communities constituting the Kearny area? The most obvious one is that religious bigotry is very much tolerated by administration, faculty and students.

I've sent a letter, as a concerned Muslim American citizen, to Kearny High's principal, vice principle and a member of the Board of Education expressing my concerns that this aspect of this case not be ignored. Hate speech such as the sentiment expressed by this teacher is intolerable-why is this remotely excusable?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For one, I have not forgotten about this part of it, to be sure--all the more reason that firing honestly seems far too good for this bigoted man.

[Strife767]

Sorry, but when you make a mistake around here you are not permitted to post ever again.

This is the LeClair law.

Make (1) mistake and you are banished for life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Idiot. The teacher didn't make a "mistake." He knew damned well what he was doing, continued to do it for years beforehand, _and_ he knew it was wrong, which is why he denied making the statements to his superiors right up until the point Matthew whipped out his trusty CDs with the hard evidence on them.

Face it. He was nailed by the truth. Hard. And he deserved it. He got caught, and he won't even apologize or anything. Firing is too good for him.

[Strife767]

Not to sidetrack the issue, a teacher who considers himself knowledgeble in religion would know that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic faiths. Muslims revere Moses, Christ and Mohammad as prophets of God. I'm pointing this out to unscore the importance of interfaith respect (and that includes Hinduism, etc) and scholarship as opposed to divisiveness. However, I must add that there are many faith practicing folk including scientists who subsribe to both evolution and creation theory and see the possibilities of both systems. Read Karen Armstrong if you are interested in learning about Islam from a neutral perspective.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sidenote: Evolution is not atheistic. http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA602.html

[Strife767]

Don't you know that RULES do not apply to the LeClairs. They can do whatever they want.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is why they're bad people for standing up for the biggest "rules" this country has--namely, the Constitution?

How ridiculous.

[Strife767]

Sorry , Paul, you're wrong again. But than again your opinions are Gospel (oh god I should not have said that) and everyone else is wrong.

Discipline is one thing, demanding someone be fired is another.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not when it's wholly deserved. Abusing one's position as a teacher to proselytize in public school (in history class no less), condemning students to hell, undermining the entire science curriculum, and then getting caught lying about it.

Firing is too good for him. How exactly can anyone justify these reprehensible actions by that teacher?

[Strife767]

And that's acceptable! This is a free country! You can do and say whatever you want! I choose to pray as well. Paul LaClair chooses to be an atheist I choose to be a christian. The majority of the people in Kearny also chosoe to be christians. The problem is when there is someone like the LaClairs who want to make people  think like him!

Just because you don't like the fact that separation of church and state demands that religion is kept out of public schools doesn't mean that religion's absence in public schools can be at all equated to "preaching atheism." Evolution is not atheistic (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA602.html).

That's the reason why he is been opening so many topics! He is accussing the teacher for doing something...and he is doing the same thing.

Can you substantiate this assertion? ...at all?

Paul this is a free country!

Rights end where they infringe on others' rights. The separation of church and state exists. Deal with it, or move to a theocratic country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest Guest]

And that's acceptable! This is a free country! You can do and say whatever you want! I choose to pray as well. Paul LaClair chooses to be an atheist I choose to be a christian. The majority of the people in Kearny also chosoe to be christians. The problem is when there is someone like the LaClairs who want to make people  think like him! That's the reason why he is been opening so many topics! He is accussing the teacher for doing something...and he is doing the same thing. Paul this is a free country! Your anger will not allow you to go too far. Relax and enoy your chirstmas!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your ignorance is astounding.

Yes this is a free country but it doesn't mean anyone can do whatever they want with no consequences. There's this little thing called the law in this country that every citizen must obey. The teacher broke the law in classroom. Plain and simple. Hence there must be consequences.

[Guest A. V. Blom]

And that's acceptable! This is a free country! You can do and say whatever you want! I choose to pray as well. Paul LaClair chooses to be an atheist I choose to be a christian. The majority of the people in Kearny also chosoe to be christians. The problem is when there is someone like the LaClairs who want to make people  think like him!

You mean to...convert them? You know, the thing Christians are REQUIRED to do by their own faith?

That's the reason why he is been opening so many topics! He is accussing the teacher for doing something...and he is doing the same thing. Paul this is a free country! Your anger will not allow you to go too far. Relax and enoy your chirstmas!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Paul has decided to discuss religion...which is ALSO his right. There is a difference between discussing religion on a message board (where people can excercise whatever right they want, provided the Admin allows them to), and preaching to a captive audience.

[Bryan]

Your ignorance is astounding.

Yes this is a free country but it doesn't mean anyone can do whatever they want with no consequences. There's this little thing called the law in this country that every citizen must obey. The teacher broke the law in classroom. Plain and simple. Hence there must be consequences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What law did the teacher break, please?

Be as specific as you are able.