Answers on Kearny HS teacher controversy

[Guest Hypocracy Police]

I tried really hard to read all 12 pages of this thread but, it is really hard to read the same thing over and over and over when it has already been replied to or answered several times.

Since I only got through the first 6 pages before my eyes started to unfocus, I apologise if anything I say here has been stated previously.

Some hypocracies of the people posting here:

If you are deeply offended by being secretly recorded by some one who is trying to collect evidence of a crime but, demand evidence (presumably recorded audio of some kind) of the meeting between Matt and Mr. P before you believe that Mr. P lied, the you are a hypocrite.

If you say that lawsuits and media attention would not occur if the teacher was talking about aethism, you are a liar. There are many teachers who have been sued for trying to push their non-religious beleifs on students. Here is just one example of where a teacher was sued and put in the media for forcing students say that theybelieve in evolution.

http://bhcsa.org/Essay-AcadedemicHypocrisyByEvolutionist.asp

If you say that Matt is causing all of this trouble because he wants attention, then you are saying that Mr. P has no control over his class and should not be teaching in he first place so your defence of him is more detremental than supporting.

If you are saying that Mr. P has the right to discuss his religious beleifs in class but, Matt does not have the right to question those beliefs or refuse to pledge to the flag, you are a hypocrite.

If you are saying that Matt took the wrong actions by making his beliefs on Mr. P's words public then, you post your opinion on the internet, you are a hypocrite.

If you say that Mr. P's discussion on religion was not part of the class but merely an information conversation, then it should not have been taking place in the class during school hours.

If you are saying that Mr. P was only having a information discussion on religion because the class books are not available, then you are also implying that he is incapable of teaching even the basics of his class without a text book after 15 years. If this is true, then he has no business teaching the class.

If you think that Matt is wong to question his teacher's opinions, then threaten or insult Paul or Matt for voicing thier opinions, you are really a hypocrite.

If you attack Paul for being an attorney and say that he is only filing a lawsuit for attantion, then you are moron. It is the job of attorney's job to protect the rights of their clients. I would find it surprising and wrong for an attorney to not want to file a lawsuit in order to protect the rights of a person because it would cause too much controversy. I would be even worse since the person whose rights are being violated is his own son.

If you are logging in to should one line slogans about how much you love god, america, etc., here are some slogans for you:

Freedom of religion includes freedon from religion.

An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine." George Washington

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion ..." from the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams, June 10, 1797.

"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?" James Madison, in "Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State." The U.S. Supreme Court, 1947

If you say that Paul (or I) am just trying to bury you in word because we having nothing to say, all I can say is, I read through 6 pages of your trash and you can't even get through one post of mine? Hypocrite!

[Guest looking to move to burbs avoidin]

I am looking to move back to the burbs soon, and after reading this board will do everything in my power to avoid your hateful little town. I imagine you are all as ugly on the outside as on the inside and that you have little joy, education, or wit. Surely you are all fat and move slowly around the aisles of Big Lots with some sort of tacky purse that you think makes you look rich because it says LV on it or you drive some sort of big machine that guzzles up your low income and my international reputation. I bet too, that you all have bad breath and haven't read a book besides "The Notebook" in twenty years and don't even know why that is sorta sad-funny.

From an outsider's perspective, you all seem as if you have hoofs instead of feet and peas instead of brains. You are the problem with this country, which my family has served abroad. You are all so freaking dumb that you resort to personal attacks a la Jerry Springer rather than actual discussion, so here I am stooping to your level. Clearly, you all skipped high school, much less college, and thus never learned how to discuss anything. That, my stupid druid friends in Kearny, is one of the points of school. Surely your kids will soon be home after one rough semester at Rowan or Montclair and will explain to you that they are dropping out because they don't fit in with the other kids, who were raised to discuss and think and be citizens of this country. And you will welcome them, to live in the filth of your basement or rec room and spoil in the same bland idiocy that you rot in.

[Guest Jodi]

Your son is very courageous, and should be commended.

[Guest Seth]

To Mr. LaClair and your family:

I understand that some people feel this situation has been blown out of proportion and that those of us who are not from your community should mind our own business; however, it seems to me that this situation is relevant enough to be considered the business of anyone in America.

I support you and your son in your effort to correct wrongs that were done to him, as I know from personal experience how your son probably feels that everyone at school is opposed to him for stating what he believes, in an environment where the majority opinion is continually stated and never challenged out of fear of that very opposition. I'm sorry that your family has to go through this, and I hope it all works out well for you in the end, but I really do applaud you for pressing for justice when nothing satisfactory was done to make amends.

To everyone else:

It may seem odd to other readers here that I am saying these things and at the same time consider myself a creationist as well as an evolutionist. I don't see why we can't accept the factual evidence of an old universe and evolution and at the same time believe that God is the one who caused the universe to be in a situation where these things would occur? The difference between the two is that science is -factual- and religion is faith-based. One part of my statement is undeniably true and the other part is a personal opinion which may or may not someday turn out to be true.

Public schools have the responsibility to teach facts and ideas that are based on facts, not dogmatic beliefs that are faith-based. It is the duty of parents to teach for or against faith-based systems; eventually a child will choose for himself regardless.

Good luck in your efforts to correct these problems, Mr. LaClair and Matthew. I know I would be offended if my son's Buddhist history teacher was irresponsible enough to allow himself to tangentially tell my son's class that they must all seek to become enlightened.

[Guest Guest]

I personally want to thank you and your son for doing the right thing, even in the light of all the darkness around you.

Hold strong and fast, and know that America supports you!

[Guest wan]

Paul,

I commend your son's actions.

Kids are supposed to start discussions in classrooms. They are supposed to think! To debate!

That's how we don't think the Earth is flat anymore! That's how we don't think the sun rotates around the Earth anymore. It's because of discussions and questioning of things that we don't think are right.

That teacher should be fired !

You have my full support!

[Guest wan]

Mr. LaClair,

I am following this story a bit.  I am curious as to what Mr. Paszkiewicz said in class that in your words were "false statements he had made in class, particularly those related to science." of which you have asked for an apology.  Also what have the students been "poisoned" with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wrong!

Atheists are not supposed to express their beliefs as well in the classroom.

Classrooms are supposed to "teach" and educate kids... not to indoctrinate about religion, politics, etc

[Guest wan]

I tried really hard to read all 12 pages of this thread but, it is really hard to read the same thing over and over and over when it has already been replied to or answered several times.

Since I only got through the first 6 pages before my eyes started to unfocus, I apologise if anything I say here has been stated previously.

Some hypocracies of the people posting here:

If you are deeply offended by being secretly recorded by some one who is trying to collect evidence of a crime but, demand evidence (presumably recorded audio of some kind) of the meeting between Matt and Mr. P before you believe that Mr. P lied, the you are a hypocrite.

If you say that lawsuits and media attention would not occur if the teacher was talking about aethism, you are a liar. There are many teachers who have been sued for trying to push their non-religious beleifs on students. Here is just one example of where a teacher was sued and put in the media for forcing students say that theybelieve in evolution.

http://bhcsa.org/Essay-AcadedemicHypocrisyByEvolutionist.asp

If you say that Matt is causing all of this trouble because he wants attention, then you are saying that Mr. P has no control over his class and should not be teaching in he first place so your defence of him is more detremental than supporting.

If you are saying that Mr. P has the right to discuss his religious beleifs in class but, Matt does not have the right to question those beliefs or refuse to pledge to the flag, you are a hypocrite.

If you are saying that Matt took the wrong actions by making his beliefs on Mr. P's words public then, you post your opinion on the internet, you are a hypocrite.

If you say that Mr. P's discussion on religion was not part of the class but merely an information conversation, then it should not have been taking place in the class during school hours.

If you are saying that Mr. P was only having a information discussion on religion because the class books are not available, then you are also implying that he is incapable of teaching even the basics of his class without a text book after 15 years. If this is true, then he has no business teaching the class.

If you think that Matt is wong to question his teacher's opinions, then threaten or insult Paul or Matt for voicing thier opinions, you are really a hypocrite.

If you attack Paul for being an attorney and say that he is only filing a lawsuit for attantion, then you are moron. It is the job of attorney's job to protect the rights of their clients. I would find it surprising and wrong for an attorney to not want to file a lawsuit in order to protect the rights of a person because it would cause too much controversy. I would be even worse since the person whose rights are being violated is his own son.

If you are logging in to should one line slogans about how much you love god, america, etc., here are some slogans for you:

Freedom of religion includes freedon from religion.

An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine." George Washington

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion ..." from the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams, June 10, 1797.

"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?"  James Madison, in "Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State."    The U.S. Supreme Court, 1947

If you say that Paul (or I) am just trying to bury you in word because we having nothing to say, all I can say is, I read through 6 pages of your trash and you can't even get through one post of mine? Hypocrite!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OUTSTANDING REPLY!!

[Guest Paul]

Paul,

I just wish to express how proud I would be if my son were half as brave and intelligint as Matthew. As for this post I am quoting I just want to say that it scares me to consider how threatened people become when someone begins to express their views if those views contradict their own prejudices. It seems to me that more people should be protesting the things that they don't believe in. What if Jesus himself had never stood up and protested against the injustices he saw all around him and spoke out for those without the voice to speak for themselves?

And I am so tired of people who have no understanding of the founding fathers beliefs stating that this country was founded on judeo-christian beliefs. The majority of this country's founders were actually deists, and Benjamin and Jefferson were actually considered atheists in their day (although the term has changed a lot since that time) and were far from being christians. The founding fathers did everything that they could to seperate the actual government of this country from the influence of religion.

And to close I just want to apologize if I have hijacked your thread and veered away form the matter at hand and I will just answer the person whose post I quote above by saying that far from being a distraction this event highlights the most important thing that should be taking place in our schools across this nation, namely the molding of young minds who are able to stand up courageously and eloquently defend their personal views in the face of a cowed and indoctrinated majority and speak truth to power.

Remember you are fighting for us all! Good luck!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To you and to the many who have spoken so eloquently since the story broke in the New York Times early this morning, we have never lost sight for a moment who and what we are fighting for: our people, our Constitution, our way of life and freedom for everyone, not just those in the majority. Debra and I are extremely proud of Matthew. I admire his courage, and can only hope to be more like him one day when I grow up. Thank you.

[Guest Nietzsche]

I just finished reading an article on this and I'm in full support of Matt's actions. Religious idealism is irrational and should not be taught in a public school. Judging by the reactions of other students and parents, sounds like this town is a bunch of obtuse rednecks.

[Guest Justin]

I've had a teacher who did nothing but preach christianity in the class room and force us to watch religious videos (in a geography class no less), and I wish I had done something about it then. This kid did the right thing and I hope the teacher loses his job. Anyone threatening Matt over this needs to be locked up in a camp. Stop the infection before it's too late.

[Guest wan]

To the LaClairs

I commend you both.

I really don't understand these attacks on you.

They say Matthew shouldn't discuss and debate in the classroom. But it is by discussing and arguing what we are told that we progress. That is why we don't think the Earth is flat and that the Sun circles the Earth anymore. That is what classrooms are for. Not just to feed info to students, but also to make them into a man that will *think* for himself.

They also say he shouldn't have taped the classroom. Why would it be illegal to tape what's said in a classroom? What would a teacher be afraid? Because he might say something inappropriate? Maybe like in this case?

I thank you both for giving me some hope. I hope that someday people will start thinking for themselves instead of thinking the way they were raised to think.

[Guest sharon ryan]

I am totally on the Mathew's side. If this teacher wants to be a preacher, let him get his own Church and do it there. Proseletizing does not belong in a public school classroom.

[Guest Glen]

As a proud son of New Jersey (who admittedly now lives in New York City and would never think of moving), I was always pleased that our little state seemed to stand for rational thought far removed from the zealots of the Bible Belt. That the people of Kearny have reacted so appallingly towards the one person with the courage and intellectual accumen to stand up for his rights (in fact, all of their rights) is very sad. I would recommend the excellent book "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris, and his follow-up "Letter To A Christian Nation" to anyone who seeks ammunition to defend Matt's position. Regardless, I hope Matt realizes that his time in high school will soon be over and I am sure he will find a top academic program that will embrace his rigorous, well-trained mind. Matt, you will definitely look back proudly on this incident one day, and once you leave those small-minded bigots behind you will realize that your understanding of free will will give you a lifetime of enjoyment that they can never conceive of. As a proud Atheist I (and many, many other people) stand by you in this struggle. You make me very proud to be an American. Thank you.

[Guest Glenn]

After watching the revealing and inspiring Q and A with Richard Dawkins and students from Liberty University on youtube I was amused by a posters comment praising Dawkins. I want to paraphrase it here.

"Thank God for Matthew LaClair!"

I hope that the prevalence of intelligent rebuttal of religious dogma on forums like youtube an myspace indicates a seachange in America's insistance on being ignorant.

Matthew has taught us a valuable lesson. The student becomes the teacher.

[Guest Guest]

Good job, Paul. Free thinking people are with you.

You have to be a little extreme of you want to fight the evil called radical Christianity.

[Guest Guest]

Oh wait? I'm still typing. nope no lightning hitting me yet. Not today, not yesterday, not tomorrow.

Teachers have no right preaching these bronze age myths in a history class. Way to go Matt, you have my full support.

[Guest Thank you]

Thank you Matt. You are in the right. I am a fairly orthodox Christian believer, but I am outraged by what your teacher did, and continues to do. I'm also shocked at the anti-lawyer bias evident on these pages. Paul's profession is just as honorable as any other.

[Guest Daniel]

I am appalled at the way the Kearny community is treating this young man. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Matthew is standing up for what's right, and it's very unfortunate to see the community flaming this boy and supporting a teacher who has been so blatantly abusing his position as teacher.

For shame on you Kearny NJ. You should be protecting your youth.

[William]

I am Paul LaClair, father of Matthew LaClair. I am opening this topic to invite all concerned, in whatever way they may be concerned, to ask questions and engage in a respectful and thoughtful discussion of this incident. I may post threads myself to initiate topics.

I am doing this because if people are going to discuss this, it should be discussed in a thoughtful and respectful way. There is no call for the vicious attacks that have been publicly posted against a young man whose actions were not motivated by self-interest, but by a passionate commitment to our Constitution, separation of church and state, the integrity and value of science, the quality of education and the rule of law. With all due respect to those who have presumed to know Matthew's motives --- who have not been the least bit respectful in some cases --- I am certain that I know him better than you do.

All appropriate and respectful questions will be answered. All personal attacks will be ignored.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must be very proud of your son. Congratulations on raising a son who respects the Constitution of the United States enough to stand up for it in this manner.

William, California

[John L]

Paul,

Your son Matthew is an intelligent, brave person and should be commended by all for his desire to uphold one of the prime tenets of the Constitution that our founding fathers so wisely created.

Bravo to Matthew and to yourself for raising a child capable of such critical thought.

"It behoves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others; or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Benjamin Rush, April 21, 1803

[Guest Guest]

Dear Mr. LaClair and Matthew,

Bravo to you both for standing up for the Constitution against the yahoos of Kearny. No teacher has the "right" to prounounce in the classroom that "if you reject the gift of salvation, then you know where you belong." This is totally out of line in a public school. If Mr. P wants to preach, let him teach in a parochial school.

[Guest Guest]

All he wanted was to get attention.  Come on all the students know that he just provokes these kind of discussions.  Matt should switch teachers and not complain about the questions that he asked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

would you say the same thing if the teacher was saying I believe in Muhammad?

I don't think so...

You'd be the first person on the bandwagon to get him fired and striped of his retirement.

hmm not too mention some jail time...

isn't it a crime not separating church and state?

COMMON JAIL TIME for the teacher YAY!

CHILDREN SHOULD QUESTION EVERYTHING!

it's part of learning

[Guest Guest]

Why should it be discussed in a thoughtful and respectful way? Did Matthew give Mr. P those considerations?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what? for breaking the law?

[Guest Paul]

Wrong!

Atheists are not supposed to express their beliefs as well in the classroom.

Classrooms are supposed to "teach" and educate kids... not to indoctrinate about religion, politics, etc

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He said that evolution is not scientific. The entire scientific community all over the world holds that it is. Modern medicine uses treatments that are derived from evolutionary theory, and they work as well for radical fundamentalists in any religion as anyone else. Biologists today believe that modern biology cannot even be understood without a grounding in evolution.

He said that the big bang posits that nothing exploded and became something. That is false. The theory holds that extremely dense matter exploded, not that nothing exploded. If he was going to criticize the theory --- which he had no business doing in a history class anyway --- he should at least state it correctly. He also said the big bang could not have happened because explosions do not create order, using as "proof" a comparison of the big bang to an exploding firecracker. The problem with that unscientific comparison is that firecrackers do not result in the formation of bodies large enough to have a gravitational pull.

Recordings and transcripts are available on line if you wish to learn more about what the teacher said. Just google "Matthew LaClair" or "David Paszkiewicz" and you'll get many links that will allow you to learn what was said. There is even a transcription or two.