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ACLU OUTRAGE


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Guest BushBacker

The "American Communist Liberation Union", otherwise known as the ACLU, has a new lawsuit. They are taking Arlington National Cemetery to court. They want the cemetery to remove the crosses from the graves of our veterans who died defending our country.

All radical left Kool-Aiders who support "separation of church and state" will stand up and cheer (Paul and Strife, are you listening ??), but the good news is there's a group of 30 lawyers who have come together to fight the ACLU in this lawsuit. The Patriots of this country have said , "we're pissed and we're not going to put up with this ACLU any more". Watch O'Reilly tuesday night for an update.

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Guest Paul
The "American Communist Liberation Union", otherwise known as the ACLU,    has a new lawsuit.  They are taking Arlington National Cemetery to court.  They want the cemetery to remove the crosses from the graves of our veterans who died defending  our country.

  All radical left Kool-Aiders who support "separation of church and state"  will stand up and cheer (Paul and Strife, are you listening ??),  but the good news is there's a group of 30 lawyers who have come together to fight the ACLU in this lawsuit. The Patriots of this country have said , "we're pissed and we're not going to put up with this ACLU any more".  Watch O'Reilly tuesday night for an update.

Stop hyperventilating long enough to think. Please point me to a cite (not Fox and certainly not O'Reilly) that gives a credible account of what is actually happening. Then after we have the information we can comment.

At first blush, I find it hard to believe that ACLU would challenge crosses on the graves of those whose families want them there. Is it possible that they are being placed on the graves on non-Christians who don't want them there? If so, why isn't the challenge valid?

Let's get the information first.

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Guest Paul
The "American Communist Liberation Union", otherwise known as the ACLU,    has a new lawsuit.  They are taking Arlington National Cemetery to court.  They want the cemetery to remove the crosses from the graves of our veterans who died defending  our country.

  All radical left Kool-Aiders who support "separation of church and state"  will stand up and cheer (Paul and Strife, are you listening ??),  but the good news is there's a group of 30 lawyers who have come together to fight the ACLU in this lawsuit. The Patriots of this country have said , "we're pissed and we're not going to put up with this ACLU any more".  Watch O'Reilly tuesday night for an update.

Exactly as I thought. The suit was filed by a Wiccan family that didn't want a cross on the grave. The ACLU is absolutely right and as usual the right doesn't care one bit about the facts. All those who want crosses on their graves, and their families, are perfectly free to have them. Do you have the character to apologize for your misleading and inflammatory remarks, "BushBacker?"

Of course you don't.

See below:

Veterans Win Right to Post Religious Symbol on Headstones (4/23/2007)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

CONTACT: media@aclu.org

WASHINGTON – Following separate lawsuits filed by the American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for Separation of Church and State, the Department of Veterans Affairs today agreed to allow family members to include a Wiccan symbol on the headstones of deceased veterans.

The ACLU has long argued that veterans and their families should be free to choose religious symbols on military headstones – whether Crosses, Stars of David, Pentacles, or other symbols – and that the government should not be permitted to restrict such religious expression in federal cemeteries.

“We are gratified that the government will finally allow military families to express their religious beliefs and honor their loved ones,” said Daniel Mach, Director of Litigation with the ACLU’s Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief, who represents families and churches in this case. “Veterans who have served their country honorably should not have to worry that their faith will be ignored after death.”

The settlement reached in the Americans United case included and resolved all claims made in the ACLU’s parallel litigation.

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The "American Communist Liberation Union", otherwise known as the ACLU,    has a new lawsuit.  They are taking Arlington National Cemetery to court.  They want the cemetery to remove the crosses from the graves of our veterans who died defending  our country.

   All radical left Kool-Aiders who support "separation of church and state"  will stand up and cheer (Paul and Strife, are you listening ??),  but the good news is there's a group of 30 lawyers who have come together to fight the ACLU in this lawsuit. The Patriots of this country have said , "we're pissed and we're not going to put up with this ACLU any more".  Watch O'Reilly tuesday night for an update.

That was a chain letter, you retard. It's a totally fabricated story.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/cemetery.asp

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/aclucross.html

http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file399_26244.pdf

Way to go, stupid. Guess you'll believe anything your bonehead buddies tell you, huh?

If you have even a shred of integrity, you will apologize for this ridiculous accusation.

...needless to say, I'm not expecting you to apologize. :lol:

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Guest bewildered
The "American Communist Liberation Union", otherwise known as the ACLU,    has a new lawsuit.  They are taking Arlington National Cemetery to court.  They want the cemetery to remove the crosses from the graves of our veterans who died defending  our country.

  All radical left Kool-Aiders who support "separation of church and state"  will stand up and cheer (Paul and Strife, are you listening ??),  but the good news is there's a group of 30 lawyers who have come together to fight the ACLU in this lawsuit. The Patriots of this country have said , "we're pissed and we're not going to put up with this ACLU any more".  Watch O'Reilly tuesday night for an update.

Where did you get this stupid idea? Can you direct me to any ACLU material that says that they want to remove the crosses? What is the number of the court case? The ACLU just fought to allow Wiccans to place their symbol on the graves of their deceased. Why would they turn around and want to remove the symbols? O'Reilly is wrong 99% of the time. Occasionally he will say something that is true.
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Guest Autonomous
The "American Communist Liberation Union", otherwise known as the ACLU,    has a new lawsuit.  They are taking Arlington National Cemetery to court.  They want the cemetery to remove the crosses from the graves of our veterans who died defending  our country.

  All radical left Kool-Aiders who support "separation of church and state"  will stand up and cheer (Paul and Strife, are you listening ??),  but the good news is there's a group of 30 lawyers who have come together to fight the ACLU in this lawsuit. The Patriots of this country have said , "we're pissed and we're not going to put up with this ACLU any more".  Watch O'Reilly tuesday night for an update.

It is a hoax. It comes around every few years.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/aclucross.html

http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file399_26244.pdf

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The "American Communist Liberation Union", otherwise known as the ACLU,    has a new lawsuit.  They are taking Arlington National Cemetery to court.  They want the cemetery to remove the crosses from the graves of our veterans who died defending  our country.

  All radical left Kool-Aiders who support "separation of church and state"  will stand up and cheer (Paul and Strife, are you listening ??),  but the good news is there's a group of 30 lawyers who have come together to fight the ACLU in this lawsuit. The Patriots of this country have said , "we're pissed and we're not going to put up with this ACLU any more".  Watch O'Reilly tuesday night for an update.

The item BushBacker has posted is an urban legend, promoted by a false chain letter than has been circulating in various forms, for several years. There are websites devoted to exploding these myths. Here is one related to the ACLU gravestone claim:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/aclucross.html

An ACLU press release on the same issue (in PDF format) may be found here:

http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file399_26244.pdf

A quote from this statement includes the following:

"The ACLU vigorously defends people’s freedom to choose their religion under the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Furthermore, the ACLU would defend thefirst amendment rights of all veteran Americans and service members to display the religious symbol of their choosing on their grave. Therefore, the vehement attacks on the ACLU claiming that gravestones and markers at federal cemeteries, including Arlington Cemetery, are in danger is patently false and misleading..."

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Guest Guest
The "American Communist Liberation Union", otherwise known as the ACLU,    has a new lawsuit.  They are taking Arlington National Cemetery to court.  They want the cemetery to remove the crosses from the graves of our veterans who died defending  our country.

  All radical left Kool-Aiders who support "separation of church and state"  will stand up and cheer (Paul and Strife, are you listening ??),  but the good news is there's a group of 30 lawyers who have come together to fight the ACLU in this lawsuit. The Patriots of this country have said , "we're pissed and we're not going to put up with this ACLU any more".  Watch O'Reilly tuesday night for an update.

The OUTRAGE is what a damn idiot you are!

The ACLU has NEVER opposed crosses on the graves of individuals, considering it a family decision.

Stumble back to your barstool and go back to sleep BushWanker.

Heaven forbid you ever allow any truth to interfere with your delusions.

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The "American Communist Liberation Union", otherwise known as the ACLU,    has a new lawsuit.  They are taking Arlington National Cemetery to court.  They want the cemetery to remove the crosses from the graves of our veterans who died defending  our country.

  All radical left Kool-Aiders who support "separation of church and state"  will stand up and cheer (Paul and Strife, are you listening ??),  but the good news is there's a group of 30 lawyers who have come together to fight the ACLU in this lawsuit. The Patriots of this country have said , "we're pissed and we're not going to put up with this ACLU any more".  Watch O'Reilly tuesday night for an update.

I doubt it. This has been tried in the past by atheists and they didn't get anywhere. The ACLU isn't going to bother with this.

Do you have a link to an ACLU web site or court site that lists the suit? Or are you just trolling for O'Reilly?

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Guest Paul
I doubt it. This has been tried in the past by atheists and they didn't get anywhere. The ACLU isn't going to bother with this.

Do you have a link to an ACLU web site or court site that lists the suit? Or are you just trolling for O'Reilly?

It isn't that the ACLU "isn't going to bother with this." The ACLU would be affirmatively and vigorously opposed to prohibiting families from marking a soldier's grave with a cross if that is what the family wanted to do. The proof is that they just stood up for the right of Wiccans to mark their graves as they choose. It's not a matter of indifference, choosing one's battles or having better or more important things to do; it's a matter of coming down on the right side of the issue, which the ACLU has done.

Bern, could you cite a source of information that atheists "tried this in the past." It doesn't make sense that they would do that, but if they did, I'd like to know about it.

Finally, the cries of outrage against BushWanker's vile campaign of misinformation are heartening. It's long since past time that the community and the nation stood up to these boneheads.

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Guest Paul
The "American Communist Liberation Union", otherwise known as the ACLU,    has a new lawsuit.  They are taking Arlington National Cemetery to court.  They want the cemetery to remove the crosses from the graves of our veterans who died defending  our country.

  All radical left Kool-Aiders who support "separation of church and state"  will stand up and cheer (Paul and Strife, are you listening ??),  but the good news is there's a group of 30 lawyers who have come together to fight the ACLU in this lawsuit. The Patriots of this country have said , "we're pissed and we're not going to put up with this ACLU any more".  Watch O'Reilly tuesday night for an update.

By the way, I don't need you to speak for me, especially when you don't have a clue about anything I stand for. Not to mention that you're wrong.

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Guest Senior Town Resident
I doubt it. This has been tried in the past by atheists and they didn't get anywhere. The ACLU isn't going to bother with this.

Do you have a link to an ACLU web site or court site that lists the suit? Or are you just trolling for O'Reilly?

I saw the story on the 6 pm news. They showed a few crosses on headstones that the ACLU was targeting. They also interviewed an attorney who said there were a group of 30 attorneys who were banding together and working pro bono to fight the ACLU on this issue. It is definitely a true story.

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Guest Senior Town Resident
Exactly as I thought. The suit was filed by a Wiccan family that didn't want a cross on the grave. The ACLU is absolutely right and as usual the right doesn't care one bit about the facts. All those who want crosses on their graves, and their families, are perfectly free to have them. Do you have the character to apologize for your misleading and inflammatory remarks, "BushBacker?"

Of course you don't.

See below:

Veterans Win Right to Post Religious Symbol on Headstones (4/23/2007)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

CONTACT: media@aclu.org

WASHINGTON – Following separate lawsuits filed by the American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for Separation of Church and State, the Department of Veterans Affairs today agreed to allow family members to include a Wiccan symbol on the headstones of deceased veterans.

The ACLU has long argued that veterans and their families should be free to choose religious symbols on military headstones – whether Crosses, Stars of David, Pentacles, or other symbols – and that the government should not be permitted to restrict such religious expression in federal cemeteries.

“We are gratified that the government will finally allow military families to express their religious beliefs and honor their loved ones,” said Daniel Mach, Director of Litigation with the ACLU’s Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief, who represents families and churches in this case. “Veterans who have served their country honorably should not have to worry that their faith will be ignored after death.”

The settlement reached in the Americans United case included and resolved all claims made in the ACLU’s parallel litigation.

That's not what I saw on the 6 pm news monday night (not a month ago). The story I saw referred to crosses on headstones that the ACLU was objecting to (the film showed large crosses in the cemetery).

Also, in the same story, an attorney was interviewed who stated that himself and 29 other attorneys were banding together pro bono to fight the ACLU on the issue.

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Guest Guest
I saw the story on the 6 pm news.  They showed a few crosses on headstones that the ACLU was targeting.  They also interviewed an attorney who said there were a group of 30 attorneys who were banding together and working pro bono to fight the ACLU on this issue.  It is definitely a true story.

6 p.m. news where? Fox? If so, the story is probably distorted.

ACLU wouldn't try to take crosses off headstones of people who wanted them. If you think that, then you don't understand what ACLU does.

The question isn't whether ACLU is trying to have some crosses removed from some headstones. The question is whether this is being done at the request of the next of kin for those who are buried there.

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I saw the story on the 6 pm news.  They showed a few crosses on headstones that the ACLU was targeting.  They also interviewed an attorney who said there were a group of 30 attorneys who were banding together and working pro bono to fight the ACLU on this issue.  It is definitely a true story.

You are definitely lying.

"The ACLU is not pursuing, nor has it ever pursued, the removal of religious symbols from personal gravestones. Personal gravestones are the choice of the family members, not the choice of the government. The ACLU celebrates this freedom to choose the religious symbol of your choice."

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Guest Guest
By the way, I don't need you to speak for me, especially when you don't have a clue about anything I stand for. Not to mention that you're wrong.

I guess that makes two of you who do not know anything about what you stand up for except making a lot of noise. And just because someone opposes you, in your eyes that makes him automatically wrong. Good case.

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Guest Paul
I guess that makes two of you who do not know anything about what you stand up for except making a lot of noise. And just because someone opposes you, in your eyes that makes him automatically wrong.  Good case.

No, what makes you wrong is that you're wrong. You thought I would support an effort to remove all the crosses from the graves at Arlington. You're wrong. I wouldn't support that, and neither does the ACLU. What I support, and so does the ACLU, is the freedom of each soldier's family to choose how the grave will be marked. What's wrong with that?

What is wrong with you right-wingers? You get caught in a blatant mis-statement and you don't have the decency to admit that you were wrong. Being wrong isn't the worst thing in the world. We're all wrong sometimes, but when you persist in being wrong even after it is pointed out to you, that makes it worse.

I'm asking a very serious question: What is wrong with you?

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That's not what I saw on the 6 pm news monday night (not a month ago). The story I saw referred to crosses on headstones that the ACLU was objecting to (the film showed large crosses in the cemetery).   

    Also, in the same story, an attorney was interviewed who stated that himself and 29 other attorneys were banding together pro bono to fight the ACLU on the issue.

Ok, then. So it's not the old chain letter, and not the Wiccan symbol thing.

Could you perhaps be referring to the story cited below (or some variant of it through a different source)?

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/166056.aspx

The timing is right. And it does talk about a group organizing to fight the ACLU. However, it says nothing to support BushBacker's claim that the ACLU trying to get crosses removed from graves. So, the claim remains unsubstantiated, but it's the closest fit I could find.

Really guys, if you're going to float such outlandish and nasty accusations, you really need to come up with a better citation than "the 6 pm news monday night". Something that can be readily verified. In the absence of such, a retraction is in order.

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Ok, then. So it's not the old chain letter, and not the Wiccan symbol thing.

Could you perhaps be referring to the story cited below (or some variant of it through a different source)?

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/166056.aspx

The timing is right. And it does talk about a group organizing to fight the ACLU. However, it says nothing to support BushBacker's claim that the ACLU trying to get crosses removed from graves. So, the claim remains unsubstantiated, but it's the closest fit I could find.

Really guys, if you're going to float such outlandish and nasty accusations, you really need to come up with a better citation than "the 6 pm news monday night". Something that can be readily verified. In the absence of such, a retraction is in order.

The original post mentioned the Arlington Cemetery, which is the source of the chain letter thing, so at best, another 'issue' (a real one this time) was introduced mid-thread. The above story is certainly not tied to the original post.

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Guest Guest
That was a chain letter, you retard. It's a totally fabricated story.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/cemetery.asp

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/aclucross.html

http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file399_26244.pdf

Way to go, stupid. Guess you'll believe anything your bonehead buddies tell you, huh?

If you have even a shred of integrity, you will apologize for this ridiculous accusation.

...needless to say, I'm not expecting you to apologize. B)

Are you talking to BushBacker or Paul who actually addressed the press release?

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest a proud american
The item BushBacker has posted is an urban legend, promoted by a false chain letter than has been circulating in various forms, for several years.  There are websites devoted to exploding these myths.  Here is one related to the ACLU gravestone claim:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/aclucross.html

An ACLU press release on the same issue (in PDF format) may be found here:

http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file399_26244.pdf

A quote from this statement includes the following:

"The ACLU vigorously defends people’s freedom to choose their religion under the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.  Furthermore, the ACLU would defend thefirst amendment rights of all veteran Americans and service members to display the religious symbol of their choosing on their grave.  Therefore, the vehement attacks on the ACLU claiming that gravestones and markers at federal cemeteries, including Arlington Cemetery, are in danger is patently false and misleading..."

No it must be true. BushBacker said O'Reilly was going to talk about it. We all know how well he does investigative journalism. That is when he's not getting tossed out of the Mets locker room.

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Guest 2smart4u
No it must be true. BushBacker said O'Reilly was going to talk about it. We all know how well he does investigative journalism. That is when he's not getting tossed out of the Mets locker room.

You must have been in a Kool-Aid coma, this thread ended 3 weeks ago. Glad to see you're awake.

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You must have been in a Kool-Aid coma, this thread ended 3 weeks ago.  Glad to see you're awake.

Yes indeed, this discussion did go silent some time ago. But since it's now well past the time when O'Reilly was supposed to have talked about it, this seems like a good time to ask: Did O'Reilly ever talk about it? Anyone have a link to a transcript or video?

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