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Guest Paul

Attempted intimidation

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What it is about is ethics.  It is about Paul LaClair standing in front of the community and shouting more than once that his rights have been violated for a teacher discussing religion in class

Actually, it was Matthew's rights, as well as the rights of his classmates (at least--it seems quite apparent that this preaching has been Paszkiewicz's typical behavior for years and years) that were violated.

Matthew and Paul are absolutely correct that their rights were violated. What's unethical about that?

and taking scholarship from an Atheist Association hiding behind the name of Thomas Jefferson and sending his other child to a religious university that has given his family scholarship funds.

I for the life of me cannot see how that is not ethical?

Neither can I. Of course, I'm sure you meant to say the exact opposite. But I ask you--what's unethical about any of what you said?

And you wish me to call this family patriotic?

Anyone who knows what patriotism is would.

A parent does foster and guide the child in these cases and it seems irresponsible how if the family's beliefs are that strong that they would let that child attend.

Whatever the family's beliefs or the strength of their convictions in them are completely irrelevant. Paszkiewicz violated their rights, and that's the bottom line. It is to be not only expected, but _demanded_, that public schools are kept religiously neutral.

Perhaps there are other ulterior motives that are not being shared?

Lots of people accuse them of that, but not one of them has been able to back anything up. Their driving motive is obviously defending the separation of church and state laid out in the Constitution.

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Guest Paul
What it is about is ethics.  It is about Paul LaClair standing in front of the community and shouting more than once that his rights have been violated for a teacher discussing religion in class and taking scholarship from an Atheist Association hiding behind the name of Thomas Jefferson and sending his other child to a religious university that has given his family scholarship funds.

I for the life of me cannot see how that is not ethical?  And you wish me to call this family patriotic? A parent does foster and guide the child in these cases and it seems irresponsible how if the family's beliefs are that strong that they would let that child attend.  Perhaps there are other ulterior motives that are not being shared?

If you would have the integrity to reveal who you are, I'm sure we could arrange a public meeting so Matthew could explain it to you. He'd be more than up to the task. You might not understand what you were being told, but any level-headed, fair-minded person would.

So here's the deal: Reveal your identity, own up to whatever posts you've made, and let's have a face-to-face meeting. Put your integrity where your mouth is.

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What it is about is ethics.  It is about Paul LaClair standing in front of the community and shouting more than once that his rights have been violated for a teacher discussing religion in class and taking scholarship from an Atheist Association hiding behind the name of Thomas Jefferson and sending his other child to a religious university that has given his family scholarship funds.

I for the life of me cannot see how that is not ethical?  And you wish me to call this family patriotic? A parent does foster and guide the child in these cases and it seems irresponsible how if the family's beliefs are that strong that they would let that child attend.  Perhaps there are other ulterior motives that are not being shared?

Guest, I never suggested you call the family patriotic or unpatriotic. I never suggested that it was ethical or not ethical. I apologize if you thought that was what I was suggesting. I was simply trying to point out that this issue is about an issue in public school classroom with a particular person, not about religion in general. I was also trying to illustrate that a sibling's college decision has no bearing on this thread.

What if the sibling fought to attend this college against the parent's wishes? What if the sibling was a devout Methodist and only applied to UMC schools? What if the family suggested the sibling attend this specific college because of programs of study offered? I raise these questions since I went through a similar process when I choose to attend a Jesuit affiliated college for its science and athletic programs. I am not saying that the sibling went through those actions, but why attack a subject with no background? Why not ask the question instead of attack?

It appears that many of the threads are accusations, finger pointing and quotes, which is why I have not posted much. I believe that all sides have participated in fueling the fire creating the heated discussions on the board today. The one thing that does bother me about this particular thread is that it appears you are involving a sibling/college student who has not weighed in on this issue at all. We do not know how the sibling ended up attending a religiously oriented school nor what the sibling’s personal beliefs are, yet we have not problem throwing them into the mix. If the question is to the parents, then ask it and I am sure that a response will be provided.

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Guest Paul
So if junior decides to burn the American flag on the steps of Kearny High, we should also salute him because its our patriotic dute?  There comes a point where people need to be responsible for their actions. There comes a point where ethics should be brought to the forefront.  Secret recordings to me does not seem ethical. Not confronting the teacher when the occurance occured does not seem ethical. Please stop calling him a patriot. You are tarnishing the name with people of this country who really cared about it.  I do not need this boy defending my rights as you try to spin it.

Burning a flag on the steps of Kearny High would probably violate a fire ordinance, and while citizens have the right to burn the flag, neither of us has ever done it and does not intend to do it. But if a country removes the right to do it, that country is headed toward tyranny.

The reason the recordings were ethical is same reason that undercover operations are ethical: systematic improper behavior called for action to stop it. This was the most effective (and the only) way to do it, it didn't violate any substantial rights, and therefore it was ethical. You just don't like the outcome.

Confronting the teacher would not have stopped the behavior. The teacher's superiors needed to know, and for that the recordings were necessary.

Thousands of people are calling Matthew patriot, including many Christians. Yet again, you just don't like the outcome. Why don't try listening for a change? If you think Matthew doesn't care about his country, then you don't know much about him.

Your arguments are typical of people who throw away their freedoms because they do not understand that those freedoms depend on the integrity of a legal system. In our country, that includes separation of church and state. You don't get why that's important. Matthew does. If you understood why it matters, you would probably hold a different view.

And his name is not junior. Do you really think that kind of snottiness serves your cause? Most people see right through it, and recognize it for what it is: juvenile snottiness.

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Guest Paul
And the discussion goes on and on. So only Paul LaClair can decide what is inside or outside the discussion of the issues here?  KOTW is an open forum for discussions on the topics on the town and because its not an attack by you on Mr. P, that does not mean it cannot be discussed here.  I do love how you try to manipulate each person's post here. This is not your courtroom. It's a public forum.

You misunderstand my point. You have the right to say just about any idiotic thing you care to say --- and you're exercising it amply. I take it your definition of "manipulate" is saying something you don't agree with.

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Guest Guest
And the discussion goes on and on. So only Paul LaClair can decide what is inside or outside the discussion of the issues here?  KOTW is an open forum for discussions on the topics on the town and because its not an attack by you on Mr. P, that does not mean it cannot be discussed here.  I do love how you try to manipulate each person's post here. This is not your courtroom. It's a public forum.

So you support expressing Christianity as saying to a captive audience of minors "You belong in Hell?"

Or maybe support a Jewish teacher saying "Jesus was not the Messiah?"

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Guest Guest
Yes it is, if people are doing it for the right reasons, and if it's not all they're doing to support and honor their country, and participate in our democracy. However, not standing for the pledge is also part of supporting and honoring this country and its people if one is doing it to make the point that standing and reciting a pledge is not enough. That is the point Matthew is making, and it is an expression of patriotism. He's asking people to think instead of merely recite. In a democracy, thinking, and then acting on that thinking, is a patriotic act.

Christianity has similar tenets. You're not Christian just by talking the talk, nor is it something that can be forced or done by rote.

Jesus' Sermon on the Mount speaks of doing Christian acts without any thought of the attention it brings to you.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen."

Standing up and reciting a pledge by rote because you feel compelled by peer pressure doesn't serve your country one iota. Of course, a pledge *can* be an act of solidarity like in a support group, but it can also be a blunt tool to force conformity or act as Patriotic Prozac so you can feel Patriotic without actually doing anything for your country.

I wonder how people define "liberty" when they attack Matthew?

It's like when people support putting icons of the Ten Commandments everywhere but not being able to list them. It's just religious Bondo they use to fill in their God-shaped holes.

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Guest Guest
"If you look honestly at history, you will see that he is absolutely right to do it. A nation that confuses reciting a pledge with the real work of citizenship --- reading a newspaper, being aware of the issues, voting, conserving energy when we're at war for oil..." -Paul

After that war for oil crack it is now confirmed to me what your agenda is....

I wish they still had the draft....

Yeah, Paul is obviously fronting an underground anti-oil conspiracy.

(Don't worry about the draft. Matthew could get a college deferment.)

You must luuuuv how our taxes and troops are giving Halliburton the means to send jobs and economic development to Dubai.

I salute you, Sir!

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Guest Guest
Shame how the LaClairs can criticize one their children’s teacher and making a mock of the town they live in for mentioning religion in class, but somehow its ok for their other child takes the scholarship money (nearly a full scholarship) for attending a college in New Jersey whose affiliation is with the United Methodist Church.

Shame on the LaClairs.

It's just as well. They teach Evolution there, and the Big Bang is not in any history curriculum. *gasp*

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Guest Guest
Ohh don't let the word get out that UMC stands for United Methodist University and absolutely NOT, I just called the university and DREW did not END its affiliation with them.  Because if it ever did get out would Matthew lose his schlarship with the Athiest Organization?  Does that mean of you say the words United Methodist Church you will burn in hell ?  You couldn't even type the words United Methodist Church but had to write UMC.  How completely childish and unopenminded you are.

Jesus, i-i-is that you?

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As the only self-professed practicing Methodist on the board, I can tell you that those universities affiliated with my denomination have no problem matriculating and graduating good students from a wide variety of religious backgrounds. They needn't be Methodists or even Christians. So I'm not sure why Drew's choice of college is relevent here.

I can also say that most members of my denomination would have a real problem with Mr. P's proselytizing in class, and not just because the theology he was teaching is not the same as ours. If he'd been a good Methodist preacher riffing on our own party line, we would still think his behavior was grossly inappropriate in a public school classroom. We believe in and uphold the principle of separation of church and state and regard his behavior as an unconstitutional violation of that principle. We believe our young people should be taught theology in our homes and churches, not at school.

Leigh Williams

Austin, Texas

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Guest Guest
Shame how the LaClairs can criticize one their children’s teacher and making a mock of the town they live in for mentioning religion in class, but somehow its ok for their other child takes the scholarship money (nearly a full scholarship) for attending a college in New Jersey whose affiliation is with the United Methodist Church.

Shame on the LaClairs.

Shame on how Mr. P can criticize Public schools and make a mockery of Evolution and the Big Bang for going against his religion, but somehow it's ok for him to take a salary (nearly his full income) for teaching in Public school.

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Guest Guest
Standing for the pledge is part of supporting and honoring this country and its people.

I never realized we're all unsupportive of the country whenever we're not at school or a sporting event.

We should all buy flags for our homes and take the pledge with our families every morning. YOur country needs us!

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Guest Guest
As the only self-professed practicing Methodist on the board, I can tell you that those universities affiliated with my denomination have no problem matriculating and graduating good students from a wide variety of religious backgrounds.  They needn't be Methodists or even Christians.  So I'm not sure why Drew's choice of college is relevent here.

I can also say that most members of my denomination would have a real problem with Mr. P's proselytizing in class, and not just because the theology he was teaching is not the same as ours.  If he'd been a good Methodist preacher riffing on our own party line, we would still think his behavior was grossly inappropriate in a public school classroom.  We believe in and uphold the principle of separation of church and state and regard his behavior as an unconstitutional violation of that principle.  We believe our young people should be taught theology in our homes and churches, not at school.

Leigh Williams

Austin, Texas

"Drew's choice of college", what the hell are you babbling about?

HOOOOOWWWWDY!!! :lol:

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Guest Guest
Shame on how Mr. P can criticize Public schools and make a mockery of Evolution and the Big Bang for going against his religion, but somehow it's ok for him to take a salary (nearly his full income) for teaching in Public school.

Oh thank you Paul for posting. As you yourself have said Paul , Mr. P has done many good things for so many people. Same the same cannot be said about you, Paul.

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Standing up for our freedoms isn't a good thing that benefits many people?

For some. Others have servile mentality. They like being told what to do and above all they love it when society stagnates into a familiar comfortable secure groove.

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Guest Patriot
Standing up for our freedoms isn't a good thing that benefits many people?

I love the way Strife and Calybos jump in to defend their hero Paul. ( Shows the exciting life they have, LOL).

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Guest Guest
...if you're talking about my forum signature...

B):D:D :D

P.S. There's no "e" at the end of "ignoramus," ignoramus. :P

Ignoramuse! I love it. We have the Art Muse and the Poetry Muse and now the Idiot's Muse. The Ignoramuse.

Never to be confused with the Canadian Muse.

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Guest Kearny
Shame on how Mr. P can criticize Public schools and make a mockery of Evolution and the Big Bang for going against his religion, but somehow it's ok for him to take a salary (nearly his full income) for teaching in Public school.

If you are willing to engage in conspiracy with corrupt embezzeling business owners, commit fraud and tell harassing twisted false stories about innocent Kearny residents then your hired regardless of your religion.

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I love the way Strife and Calybos jump in to defend their hero Paul. ( Shows the exciting life they have, LOL).

Yes, that what real Patriots do. They support freedom.

Not like you who sits at home and plays with *** ***** **** *** **** *** ****** *** ****.

KOTW Note: The above post was edited for content.

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