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Guest Howard

Police And Fire Contracts

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Guest Howard

In July the Firefighters will be starting five (5) years without a contract.

Thats one...two...three....four....five.....for the record.

The Police will be close to One (1) year without a contract.

Whats wrong with this town?

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Guest Guest

I don't get it, no one can work without a contract. I don't have a contract and I still show up for work everyday and do my best.

So whats the big deal about a contract anyway? If you do your job well there shouldn't be a problem.

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Guest StudiesandObservations
I don't get it, no one can work without a contract. I don't have a contract and I still show up for work everyday and do my best.

So whats the big deal about a contract anyway? If you do your job well there shouldn't be a problem.

Until a new contract is settled, the workers operate under the provisions of the old contract, without any salary or benefit increases. The inherent protections are kept, the problem is, especially if it drags on for years, your workers will be (and we'll use the FD officers for example, since they continually bombard us) earning 1999 wages, but paying the current 2004 market prices for things.

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Guest Guest
I don't get it, no one can work without a contract.  I don't have a contract and I still show up for work everyday and do my best.

So whats the big deal about a contract anyway?  If you do your job well there shouldn't be a problem.

Until a new contract is settled, the workers operate under the provisions of the old contract, without any salary or benefit increases. The inherent protections are kept, the problem is, especially if it drags on for years, your workers will be (and we'll use the FD officers for example, since they continually bombard us) earning 1999 wages, but paying the current 2004 market prices for things.

A good portion of the civilian job market is still earning "1999 wages" and "LOSING" benefits left and right, without the benefit of union protection. You are looking in the wrong place for sympathy.

But anyway, I thought the firefighters contract was settled? Unless you are talking about the Officers contract. If so, please at least get your facts straight.

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Guest Guest

If a Kearny Police Officer or Firefighter or teacher etc. feels that they are worth more than they are earning in their current position, or past wage, and feel they could market their particular skill set somewhere else, then hey, it's a free market - go ahead and try. I don't think it's as much an issue about fighting inflation, as it is that these days everyone just wants to get rich quick, and human nature often makes us feel (to ourselves) that we are worth much more than our true book value. For example, I don't think that Kearny PE teachers should be earning $80,000 a year for what amounts to about an 1100 hour work year (most people work 2000+ hours). If it was your money in question, and you were the employer, would you pay someone $75/hr to be a glorified babysitter? Oh wait, if you're a taxpayer, it is your money, and you are the employer.

Bottom line is, most of these people are riding on the backs of a few good, deserving, hard working individuals who continually earn their paycheck. Most of these people should go home every single day and thank God that they even have a job, because in the real world, their skill set couldn't earn them half as much as they are able to 'collect' from the people of Kearny.

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Guest Loki
I don't get it, no one can work without a contract.  I don't have a contract and I still show up for work everyday and do my best.

So whats the big deal about a contract anyway?  If you do your job well there shouldn't be a problem.

Until a new contract is settled, the workers operate under the provisions of the old contract, without any salary or benefit increases. The inherent protections are kept, the problem is, especially if it drags on for years, your workers will be (and we'll use the FD officers for example, since they continually bombard us) earning 1999 wages, but paying the current 2004 market prices for things.

A good portion of the civilian job market is still earning "1999 wages" and "LOSING" benefits left and right, without the benefit of union protection. You are looking in the wrong place for sympathy.

But anyway, I thought the firefighters contract was settled? Unless you are talking about the Officers contract. If so, please at least get your facts straight.

Perhaps the place you work has merit pay, and you haven't EARNED a raise.

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Guest StudiesandObservations
I don't get it, no one can work without a contract.  I don't have a contract and I still show up for work everyday and do my best.

So whats the big deal about a contract anyway?  If you do your job well there shouldn't be a problem.

Until a new contract is settled, the workers operate under the provisions of the old contract, without any salary or benefit increases. The inherent protections are kept, the problem is, especially if it drags on for years, your workers will be (and we'll use the FD officers for example, since they continually bombard us) earning 1999 wages, but paying the current 2004 market prices for things.

A good portion of the civilian job market is still earning "1999 wages" and "LOSING" benefits left and right, without the benefit of union protection. You are looking in the wrong place for sympathy.

But anyway, I thought the firefighters contract was settled? Unless you are talking about the Officers contract. If so, please at least get your facts straight.

Read it again, I DID specify the Fd OFFICERS. That said, Someone asked a questiuon about how the contract process works after the current contract expires. Question asked..Answer provided. It wasn't an editorial, or an opinion Merely an example. Simple isnt it???

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Guest Guest

:angry: WHAH whah whah,

At least we know that if there is ever a fire during a water shortage, the KFD could put it iut with their tears. :angry:

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Guest Laughing FF
:blink: WHAH whah whah,

At least we know that if there is ever a fire during a water shortage, the KFD could put it iut with their tears. :blink:

:lol: I'm a firefighter and that was really Funny! :lol:

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Guest Not today
If a Kearny Police Officer or Firefighter or teacher etc. feels that they are worth more than they are earning in their current position, or past wage, and feel they could market their particular skill set somewhere else, then hey, it's a free market - go ahead and try. I don't think it's as much an issue about fighting inflation, as it is that these days everyone just wants to get rich quick, and human nature often makes us feel (to ourselves) that we are worth much more than our true book value. For example, I don't think that Kearny PE teachers should be earning $80,000 a year for what amounts to about an 1100 hour work year (most people work 2000+ hours). If it was your money in question, and you were the employer, would you pay someone $75/hr to be a glorified babysitter? Oh wait, if you're a taxpayer, it is your money, and you are the employer.

Bottom line is, most of these people are riding on the backs of a few good, deserving, hard working individuals who continually earn their paycheck. Most of these people should go home every single day and thank God that they even have a job, because in the real world, their skill set couldn't earn them half as much as they are able to 'collect' from the people of Kearny.

That's not quite possible. You see, firefighters and police officers must test to get their jobs. Even though it's not a hard test, not everyone scores well. And once you get on a towns fire or police department, you just can't go to another one at a whim. You're kind of stuck for life with the town you start out with. You can move, but its not as easy as you would think. So they cannot market themselves. Or do well and earn merit increases. They must negotiate pay raises and benefits from the town they work for. And if these raises don't match the cost of living increases, well, you are in a tight spot. Everyone else I am sure is in the same boat,kinda, but I ask you, when was your last raise? And do you get them on a regular basis, no matter how small. Have you gotten a raise in the last five years? Our town asks for and expects a lot out of our cops and firemen, and rightfully so. And I know what your're gonna say, they don't go to fires every day or stare down the barrel of a gun often. But when they do, they risk their lives for you and me, perfect strangers. How often do you risk your life at your job? And yes, they knew what the job was when they took it....and they still took it. So stop and think why they are upset at not getting a regular pay increase. I think you would be too, and if you're not, you're nuts.

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I believe the major concern about not having a contract for the fire officers is a taxpayor concern. The question we should be asking is....Has the town has been setting aside the funds to pay on contracts as they sit waiting to be settled?

Not only fire, but now we have police also.....

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Guest Guest
...and yes, they knew what the job was when they took it....and they still took it.

I guess that's really the bottom line. If I am going to employ someone to do something for me, I have to first decide what it is that I need accomplished. Then I have to determine how much I'm willing to pay someone else to complete that task on my behalf. I then let perspective employees know these two things and see if anyone is interested. As an employer, I am in charge, and I make these kind of decisions - not the employee. If they are unsatisfied with what has been offered, then they have only one real choice, move along - and hopefully they will find what they are looking for elsewhere. This is called capitalism and the free market and it happens everyday, everywhere in this country. It's one of the things that makes this country so great in my opinion.

I know it gives people a warm gooey feeling to thing about how incredibly courageous and noble police and firefighters are, and how they are deserving of the very best life has to offer because they put their lives on the line... yadda yadda... but the truth of the matter is, that there are plenty of people in the world, and even in this town that are perfectly content to pump gas or fill potholes for 40 or 50 hours a week to make a living. They do this week in and week out, and are paid whatever their employer feels the job deserves. If a gas station attendant got fussy with their employer because they started to think they deserved better pay (because of how well they pump gas), he/she would have two options, fulfill the employees wishes or let them go and hire the next person who is just happy to have job at all. The point that I'm trying to make here, is that maybe they are already being paid what they deserve. Maybe, just maybe they are being paid MORE than they deserve for the incredibly hard hard work they do.

When I refer to them marketing their skills, I'm not referring to their skills as public service people and the ability to switch town departments, I'm talking about their real, marketable, employable skill sets. You know, something that they can do to make money for someone else that warrants them being paid. If you think about it, most of these people have barely completed high school. Think about how you treat the 18 year old kid (who just barely completed high school) who comes knocking on your door for a job. Now realize that most of these people are basically just like that kid, only they've also had 10 or 15 years to forget everything they managed to scrape from their childhood schooling.

I'm sick to death of all these public employees whining and whining about the raw deal they've gotten. Like I said before, if you really think you're worth so much, try your hand at the real world, where there ARE punch cards, and palm scanning, and minimum wage, and sometimes God forbid, people work without benefits and pensions and silver platters. If you hate your job, because you're not respected enough, or you don't have a cool enough title, or you don't make enough money or have a contract, or because someone asked you to do something that's not in your job title or someone got a little cocky with you - THEN QUIT. It's that simple, just walk away, stop trying to make people think they owe you anything. They don't owe you anything - at all... really.

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Guest Guest
If you hate your job, because you're not respected enough, or you don't have a cool enough title, or you don't make enough money or have a contract, or because someone asked you to do something that's not in your job title or someone got a little cocky with you - THEN QUIT. It's that simple, just walk away, stop trying to make people think they owe you anything. They don't owe you anything - at all... really.

Let's just hope the police and firefighters don't all take your advice at the same time.

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Guest Guest

Why not, maybe then I'd finally be able to park in front of my own house on a Tuesday. :angry:

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Guest Guest
Why not, maybe then I'd finally be able to park in front of my own house on a Tuesday. :angry:

So then you can complain that your street isn't clean.

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Guest Not Today
...and yes, they knew what the job was when they took it....and they still took it.

I guess that's really the bottom line. If I am going to employ someone to do something for me, I have to first decide what it is that I need accomplished. Then I have to determine how much I'm willing to pay someone else to complete that task on my behalf. I then let perspective employees know these two things and see if anyone is interested. As an employer, I am in charge, and I make these kind of decisions - not the employee. If they are unsatisfied with what has been offered, then they have only one real choice, move along - and hopefully they will find what they are looking for elsewhere. This is called capitalism and the free market and it happens everyday, everywhere in this country. It's one of the things that makes this country so great in my opinion.

I know it gives people a warm gooey feeling to thing about how incredibly courageous and noble police and firefighters are, and how they are deserving of the very best life has to offer because they put their lives on the line... yadda yadda... but the truth of the matter is, that there are plenty of people in the world, and even in this town that are perfectly content to pump gas or fill potholes for 40 or 50 hours a week to make a living. They do this week in and week out, and are paid whatever their employer feels the job deserves. If a gas station attendant got fussy with their employer because they started to think they deserved better pay (because of how well they pump gas), he/she would have two options, fulfill the employees wishes or let them go and hire the next person who is just happy to have job at all. The point that I'm trying to make here, is that maybe they are already being paid what they deserve. Maybe, just maybe they are being paid MORE than they deserve for the incredibly hard hard work they do.

When I refer to them marketing their skills, I'm not referring to their skills as public service people and the ability to switch town departments, I'm talking about their real, marketable, employable skill sets. You know, something that they can do to make money for someone else that warrants them being paid. If you think about it, most of these people have barely completed high school. Think about how you treat the 18 year old kid (who just barely completed high school) who comes knocking on your door for a job. Now realize that most of these people are basically just like that kid, only they've also had 10 or 15 years to forget everything they managed to scrape from their childhood schooling.

I'm sick to death of all these public employees whining and whining about the raw deal they've gotten. Like I said before, if you really think you're worth so much, try your hand at the real world, where there ARE punch cards, and palm scanning, and minimum wage, and sometimes God forbid, people work without benefits and pensions and silver platters. If you hate your job, because you're not respected enough, or you don't have a cool enough title, or you don't make enough money or have a contract, or because someone asked you to do something that's not in your job title or someone got a little cocky with you - THEN QUIT. It's that simple, just walk away, stop trying to make people think they owe you anything. They don't owe you anything - at all... really.

You must be a politician, you didn't answer one question I asked. Just more dribble. You just don't get it. No matter what you think, firemen and cops are firemen and cops. And you probably can't figure that one out either. They don't think anyone owes them anything. Like I asked you...when was your last raise? These men and women do their jobs because they want to. A lot of them have college degrees, yet they chose to serve the public. Some because it runs in the family...some are 3rd and 4th generation cops or firefighters. Some because they wanted to help their fellow man. And yes, some because it was a decent paying job with good benifits. So don't belittle them, if you can't appreciate what they do, you must not understand why they do it. They won't quit, because they are cops and firemen. They will still run into burning buildings and chase bad guys down dark alleys, because they are cops and firemen. They are cops and firemen, so they will stick it out, good or bad, and do what cops and firemen do. I don't expect you to understand this, or respect it, you words lead me to think this way. Who wouldn't complain about not grtting a raise for five years. And if all this complaining really bothers you this much, gee, I'm sorry. I'm sorry it bothers you. Really I am. Maybe you should quit your complaining, like you want the cops and firemen to quit their jobs and look elsewhere. One last thing...what do you do for a living?

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Guest Guest
They don't think anyone owes them anything.

But apparently you think I owe you something (think again)... sounds like you're used to getting your way - must be nice.

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Guest Guest

5 years without a contract is insane. I doubt the town saves us money by prolonging the negotiations. That will be some retro paycheck! :lol:

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Guest Guest
5 years without a contract is insane. I doubt the town saves us money by prolonging the negotiations. That will be some retro paycheck! :lol:

They should strike.

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Guest Bob Cratchett
But apparently you think I owe you something (think again)... sounds like you're used to getting your way - must be nice.

I can't speak for the cops, but how about a work environment where the Chief works with his department for the benefit of the people we serve. Beyond that, I am owed nothing. But, don't forget to pick up your social security check when the time comes, as I am SURE that someone else paid for that.

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Guest Not Today
They don't think anyone owes them anything.

But apparently you think I owe you something (think again)... sounds like you're used to getting your way - must be nice.

Nope, you don't seem to have anything I want or need. And I never get my way. And my world is not a nice one. How are things in your world?

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Guest Guest
Mr Mayor how about a contract for the fire dept

I guess the mayor has more important things to do than bow to the will of the fire and police departments. I guess you all don't realize he doesn't work for you, in fact it's quite the other way around.

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Guest Guest

I don't know how the teachers got in this - they've got a contract. But as long as they've been brought in, yes most teachers have marketable skills outside of the classroom - we use them at our second jobs to pay for our kid's college tuitions, mortgages, etc. And some of the second jobs we have can be done by anyone - even you - but the job we do in the classroom requires much more than a marketable skill. It requires one's ability to act as a glorified babysitter, yes, but also as a surrogate mother/father, psychologist, social worker, Miss Manners, Dear Abby, and teacher. It requires love and dedication to all children. Unfortunately, those skills do not show up on a spreadsheet for many years and by then, people like you have lost count. Who prepared you with the marketable skill with which you earn your money?

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