The story doesn't make sense.

[Guest Guest]

Re #175: You're still ignoring the subject. You will do anything to avoid talking honestly about the religion you claim to believe in, which only proves, yet again:

You know it's a myth.

[Guest Guest]

Fascinating, watching the Christian apologists put this on everyone but themselves. They absolutely refuse to talk about it, and are angry that it's being talked about, so they blame the people who keep trying to talk about it. It's a just a variation on "kill the messenger."

[Guest Guest]

8 months and 9 pages tells me you are one sick puppy. Your anger and hostility should tell you that you need help. God will help you if you ask. Good luck.

Yet you keep posting, arrogant as always and angry as hell. In those 8 months, neither you nor any other Christian apologist has said anything about the topic.

Think about that. You take the time to post, but only about your anger that this topic exists, and won't go away. You don't have a single word to say in defense of the ridiculous Christian narrative.

Think about the religion you claim to believe in. The story makes no sense. If there was or is a God, he wouldn't need a grand melodrama to forgive. And if he was going to do something that depended on people believing in it, he would make sure everyone knew about it.

Notice something else. That's not even an argument for atheism. It's just pointing out that your story makes no sense.

You won't respond to that because you know it's the truth.

You know it's a myth.

[Guest Guest]

According to the God babblers who keep posting here, there is a God who sent his only divine Son to die on a cross so that those who believed in him may be saved from eternal torment. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but shall have eternal life." (John 3:16)

The story is obviously a ridiculous fairy tale. I'm not saying it to be mean. I'm saying it because the God babblers keep forcing their religion on us, and - along with many others - I'm sick of it. They want to talk about their religion, and push it on everyone. OK, then let's talk about it. If it wasn't for their incessant pushing, I wouldn't do this.

In the first place, Christians can't even get their story straight. Is it a lake of fire and eternal torment, or merely death and annihilation? Assuming the former, God would be a sociopath and a psychopath, making the story a horrid fairy tale. Assuming the latter, the story is merely a fairy tale.

Second, assume the story to be true. According to the story, God offered himself as a sacrifice, out of love, for each and every person on earth. The offer, per John 3:16, was extended to the whole world, and salvation is granted to everyone "who believes in him." You can't believe in someone you've never heard of. If the story was true, every person who ever lived, since Jesus died, would have known about the story, thereby having the chance to believe. Yet when white Europeans encountered native peoples all over the world, in remote areas, from the late medieval period into the 20th century, they had never heard the story. They had no chance to believe. But according to the fairy tale, their salvation was conditioned on belief. Surely God would have the power to send an angel to tell everyone about the most important thing he ever did, the thing that would offer them salvation. Yet somehow, most of the world never heard the story. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the story is a cultural artifact, born of a particular time and place. It is not universal. It isn't true. It never happened. If it had happened, everyone who ever lived since Jesus died would have heard about it. God would have made sure of that - if that God existed.

I cannot prove whether there is or is not a God. But the use of a little reason proves beyond any doubt that this version of God is a fairy tale.

You wanted to discuss your religion, God babblers. You want an officially sanctioned Christmas tree, not just a holiday tree. In only seven months, you can start whining about that again. Again, I'm not saying this, in this forum, for any other reason except that you keep shoving your religion down our throats. Here's your chance to show everyone why the things written here are not true. You wanted to discuss your religion. Go ahead.

There's another reason why this story makes absolutely no sense, and could not be true. If you accept the Bible as true, thousands of years passed from when man fell from grace and brought sin into the world, and when Jesus came to save us.

What about all the people who lived and died during those thousands of years, and never accepted Jesus because he hadn't been born yet? There are only three choices:

(1) All those people are burning in hell, or will when judgment day comes because they never accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior. After all, that's what you have to do to be saved, right, because you have a sinful nature, and only by accepting Christ can you be saved.

(2) At least some of those people are or will be in heaven, even though they never accepted Christ. If that's true, then you don't have to accept Christ to be saved. And if that's true, then the whole Jesus thing was never necessary in the first place.

(3) (And you know it's true.) The story is a myth. It never happened.

[Guest Guest]

There's another reason why this story makes absolutely no sense, and could not be true. If you accept the Bible as true, thousands of years passed from when man fell from grace and brought sin into the world, and when Jesus came to save us.

What about all the people who lived and died during those thousands of years, and never accepted Jesus because he hadn't been born yet? There are only three choices:

(1) All those people are burning in hell, or will when judgment day comes because they never accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior. After all, that's what you have to do to be saved, right, because you have a sinful nature, and only by accepting Christ can you be saved.

(2) At least some of those people are or will be in heaven, even though they never accepted Christ. If that's true, then you don't have to accept Christ to be saved. And if that's true, then the whole Jesus thing was never necessary in the first place.

(3) (And you know it's true.) The story is a myth. It never happened.

Why worry about the truth when you have a story?

[Guest Guest]

Looks like the time has finally come to end the fantasy. The latest scholarship shows that Jesus probably never existed at all. The stories about him probably are stories about several people, or in some cases just legends.

[Guest Guest]

Looks like the time has finally come to end the fantasy. The latest scholarship shows that Jesus probably never existed at all. The stories about him probably are stories about several people, or in some cases just legends.

There may be something to this. When I look at what people are discussing on the Internet, I see a willingness to confront these questions that wasn't present just a few years ago. In the case of the Christ narrative, scholarship is light years ahead of where it has ever been before. Much of the new openness may be due to social media sites like Facebook, and other Internet sites, where people who do not accept the culturally prescribed versions of religion can see clearly that we are not alone. This medium has already changed the world, and appears to be changing it further.

[Guest Guest]

Another new year has arrived.

You still know it's a myth.

[Guest Guest]

I just love the way people gripe about how "you know it's a myth" is repetitive and irritating, when the content of the story has never - not once - been addressed by any of the several people who have posted here and claim to believe that the story is true. It's obvious that they're just blocking any consideration of the very thing they claim to believe. In other words, they believe it but refuse to think about it. That's some religion.

I keep saying it because it's true, and it's important that people face the truth:

You know it's a myth.

[Guest Guest]

In the first place, Christians can't even get their story straight. Is it a lake of fire and eternal torment, or merely death and annihilation? Assuming the former, God would be a sociopath and a psychopath, making the story a horrid fairy tale. Assuming the latter, the story is merely a fairy tale.

Second, assume the story to be true. According to the story, God offered himself as a sacrifice, out of love, for each and every person on earth. The offer, per John 3:16, was extended to the whole world, and salvation is granted to everyone "who believes in him." You can't believe in someone you've never heard of. If the story was true, every person who ever lived, since Jesus died, would have known about the story, thereby having the chance to believe. Yet when white Europeans encountered native peoples all over the world, in remote areas, from the late medieval period into the 20th century, they had never heard the story. They had no chance to believe. But according to the fairy tale, their salvation was conditioned on belief. Surely God would have the power to send an angel to tell everyone about the most important thing he ever did, the thing that would offer them salvation. Yet somehow, most of the world never heard the story. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the story is a cultural artifact, born of a particular time and place. It is not universal. It isn't true. It never happened. If it had happened, everyone who ever lived since Jesus died would have heard about it. God would have made sure of that - if that God existed.

I cannot prove whether there is or is not a God. But the use of a little reason proves beyond any doubt that this version of God is a fairy tale.

Where are the answers?

[Guest Kearny Christian]

Where are the answers?

You need to take a pill. I know you're still recovering from the Christmas season. Seeing all the religious icons, hearing all the Christmas music, all the parties and Christmas dinners, they must have a terrible effect on your pathetic mind. Remember, God loves you, even though you're a sad misguided urchin.

[Guest Kearny Christian]

Looks like the time has finally come to end the fantasy. The latest scholarship shows that Jesus probably never existed at all. The stories about him probably are stories about several people, or in some cases just legends.

Read Bill O'Reilly's book "Killing Jesus" and be enlightened.

[Guest Guest]

Kearny Christian, you just made two posts and didn't say anything.

In the first place, Christians can't even get their story straight. Is it a lake of fire and eternal torment, or merely death and annihilation? Assuming the former, God would be a sociopath and a psychopath, making the story a horrid fairy tale. Assuming the latter, the story is merely a fairy tale.

Second, assume the story to be true. According to the story, God offered himself as a sacrifice, out of love, for each and every person on earth. The offer, per John 3:16, was extended to the whole world, and salvation is granted to everyone "who believes in him." You can't believe in someone you've never heard of. If the story was true, every person who ever lived, since Jesus died, would have known about the story, thereby having the chance to believe. Yet when white Europeans encountered native peoples all over the world, in remote areas, from the late medieval period into the 20th century, they had never heard the story. They had no chance to believe. But according to the fairy tale, their salvation was conditioned on belief. Surely God would have the power to send an angel to tell everyone about the most important thing he ever did, the thing that would offer them salvation. Yet somehow, most of the world never heard the story. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the story is a cultural artifact, born of a particular time and place. It is not universal. It isn't true. It never happened. If it had happened, everyone who ever lived since Jesus died would have heard about it. God would have made sure of that - if that God existed.

I cannot prove whether there is or is not a God. But the use of a little reason proves beyond any doubt that this version of God is a fairy tale.

Where are the answers?

[Guest Guest]

Read Bill O'Reilly's book "Killing Jesus" and be enlightened.

You must be very proud of yourself to have read an entire book. And it was published only 15 months ago!

Which book are you planning to read this year? Do you think you can finish the whole thing?

By the way, if you had understood what O'Reilly was writing (though he is no mental giant himself) you would realize that he is not arguing that Jesus was not divine, or that Christianity is not a religion. His "book," if you call it that, is about Jesus as an historical figure. He claims to leave the religious questions aside. And even in that, you can't draw any conclusions about whether Jesus ever lived. O'Reilly did no substantial research to write this "book," relying instead mainly on biblical accounts. Though he claims that he and his co(ghost)-author relied on research, O'Reilly's "book" contains no bibliography. It contains a brief list of "sources," mainly books, which O'Reilly may or may not have read. Of course, those books are not independent research and do not qualify as scholarly sources, which is what O'Reilly tries to make you think he is writing. And one of his "sources" is a debate that involved William Lane Craig, which cannot be considered research either. So you can read his "book" but plainly you have no idea how to read it critically or intelligently.

[Guest Guest]

In the first place, Christians can't even get their story straight. Is it a lake of fire and eternal torment, or merely death and annihilation? Assuming the former, God would be a sociopath and a psychopath, making the story a horrid fairy tale. Assuming the latter, the story is merely a fairy tale.

Second, assume the story to be true. According to the story, God offered himself as a sacrifice, out of love, for each and every person on earth. The offer, per John 3:16, was extended to the whole world, and salvation is granted to everyone "who believes in him." You can't believe in someone you've never heard of. If the story was true, every person who ever lived, since Jesus died, would have known about the story, thereby having the chance to believe. Yet when white Europeans encountered native peoples all over the world, in remote areas, from the late medieval period into the 20th century, they had never heard the story. They had no chance to believe. But according to the fairy tale, their salvation was conditioned on belief. Surely God would have the power to send an angel to tell everyone about the most important thing he ever did, the thing that would offer them salvation. Yet somehow, most of the world never heard the story. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the story is a cultural artifact, born of a particular time and place. It is not universal. It isn't true. It never happened. If it had happened, everyone who ever lived since Jesus died would have heard about it. God would have made sure of that - if that God existed.

I cannot prove whether there is or is not a God. But the use of a little reason proves beyond any doubt that this version of God is a fairy tale.

Instead of telling fairy tales about atheists, try answering some of the questions about your fairy-tale religion. You won't because you can't.

You know it's a myth.

[Guest Kearny educator]

In the first place, Christians can't even get their story straight. Is it a lake of fire and eternal torment, or merely death and annihilation? Assuming the former, God would be a sociopath and a psychopath, making the story a horrid fairy tale. Assuming the latter, the story is merely a fairy tale.

Second, assume the story to be true. According to the story, God offered himself as a sacrifice, out of love, for each and every person on earth. The offer, per John 3:16, was extended to the whole world, and salvation is granted to everyone "who believes in him." You can't believe in someone you've never heard of. If the story was true, every person who ever lived, since Jesus died, would have known about the story, thereby having the chance to believe. Yet when white Europeans encountered native peoples all over the world, in remote areas, from the late medieval period into the 20th century, they had never heard the story. They had no chance to believe. But according to the fairy tale, their salvation was conditioned on belief. Surely God would have the power to send an angel to tell everyone about the most important thing he ever did, the thing that would offer them salvation. Yet somehow, most of the world never heard the story. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the story is a cultural artifact, born of a particular time and place. It is not universal. It isn't true. It never happened. If it had happened, everyone who ever lived since Jesus died would have heard about it. God would have made sure of that - if that God existed.

I cannot prove whether there is or is not a God. But the use of a little reason proves beyond any doubt that this version of God is a fairy tale.

Instead of telling fairy tales about atheists, try answering some of the questions about your fairy-tale religion. You won't because you can't.

You know it's a myth.

I think the real myth is the idea of a godless universe.

[Guest Kearny Christian]

You must be very proud of yourself to have read an entire book. And it was published only 15 months ago!

Which book are you planning to read this year? Do you think you can finish the whole thing?

By the way, if you had understood what O'Reilly was writing (though he is no mental giant himself) you would realize that he is not arguing that Jesus was not divine, or that Christianity is not a religion. His "book," if you call it that, is about Jesus as an historical figure. He claims to leave the religious questions aside. And even in that, you can't draw any conclusions about whether Jesus ever lived. O'Reilly did no substantial research to write this "book," relying instead mainly on biblical accounts. Though he claims that he and his co(ghost)-author relied on research, O'Reilly's "book" contains no bibliography. It contains a brief list of "sources," mainly books, which O'Reilly may or may not have read. Of course, those books are not independent research and do not qualify as scholarly sources, which is what O'Reilly tries to make you think he is writing. And one of his "sources" is What's wrong with a debate that involved William Lane Craig, which cannot be considered research either. So you can read his "book" but plainly you have no idea how to read it critically or intelligently.

Bill O'Reilly and Martin Dugard published a book, "Killing Jesus". It immediately shoots to #1 on the New York Times best seller list where it still remains for over a year. It is widely acclaimed around the world for it's in-depth research by Dugard. By any measure, it's the best book ever published on the life of Jesus. But now, true to form, we have a loony left atheist comes on KOTW and with all his anger and hostility trashes the book. What is it with these people?

[Guest Guest]

I think the real myth is the idea of a godless universe.

You still don't get it, even though the point has been made repeatedly. The question is not whether there is or isn't a god. The question is whether there is any evidence of a god. The honest answer to that question is no. We can learn a lot from science, without any mention or thought of a god. In all of history, the idea of God has not contributed a single thing to our knowledge of reality. And there isn't a speck of evidence to support it.

If you want to address the other question, whether there is or isn't a god, you still have no answer - and have not even tried to answer - the question: where did God come from?

And none of this addresses the points of the topic. Even if there is or was a god, the Christian narrative makes absolutely no sense. It's simply not true. It never happened. Re-read the OP and address it head-on, instead of ignoring it and changing the subject.

If you're going to keep repeating the same mindless comments, the least you can do is try to advance the argument when your point gets squashed flat.

[Guest Guest]

Bill O'Reilly and Martin Dugard published a book, "Killing Jesus". It immediately shoots to #1 on the New York Times best seller list where it still remains for over a year. It is widely acclaimed around the world for it's in-depth research by Dugard. By any measure, it's the best book ever published on the life of Jesus. But now, true to form, we have a loony left atheist comes on KOTW and with all his anger and hostility trashes the book. What is it with these people?

Plenty of bad books are popular. This review highlights O'Reilly's penchant for making stuff up. This one points out that he got his history wrong. So does this one. This one points out that the book is all about O'Reilly's opinions, not about history. So does this one. Where are these glowing reviews that you claim were written? Just because you're gullible enough to buy whatever O'Reilly tells you doesn't mean the rest of us are. Maybe you should give some thought to what his "kool-aide" reference means.

More important, if you think the book offered something useful, spell it out, and we'll discuss it.

[Guest Guest]

In the first place, Christians can't even get their story straight. Is it a lake of fire and eternal torment, or merely death and annihilation? Assuming the former, God would be a sociopath and a psychopath, making the story a horrid fairy tale. Assuming the latter, the story is merely a fairy tale.

Second, assume the story to be true. According to the story, God offered himself as a sacrifice, out of love, for each and every person on earth. The offer, per John 3:16, was extended to the whole world, and salvation is granted to everyone "who believes in him." You can't believe in someone you've never heard of. If the story was true, every person who ever lived, since Jesus died, would have known about the story, thereby having the chance to believe. Yet when white Europeans encountered native peoples all over the world, in remote areas, from the late medieval period into the 20th century, they had never heard the story. They had no chance to believe. But according to the fairy tale, their salvation was conditioned on belief. Surely God would have the power to send an angel to tell everyone about the most important thing he ever did, the thing that would offer them salvation. Yet somehow, most of the world never heard the story. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the story is a cultural artifact, born of a particular time and place. It is not universal. It isn't true. It never happened. If it had happened, everyone who ever lived since Jesus died would have heard about it. God would have made sure of that - if that God existed.

I cannot prove whether there is or is not a God. But the use of a little reason proves beyond any doubt that this version of God is a fairy tale.

Instead of telling fairy tales about atheists, try answering some of the questions about your fairy-tale religion. You won't because you can't.

You know it's a myth.

Well? Where are the answers?

You know it's a myth.

[Guest Guest]

Bill O'Reilly and Martin Dugard published a book, "Killing Jesus". It immediately shoots to #1 on the New York Times best seller list where it still remains for over a year. It is widely acclaimed around the world for it's in-depth research by Dugard. By any measure, it's the best book ever published on the life of Jesus. But now, true to form, we have a loony left atheist comes on KOTW and with all his anger and hostility trashes the book. What is it with these people?

I read enough of O'Reilly's book to know that it is not credible, historical or scholarly. O'Reilly is not a historian. The book contains no bibliography, and his "sources" are not historically reliable. He is a very clever businessman who makes tons of money selling books that tell people like you what they want to hear. And it helps him immensely that you don't have the brains to realize that you're being grifted.

I would be very interested to see this worldwide acclaim that he supposedly received. That ain't how I hear'd it. Maybe for once you could provide some facts to support your claims?

[Guest Guest]

I think the real myth is the idea of a godless universe.

So you think that there was a super-conscious being before there was any matter, or any energy, or anything else at all. Why should that be true? On what basis could that even be possible?

Your biases are showing. You wish to believe in a god, so you do.

[Guest Guest]

According to the God babblers who keep posting here, there is a God who sent his only divine Son to die on a cross so that those who believed in him may be saved from eternal torment. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but shall have eternal life." (John 3:16)

The story is obviously a ridiculous fairy tale. I'm not saying it to be mean. I'm saying it because the God babblers keep forcing their religion on us, and - along with many others - I'm sick of it. They want to talk about their religion, and push it on everyone. OK, then let's talk about it. If it wasn't for their incessant pushing, I wouldn't do this.

In the first place, Christians can't even get their story straight. Is it a lake of fire and eternal torment, or merely death and annihilation? Assuming the former, God would be a sociopath and a psychopath, making the story a horrid fairy tale. Assuming the latter, the story is merely a fairy tale.

Second, assume the story to be true. According to the story, God offered himself as a sacrifice, out of love, for each and every person on earth. The offer, per John 3:16, was extended to the whole world, and salvation is granted to everyone "who believes in him." You can't believe in someone you've never heard of. If the story was true, every person who ever lived, since Jesus died, would have known about the story, thereby having the chance to believe. Yet when white Europeans encountered native peoples all over the world, in remote areas, from the late medieval period into the 20th century, they had never heard the story. They had no chance to believe. But according to the fairy tale, their salvation was conditioned on belief. Surely God would have the power to send an angel to tell everyone about the most important thing he ever did, the thing that would offer them salvation. Yet somehow, most of the world never heard the story. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the story is a cultural artifact, born of a particular time and place. It is not universal. It isn't true. It never happened. If it had happened, everyone who ever lived since Jesus died would have heard about it. God would have made sure of that - if that God existed.

I cannot prove whether there is or is not a God. But the use of a little reason proves beyond any doubt that this version of God is a fairy tale.

You wanted to discuss your religion, God babblers. You want an officially sanctioned Christmas tree, not just a holiday tree. In only seven months, you can start whining about that again. Again, I'm not saying this, in this forum, for any other reason except that you keep shoving your religion down our throats. Here's your chance to show everyone why the things written here are not true. You wanted to discuss your religion. Go ahead.

Still no answers.

[Guest Guest]

According to the God babblers who keep posting here, there is a God who sent his only divine Son to die on a cross so that those who believed in him may be saved from eternal torment. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but shall have eternal life." (John 3:16)

The story is obviously a ridiculous fairy tale. I'm not saying it to be mean. I'm saying it because the God babblers keep forcing their religion on us, and - along with many others - I'm sick of it. They want to talk about their religion, and push it on everyone. OK, then let's talk about it. If it wasn't for their incessant pushing, I wouldn't do this.

In the first place, Christians can't even get their story straight. Is it a lake of fire and eternal torment, or merely death and annihilation? Assuming the former, God would be a sociopath and a psychopath, making the story a horrid fairy tale. Assuming the latter, the story is merely a fairy tale.

Second, assume the story to be true. According to the story, God offered himself as a sacrifice, out of love, for each and every person on earth. The offer, per John 3:16, was extended to the whole world, and salvation is granted to everyone "who believes in him." You can't believe in someone you've never heard of. If the story was true, every person who ever lived, since Jesus died, would have known about the story, thereby having the chance to believe. Yet when white Europeans encountered native peoples all over the world, in remote areas, from the late medieval period into the 20th century, they had never heard the story. They had no chance to believe. But according to the fairy tale, their salvation was conditioned on belief. Surely God would have the power to send an angel to tell everyone about the most important thing he ever did, the thing that would offer them salvation. Yet somehow, most of the world never heard the story. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the story is a cultural artifact, born of a particular time and place. It is not universal. It isn't true. It never happened. If it had happened, everyone who ever lived since Jesus died would have heard about it. God would have made sure of that - if that God existed.

I cannot prove whether there is or is not a God. But the use of a little reason proves beyond any doubt that this version of God is a fairy tale.

You wanted to discuss your religion, God babblers. You want an officially sanctioned Christmas tree, not just a holiday tree. In only seven months, you can start whining about that again. Again, I'm not saying this, in this forum, for any other reason except that you keep shoving your religion down our throats. Here's your chance to show everyone why the things written here are not true. You wanted to discuss your religion. Go ahead.

The fact that no Christian, or defender of the Christian religion, will take this on, tells you more about what people really believe, and know, than any discussion ever could.

You know it's a myth. We all know it's a myth. It's just that some of us admit it.

[Guest Guest]

The story still doesn't make sense.