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The story doesn't make sense.


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"No, by and large, they don't" ?? What an idiot. No one could possibly know what any atheist's final thoughts are. With the kind of logic you're displaying here, it's no wonder you're an atheist.

Then why say there are no atheists in foxholes?

And it's true, you are ignoring the topic. If you look at this as a battle between two sides, the Christian side is not in a position to criticize anyone else's logic.

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"No, by and large, they don't" ?? What an idiot. No one could possibly know what any atheist's final thoughts are.

Unless, of course, a hypocritical Christian wants to sing himself to sleep with another fairy tale about how atheists all turn to "God" when they are about to die.

So, how does the story make any sense? Why would there be a hell to be saved from in the first place?

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"No, by and large, they don't" ?? What an idiot. No one could possibly know what any atheist's final thoughts are. With the kind of logic you're displaying here, it's no wonder you're an atheist.

For months, virtually no one came onto this page to speak up for Christianity. Finally, after this topic had been open for about six months, one or more people started pushing back. Only they didn't do it by defending Christianity. They did it by attacking atheists, even though this topic isn't about atheism.

When the pieces don't fit, people need an explanation. It's basic human psychology. But you can't justify yourself by attacking others.

Take an honest look at yourself, and if you want to comment on this topic, then do that - on point.

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In the first place, Christians can't even get their story straight. Is it a lake of fire and eternal torment, or merely death and annihilation? Assuming the former, God would be a sociopath and a psychopath, making the story a horrid fairy tale. Assuming the latter, the story is merely a fairy tale.



Second, assume the story to be true. According to the story, God offered himself as a sacrifice, out of love, for each and every person on earth. The offer, per John 3:16, was extended to the whole world, and salvation is granted to everyone "who believes in him." You can't believe in someone you've never heard of. If the story was true, every person who ever lived, since Jesus died, would have known about the story, thereby having the chance to believe. Yet when white Europeans encountered native peoples all over the world, in remote areas, from the late medieval period into the 20th century, they had never heard the story. They had no chance to believe. But according to the fairy tale, their salvation was conditioned on belief. Surely God would have the power to send an angel to tell everyone about the most important thing he ever did, the thing that would offer them salvation. Yet somehow, most of the world never heard the story. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the story is a cultural artifact, born of a particular time and place. It is not universal. It isn't true. It never happened. If it had happened, everyone who ever lived since Jesus died would have heard about it. God would have made sure of that - if that God existed.



I cannot prove whether there is or is not a God. But the use of a little reason proves beyond any doubt that this version of God is a fairy tale.



After seven months, how about an answer. The reason there hasn't been one is simple, and obvious.



You know it's a myth.


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You really do need some help, you're OCD. We all get it, you're an atheist, we got it. Now go hug a tree or something.

This is nothing compared to what some Christians load onto the rest of us day in and day out, year after year. The difference is that we are making a reasoned argument. You have nothing to say about it, OK, you're only proving the point. Attack atheists instead of discussing your theology, as you have been invited to do, and you only prove the point more clearly.

So whether you like it or not, I'm going to keep asking you to look at your own religion.

You want it in the public square, well here it is on a public forum. Take advantage of the fact to point out what's wrong with the OP.

You want to spread the word. So spread it.

Yet somehow, the minute someone is honest about your theology, you don't want to discuss it any more. That's some religion.

If you kept it to yourselves, it wouldn't be an issue. But you don't. So now you get a taste of your own medicine, and it has to hurt all the more that you don't have a single thing to say in answer to the obvious, gaping holes in your theology.

And it has nothing to do with being an atheist, or not. Your story doesn't make sense. Anyone who gives honest consideration to the OP knows that. Which is why I keep saying, whether you like it or not . . .

You know it's a myth.

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You really do need some help, you're OCD. We all get it, you're an atheist, we got it. Now go hug a tree or something.

This seems to be bothering you. At least he's making a point.

Why do you believe the Christian narrative, when its flaws are so deep and so obvious?

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You must have been raised in a disfunctional home where there was constant fighting and hating. That's the only explanation for your misplaced anger. My condolences to anyone unfortunate to have to live with you.

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Do the so-called Christians who are posting here have anything at all to say, except to attack people they don't even know?

That's some religion.

Seems similar to the philosophies of the folks who claim to be Atheists as well.....

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Seems similar to the philosophies of the folks who claim to be Atheists as well.....

That may be true of some atheists, but that has nothing to do with this discussion. No one in this discussion has claimed to be an atheist. That name has been thrown around, like an accusation, by people who do not seem to like the fact that a solid critique has been made of an indefensible religious narrative.

Saying that doesn't make me an atheist. It only means that I am being honest about a story that does not make any sense.

And isn't it remarkable that two more posts have been offered from people who have nothing to say, except to attack atheists. That won't make your story true.

The topic of this discussion is a very specific, well-reasoned critique of the Christian narrative. Start with the basics. Why would there be a hell to be saved from in the first place? Even if you could answer that question intelligently - which you cannot do - there are layers of other problems with the Christian narrative. Your story really doesn't make any sense.

You know it's a myth, which is why you will do ANYTHING not to discuss it. Prove me wrong with your next post.

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You must have been raised in a disfunctional home where there was constant fighting and hating. That's the only explanation for your misplaced anger. My condolences to anyone unfortunate to have to live with you.

Anything except discuss your fairy-tale religion, because . . .

You know it's a myth.

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You must have been raised in a disfunctional home where there was constant fighting and hating. That's the only explanation for your misplaced anger. My condolences to anyone unfortunate to have to live with you.

(AND)

(09:21 p.m.) Seems similar to the philosophies of the folks who claim to be Atheists as well.....

That's right, repeat the meme - the neat little story you tell yourself to convince yourself that it's true. "If someone criticizes Christianity, he must be an atheist, he must be angry, and it must have something to do with a dysfunctional childhood." Even if none of that is true.

Just keep saying it. Then you're safe; then you don't have to think about what your religion is really saying because any criticism is explained away by all these other things.

Whether they are true or not.

Whether they have anything to do with the Christian narrative or not.

What you're doing is a defense mechanism, so you don't have to think about the criticisms being leveled at your religious beliefs.

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It seems to me that atheists are very angry people, not just on KOTW but generally. They're always being offended by something.

They need to come to terms with the fact that we're a Christian nation and atheism is an extreme minority view. Complaining or filing lawsuits over a picture of Jesus Christ, a cross or whatever in a school somewhere only raises public opinion against them.

I've always wondered about children of atheists. Do they get to enjoy a Christmas tree, are they told the true meaning of Christmas ?

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That may be true of some atheists, but that has nothing to do with this discussion. No one in this discussion has claimed to be an atheist. That name has been thrown around, like an accusation, by people who do not seem to like the fact that a solid critique has been made of an indefensible religious narrative.

Saying that doesn't make me an atheist. It only means that I am being honest about a story that does not make any sense.

And isn't it remarkable that two more posts have been offered from people who have nothing to say, except to attack atheists. That won't make your story true.

The topic of this discussion is a very specific, well-reasoned critique of the Christian narrative. Start with the basics. Why would there be a hell to be saved from in the first place? Even if you could answer that question intelligently - which you cannot do - there are layers of other problems with the Christian narrative. Your story really doesn't make any sense.

You know it's a myth, which is why you will do ANYTHING not to discuss it. Prove me wrong with your next post.

See, therein lies your Problem..you ASSume that anyone who disagrees with you is a Christian. I'm Not, I am An Atheist...the difference between you and I is that that I don't assume i;m superior to Christians because of what they believe. Just like the number of Christians who believe the whole "6000 year" this is a very small Minority, the number of us who feel the need to constantly belittle and attack Christians is a very small Minority. To me, it doesnt make a difference if someone belives in the Christian God, Islamic Allah (Actually one and the same if you study comparative Theology), Buddha, Shinto, Asatru, Druidism, or even Jedi (Recognized as a religion in Britain). I Don't CARE what someone else believes, nor am I arrogant enough to think i'm superior to someone else because of that. A friend of mine lost his child a few years ago, if he takes comfort in believing that he'll see her once he dies and goes to heaven, then good for him, he has every right to believe what he wants, just as I have the right to not do so....what I, You or anyone else doesnt have the right to do is ridicule or belittle someone because they do have faith....it doesnt make you smart, or Edgy...... it just makes you a Jerkoff. The Truly funny thing is that the vocal Athiestic Douchebags like the ones who continually post here ONLY Ever attack Christians...because it's Safe.

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You must have been raised in a disfunctional home where there was constant fighting and hating. That's the only explanation for your misplaced anger. My condolences to anyone unfortunate to have to live with you.

Ya know . . .

You might try this once or twice. Most people back down or go away. Only that's not happening here. Meanwhile, every time you do this, you only make it all the more obvious that you have nothing to say about your own religion. You're getting your butt kicked. And you keep begging for it.

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(responding to post 142):

The opening post makes it very clear that this issue is being raised here because some of the Christians in town keep trying to force their religion on everyone. Every year, Kearny Christian complains that the town doesn't single out Christianity as sort of an official town religion. For many years, the only display at Town Hall was a Christian nativity scene, until someone complained and the town started following the law. I know because I am the one who complained about it. If I had not complained, the town would still be breaking the law, and probably no one would speak out, for fear of facing attitudes like the one you just expressed. It's much easier to be quiet and not rock the boat, but that doesn't make it right.

Some Christians are not happy about the town following the law. They want Christianity put back into what they think is "its proper place," by which they mean above all the other religious points of view. Problem is, that would disrespect everyone else. On another topic, I just replied to someone who apparently has no idea at all that other holidays are celebrated in December. To that person, everyone else's holidays don't even exist, let alone matter. And whether they are celebrated in December or not, there are other holidays, both secular and religious. You don't get to make your holiday special just because you're in the majority. We already compromise on that point because when enough people celebrate a holiday, it affects whether and how business can be conducted on those days. But at the same time, we need to be make every effort to treat every religious view equally.

You say you are an atheist. Maybe you are, maybe you're not.

Either way, your post is #142, and still, after more than seven months, no one addresses the points made in the OP. It's kind of odd (don't you think) that Christians want everyone to treat Christmas reverently, yet when some pretty obvious problems are pointed out, we are all duty-bound to overlook them. I don't think so. We all have the right to our opinion. That includes the right to criticize ideas, even religious ideas. The very idea that we are supposed to keep quiet about all of that is part of the problem. But then that's just my opinion. I hope I didn't offend you by expressing it.

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See, therein lies your Problem..you ASSume that anyone who disagrees with you is a Christian. I'm Not, I am An Atheist...the difference between you and I is that that I don't assume i;m superior to Christians because of what they believe. Just like the number of Christians who believe the whole "6000 year" this is a very small Minority, the number of us who feel the need to constantly belittle and attack Christians is a very small Minority. To me, it doesnt make a difference if someone belives in the Christian God, Islamic Allah (Actually one and the same if you study comparative Theology), Buddha, Shinto, Asatru, Druidism, or even Jedi (Recognized as a religion in Britain). I Don't CARE what someone else believes, nor am I arrogant enough to think i'm superior to someone else because of that. A friend of mine lost his child a few years ago, if he takes comfort in believing that he'll see her once he dies and goes to heaven, then good for him, he has every right to believe what he wants, just as I have the right to not do so....what I, You or anyone else doesnt have the right to do is ridicule or belittle someone because they do have faith....it doesnt make you smart, or Edgy...... it just makes you a Jerkoff. The Truly funny thing is that the vocal Athiestic Douchebags like the ones who continually post here ONLY Ever attack Christians...because it's Safe.

So you are an atheist. And I am Pope Francis.

It troubles me greatly that people choose to attack people they believe are atheists, instead of defending Christ. Christ taught us to respond to unkindness with love, and to forgive 70 times 70 times. This means as many times as are necessary.

If people attack Christ, do not attack them. Stand up for him. Just tell the truth. Show Christ's love through your example. And if people blaspheme, simply explain God's truth to them.

When Peter denied Christ three times, he wept once he realized what he had done.

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See, therein lies your Problem..you ASSume that anyone who disagrees with you is a Christian. I'm Not, I am An Atheist...the difference between you and I is that that I don't assume i;m superior to Christians because of what they believe. Just like the number of Christians who believe the whole "6000 year" this is a very small Minority, the number of us who feel the need to constantly belittle and attack Christians is a very small Minority. To me, it doesnt make a difference if someone belives in the Christian God, Islamic Allah (Actually one and the same if you study comparative Theology), Buddha, Shinto, Asatru, Druidism, or even Jedi (Recognized as a religion in Britain). I Don't CARE what someone else believes, nor am I arrogant enough to think i'm superior to someone else because of that. A friend of mine lost his child a few years ago, if he takes comfort in believing that he'll see her once he dies and goes to heaven, then good for him, he has every right to believe what he wants, just as I have the right to not do so....what I, You or anyone else doesnt have the right to do is ridicule or belittle someone because they do have faith....it doesnt make you smart, or Edgy...... it just makes you a Jerkoff. The Truly funny thing is that the vocal Athiestic Douchebags like the ones who continually post here ONLY Ever attack Christians...because it's Safe.

I've written several of the posts on this topic, including the one you criticize. One of the differences between us is that I haven't called names, of anyone. My point is that the OP is correct: the Christian narrative does not make sense. That goes to the merits.

Yes, I criticized the thinking of the people who have posted here in disagreement with the OP. But that's criticism of their thinking, as expressed through their writing. It's hardly fair to accuse me of reacting whenever someone disagrees with me, when they're absolutely refuse to say anything.

We disagree when you say these belief systems do not matter. Belief systems shape cultures and entire civilizations. I don't go after sweet Aunt Millie, who goes to church every Sunday and minds her own business. But it's not just a few Christians who don't leave it alone. In one way or another, it's the majority. Christians proudly tell us that the entire country has a Christian foundation. They can't have it both ways. The Christian religion has tremendous cultural influence, and that makes it fair game.

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See, therein lies your Problem..you ASSume that anyone who disagrees with you is a Christian. I'm Not, I am An Atheist...the difference between you and I is that that I don't assume i;m superior to Christians because of what they believe. Just like the number of Christians who believe the whole "6000 year" this is a very small Minority, the number of us who feel the need to constantly belittle and attack Christians is a very small Minority. To me, it doesnt make a difference if someone belives in the Christian God, Islamic Allah (Actually one and the same if you study comparative Theology), Buddha, Shinto, Asatru, Druidism, or even Jedi (Recognized as a religion in Britain). I Don't CARE what someone else believes, nor am I arrogant enough to think i'm superior to someone else because of that. A friend of mine lost his child a few years ago, if he takes comfort in believing that he'll see her once he dies and goes to heaven, then good for him, he has every right to believe what he wants, just as I have the right to not do so....what I, You or anyone else doesnt have the right to do is ridicule or belittle someone because they do have faith....it doesnt make you smart, or Edgy...... it just makes you a Jerkoff. The Truly funny thing is that the vocal Athiestic Douchebags like the ones who continually post here ONLY Ever attack Christians...because it's Safe.

I am an atheist. People criticize and mock my beliefs regularly. Look at some of the comments on this topic.

You say people don't have the right to ridicule each other. You should tell that to some of the people here who think atheists need psychological help.

Seems like you're saying that I should see it like you do, and not care what other people believe. I never agreed to play by those rules.

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When someone gets too close to the truth, people who don't want to hear it will do ANYTHING to avoid it. The closer you get to breaking through their wall of ignorance, the more they'll resist.

But in the end, the so-called Christians here will remember one thing.

You know it's a myth.

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See, therein lies your Problem..you ASSume that anyone who disagrees with you is a Christian. I'm Not, I am An Atheist...the difference between you and I is that that I don't assume i;m superior to Christians because of what they believe. Just like the number of Christians who believe the whole "6000 year" this is a very small Minority, the number of us who feel the need to constantly belittle and attack Christians is a very small Minority. To me, it doesnt make a difference if someone belives in the Christian God, Islamic Allah (Actually one and the same if you study comparative Theology), Buddha, Shinto, Asatru, Druidism, or even Jedi (Recognized as a religion in Britain). I Don't CARE what someone else believes, nor am I arrogant enough to think i'm superior to someone else because of that. A friend of mine lost his child a few years ago, if he takes comfort in believing that he'll see her once he dies and goes to heaven, then good for him, he has every right to believe what he wants, just as I have the right to not do so....what I, You or anyone else doesnt have the right to do is ridicule or belittle someone because they do have faith....it doesnt make you smart, or Edgy...... it just makes you a Jerkoff. The Truly funny thing is that the vocal Athiestic Douchebags like the ones who continually post here ONLY Ever attack Christians...because it's Safe.

No one here assumed that anyone who disagrees is a Christian.

No one here assumed that she/he was superior to Christians.

The main thrust of this thread has been the critique of a story, not a belittling or an attack on Christians, or anyone else.

There's nothing arrogant about asking people to say why they think something is true.

No one here has questioned anyone's right.

And the only person who has called anyone a jerkoff or a douchebag is you.

Anyone can post here and claim to be anyone, or anything. You are making stuff up, as theists quite often do. So I doubt that you are an atheist, and if you are, it may be for the wrong reasons.

There's one other thing no one here has done. NO ONE has said a single word about how that ridiculous story about Jesus could possibly be true. So we come back to the main point.

You know it's a myth, and you'll do ANYTHING to avoid facing that fact.

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So if "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him shall have eternal life," then how can you explain the fact that most of the world never heard the story for many centuries after this offer of salvation supposedly was given?

Call us any name you like. Only when you're done doing that, look at yourself. And be honest.

You know it's a myth. That's why you refuse to discuss it.

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