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Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo
You can't REALLY believe that the federal government is interested in Keith from Marshall, Mo. mail or what church you go to.  Good grief, man....  go smoke another joint.

Thanks, I would love to go smoke another joint! Unfortunately the current hysteria in our society about marijuana makes it hard for me to obtain it. That's another argument. Whether the Govt. opens my mail or whether a public school teacher is known to preach in school is a matter of principle. In order to open an individuals mail, one would like to think thay had a reason for suspicion. If they have a good reason for suspicion then they would have no trouble obtaining a warrant to do so, unlike a tapped phone call, I'm assuming they could hold your mail while they waited for a warrant. If you are so naive as to think that all of the powers being granted, warrantless phone calls, mail reading etc. wouldn't be used for political gain or worse political revenge then I pity you. Remember that the next time you go vote. Does your vote really count? Or is this election already in the bag? It is our duty as Americans to question the govt. @ every corner. I don't want to turn over every aspect of my life to the govt. regardless of the circumstances. You reap what you sow, if you think it will end here without a public outcry then you or woefully naive. Left unchecked it will only be a matter of time before our govt. will be as bad as those they are claiming to protect us from. It might not be as dramatic, but I feel it will be equally as invasive. Just because we are Americans does not mean that we, or more importanly our leaders are any less human. Mistakes will be made which is why we have these laws in place. Strip those laws away and what do you have? You have a ruling entity that has no fear of legal reprisal. And, to put the icing on the cake, since they can listen to phone calls and open mail with no need for a warrant, then no one will know whose communications they are comprimising. Thus, is makes it alot easier to develope you political strategy for the next "election" cycle. This in turn would make it easier for those who abuse power to stay in power. I'm not talking about republicans vs. democrats either. Neither will hesitate to use this new found power. You want that? Fine, but I'll be damned if I do. In my opinon a true American and patriot would be enraged about this. You wanna be lazy and let the Govt. make all of your decsions? While I may seem a bit melodramatic to some, this is where it starts. This is the slippery slope. What kind of power do you think the feds will have in 20 years if not kept in check? You know the Nazi party was elected too. No, I am not comparing our govt. to the Nazi's however I am drawing a parallel about folks who are either too lazy or scared to call a ruling party on thier improprieties. Blind Faith was a creat band but it's no way to live your life.

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I'm former military and a veteran. When I was in uniform, I "walked the walk". Empty suits like yourself sit back and criticise the president, criticise your boss, your teachers, your world, you "talk the talk".  Continue to hide under your bed, the Patriots of the U.S. will protect your sorry ass.

Iraq was no threat to us when we invaded. What exactly is Bush protecting us from? But yeah, NOW Iraq really hates us--can you blame them? Good job, Bush, that's just what we need--more enemies.

Bush can't find Osama Bin Laden in over five years--instead of tracking him down, he sent us to war with a country who had nothing to do with 9/11, all in the name of finding weapons of mass destruction Iraq didn't even have. The guy behind 9/11 is still at large because Bush stopped caring about finding him. Bush can't find one 6'4" (!) guy in five years (and hell, he basically just plain gave up after a while), and we're supposed to think he's anything but an incompetent fool? Sorry--there is a reason his approval ratings went lower than Nixon's.

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Guest Patriot
You mean patriots like Matt LaClair, who's doing exactly that right now?

Hey, you may be onto something. Do you thing secretly taping the terrorists would be a deterrent ?? I'll think about that and get back to you.

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Guest Patriot
tell you what, moron.  since you are all for government opening mail and eavesdropping on phone calls, try this:

call a friend and use the words "president" "bomb" "Allah" "Airport" during the conversation, and watch what happens.

When the FBI (or most likely CIA) operatives come to talk to you, you can whine about civil liberties.

LMAO !!! That's the funniest thing I've ever read on KOTW. If you're seriously that paranoid, you need professional help.

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Guest Patriot
You MAY be former military but you're currently a wimpering piece of jelly.  You walked the walk?  I think you pushed the paper while sitting on your REMF butt.  It's obvious you have no concept of American values.

If you want to talk about hiding why not talk about the president hiding in Alabama?

Screw you and your self righteous BS.  If the lack of results or benefit to the US from the last 4 years of Bush's fiasco aren't obvious to even an idiot like you then pick up your white cane and stumble back in your hidey-hole.

You can type pretty good under your bed. I guess your mom brings your meals in on a tray. BTW..... I'm happy with Bush over the last 6 years, he cut my taxes, the stock market is way up, unimployment is way down, inflation is under control and he is protecting america. God bless George Bush.

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Guest Patriot
When you were in uniform you "walked the walked"?  What happened to you?  Tou obviously learned nothing from your experiences.  Wht are you so content to see basic American rights usurped for no good reason?

Must be your lack of logical thinking.  After all, you believe that atheists hat an entity whose existence they don't believe in, pretty neat trick.  I guess it's kind of like you believing in the leadership that Bush doesn't have.

Ever heard of "Hooked on Phonics" ??

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Guest Guest
I'm constantly appaled by all the "veterans" who apparently think that fighting and dying in a foreign country to safeguard his fellow citizens freedom amounts to banning the burning of the American flag, allowing fanatics to preach in a class room, and call criticizers "un-American."

I have a description for these people: Assholes. Hypocritical assholes.

Careful, with that attitude you'll soon be hearing the ld "Ameica, love it or leave it" just as soon as some pot bellied reactionary can get to a keyboard.

Just consider PatRat another victim of the terrorists. He's so scared now he's willing to just give up all his freedom for alleged security and in the end will have neither.

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Some stupid statements just say more about the lack of understanding of anything different then what is thought to be basic education in the U.S.A.

Thankfully there are parents that actually think it is important for their children to learn how to think, in this country. IT something I learn long ago, most of our education system has focus on creating good little worker bees and not worry about the thinking and logic, needed to keep our Freedoms, from becoming just history parroted for how makes us look to the masses.

I need sleep, before I start looking like I didn't have parents who cared enough to make sure I learn more then I was taught in school. The typo's are beginning to make sense to me.

Do you realize that you write on about the 6th grade level ?? Until you can develop your own writing skills, you should not criticise any school system but your own.

Did you see my postmy post were I said something about being dyslexic and having a language processing disorder?

If it wasn't for the fact that I was able to follow along mass each Sunday, with my mom's missal, I have a feeling I wouldn't have learn how to read until an adult. Instead I was reading above grade level by the age of 6.

No one actually knew I could even read back then, but by the time I was in 6th grade, I was reading in top 100 percent on national; tests. Now, when a child's test scores show as much as an 4 grade difference, they get help. No one even knew what language processing disorder was back until the mid 90's when researchers looked at were able to look at FMRI's for learning disabilities.

I also might suggest you try improving your reading skills before the next time you post.

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Iraq was no threat to us when we invaded.

Beginning of the translation of page 6 from document BIAP 2003-000654

In the Name of God the Merciful The Compassionate

Top Secret

The Command of Ali Bin Abi Taleb Air Force Base

No 3/6/104

Date 11 March 2001

To all the Units

Subject: Volunteer for Suicide Mission

The top secret letter 2205 of the Military Branch of Al Qadisya on 4/3/2001 announced by the top secret letter 246 from the Command of the military sector of Zi Kar on 8/3/2001 announced to us by the top secret letter 154 from the Command of Ali Military Division on 10/3/2001 we ask to provide that Division with the names of those who desire to volunteer for Suicide Mission to liberate Palestine and to strike American Interests and according what is shown below to please review and inform us.

Air Brigadier General

Abdel Magid Hammod Ali

Commander of Ali Bin Abi Taleb Air Force Base

Air Colonel

Mohamad Majid Mahdi.

End of translation of page 6

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1...sts?page=301,50

I regret that the original is no longer available for public viewing. The website was closed down after Iraq's plans for a nuclear weapon were inadvertently published to the Web.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/world/mi...0&ex=1320210000

What exactly is Bush protecting us from? But yeah, NOW Iraq really hates us--can you blame them? Good job, Bush, that's just what we need--more enemies.

Iraq doesn't hate the US. It's sectarian violence in Iraq, primarily. The Kurds are pretty solidly behind the US. The Shiites were gung-ho for the US until they realized we wouldn't support a Shiite-dominated state--protections needed to be in place for the Sunnis and the Kurds. The Sunnis definitely don't like us because they had it pretty good under Saddam Hussein. Some of them are beginning to realize that the US is their best bet for not getting a raw deal from the Shiite majority, though.

Bush can't find Osama Bin Laden in over five years--instead of tracking him down, he sent us to war with a country who had nothing to do with 9/11, all in the name of finding weapons of mass destruction Iraq didn't even have. The guy behind 9/11 is still at large because Bush stopped caring about finding him.

That's simply untrue, though bin Laden has been effectively neutralized since he stays so busy hiding out. Seen any terrorist attacks with bin Laden's fingerprints on them, lately? His biggest accomplishment is staying alive over the past five years.

Bush can't find one 6'4" (!)

Bin Laden is about 6 feet tall, according to Lawrence Wright.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19433

But, if you want to believe the CIA ...

<_<

guy in five years (and hell, he basically just plain gave up after a while),

Why shouldn't Pakistan look for bin Laden if bin Laden seems to be in Pakistan?

and we're supposed to think he's anything but an incompetent fool?

So ... you would have found bin Laden if you'd been president?

Sorry--there is a reason his approval ratings went lower than Nixon's.

Something tells me you don't have the southern border security issue in mind. That issue accounts for a considerable amount of conservative discontent with Bush.

Can we trust Strife to always come through with superficial analysis?

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Guest bewildered

It only serves to remind me why exactly I don't bother with this shit: http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...506entry41506

Atheism is my way of saying "leave me out of it." It's pointless to speculate anyway.

You are showing exactly the kind of person you are in these posts.

You are very bitter, angry and frustrated individual.

You just say the things you do to defend the filthy life style you probably live and want to continue to live without felling guilty about.

By the way you can not put all Christians in the same category. Not every Christian goes around killing people. Idiot!

If you want to defend people that have abortions that is something you have to live with. But just remember those babies are alive inside of that woman. Did you ever touch a pregnant woman belly? Try sometimes. Feel that baby move inside and tell me he's not alive. Contrary to what you might believe or was thought by your kind.

So go ahead and come back with your nesty, ignorant and filthy language remarks. So you can continue to prove to the people that read your posts that you are just a very angry, frustrated person. You are the perfect example it.

This has to be the Mother of All Ad Hominems. Someone must have missed his nap this afternoon.

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Guest Guest
LMAO  !!!  That's the funniest thing I've ever read on KOTW.  If you're seriously that paranoid, you need professional help.

paranoid? Give it a try and see what happens.

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Guest Guest
I'm happy with Bush over the last 6 years, he cut my taxes, the stock market is way up, unimployment is way down, inflation is under control and he is protecting america. God bless George Bush.

That explains a lot about what a SAP you are.

There are good solid arguments starting with voodoo economics about all the things you think make him OK but it's not worth my time, it's all YOUR delusional self-interest and nothing good for the long-term of the country.

Just as an example unemployment figures can be manipulated anyway one likes, they do not include those whose benefits have run out. With Ford Motors cutting half its work force and GM a third along with the back-lash to all the support industries I think you're full of crap. Where is unemployment REALLY down? China? Punjab? Afyrt all, the cowboy thinks outsoucing jobs is a good thing. HIS job should be outsourced.

And you will pay for trying to bla,e God for the mess we're in.

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Guest Guest
You can type pretty good under your bed. I guess your mom brings your meals in on a tray. BTW..... 

One thing I know for SURE, I can type better under my bed than YOU can make a good, reasoned argument ANYWHERE on earth.

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Guest Patriot

All yuu Kool-Aiders better just lie down and do as you're told. This is a crisis and you must do what President Bush says, he is the President, he knows what is right. Personal freedoms must take seciond place to protecting us from evil. President Bush will protect us, his record is good, after all, there were NO air strikes on Alalbama while he so bravely defended its skies.

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Guest Guest
You can type pretty good under your bed. I guess your mom brings your meals in on a tray. BTW..... I'm happy with Bush over the last 6 years, he cut my taxes, the stock market is way up, unimployment is way down, inflation is under control and he is protecting america. God bless George Bush.

Yeah, Bush is directly responsible for thousands of deaths and spending hundred$ of billion$ of $ to make the US LESS safe and YOU are happy because he cut your taxes.

What a greedy, self-serving unpatriotic piece of crap you are.

I wonder if your grandchildren will look so kindly on Bush when they're still paying for his folly?

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It only serves to remind me why exactly I don't bother with this shit: http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...5533;entry41506

Atheism is my way of saying "leave me out of it." It's pointless to speculate anyway.

You are showing exactly the kind of person you are in these posts.

You are very bitter, angry and frustrated individual.

That's actually not far off the mark at all. It angers and frustrates me a lot to see all the things happening as a direct result of religious fundamentalism.

You just say the things you do to defend the filthy life style you probably live

Oh, have you already started up with the baseless accusations? Just what exactly are you referring to? I'm curious as to how much you have already demonized me in your own mind.

and want to continue to live without felling guilty about.

I have no reason to feel guilty about the way I live. I live a pretty decent life, if I say so myself.

By the way you can not put all Christians in the same category. Not every Christian goes around killing people. Idiot!

I know that. But as mentioned before, the moderate ones, the decent people who are pretty much manipulated by the extremists, are the enablers. While not directly responsible, they have an ability to lessen or prevent some of the damage extremists do by speaking out against them, but _very_ few of them do (it is heartening to see the few that have on this site, though). Most just sit around indifferently, and that is nearly as bad as encouraging them.

If you want to defend people that have abortions that is something you have to live with.

...what? What a non-sequitur.

But just remember those babies are alive inside of that woman. Did you ever touch a pregnant woman belly? Try sometimes. Feel that baby move inside and tell me he's not alive. Contrary to what you might believe or was thought by your kind.

Okay, for the record, the vast majority of abortions are performed before the two-month mark, which is before the embryo even has a neural pathway, let alone the ability to 'kick' (which most 'month by month' guides online talk about happening for the first time around month 5-6--please, I defy you to look up the numbers to see what percentage of abortions are done that late, and what percentage of _those_ are done for a reason other than something having gone wrong and the woman's health being at risk). But if you want to whine about how terrible abortion is, start a new topic--I'll be glad to expose your romantic delusions about blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses there.

So go ahead and come back with your nesty, ignorant and filthy language remarks.

I dare say you have me beaten when it comes to ignorance. And I can't find "nesty" in any online dictionary. Also, there's no such thing as filthy language. They're just words, get over yourself.

So you can continue to prove to the people that read your posts that you are just a very angry, frustrated person. You are the perfect example it.

The sad thing is that you don't realize just how justified my feelings are. Would you be able to, from reading my posts, explain why I am angry? I would be very interested in seeing just how inaccurate your reading comprehension is.

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inflation is under control

Are you kidding me? The US dollar is on the brink of freefall! Once the Chinese lose their patience with/confidence in us and switch from dollars to Euros, I'll be very curious to see if you're still yammering uninformed nonsense like this.

Not that I'd expect someone like you to know anything about economics, but still!

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Ever heard of "Hooked on Phonics" ??

Says the guy who puts a space between the end of the sentence and the ending punctuation, and for some reason doubles up on the question marks. Also, a bit more advanced (as if it's not already way outside your apparent grasp), when a quote ends a sentence, the punctuation should be inside it, not outside.

So, "Patriot," have you ever heard of "Hooked on Phonics?"

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Beginning of the translation of page 6 from document  BIAP 2003-000654

In the Name of God the Merciful The Compassionate

Top Secret

The Command of Ali Bin Abi Taleb Air Force Base

No 3/6/104

Date 11 March 2001

To all the Units

Subject: Volunteer for Suicide Mission

The top secret letter 2205 of the Military Branch of Al Qadisya on 4/3/2001 announced by the top secret letter 246 from the Command of the military sector of Zi Kar on 8/3/2001 announced to us by the top secret letter 154 from the Command of Ali Military Division on 10/3/2001 we ask to provide that Division with the names of those who desire to volunteer for Suicide Mission to liberate Palestine and to strike American Interests and according what is shown below to please review and inform us.

Air Brigadier General

Abdel Magid Hammod Ali

Commander of Ali Bin Abi Taleb Air Force Base

Air Colonel

Mohamad Majid Mahdi.

End of translation of page 6

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1...sts?page=301,50

I regret that the original is no longer available for public viewing.

It's pointless to cite when the original linked document doesn't exist. Free Republic doesn't exactly have the best reputation on its own, you know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Republic...versial_aspects

The website was closed down after Iraq's plans for a nuclear weapon were inadvertently published to the Web.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/world/mi...0&ex=1320210000

Iraq doesn't hate the US.  It's sectarian violence in Iraq, primarily.  The Kurds are pretty solidly behind the US.  The Shiites were gung-ho for the US until they realized we wouldn't support a Shiite-dominated state--protections needed to be in place for the Sunnis and the Kurds.  The Sunnis definitely don't like us because they had it pretty good under Saddam Hussein.  Some of them are beginning to realize that the US is their best bet for not getting a raw deal from the Shiite majority, though.

That's simply untrue, though bin Laden has been effectively neutralized since he stays so busy hiding out.  Seen any terrorist attacks with bin Laden's fingerprints on them, lately?  His biggest accomplishment is staying alive over the past five years.

Yes, because major terrorist attacks are so easy to concoct. I mean before 9/11 they were happening like every day. Right? How much time passed between 9/11 and bin Laden's previous attack on US soil? Was it more or less than five years?

Bin Laden is about 6 feet tall, according to Lawrence Wright.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19433

But, if you want to believe the CIA ...

:)

Oh yes, the government has such a motive for lying about a known terrorist's height. We can't let the people know how tall Osama REALLY is, or else there would be panic in the streets!

Come on, now.

Why shouldn't Pakistan look for bin Laden if bin Laden seems to be in Pakistan?

Maybe they don't care. How should I know? But whether or not country X is looking for him should not affect whether we are looking for him. He attacked us, remember?

So ... you would have found bin Laden if you'd been president?

I'd still be looking for him, at least...I sure as hell wouldn't have tossed all these troops at Iraq to find WMDs that don't exist.

Something tells me you don't have the southern border security issue in mind.  That issue accounts for a considerable amount of conservative discontent with Bush.

What about the north border? The Canadian border is the one 9/11's hijackers crossed, and yet no one's talking about that.

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All yuu Kool-Aiders better just lie down and do as you're told.

Because that's what patriotism is to an idiot.

This is a crisis and you must do what President Bush says, he is the President, he knows what is right.

Just like he knew there were WMDs in Iraq, right?

Personal freedoms must take seciond place to protecting us from evil.

Aha, so it does come out--you're well-aware that he is violating personal freedoms, you just don't care.

President Bush will protect us, his record is good, after all, there were NO air strikes on Alalbama while he so bravely defended its skies.

The bear patrol is doing a great job--I haven't ever seen a bear in my house!

Also, where is this "Alalbama" you speak of? Is it somewhere near Misussipy?

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Guest Lazarus
All yuu Kool-Aiders better just lie down and do as you're told.  This is a crisis and you must do what President Bush says, he is the President, he knows what is right.  Personal freedoms must take seciond place to protecting us from evil.  President Bush will protect us, his record is good, after all, there were NO air strikes on Alalbama while he so bravely defended its skies.

HAHA! Nice, excellent joke. You're a funny one, having us going like that. Good job.

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That explains a lot about what a SAP you are.

Always start with the name-calling. It really strengthens your argument.

There are good solid arguments starting with voodoo economics about all the things you think make him OK but it's not worth my time, it's all YOUR delusional self-interest and nothing good for the long-term of the country.

Hmmm. Second step is also name-calling (delusion, self-interest).

Just as an example unemployment figures can be manipulated anyway one likes, they do not include those whose benefits have run out.

Because unemployment insurance records, which many people think are the source of total unemployment data, relate only to persons who have applied for such benefits, and since it is impractical to actually count every unemployed person each month, the Government conducts a monthly sample survey called the Current Population Survey (CPS) to measure the extent of unemployment in the country. The CPS has been conducted in the United States every month since 1940 when it began as a Work Projects Administration project. It has been expanded and modified several times since then. As explained later, the CPS estimates, beginning in 1994, reflect the results of a major redesign of the survey.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_faq.htm#Ques1

In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

With Ford Motors cutting half its work force and GM a third along with the back-lash to all the support industries I think you're full of crap.  Where is unemployment REALLY down?  China?  Punjab?  Afyrt all, the cowboy thinks outsoucing jobs is a good thing.  HIS job should be outsourced.

If the U.S. didn't outsource jobs, you'd be paying about 3-4x more for the items you buy such as shoes and computers.

So, you don't know how the U.S. figures its labor statistics and you don't know the benefits of counting labor as a trade commodity--but you're calling the other guy names. Sweet.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/7749/#9

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It's pointless to cite when the original linked document doesn't exist.

Huh? What do you mean it doesn't exist? Just because the government took the Website down because of the nuclear weapon goof-up doesn't mean that the document doesn't exist. I've looked at the original (in Arabic) and, iirc, another translation that matched that of j veritas.

http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murd...00604100727.asp

You could look at the NYT account I linked for some corroboration, you know.

Free Republic doesn't exactly have the best reputation on its own, you know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Republic...versial_aspects

Are you trying to be funny, offering a Wikepedia (the encycopedia anyone can edit!) entry to discredit TFR? It's a misguided effort in any case. The entry contains a complaint about some posters to TFR's Web site (the one who translated the document, you hope?), and an account of a lawsuit for allowing copyrighted material to be posted.

Feel free to suggest how any of that is relevant.

Seemingly it's just your way of justifying willful blindness to the evidence.

Yes, because major terrorist attacks are so easy to concoct. I mean before 9/11 they were happening like every day. Right? How much time passed between 9/11 and bin Laden's previous attack on US soil? Was it more or less than five years?

Heh.

Who said anything about American soil? Oh, that would be you. Because you need to try to narrow it down like in your desperation to make bin Laden out to be something of a threat.

Bin Laden is so busy running that he can barely participate in a news release on an annual basis. But I guess you could come back and say that he's not filming them on American soil. That would sure show me.

Face it: bin Laden is neutralized. That might change if Pakistan grants him some form of sanctuary. Otherwise al Qaida planning will be done primarily by leaders somewhat down the chain of command.

Oh yes, the government has such a motive for lying about a known terrorist's height. We can't let the people know how tall Osama REALLY is, or else there would be panic in the streets!

And there you go jumping to conclusions.

Who said anything about lying? Oh--that would be you again. I simply suggest that the CIA (FBI, according to the encyclopedia anyone can edit) could be wrong, as they apparently were (along with the intelligence services of each of our allies) about Hussein's stockpiles of WMD.

Unless you think that Clinton appointed Tenet so that he could lie on the CIA's behalf to the Bush administration--or something similarly creative and outlandish?

Maybe they don't care. How should I know?

You could read?

But whether or not country X is looking for him should not affect whether we are looking for him. He attacked us, remember?

Okay, so if he hides in China we should send people to China to find him--regardless of how the Chinese react?

You'll make a fine foreign policy guru one day.

I'd still be looking for him, at least...I sure as hell wouldn't have tossed all these troops at Iraq to find WMDs that don't exist.

I see. You're so intelligent that you would have known that the CIA, British Intelligence, French Intelligence, Italian Intelligence, Russian Intelligence, etc. were wrong?

Wow. Maybe I've been underestimating you.

What about the north border? The Canadian border is the one 9/11's hijackers crossed, and yet no one's talking about that.

Sure they are. It just happens that we don't have millions of illegals crossing that border every year like we have on the southern border. The southern border is both a security risk and a weakness to US claims of sovereignty. The combination magnifies its importance as a political issue (particularly in states that end up as home for illegal immigrants, including Texas and California).

The northern border was not a factor in Republican political losses; nor did it figure prominently in the policies of Democrats who were elected, so far as I know.

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If the U.S. didn't outsource jobs, you'd be paying about 3-4x more for the items you buy such as shoes and computers.

The same arugument could be made that if we didn't have illegal immigrants we'd be paying a lot more for things like agricultural produces, etc, so by your theory illegal immigration must be a good thing too?

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