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The quality of education

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You may want to consider rewording that, as it sounds very much like a threat, and a threat by an adult against a minor at that. If it was not meant as a threat (and I suspect it wasn't), then you very much need to make that clear.

yes you make a very good point and its NOT A THREAT BUT A "WARNING " IN GENERAL! :wub: PART OF MY POST THAT WOULD MADE MY POINT CLEAR WAS REMOVED/EDITED BY KTOW! THE NAME O'HARE AS IN THE VERY PUBLIC STORY OF M O'HARE AND HER LAW SUIT IN THE 60S! ALSO HE IS IN HUDSON COUNTY! AS YOU MAY KNOW THERE IS SOME VERY SCARY GUYS THAT "RUN" THAT COUNTY!! IF YOUR FROM KEARNY YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I MEAN!!! :excl:

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So will you join me? Register as a member, then pass me an e-mail. KOTW forwards them. Then let's work together.

I am a parent living in Phoeniz, Az and I just want to thank you for standing up to this type of behavior. That it has been going on for so long makes me wonder how prevalent it actually is across the country.

In my experience if one allows these types of beliefs to go unapposed it only emboldens them to continue as if this is acceptable and that their ideas represent the mainstream. In a local school board meeting when someone starts in on issues like allowing prayer or creationism in school, or other issues relating to weakening our constitutional rights, one must do the right thing and voice opposition with a concise knowledge of what the constitution says, even knowing that you are going to look like the bad guy because you opposed spreading the good word and Jesus.

If people don't put their foot down, proselytizing of this nature will only become more common. These people believe it is their right to use government entities to proselytize their beliefs. The ends justifies any means possible and their ends is a theocratic government and a compliant, ignorant population that submits to their authority.

So more power to you, and don't let up. My guess is that there are more christians out there that are on your side and are silent because of peer pressure, or not wanting to look like a poor christian.

What exactly is it that you want from the school? If it were me, I'd want a public acknowledgement from the teacher that he overstepped his bounds, and an admission to the class that he did not have the expertise as an educator to make comments on the constitution or evolution. An apology to the non believers that he told would go to hell would also seem appropriate. I would think that the school board would also be required to write up guidelines for this issue and require them to be posted in each classroom, along with a copy of the bill of rights right along side.

Good Luck,

Dave Thompson

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The New York Times quotes me today as saying that we will consider litigation in the proselytizing teacher matter unless Kearny High's students are properly educated regarding Paszkiewicz's anti-scientific mis-statements and the Constitutional separation between church and state. I am opening this topic to explain to the community why we believe this is important.

I hope we all agree in principle that the schools, both public and private, exist to educate our young people. That means teaching them science and enough law so they can function positively as citizens in a democracy. When a teacher mis-states and distorts science and law to such an extent as David Paszkiewicz did (and I suspect has done for quite some time), corrections are mandatory if the school system is to fulfill its educational purposes.

This is especially true when the teacher is popular, as appears to be the case here. The worst possible scenario educationally is that a popular teacher convinces young people that his twisted views of science and the law are true. That also appears to have happened here, judging from student reaction and from the absence of any correction in the past. All the rationalizations aside, the real reason Paszkiewicz is being defended is that some people think his ignorance and his bigotry are acceptable.

I am personally disgusted as a taxpayer, a parent and a citizen that the adminisration in the Kearny school district seems not to care. It is unacceptable that these remarks go uncorrected, especially when so many members of the community and even a fellow teacher (anonymously quoted in The New York Times on December 18) see absolutely nothing wrong with what Paszkiewicz has been doing. This is intellectual poison, I can give it no less strong a term. The only thing worse than no information is misinformation, and this was misinformation.

It is not acceptable that our schools in Kearny are training our young people to be "ignorant and scientifically illiterate," as Dr. Tyson, the astrophysicist who heads the Hayden Planetarium, put it in a letter to The New York Times. That is why Kearny is in the Times again today, and remains in the news. While I truly am reluctant to use the word "stupid," it does come to mind.

Must we really fight with the school board and the administration to ensure that the students receive an education in science, instead of the 2006 equivalent of flat-earth science? Must we have a legal team straighten out the mess Paszkiewicz has made of the students' understanding of the Constitution? This is insanity.

I understand that some people think the issue is resolved, and don't like our continuing to press it. There is a very simple solution, and I address this to the board, the administration and the teacher: admit your mistakes, make appropriate corrections, and let's move on. We've been asking for that for nearly three months now, and obviously these parties have no intention of doing that.

OK, so we'll do this the hard way. We would never have imagined that we would have to fight a bitter battle with this school system to force it to do its job, but apparently that is what will be necessary. I invite concerned citizens to speak up, or to contact us to try to resolve this in an appropriate way, so that the world can say the citizens of Kearny spoke up and demanded a proper resolution.

Paul, I agree with and support you 100%.

You're a true patriot.

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:wub: PAUL I NEVER SAY THIS TO ANYBODY ON THIS SITE "BUT FOR YOU I WILL {YOU ARE SCUM AND KEARNY WILL BE SORRY FOR THE DAY YOUR WERE BORN} I HOPE THE NJ BAR SEES THIS FOR WHAT IT REALY IS AND DISBARRS YOU! ALSO YOUR SON WILL PAY THE PRICE FOR YOUR SCAM! HISTORY PROVES ME RIGHT ON THIS JUST ASK THE ****** KIDS!!! ALSO YOU FORGET YOUR IN KEARNY YOU BETTER THINK HARD ABOUT IT IM TALKING ABOUT THE TOWNS HISTORY WITH TROUBLE MAKERS LIKE YOU!!! :excl:

KOTW Note: The above post was edited for content.

What a christofascist. Why don't you move to Iran?

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Guest Dave Thompson

I'd like the people who support the teacher to consider something.

Do you believe that a parent has the right to determine the religious education and devotional time of their children?

If teachers are allowed to proselytize in class to a captive audience of school kids, you are taking away the parents rights regarding religious instruction and giving them to the state. In effect, you are allowing state sponsored church that school children are forced into attendance.

Now, I'm sure for some that it's perfectly fine if my kids are made to hear your beliefs and given the impression that their government, country, and authorities support your brand of christianity. After all, a little prayer never hurt anybody, and bringing them to Christianity is a good thing, because their souls are on the line. Right?

But what if the reverse were true? What if your kids were put in the same situation, but teachers were promoting my agnostic views, and that instead of my kids being told they were going to hell, your kids were being told they were stupid and that they'd never get a good paying job because of it? Or how about if as a good evangelical parent your kids came home and told you how they prayed to Mary with their Catholic teacher? Or what if they were told about mormonism and asked to convert or never see their family in heaven?

So I hope you see how neutrality, not state sponsored support of your beliefs, is the answer. You need to respect the religious rights of the students to believe as they see fit without government intrusion, and the rights of parents to teach their kids as they may.

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Guest Paul
Paul,

If I understand you correctly you are looking for three things:

1.  Disciplinary action against Dave P.

2.  Correction of the scientific errors made by Dave P.

3.  An apology from Dave P.

For #1, the BOE has stated that they have taken action against Dave P.  However, by law, based on the union's contract, they are not allowed to publicly discuss the type of or severity of disciplinary action unless the teacher grants them permission.

Is you threat of a lawsuit because you do not believe them?  Or just to discover through the court proceding what the action was?

For #2, as previously stated, the district does provide a cirriculum teaching the science that you agree with.  Dave P. is not qualified to make the corrections that you are requesting, so other than the current science cirriculum, what more do you want?

For #3, a personnel apology from Dave P. is not within the control of the BOE.  They cannot force him to do that.  What do you want a lawsuit against the BOE to accomplish in this regard?

JW

Your assumptions are incorrect. Of the three "requests" you list, the only one we're asking for is # 2. Since Dave P. is not qualified to make those corrections, someone else should do it. Misinformation must be corrected, especially when many of the students bought it, which they did. Why isn't that an important and reasonable request, and solution?

I have stated publicly that teacher discipline is not ours to determine, for exactly the reasons you cite. DP should have apologized, but he will have to live with that failure on his own. It is a personal issue, just as you say. No one can force a sincere apology.

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Guest Red Mann

2smart and OldFart (kinda rhymes) et al. I'm sure Kearny is so proud of her sons such as you who are making Kearny, NJ and America look so astonishingly and willfully ignorant. You discredited your town, your religion and your country with your totally inane and inappropriate remarks.

2Smart:

We all need a hero, someone we can look up to. And Paul has become the hero of the left wing anti-God crowd. Wow, I'm impressed.

I guess you think you’re a hero, standing up to the “godless lefties”. Really you’re a zero.

OldFart, your stupid threats are despicable and quite possibly criminal, way to go.

Enough

Though the teacher should not, and by law, is required not to preach in the classroom the opinoions which he gave are neither wrong nor inaccurate as you state.

They are though:

Shortly after school began in September, the teacher told his sixth-period students at Kearny High School that evolution and the Big Bang were not scientific, that dinosaurs were aboard Noah's ark, and that only Christians had a place in heaven, according to audio recordings made by a student whose family is now considering a lawsuit claiming Mr. Paszkiewicz broke the church-state boundary.

"If you reject his gift of salvation, then you know where you belong," Mr. Paszkiewicz was recorded saying of Jesus. "He did everything in his power to make sure that you could go to heaven, so much so that he took your sins on his own body, suffered your pains for you, and he's saying, 'Please, accept me, believe.' If you reject that, you belong in hell."

These were statements made in a public school during class time as such, they are wrong.

A Christian

It appears to me 2smart4u is correct on this one. Paul is reveling in the attention he's getting and he doesn't want it to go away. He knows that a lawsuit will take years to resolve and he's guaranteed of constant attention during that time. Paul thought he hit the lottery when the NY Times picked up his story and he now sees himself as the standard-bearer for the atheists. Will he sue ?? Of course he'll sue, he's enjoying himself now.

Here’s a hot flash “Christian”, not everyone believes in your interpretation of your god, nor must they and, by the way, atheist are not bad or evil by definition. Most have more morals then you display.

People all over the world are following this, and it is not Paul LaClair who is making Kearny look bad, it is people like you four and the school board for its pathetic lack of creditable action.

Red Mann

Virginia Beach VA

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Guest WilliamK
What a christofascist. Why don't you move to Iran?

This "christofascist", "dullard", "fundie", etc. name calling is no better than the "loony lefties", "daffy darwiniacs", and "kool-aid drinkers" imbecility that has been radiating from a select few on the other side. The best way to deal with them is not to stoop to their level, but to stay above it.

In other words: There's no need to hang them. Just give 'em enough rope.

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Guest Guest
I'm not surprised the NY Times, being the left wing rag that it is, has found a friend in Paul. Together you can carry the torch for this "terrible injustice", forever and ever ad nauseam. I bet you're proud of yourself, you're famous. We all need a hero, someone we can look up to. And Paul has become the hero of the left wing anti-God crowd. Wow, I'm impressed.

You're impresed? Actually, you're an idiot!

This issue has NOTHING to do with right wing/left wing or God or anti-God. It is plain and simple about a teacher and his inappropriate classroom commentary.

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It appears to me 2smart4u is correct on this one.  Paul is reveling in the attention he's getting and he doesn't want it to go away. He knows that a lawsuit will take years to resolve and he's guaranteed of constant attention during that time.  Paul thought he hit the lottery when the NY Times picked up his story and he now sees himself as the standard-bearer for the atheists. Will he sue ?? Of course he'll sue, he's enjoying himself now.

And the fact that he's right is just a coincidence? The fact that the law and American principles are on his side... that's irrelevant, yes? Because he can't POSSIBLY have a valid argument, this must be just some attention-seeking ploy.

Yikes, folks. Is this how you want the nation, and the world, to see your community? I live in Cobb County, GA, and I can assure you that it's not worth it just to defend your brand of religious hypocrisy.

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Guest qetzal

Mr. LaClair,

Has there been any official statement by the school or the BOE, acknowledging that the teacher's comments were inappropriate and impermissible? (I skimmed the district's website, but could find no mention of this affair. Unfortunately, the most recent BOE meeting minutes posted were from October.)

If not, that certainly seems like something you should insist on.

Kudos to your son and you for refusing to back down.

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Guest 2smart4u
I am a parent living in Phoeniz, Az and I just want to thank you for standing up to this type of behavior. That it has been going on for so long makes me wonder how prevalent it actually is across the country.

In my experience if one allows these types of beliefs to go unapposed it only emboldens them to continue as if this is acceptable and that their ideas represent the mainstream. In a local school board meeting when someone starts in on issues like allowing prayer or creationism in school, or other issues relating to weakening our constitutional rights, one must do the right thing and voice opposition with a concise knowledge of what the constitution says, even knowing that you are going to look like the bad guy because you opposed spreading the good word and Jesus.

If people don't put their foot down, proselytizing of this nature will only become more common. These people believe it is their right to use government entities to proselytize their beliefs. The ends justifies any means possible and their ends is a theocratic government and a compliant, ignorant population that submits to their authority.

So more power to you, and don't let up. My guess is that there are more christians out there that are on your side and are silent because of peer pressure, or not wanting to look like a poor christian.

What exactly is it that you want from the school? If it were me, I'd want a public acknowledgement from the teacher that he overstepped his bounds, and an admission to the class that he did not have the expertise as an educator to make comments on the constitution or evolution. An apology to the non believers that he told would go to hell would also seem appropriate. I would think that the school board would also be required to write up guidelines for this issue and require them to be posted in each classroom, along with a copy of the bill of rights right along side.

Good Luck,

Dave Thompson

"These types of beliefs to go unopposed" ?? A little Nazi in your family background Dave ??

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:o PAUL I NEVER SAY THIS TO ANYBODY ON THIS SITE "BUT FOR YOU I WILL {YOU ARE SCUM AND KEARNY WILL BE SORRY FOR THE DAY YOUR WERE BORN} I HOPE THE NJ BAR SEES THIS FOR WHAT IT REALY IS AND DISBARRS YOU! ALSO YOUR SON WILL PAY THE PRICE FOR YOUR SCAM! HISTORY PROVES ME RIGHT ON THIS JUST ASK THE ****** KIDS!!! ALSO YOU FORGET YOUR IN KEARNY YOU BETTER THINK HARD ABOUT IT IM TALKING ABOUT THE TOWNS HISTORY WITH TROUBLE MAKERS LIKE YOU!!! :o

KOTW Note: The above post was edited for content.

Wow, you are evil. I don't think I've ever seen such unamerican, unpatriotic vitrol. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. I can't imagine what your post said before KOTW edited it. You would obviously be much more at home in one of the fascist, theocratic countries in the Middle East. They are much more your style.

Also, caps lock is cruise control for cool.

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Guest Guest
I am a parent living in Phoeniz, Az and I just want to thank you for standing up to this type of behavior. That it has been going on for so long makes me wonder how prevalent it actually is across the country.

In my experience if one allows these types of beliefs to go unapposed it only emboldens them to continue as if this is acceptable and that their ideas represent the mainstream. In a local school board meeting when someone starts in on issues like allowing prayer or creationism in school, or other issues relating to weakening our constitutional rights, one must do the right thing and voice opposition with a concise knowledge of what the constitution says, even knowing that you are going to look like the bad guy because you opposed spreading the good word and Jesus.

If people don't put their foot down, proselytizing of this nature will only become more common. These people believe it is their right to use government entities to proselytize their beliefs. The ends justifies any means possible and their ends is a theocratic government and a compliant, ignorant population that submits to their authority.

So more power to you, and don't let up. My guess is that there are more christians out there that are on your side and are silent because of peer pressure, or not wanting to look like a poor christian.

What exactly is it that you want from the school? If it were me, I'd want a public acknowledgement from the teacher that he overstepped his bounds, and an admission to the class that he did not have the expertise as an educator to make comments on the constitution or evolution. An apology to the non believers that he told would go to hell would also seem appropriate. I would think that the school board would also be required to write up guidelines for this issue and require them to be posted in each classroom, along with a copy of the bill of rights right along side.

Good Luck,

Dave Thompson

Thank you, Dave. That's why Matthew did it (and we supported him). You've expressed remedies very close to what we have requested.

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Guest Guest
This "christofascist", "dullard", "fundie", etc. name calling is no better than the "loony lefties", "daffy darwiniacs", and "kool-aid drinkers" imbecility that has been radiating from a select few on the other side. The best way to deal with them is not to stoop to their level, but to stay above it.

In other words: There's no need to hang them. Just give 'em enough rope.

Exactly right. To those who support us, please follow this sound advice.

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Guest Paul
This "christofascist", "dullard", "fundie", etc. name calling is no better than the "loony lefties", "daffy darwiniacs", and "kool-aid drinkers" imbecility that has been radiating from a select few on the other side. The best way to deal with them is not to stoop to their level, but to stay above it.

In other words: There's no need to hang them. Just give 'em enough rope.

As is probably clear enough, the "Exactly right" was mine.

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Guest Paul
Mr. LaClair,

Has there been any official statement by the school or the BOE, acknowledging that the teacher's comments were inappropriate and impermissible? (I skimmed the district's website, but could find no mention of this affair. Unfortunately, the most recent BOE meeting minutes posted were from October.)

If not, that certainly seems like something you should insist on.

Kudos to your son and you for refusing to back down.

No such statement whatsoever, only a statement by the district's attorney, which we learned about at CNN's studios during Matthew's interview with Anderson Cooper on December 18. That statement only said that religious teaching is not part of the KHS curriculum, which of course does not go anywhere near far enough. They attempted to sweep this under the rug, thinking it would go away with little fuss. Obviously they were wrong, and this time I'm not shy about saying "I told you so."

It is appalling that the administration and its attorney could think this abysmal response would be sufficient, and amazing that they would think this outrage by a public school teacher would go unnoticed. I told them in writing in October that the headline would be "You belong in hell." They didn't listen, and what is more, they were both personally and professionally disrespectful. Now the world thinks they are fools, or worse. I will say it again publicly: superintendent Mooney and attorney Lindenfelser should be fired not only for gross incompetence but also for indifference to a student and his taxpaying parents.

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Guest hypocrite
If you spent as much time reading your bible as you do reading this blog I'm inclined to think that you wouldn't make such comments. Let's pretend for a moment that your dream came true and tommorrow everyone was a Chirstian. It seems as if that's what you want, isn't it? Would that make you happy? Everyone would be just like you and there would nothing and no one to B**ch about. Are you sure you could live without that?

let he who lives in glass houses cast the first stone.

You are spending some time here yourself, Keith.

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Guest Guest
You may want to consider rewording that, as it sounds very much like a threat, and a threat by an adult against a minor at that. If it was not meant as a threat (and I suspect it wasn't), then you very much need to make that clear.

As usual people reading INTO the post, creating their own view instead of just reading it.

Old Fart I did not read this as a threat and for me to side with you is BIG because I do not agree with much of what you write.

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Guest concerned
If the students understood science and the Constitution, I wouldn't be as concerned, but obviously they don't. They don't even understand what a scientific theory is. Listen to the recordings, where that is obvious.

When the school contributes to the students' ignorance instead of educating them, my judgement is to press ahead. The harm DP did, and has been doing for years, is that he feeds popular misconceptions that interfere with a solid education. So while I give the students as much credit as I can, I can't help being concerned when I hear what I've heard on the recordings of a few days in Paszkiewicz's classroom. Most professional educators who have commented on the various blogs are absolutely horrified by Paszkiewicz's "methods" in those sessions.

Students can learn a great many things in school. It's similar in some ways to a trade. Trying cases in court, for example, is a trade of sorts. If a trial lawyer is poorly trained, it can take years to undo the damage, and sometimes it never be undone. The same is true of doctors, teachers and students. Feed them misinformation, they can carry it with them for a lifetime. Just look at some of the nonsense being spouted by Paszkiewicz's apologists. Reminds me of a barber we had in the little town where I grew up, of whom my father used to say "He gives a pretty good haircut if he doesn't run out of hair." I think Paszkiewicz has done a lot of harm, and I'm hardly alone.

I appreciate your wish that no lawsuit be instituted. That is my wish, too. We have told the administration that over and over. Implore the school board and the administration to resolve this appropriately, then maybe we can avoid a suit.

If you were concerned you would have attened the meeting in school with the Admin. and your son. It would have ended there!

You see, that would have been the end of it, but that is not what you want. Stop pretending.

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No such statement whatsoever, only a statement by the district's attorney, which we learned about at CNN's studios during Matthew's interview with Anderson Cooper on December 18. That statement only said that religious teaching is not part of the KHS curriculum, which of course does not go anywhere near far enough. They attempted to sweep this under the rug, thinking it would go away with little fuss. Obviously they were wrong, and this time I'm not shy about saying "I told you so."

It is appalling that the administration and its attorney could think this abysmal response would be sufficient, and amazing that they would think this outrage by a public school teacher would go unnoticed. I told them in writing in October that the headline would be "You belong in hell." They didn't listen, and what is more, they were both personally and professionally disrespectful. Now the world thinks they are fools, or worse. I will say it again publicly: superintendent Mooney and attorney Lindenfelser should be fired not only for gross incompetence but also for indifference to a student and his taxpaying parents.

Fire everybody, let God sort them out! Oh, not God, sorry Paul.

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Guest Patriot
No such statement whatsoever, only a statement by the district's attorney, which we learned about at CNN's studios during Matthew's interview with Anderson Cooper on December 18. That statement only said that religious teaching is not part of the KHS curriculum, which of course does not go anywhere near far enough. They attempted to sweep this under the rug, thinking it would go away with little fuss. Obviously they were wrong, and this time I'm not shy about saying "I told you so."

It is appalling that the administration and its attorney could think this abysmal response would be sufficient, and amazing that they would think this outrage by a public school teacher would go unnoticed. I told them in writing in October that the headline would be "You belong in hell." They didn't listen, and what is more, they were both personally and professionally disrespectful. Now the world thinks they are fools, or worse. I will say it again publicly: superintendent Mooney and attorney Lindenfelser should be fired not only for gross incompetence but also for indifference to a student and his taxpaying parents.

A teacher makes a few religious comments in a history class, and you want the Superintendent and board attorney fired for "gross incompetence" ?? So you want to go easy on them, huh ??

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A teacher makes a few religious comments in a history class, and you want the Superintendent and board attorney fired for "gross incompetence" ??  So you want to go easy on them, huh ??

Wow. I thought that my standard for the average American could sink no lower, but apparently I was wrong. I can't believe that I am actually responding to this comment. I guess that I thought it was so stupid that I couldn't let it go unanswered.

A few religious comments, huh? I see. And Martin Luther King Jr. made a couple of light speeches, and Einstein did that one sort of important equation thingy, and Ghandi said those things about that other thing that was only kinda worth paying attention to. Is my message getting through to you yet bud, or should I go on?

There is no "going easy on" in this situation. This is one of those rare circumstances where there is a definite right and wrong. Just like the teacher had a choice of right and wrong (and he picked the latter, in case anyone was still in doubt), the Board of Education and, more importantly, the US court system now has a choice between right and wrong. They must choose the right coarse of action if the justice system of this country is to be faithfully upheld.

Yes, the superintendent and board attorney are showing gross incompetence in this situation, not because they have not fired the teacher, but because they have not taken any action at all to help the situation. They are either blind to the obvious or being pulled by religious backing and beliefs in a direction that will only further the conflict. This man was a history teacher, and these were students going to a public school. Please, America, lift the veil from your eyes and see without barriers what this man did. Put aside your religious beliefs and social pressures. Put yourself, if at all possible, in the shoes of a bystander. Look at what this man did, at the comments that he made, and realize just how wrong it was.

There is a clear path being path being laid here from this issue to religion. Because if religion makes this right, then religion is wrong.

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