Just Wondering

[Bryan]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said here, though I do confess that I skim the very long posts because they generally turn into little but ego contests.

I do mind the content of Paszkiewicz's remarks, but that's because I think the concept of hell is a destructive one, especially when (as I think most fair-minded people would acknowledge) it's always those other people who are going to spend eternity there. I just think it's a very divisive concept, and a dangerous one to the social fabric, very similar to racism.

Orthodox Christian doctrine (not the Orthodox church, mind you) teaches that everyone since Adam (Jesus excepted, and Mary for Roman Catholics if I'm not mistaken) is hellbound regardless of works or character (race, sex, etc.). That seems rather inclusive doesn't it?

Surely there are people who identify themselves as Christians who display a self-righteous attitude, but that does not come from the doctrines, which explicitly instruct Christians to love all others including non-Christians.

Isn't it ironic that the Constitution you claim to treasure came from a majority who held such destructive beliefs?

It is entirely beyond me how anyone can reach middle adulthood (and especially parents) and still believe that a loving and omnipotent god could have eternal torment waiting for anyone.

Have you ever met middle-aged adults or parents who were perfectly just?

Sometimes I ask: Which of your children would you be willing to let that happen to?

Which of your adult children would you force to do things your way even if they resisted?

Have you read C. S. Lewis' "The Great Divorce"?

By the way, it is frequently ignored that the Bible speaks of judgment according to works regardless of the final destination.

The heaven and hell experiences, respectively, will apparently be tailored to the individual based on works (perhaps accounting for the development of Roman Catholic "Limbo" or even Purgatory.

[Guest Guest]

Huh? You are blaming Strife for putting the Christians on the defensive?? So you think Strife is responsible for the righteous Christian "Patriot" spewing the following gems:

"Allah ?? A bogus "god" followed by camel jockeys and other third-world savages."

"Oh misinformed one, you're once again wrong.  Allah, as used in third world muslim countries refers to Mohammad , the bogus god of camel jockeys and hemp smokers."

You are just so impartial.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Strife's Mom. How is Strife doing today?

[Guest Guest]

Give me a break here. First of all, every one of those comments was made in a more general context than the exact situation. Secondly, what the hell has happened to people that no one can understand an analogy without thinking there is a direct comparison being made anymore? "Combining christian with the term 'bastard'"? You know damned well that is not the point I was making (if you actually read the post), and that I never drew a parallel between the two the way you're making it sound. That's very intellectually dishonest of you. The statment _was_ that referring to religion as a "myth" (for example) and to a child of unmarried parents as a "bastard" are both factually accurate statements that can offend because of their connotations. And frankly, I'm sick and tired of everyone assuming the worst possible meaning in everything everyone says. For crying out loud, if you call someone who's overweight "fat" you're labeled as this insensitive, horrible person! I think that kind of thing is just plain bullshit, and that's all I was saying. If you get offended by a factual statement, that is not my problem--there is sensitivity, and then there is being a doormat. Friggin' semantics...tremendous waste of time for people to care about nonsense like this, seriously.

See, these are the kinds of statements that annoy me. Let me tell you something, man...it is quite possible to be respectful of someone's beliefs without talking about them in nothing less than glowing praise whenever they're mentioned. People do not have the right to not be offended, okay? There isn't even any comparison. An AP (!) history teacher starts preaching in class, and he gets all kinds of support (that still boggles my mind!), while I make one straightforward comment about what religion is by freaking definition and I'M offensive? I'M insensitive? Now THAT is offensive--to see that incredible double standard. That is ABSURDLY offensive to me.

Bullshit. Anyone who tramples on our Constitution without regard or remorse is getting none of my respect, and sure doesn't deserve it, either. Mostly because he just doesn't seem to care! No apology, no admission of guilt, not even a "I didn't mean to cause any problems" or anything like that. He doesn't give a shit. And that, to me, is even worse than the preaching stuff.

Maybe because atheists tend not to be as concerned with being perfectly PC than most. That does _not_ mean atheists are less respectful.

Are you not above comments like this?

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Glad to see that you're not the sensitive sort.

[Guest Guest]

Hi Strife's Mom.  How is Strife doing today?

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Damn it! Here's my daughter again.

Stupid kid! I told you NOT to go to the Internet. No allowance for you for a week. Go to take out the garbage RIGHT NOW!

[Guest DingoDave]

Here are some dictionary definitions of the word 'superstition'

Superstition:

- An excessive reverence for, or fear of, that which is unknown or mysterious.

- An ignorant or irrational worship of a Supreme Deity; excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites, or of points of minor importance

-Belief in the direct agency of superior powers in certain extraordinary or singular events, or in magic, omens, prognostics, or the like.

-The worship of a false god or gods; false religion; religious veneration for objects.

- a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

- excessively credulous belief in the supernatural.

- a widely held but irrational belief in supernatural influences, especially as bringing good or bad luck.

-belief which is not based on human reason or scientific knowledge, but is connected with old ideas about magic, etc:

-A set of beliefs that future events may be influenced by one's behaviour in some magical or mystical way.

Going by any of these definitions, it seems to me that all mainstream religions can quite legitimately be described as being superstitions.

If not, why not?

[God Save Us From Christians]

I've always wondered...... when an athiest touches a coin inscripted with "In God We Trust", does his fingers burn ??    When an athiest hears the pledge of alligence with the words "One Nation Under God" does his ears burn ??  When an athiest sees a bible or other christian icon does his eyes burn ?? Will an athiest eat Hot Cross buns at Easter and if he does will he get indigestion ?? Will an athiest hide from a crucifix the way vampires do ??  Just wondering.

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I've always wondered, when a Christian opens any book, do they actually learn anything?

I've always wondered, when a Christian opens their mouth, do they ever say anything intelligent?

I've always wondered, when a male Christian has sex with other males, is that considered holy?

I've always wondered, when a Christian prays to get a better job, are they happy when someone gets fired to make room for them?

I've always wondered, when a Christian accepts that God sends a hurricane to clean out the Godless, are they happy when babies are killed as well?

I've always wondered, why are the STUPID Christians controlling the debate? Where are the normal people who consider themselves Christians? Have they all been swept aside by the ignorant fundamentalist baptists?

[Strife767]

Here are some dictionary definitions of the word 'superstition'

Superstition:

- An excessive reverence for, or fear of, that which is unknown or mysterious.

- An ignorant or irrational worship of a Supreme Deity; excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites, or of points of minor importance

-Belief in the direct agency of superior powers in certain extraordinary or singular events, or in magic, omens, prognostics, or the like.

-The worship of a false god or gods; false religion; religious veneration for objects.

- a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

- excessively credulous belief in the supernatural.

- a widely held but irrational belief in supernatural influences, especially as bringing good or bad luck.

-belief which is not based on human reason or scientific knowledge, but is connected with old ideas about magic, etc:

-A set of beliefs that future events may be influenced by one's behaviour in some magical or mystical way.

Going by any of these definitions, it seems to me that all mainstream religions can quite legitimately be described as being superstitions.

If not, why not?

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*nods* Just as I stated a while back. People lose touch with what "faith" really means and get so attached to it, that to suddenly hear someone refer to it in a literal way ("superstition" or "myth" etc.) shocks them--it has become reality to them, and that reaction mirrors the initial knee-jerk reaction a schizophrenic person expresses at first attempt to bring him/her out of their delusion(s).

It is no more "insensitive" to say that than it is to say that black people are statistically more likely to commit certain crimes. See, that's not a racist thing to say--that's a fact. It would not be fair to say any individual is more likely to commit a certain crime than another individual based on that statistic, but when the actual statistical statement is uttered, it evokes the same sort of reaction, despite being 100% true. Knee-jerk reactions, labeling the one who says it as a racist in their minds (if not their mouths), and so on. In fact, I have no doubt that I will receive exactly that reaction from at least one person (even if there are no posts--some will think it) just from their reading this paragraph, regardless of the fact that I have close to zero prejudice in me (the only thing that remains is shit drilled into me by bigots (I went to a Christian school for nine years) from youth that I am still doing my best to shake off--all subconscious stuff :/ ).

[Guest Guest]

DID YOU EVER SEE GODS FACE? DID YOU EVER FEEL HIM?DID YOU HEAR HIS VOICE? WELL YOU DID!" AND SO DID I" BUT YOU REJECT HIM NOT "I" ! NOT I!!

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Dear oldfart 56,

Are you seriously trying to tell us that you have actually seen God, felt God, and heard God's voice speaking to you inside your head?

Did this happen all at once, or did these experiences happen at seperate times and in different places?

Do you realise that in writing those words, you have just admitted to being clinically insane?

You appear to have been suffering from some serious hallucinations and delusions.

Seeing things and hearing voices inside your head is not normal behaviour.

What does God look like, and feel like, and sound like?

Is he furry and fluffy, or scaly and dry?

Is his voice a baritone, or a soprano?

Is he scary looking, or does he look more like your kindly old 'Uncle Bill'?

If there are any people reading this thread who know oldfart56 personally, please contact him in the spirit of friendship, and try to convince him in the strongest possible terms to seek Psychiatric counselling.

These kinds of delusions are a real cause for concern.

Please get oldfart56 some help, before he hurts himself or other innocent people as a result of his delusions.